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Dave
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66.112.162.15

The Word is Jesus

March 8 2017, 5:28 PM 

I didn't think there were SYNONYMNS for the Word. There is only one Word...Jesus.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: The Word is Jesus

March 8 2017, 9:22 PM 

Dave: "I didn't think there were SYNONYMNS [sic] for the Word. There is only one Word...Jesus."

To get the full meaning of a passage it is common practice to use SYNONYMS. This way we can get the full meaning of WORD.

Synonyms can include expressions, language, discourse, conversation. Each carries a meaning that expands our appreciation of the Word, but also of God who sent it. It is not just Jesus but also the Word that accompanied him.

There use to be a young fellow in the mountains who believed in Jesus only.




 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Several Versions

March 8 2017, 9:36 PM 

Scripture stated earlier:
Substitute various synonyms for Word as shown in previous post to get the rich meaning for the first few verses of John 1.

A great idea!!! Actually, any good Greek lexicon will show a wide range of meaning (the words in italics are translated from logos):
  • speaking; words you say (Rom. 15:18, “what I have said and done”).
  • preaching (1 Tim. 5:17, “especially those whose work is preaching and teaching).
  • command (Gal. 5:14, “the entire law is summed up in a single command”).
  • saying; proverb (John 4:37, “thus the saying, ‘One sows, and another reaps’”).
  • message; instruction; proclamation (Luke 4:32, “his message had authority”).
  • assertion; declaration; teaching (John 6:60, “this is a hard teaching”).
  • revelation from God (Matt. 15:6, “you nullify the Word of God”).
  • God’s revelation spoken by His servants (Heb. 13:7, “leaders who spoke the Word of God”).

The online Interlinear New Testament Greek that I use renders John 1:1 as follows (without caps and punctuation throughout the text):

"in the beginning was the saying and the saying was with the god and the saying was god"
"in the beginning was the word and the word was with the god and the word was god"

So, Jesus did not become Jesus 2000 years ago.

So, God did not become Jesus 2000 years ago.

Rather, "THE LOGOS" or "THE SAYING" of God was what became flesh 2000 years ago.



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Word is Jesus

March 8 2017, 9:40 PM 

There are many "progressives" who believe in Jesus Only. They think that Paul said that he had decided to PREACH ONLY JESUS. However, Peter said that he had decided to KNOWN on the Crucified.

1Cor. 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

But, they can't read the rest of the story:

1Cor. 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Cor. 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom,
but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Cor. 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

4. among the Jews, “arkhē sophias phobos Kuriou” LXX Pr.1.7, cf. Jb.28.28, al.; Sophia, recognized first as an attribute of God, was later identified with the Spirit of God, cf. LXX Pr.8 with Si.24sq.

Here is the picture of Sophia who is the goddess of the feminists quite literally among the Methodist feminists clergy.

[linked image]

The feminists at LU drag the men off into Ignatian Meditations where the as-written meditations always blesses the Mother of God.

[linked image]

We have noted that the always-pagan triad MUST include father, mother (spirit) and infant son.

"But the Holy Spirit is a person..."
"...Wisdom is feminine in Scripture. And would that not indicate that the Holy Spirit is feminine?
"We also notice that the Spirit has characteristics like 'giving birth,' 'nurturing,' 'creating,' and 'mothering of all God's creation.' These are feminine characteristics.

"We have always known that within the Godhead, the Trinity, there was a family, the Family of God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But a family is not possible without a father and mother. So, even though the Holy Spirit is not named Mother, She seems to have all the characteristics of Divine Motherhood as the Father has of Divine Fatherhood. It seems that despite our outward tradition, there are underlying reasons for accepting the Holy Spirit as feminine."

"The Feminine Aspect of God is Holy Spirit. She is the

Word of Truth and Wisdom
Divine Counselor from whom we seek guidance
Substance of God that provides our wealth
Co-creator with God in whose image and likeness we are made
Breath of life that causes the soul to live and calls forth the expression of Divine ideas
Experience of God's unconditional Love
Our instructor who speaks in a Still Small Voice
Essence and Presence of God who dwells within our own body temple."


And everyone knows that the clergy and especially the androgynous worship leaders have been NEUTERED and Paul warned you.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Mar 8, 2017 10:20 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Son NOT Eternally Begotten

March 8 2017, 10:12 PM 

Psa. 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

The heathen is that to which God abandoned Israel BECAUSE of musical idolatry.
1471. gowy, go´-ee; rarely (shortened) y…Og goy, go´-ee; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.


Psalm 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder,
.....and cast away their cords from us.
Psalm 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh:
.....the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psalm 2:5 Then shall he speak [Dabar-Logos] unto them in his wrath,
.....and vex them in his sore displeasure.

Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me,
.....Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee

Restoration leaders Like Alexander Campbell agree with Donnie.

The LU and Church of Christ are not TRINITARIANS in the classic sense but TRITHEISTS. They treat "in the beginning" as before there was a beginning and agree that the Son was ETERNALLY BEGOTTEN. However, classical trinitarians say that the Son was eternally begotten because He was the WORD. Psalm 2 and fultillment prove that trinitarians are really are ATHEISTS and ANTI-Logos and have long abandoned the Logos and imagine and claim that they hear A SPIRIT speaking to them beyond the sacred pages.

This is prophecy which defines the future REST of Jesus inclusively and exclusively.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Mar 8, 2017 10:32 PM


 
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Scripture
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23.117.130.209

Re: Several Versions

March 9 2017, 12:43 PM 

John 7:46 "No one ever spoke as this man speaks." REB

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Take Your Time...You Can Handle This

March 8 2017, 10:47 PM 

Dave said earlier:
EXPLAIN, as best you can, the second clause "....and the word was with the god..."

The Word, being Jesus before He was in the flesh, was with the god (not capitalized). Who was "the god?"

Dave,

(1) It's the wrong order of events when you say that Jesus was already Jesus before he became (was made) flesh. It was THE LOGOS (THE WORD or THE SAYING) of God which became flesh (John 1:14).

(2) "... and the word was with the god ..." [John 1:1b]

The expression "the god" [no caps in NT Greek text] in the second clause is all throughout the Bible. In the "religious" sense, it refers to the "Supreme Being." In the scriptural sense, it refers to God our Heavenly Father. The expression is referenced about 300 times in the Bible (40 times in the New Testament to refer to God in heaven).

So, "the god" [in NT Greek] or "the God" [in English translation] refers to:

--- the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
--- the God of heaven
--- the God of Israel
--- the God of David thy father
--- the God of Jerusalem
--- the God of my salvation
--- the God of the living
--- the God of all comfort
--- the God of love and peace
--- the God of our fathers
--- (and other expressions)
--- above all ... and this is only one of references:

--- the God of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:17)


There's much more to bring up, but let you masticate that much first.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Take Your Time...You Can Handle This

March 9 2017, 12:47 AM 

Theophilus who invented the TRIAS WORD said.

Chapter X.-The World Created by God Through the Word.

And first, they taught us with one consent that God made all things out of nothing;
.....for nothing was coeval with God: but He being His own place, and wanting nothing,
.....and existing before the ages, willed to make man by whom He might be known;
.....for him, therefore, He prepared the world.
.....For he that is created is also needy; but he that is uncreated stands in need of nothing.

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
.....begat Him, emitting Him
.....along with His own wisdom before all things.

He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him, and by Him He made all things.

.....He is called "governing principle", because He rules, and is Lord of all things fashioned by Him.
.....He, then, being Spirit of God, and governing principle, and wisdom, and power of the highest,
.....came down upon the prophets, and through them spoke of the creation of the world and of all other things.

For the prophets were not when the world came into existence,
.....but the wisdom of God which was in Him, and
..... His holy Word which was always present with Him.

Wherefore He SPEAKS thus by the prophet Solomon:

....."When He prepared the heavens I (Wisdom or Sophia) was there,
.....and when He appointed the foundations of the earth I was by Him as one brought up with Him."
.....[ [Ps. cxix. 130. Note this tribute to the inspired Scriptures and their converting power;
..... I might almost say their sacramental energy, referring to John vi. 63.]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Jesus was not ETERNALLY BEGOTTEN as the LUites teach.

March 9 2017, 11:15 AM 

We noted above that the prophecy about the SON of God:

Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my KING upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree:
the Lord
hath said unto me,
Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee

Acts 4:19 But PETER and John answered and said unto them,
.....Whether it be right in the sight of God
.....to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
Acts 4:20 For we cannot but SPEAK the things which we have SEEN and HEARD.


Jesus made the prophecies concerning himself and the church more certain and validated His role to speak by signs and wonders to those who were EYE-- EAR--witnesses. They lft us a MEMORY and said that the certified prophecies are not subject to private interpretation meaning "further expounding". To tamper with the once revealed Word anyone who does not speak "that which is written" are marked as false teachers. That is a pretty easy text without judging.

Max Lucado sees VISIONS and Rubel Shelly Hears Voices and Jesus will not let them tell the truth as they corrupt the Word or sell their learning at retail which is an adultery concept.

Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their RULERS,
.....because they knew him not,
.....nor yet the voices of the PROPHETS
.....which are READ every sabbath day,
.....they have FULFILLED them in condemning him


We noted that Jude said in reference to the Instrumental-trinitarian-perverted idolatry at Mount Sinai and warns US by saying that they were FOREORDAINED to that purpose..

Acts 4:21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them,
.....because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done.
Acts 4:22 For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was shewed.
Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company,
.....and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord,
.....and said, Lord, THOU art God,
.....which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Acts 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said,
.....Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?


Rage: Fremo: ludisque plausuque [play and clap] resound, festis ululatibus, [celebrate and HALAL] iritating howl like dogs,

Ovid 3 This matter all Achaia through did spreade the Prophets fame:
That every where of just desert renowned was his name.
But Penthey, olde Echions sonne (who proudely did disdaine
Both God and man) did laughe to scorne the Prophets words as vaine,
Upbrading him most spitefully with loosing of his sight,
And with the fact for which he lost fruition of this light.
The good olde father (for these wordes his pacience much did move)
Saide: how happie shouldest thou be and blessed from above,
If thou wert blinde as well as I, so that thou might not see
The sacred rytes of Bacchus band. For sure the time will bee,
And that full shortely (as I gesse) that hither shall resort
Another Bacchus, Semelles sonne, whome if thou not support
With pompe and honour like a God, thy carcasse shall be tattred,
The noble men and rascall sorte ran gadding also thither,
The Orgies [WRATH] of this unknowne God full fondely to performe,
The which when Penthey did perceyve, he gan to rage and storme.
And sayde unto them: O ye ympes of Mars his snake by kinde
What ayleth you? what fiend of hell doth thus enrage your minde?
Hath tinking sound of pottes and pannes, hath noyse of crooked home [Clanging Brass],
Have fonde illusions such a force that them whome heretoforne
No arming sworde, no bloudie trumpe, no men in battail ray
Could cause to shrinke, no sheepish shriekes of simple women fray,


Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers


PROPHECY FULFILLED: Gather is the SYNAGOGUE WORD: They were and are the synagogue of Satan.

.....were gathered together against the Lord, AND against HIS Christ.
Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus,
.....whom thou hast anointed, [He was neither Christ nor Lord until this time]
.....both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles,
.....and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel DETERMINED before to be done.
Acts 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings:
.....and grant unto thy servants,
.....that with all BOLDNESS they may SPEAK [utter words] thy WORD, [LOGOS]


It may be cowardice to deny that Jesus was God's Son only after He obeyed the MARK of being baptized.

SPEAK is the opposite of ODE or sing. The Word or LOGOS is the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE which outlaws anything NOT the WORD and not SPOKEN. The progressives may just be cowards knowing that according to Jesus if you speak the Word as He spoke the Word, the WORLD will hate you. However, all of the evidence says that they are FOREORDAINED to that role. They are earth born or OF the World and they have a WORLD, Kosmos, Ecumenical as the kingdom of the Devil and they spend fortunes promoting it as a CHRISTIAN World View.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Mar 9, 2017 10:11 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Teaching Donnie

March 10 2017, 1:59 AM 

"It was THE LOGOS (THE WORD or THE SAYING) of God which became flesh (John 1:14).

(2) "... and the word was with the god ..." [John 1:1b]"

It wasn't THE SAYING of God. Jesus wasn't just another word of God, but THE Word.
Also, whether you capitalize it or not, if "the god" is the ONE God, and the Word, which became Jesus, was NOT created but IN THE BEGINNING, FOREVER and OF God, then He is God. No other way. God is only infinite, and John says that the Word, which became flesh (Jesus), was in the beginning also, then Jesus is infinite also. If Jesus is equal with God, then He can only be God also. He isn't the Father, so don't go there Donnie....but God. The Word took on fleshly form in Jesus, but wasn't created. Hence, IN THE BEGINNING...

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

I am surprised you haven't tried changing "In the beginning...:"
Is that next?



 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Teaching Donnie

March 10 2017, 10:06 AM 

Word is one of those religious words which individuals stereotype and forget the impact behind them.

For example, we have words such as atonement, grace, propitiation, and ransom which are loaded with meaning. But when people hear them they are put to sleep. The use of synonyms awakens the spirituality within us, to the light of Christian grace.

The Logos (Word) are the moral and physical principles by which the world was framed. The life of Christ is the manifestation of the righteousness of God, which is summed up in the many examples and teaching that he presented on earth.

This logos is the moral force giving us the earth and heavens through which we have blessings. The physical principles of gravity, light, and substance result from the logos, but not only that, the principles by which Christians are guided as equally majestic and powerful. These principles are expressed through the way we treat our fellow beings as well as how we treat the earth.

Logos cannot be separated from the its commandments. This is explicitly stated in Jeremiah (chapter7), where he chastised those who visited the temple, for being worshippers of God, but yet full of depravity in their abuse of the poor, widows, the underpowered. One might have decided he has the correct view on the nature of God (temple worshippers) but at the same time be a predator on the less powerful.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Teaching Donnie

March 10 2017, 11:06 AM 

That is a great summary, Scripture. As a young seeker I wanted to know the meaning of propitiation? My only resource said: "propitiation, that which propitiates."

Religion is like a coin but I find no evidence that the latest spawn of scholars understands.

Words like Word and Grace and about anything you can think about were GOD PERSONS among the ancient and modern pagans.

Scripture is the opposite side of the coin: Grace "hath appeared TEACHING" us to deny what the grace-centered people promote. Light or Sun or planets were gods. Cappella is the Goat constellation and PAN.

The god of the New Hermeneutics is Mercury-Kairos-Hermes the LOGOS and the god of thieves and liars.

The Babylonian Logos was Marduk.

"In the deep abyss he was conceived, MARDUK was made in the heart of the apsu, MARDUK was created in the heart of the holy apsu. [heaven and earth were "god"]

Ea begot him and Damkina bore him, father and mother; he sucked the paps of goddesses, from his nurses he was fed on the terribleness that filled him. His body was beautiful; when he raised his eyes great lights flared; his stride was majestic; he was the leader from the first.

When Ea who begot him saw him he exulted, he was radiant, light-hearted, for he saw that he was perfect, and he multiplied his godhead, the one to be first and stand highest. His limbs were immaculate, the making a fearful mystery beyond comprehension; with four eyes for limitless sight, and four ears hearing all; when his lips moved a tongue of fire burst out. Titanic limbs, standing so high he overtopped the tallest god; he was strong and he wore the glory of ten, and their lightnings played round him.

'My son, my son, SON of the SUN, and heaven's sun!"


Shelly and Lucado said that we should BAPTIZE SANTA and think of the S.O.N. god as the S.U.N. god. Lucado says that God sent a VEIL OF LIGHT into Mary in his Cosmic Christmas. The defunct universities are bonded to the NACC (Christian Church) and they wrote a lot about COSMIC WORSHIP which I believe Randy Harrris the monk would INDUCE.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Those who blaspheme

March 10 2017, 11:47 AM 

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for BLASPHEMY; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
Thou BLASPHEMEST; because I said, I am the SON OF GOD?
John 10:37 If I do not the works of MY FATHERbelieve me not.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


In John 14 WE are in the FATHER-SON when we KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS delivered by the SON who is in UNION with the Father. Father-Son is IN US only when we keep God's commandments.

If you believe the JEWS then you call Jesus a LIAR and to deny that Jesus is the SON of the FATHER is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit OF God in the Prophets and Apostles. When the Word is spoken it is like LIVING WATERS.

g4487. rhema, hfrom 4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specially),; by implication, a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever: — + evil, + nothing, saying, word.

SPEAK is g2980. laleo, ; a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. utter words: — preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare 3004. LEGO to speak to the point or purpose, explain more fully, recite what is written.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto ME.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.


The purpose is to GO and preach the WORD as the One-Piece Pattern not open to those with a GO BUTTON. When the message is spoken those who gladly received HIS LOGOS can be baptized and therefore MOCK that which is not available to those of the VIPER RACE who are the subjects of a baptism of SPIRIT (wind) and FIRE: they are CHAFF and there is always a lot more chaff than grain.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


God gives adopted children to the SON only those who can confess that:

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the SON of GOD.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

If you deny the SON of the FATHER then you just got dipped. If you later deny your confession there is NO MORE REMISSION OF SINS.

Heb. 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

In Mark "he that believeth not" is APISTOS meaning "I will NOT comply" and are therefore MARKED as the adversary or a treacherous or and UNDERCOVER AGENT.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Mar 10, 2017 12:01 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

YOU YOU YOU

March 10 2017, 12:57 PM 

Ken said "If you deny the SON of the FATHER then you just got dipped. If you later deny your confession there is NO MORE REMISSION OF SINS.

Heb. 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Good thing...while there is still breath in your body you can work on these things.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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