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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

He Did it Because He Wanted to

December 21 2016, 1:12 PM 

Donnie, like a true democrat, taking something innocent to make a statement with anything.

Tolerance, right Donnie?

Deny it til the Lord comes again, but John 1:1 states without any doubt......The Word becoming Jesus in the flesh....IS God!

He doesn't have to explain to you, me, or anyone else how He did it.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: He Did it Because He Wanted to

December 21 2016, 6:51 PM 

Well, it looks like we're back to the ole schoolyard pattern:

"Jesus is God!"
"No He ain't!"
"Yes He is!"
"No He ain't!"
"Yes He us!"
"No He ain't!"
"Is!"
"Ain't!"
"Is!"
"Ain't!"
"I've got better things to do than keep this up!"
"I won! I won! I beat you! I'm right and you're wrong! Ya ya-ya ya ya!!"
happy.gif



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: He Did it Because He Wanted to

December 21 2016, 7:39 PM 

The Scriptures win, Bill and his LU mentors are the losers.

1Tim. 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Tim. 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God,
.....and one mediator between God and men,
.....the MAN Christ Jesus;
1Tim. 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Tim. 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle,
.....(I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: He Did it Because He Wanted to

December 21 2016, 7:54 PM 

That's Ken's way of saying, "I won! I won! I beat you! I'm right and you're wrong! Ya ya-ya ya ya!!" As I said, schoolyard pattern. Merry Christmas anyway, Ken. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: He Did it Because He Wanted to

December 21 2016, 8:53 PM 

Nope, Ken has nothing to say.

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;
.....but for blasphemy;
.....and because that thou, being a MAN,
.....makest thyself God
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods,

Psa. 82:6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods [elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High. [elyown]
Psa. 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


.....unto whom the word of God came,
.....and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
.....Thou blasphemest;
.....because I said, I am the SON OF GOD
John 10:37 If I do not the works of MY Father, believe me not.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works:
.....that ye may know, and believe,
.....that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Not INSIDE OF BUT En=instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 or INSIDE and 1537 or OUTSIDE OF);

They said that Jesus was a MAN which He did not dispute. They said that He MADE HIMSELF God.
Jesus refuted them and said that He was the SON OF GOD.

Gal. 3:26 For ye are ALL the children [huios or Son] of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal. 3:27 For [enim What I mean is that] as many of you
.....as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Being sons of God does not make us the FATHER God.

We are not INSIDE of Jesus nor do we WEAR Jesus as a garment. Remember that truth was always hidden in parables (plain sight) to HIDE truth from the Wise or Sophists meaning rhetoricians, singers, musicians, actors for hire.

 
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Dave
(no login)
104.138.113.2

I AM

December 22 2016, 9:36 PM 

John 8:58
"Truly, truly, I tell you," Jesus declared, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.'"

Why did both claim to be I AM? THEY ARE BOTH GOD

Who else can make this claim? NONE

Who can claim to be CREATOR of all? God and Jesus

John 1
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


Ken, Donnie....you simply can't circumvent the Word. Not possible.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: I AM

December 23 2016, 12:00 AM 

Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Jesus did not exist before Eve???

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing:
it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him:
and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you:
but I know him, and keep his saying.


Jesus didn't exist as the SEED of Abraham before Abraham rejoiced to see the fulfillment.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

eidon 4.to see mentally, idesthai en phresin "to see in his mind's eye,

Luke 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Matt. 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: I AM

January 2 2017, 1:02 AM 

Bumped

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: I AM

January 2 2017, 1:09 AM 

Bumped

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Gender-Neutral Movement

December 21 2016, 2:26 PM 

Dave, I keep telling you that reading black text on white paper is not remotely possible for those OF the World (ecumenical) and not part of the Little Flock of lost lambs Jesus came to rescue.

People have a low view of God to decide that His sum total is what He BREATHS and what He SPEAKS.

First, we told you that the first creation was destroyed by WATER: God sent Jesus as Messiah of the SPERM of Abraham for the new creation. Beginning is Arche and can mean time but also is the ARCH or that which holds up the structure as foundation.

Nextly, we have told you for 15 years but you want to keep people blind. The WORD or LOGOS is an attribute of God and Word means wordS or what you speak. An attribute of God for we simple minded is MIND: God thinks and he BREATHES which is ARTICULATED with words which have power. Jesus said that He DID NOT originate any of the WORDS which He Spoke. In the same way God is REFLECTED as LIGHT in the face of Jesus. God said that He was neither a Man nor the Son of man. Jesus said that SPIRIT does not have flesh and bones: Jesus had flesh and bones. We cannot see unless the light of the sun is REFLECTED off something which is NOT the sun.

In the beginning is that of the New Creation reserved FOR fire for most and reserved FROM fire from those always marked by music or other hypocritic performance.

God sent His Word or DABAR through Moses and the prophets but Moses was not God but only God's instrumental means. Psalm 33 used by the instrumentalists who claim that A spirit told them to mock Jesus cannot even be grasped by those not OF truth or OF faith.

[linked image]

Those who say that Jesus as the VOCAL articulator of God's BREATH do not grasp that the Word or Logos IS the Regulative Principle which they debunk and then make a profession out of being ANTI-Logos'

[linked image]

God as WORD and SPIRIT which could be spoken and written:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.

The Apostles SPOKE that same WORD but they were not the TOTAL Almighty.

1John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God IS LIGHT, and in him is no darkness at all

JESUS SAID:

John 12:46 I am come a LIGHT into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.


We have noted that there are MANY gods in the world as whatever or whomever you give your attention to:

2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this WORLD hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious GOSPEL of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God, should SHINE unto them.


When the "progressive apostates" say god or "a" spirit told them to deliberately sow discord and rob your "temples" they are correct. The personified "spirit" is Apollon and he appears as the leader of the "muses." They boast about teaching a "christiian" World view" but the only "god" of their world, Kosmos or the ecumenical is the Devil. He is marked or identified along with his sons is this:

Jesus SPEAKS what He has seen with His Father.
The sons of the Devil DO that which they have seen with their father.
We can articulate the WORD or we can SHINE as lights but we are not gods (whatever your leader tells you)

Phil. 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons OF God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;


How are the sons OF God identified?

Phil. 2:16 Holding forth the WORD of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.


Holding forth the WORD (which IS Spirit and Life) is the "worship" concept: to pay attention to: — give (take) heed unto, hold forth, mark, stay.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my WORD, then are ye my disciples indeed;

John 8:32 And ye shall know the TRUTH, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my WORD hath no place in you.
John 8:38 I SPEAK that which I have seen with my Father: and ye DO that which ye have seen with your father.


The "progressives" stop SPEAKING that which is written and keep everyone busy all week DOING what they "inspire."

Do [poieo] or in Latin is Facio perform, accomplish, prepare, produce, bring to pass, cause, effect, create, commit, perpetrate, form, fashion “audientiam orationi, “clamores,” to make, raise, “commercium sermonis, “controversiam,” to occasion, “poëma,” to compose, id. Pis. 29, 70: “carmina,” Juv. 7, 28: “versus,” id. 7, 38: “sermonem,” Cic. Fam. 9, 8, 1; cf. “litteram,” id. Ac. 2, 2, 6: ludos, to celebrate, exhibit “per me (sc. Apollinem) concordant carmina nervis,”

If they do not "Speak that which is written for our learning" then they are not holding forth the WORD of LIFE. If they sell themselves as religious performers engaged in DOING then they are the sons of the Devil.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 22, 2016 10:49 AM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

The Doctrine-Neutral Movement of the Liberal/Progressive

December 23 2016, 12:00 AM 

Dave said earlier:
He Did it Because He Wanted to (December 21 2016, 1:12 PM)

Donnie, like a true democrat, taking something innocent to make a statement with anything.

Tolerance, right Donnie?

Deny it til the Lord comes again, but John 1:1 states without any doubt......The Word becoming Jesus in the flesh....IS God!

He doesn't have to explain to you, me, or anyone else how He did it.

___________________________________________

Dave,

1. Who did what? Is "He" God only? Is "He" Jesus only? Or should it be "they" -- BOTH [1] God the Father of Jesus AND [2] Jesus the Son of God the Father?

2. Who did "it"? Is "it" to you in reference to the "birth"? Did Mary give birth to God the Father? Or, did Mary give birth to Jesus the Son of God?

3. Donnie is a conservative. Conservative in politics. Conservative in doctrinal matters like the church of Christ and the Restoration Movement leaders until the liberals and progressives came along -- and they [the liberals and progressives] have introduced denominational doctrines (the Trinity, "musical" worship, salvation by grace or faith only) and "religious" practices like Christmas, Halloween, Easter and Lent, Valentine's Day, etc.)

4. Yes, tolerance -- so many of you have been allowed to post doctrines and teachings not found in the New Testament. But just be sure to claim them as your own or acquired from others.

5. There are some 43 New Testament (none from the O.T.) references to Jesus as "the Son of God." There are some 88 New Testament references of Jesus as "the Son of man." A serious Bible student, who should know that the Scripture does not contradict itself, should know that John 1:1 with the proper translation does not contradict 131 references to Jesus as "the Son of God," not as "God."

The only true God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are RELATED BUT NOT INTERCHANGEABLE!!!! Please read John 14-17.


6. You're correct: the 131 references and many, many other passages are self-explanatory.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Here We Go Again

December 30 2016, 12:59 PM 

Donnie, you are always asking for answers from anyone.
See if you play fair or show your true colors.

Answer this.....
1-Who are the only ONES to claim the title of "I AM?" (I realize that in the NT the claimant doesn't use the same grammar/verbiage, but still the same all the while)
2-How/Why were they both able to make this claim of being "I AM?"
3-Who is the "I AM?"
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

 
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Ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Here We Go Again

December 30 2016, 7:20 PM 

I Am simply means "I exist."

John 9 uses the same AM meaning I AM HE.
John 9:9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Heb. 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Heb. 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb. 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb. 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb. 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb. 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb. 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb. 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 30, 2016 7:27 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Re: Here We Go Again

December 31 2016, 9:21 AM 

Ken didn't even answer the questions, just went out there on his own trail again.
How about you Donnie. You game?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Here We Go Again

December 31 2016, 12:36 PM 

The answer is in the text. I AM Ken; you AM Sarge, neither is Jehovah-Elohim or Lord-God Who AM as self-existing. I AM just means I EXIST. All "god" or "lord" words existed in the beliefs of pagans. The only way to Identify the One True god is to associate Him with a person, place or action

Ex. 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Ex. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

h1961. hayah, haw-yaw; a primitive root (compare 1933); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):—beacon, x altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, x have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, x use.

h1933. haw-vaw´; havah, haw-vaw´; a primitive root (compare 183, 1961) supposed to mean properly, to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence):—be, x have.

Some of the IDENTIFIERS

Elohim (God)
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
El Elyon (The Most High God) the plural sets Jehovah ABOVE all of the pagan gods.
Adonai (Lord, Master)
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord Who Heals You)
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord Is My Banner)
El Qanna (Jealous God)
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
Jehovah Raah (The Lord Is My Shepherd)
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)

The BRANCH or SON in Zechariah is Jehovah-Saves or Savior
The FATHER of the SON is Jehovah-Righted

Acts 27:23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,

g1510. eijmi÷ eimi, i-mee´; the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic): — am, have been, x it is I, was. See also 1488, 1498, 1511, 1527, 2258, 2071, 2070, 2075, 2076, 2771, 2468, 5600.

Jesus was of the SEED of Abraham: life only comes from life

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared [determine, limit, ordain] to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:





    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 31, 2016 1:13 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Try This

December 31 2016, 11:06 PM 

Donnie,
Answer this.....
1-Who are the only ONES to claim the title of "I AM?" (I realize that in the NT the claimant doesn't use the same grammar/verbiage, but still the same all the while)
2-How/Why were they both able to make this claim of being "I AM?"
3-Who is the "I AM?"
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Try This ['I AM' vs. 'I am']

January 1 2017, 2:43 AM 

Dave,

(1) There's only ONE (not ONES): God is the only one who said it. The KJV renders Exodus 3:14 -- "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM [GOD] hath sent me [Moses] unto you."

(2) The expression "I am" [no caps], with the same Greek text, was said by:

------ Paul in Acts 26:28,29 [KJV] -- "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds." But that "I am" did not make Paul into God.

------ The man born blind that Jesus healed in John 9:8,9 [KJV] -- "The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he." But that "I am he" did not make the healed blind man into God.

------ Jesus in John 8:58 [KJV] -- "Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.". Trinitarians would like to think so, but that "I am" [no caps] did not make Jesus into God. This will be explained further below.

(3) Dave, this is the correct question ... in singular form. Exodus 3:14 [KJV] is explained in (1) above -- only GOD said it.

John 8:58 must be taken in context. God, Whom Jesus called "my Father" is in the conversation. (In fact, the New Testament makes reference to "my Father" more than 50 times.) This is important because of the relationship between: (1) the only true God the Father and (2) His Son Jesus whom He sent -- and note the SENDER (God) and the SENDEE (Jesus the Messiah). [Sadly, there are posters who confuse God the Father and/with His Son Jesus because of the passage: "I and my Father are one" ... these folks think that they are one and the same and that they are interchangeable.]

There are many other occurrences of the phrase "I am" in the New Testament. The implication is that "I am" is equivalent to "I am he" or "I am the one."

Speaking of context, please note John 8:41,42 [KJV] -- "Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."

Speaking of context (and Ken has already mentioned this), please note John 8:56 [KJV] -- "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." This verse is speaking of the coming of the Messiah. In John 8:58, Jesus was saying "I am [the Messiah sent by God the Father]." It was a prophecy of the Messiah which Abraham knew about and saw it coming. The Messiah came from God -- not God coming from God.

CONTEXT ... CONTEXT ... CONTEXT. The coming Messiah was prophesied and Abraham knew about it. The coming Messiah was sent by the only true God the Father: "I proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:42, KJV). The Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus, not because he was claiming to be God, but because they understood he was claiming to be the Messiah. "But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God" (Matt. 26:63, KJV).

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Try This ['I AM' vs. 'I am']

January 1 2017, 8:44 AM 

It should be quite clear that when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am," Jesus indicated that He had always existed, had been with God as God from the foundation of the world, as John 1:1 also teaches. The "I am" [caps or no caps] of Exodus is said in the same context as in John: that is, "I exist and have always existed." Thus, by saying that, Jesus was telling the Jews that He was God in the flesh. That's why they desired to stone Him. We must also realize that whereas capitalization and punctuation are standard in the English language, they were not standard in the language of the Bible. Therefore, there is no difference in context between God's "I AM" in Exodus vs. Jesus' "I am" in John, because Jesus is God in the flesh. Comparing Jesus' "I am" to Paul's "I am" is to compare apples with oranges, because Paul was not divine, whereas Jesus was.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

I AM for Jesus and God

January 1 2017, 6:26 PM 

Donnie, you have tried that one before. You try to muddy the water with anything that would mention "I am." The "I am" is NOT the same as the "I Am" that both Jesus and God ONLY can attest to.

You tried that before and were proved to be wrong. It has nothing to do with the Greek text, but the MEANING only.

You said "(2) The expression "I am" [no caps], with the same Greek text, was said by:
------ Paul in Acts 26:28,29 [KJV] -- "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds." But that "I am" did not make Paul into God."

You were right to say that the "I am' that Paul used there did not make him God. You knew that already though. The two "I Am' that asserted DIETY. You knew that with grammar the one you quoted in Acts 26 spoke of a noun-verbiage. 'I am what?'

I AM, the phrase as being God, is used only twice...once by God in Exodus and once by Jesus in John

Not even a good try Donnie.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

God is God

January 1 2017, 7:08 PM 

God gave Jesus the Glory of being King in His Kingdom. God NEVER gave up any of His own power by bestowing the title of GOD to Jesus, as God did in Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

He also never lowered the Oneness with Jesus with bestowing titles on Him such as: Son of God and Son of Man.

The two claims of I AM in John, by Jesus, and in Exodus, by God, CANNOT be refuted. All others, as mentioned by Donnie, are not claims of being the "I AM" but used in a regular grammatical composition but not espousing the title of GOD.

When anyone denies that GOD SAID that Jesus is God, as GOD HIMSELF calls Jesus (Hebrews 1: 8-9), then they are denying the Righteousness and High Place of our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Let it be understood too, in verse 8 of Hebrews 1 the author there speaks and states that both God is God and Jesus is God when he says "...therefore God, even thy God,...."

That is why Jesus ALWAYS did the will of God while He was on earth. God was with and IN HIM.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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