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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 6:05 PM 

Donnie, we just interpret the Scriptures differently regarding the Trinity and Jesus being God. I see no reason for that to bother you as much as it seems to, given that it keeps you up all hours of the night and compels you to post pictures of Jesus with words of mockery such as, "Are You There God? It's You, Jesus." Such tactics only paint you as an obsessed, megalomaniacal religious fanatic to all readers here.

Like it or not, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 6:51 PM 

Consider: Is God the Father human?

What does it mean that God created man and woman in his own image?

Did "man" lose that image in the fall in Eden?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 18 2017, 2:25 PM 

Man in the image of God is

Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

h6754. tseh´-lem; from an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol:—image, vain shew.

Latin: A In gen., an image or likeness of a thing formed in the mind, a conception, thought, imagination, idea:


Does that mean that God created mankind in His imagination? And then formed them? Very interesting but it may be a strong warning for those who tamper with God's Word.

Looking for the Garden of Eden may be in vain since Adam and Eve lived is a place or dimension where they had contact with God. It may fit the idea that the Little Flock are in exile and not OF this world:

Heb. 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
1Pet. 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;


What about Cain finding other people?

Gen. 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Gen. 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Gen. 4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.


There was a good son and and evil son and also a good Lamech family and an evil Lamech family.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 7:01 PM 

Bill,

As I said, your diagnosis is wrong. My schedule of activities is not yours.

Actually, I've lost track of the number of times you made exactly the same comments. You're sounding like praying the "Hail Mary, Mother of God" repetitively.

When the Scripture tells me that Jesus the Crucified is THE one whom God made both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16), and that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD (the N.T. is replete with references), there is nothing else I can change about that [unlike the Pope and his followers].

When the Scripture tells me that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, I am not interpreting it -- rather I am reading it (like a third grader) and have no problem understanding it whatsoever.

That (1) Jesus is God and (2) that Jesus is also the Son of God -- can't have it both ways, brother.

Maybe you should start questioning the inventor and the invention of the Trinity dogma, not the Scripture?

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 7:13 PM 

Philippians 2:5-10 give as good a solution as any passage.

Is Jesus divine? Is being divine the same as being "God"?

Is the simple difference in these discussants that one group believes in subordination in divine relationships while the others are unitarians?

But the differences are even greater on the nature of the holy Spirit.

 
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Ken Subltt
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 8:32 PM 

Jesus was filled with the Godhead and even scholars in high places translate that into being God Himself or God THEMselves. However, theotes just means that Jesus was filled with the Divine Nature. To the extent that believers are in Christ they also take part in the Divine Nature but having the nature of God does not make us Gods. Some people attend divine services but the places are not God.

2Pet. 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine [godlike] nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

People see the "form of God" and translate "being God." If Jesus was literally God it would make no sense to say the Form OF God. God is Spirit without flesh and bones. However, Jesus denied that He was Spirit because they could see that He was made of flesh and bones. If God was contained in a body of flesh and bones able to die that would contradict Paul who said that WE live IN God:

Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Form as morph-ē , hē, 2. generally, form, fashion, appearance, morphēs eikōn 3. kind, sort

Forma speaks of an image, plan, design. Image or eikon from g3313. meros, mer´-os; from an obsolete but more primary form of mei÷romai meiromai (to get as a section or allotment); a division or share (literally or figuratively, in a wide application):

g 1504Eikon likeness, image, whether picture or statue, metaph., living image, representation, “ similitude, comparison, Ar g 1503through the idea of faintness as a copy); to resemble: — be like.

2 Cor 4:4] in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 8:57 PM 

Paul does say that we as are adopted as sons of God through Jesus Christ. Gal 4:4-6.

God sends the Spirit of Christ His Son into our hearts by which we call Him "Daddy", referring to child-like faith.

Beautiful passages!


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 9:48 PM 

God gave Jesus powers which we cannot imagine. However, he took on the form of a lowly servant. That is a message about the nature of God which is beyond the grasp of those who seek to be rich and famous and have others serve them. It is a shocking testimony about those OF the World as the crooked or viper race.

The Book of Enoch and similar early views seems to prove that they know their fate. All of the jumping and jiving and hustling appears to me to be those being consumed by their own and God's breath.

Job 4:7 Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath [h7307 spirit] of his nostrils are they consumed.
Job 4:10 The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.

Is. 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.

2Th. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th. 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th. 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th. 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th. 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 9:46 PM 

Donnie, you as my CM test subject are certainly not obligated to accept my "diagnosis," which is quite accurate nonetheless, just like I'm not obligated to accept your often-controversial theology. And I've lost track of the number of times you've brought up the "Hail Mary" business. You resort to that when you've run out of something original to say.

We can still remain as friends, however, even if we do agree to disagree. happy.gif

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 10:03 PM 

"Which is quite accurate nontheless" is either humor or egotism?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 10:41 PM 

Dr. Bill calls Dr. Jesus a liar: that's his diagnosis ready to go to court.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 16 2017, 11:16 PM 

Making an accurate diagnosis is not egotism. It is simply stating a fact. Though an accurate diagnosis may be upsetting and contrary to what one wishes to hear, there it is anyway.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 17 2017, 12:18 AM 

If Bill's diagnosis is accurate to him, it is a fact to him only. But his diagnosis is inaccurate to me; it must be humor.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 17 2017, 12:54 AM 

Doc's Jesus speaks to Himself.

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


You can't interpret that unless you think that God and all of the translators for these thousands of years just wrote gibberish.

1Cor. 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [translate, further expound]

A Church of Christ is built upon the Prophets by the Spirit OF Christ and the eye- and ear-witnesses of Jesus making these prophecies more certain. Holy Scripture is defined as that which concerned Messiah. Peter and others left us a "memory" and outlawed further expounding of the prophecies which Jesus with supernatural power affirmed or certified.

2Pet. 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pet. 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye TAKE HEED, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:


Lipscomb's Rubel Shelly began or helped Max Lucado by insisting that WE should hear audible voices. Others use WICCA or vision casting for a 20/20 vision and then has everyone pray for 40 days. It the original agenda is continued then the fleecees are supposed to believe that they SOMEHOW must have heard an AUDIBLE VOICE confirming their agenda. Why do they do that? paraphrasing Paul and Lincoln "You can fool MOST of the people most of the time" and that is good enough. The Purpose Driven Cult calculates that you can cast out up to half of the owners from their own "synagogue" and still be economically viable by collecting more butterflies.

True Worship in truth gives heed or attendance to the WORD. The Logos outlaws rhetoric, singing non Biblical songs or playing instruments.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

2Pet. 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


OUTLAWED
g1955 epilusis s; from 1956; explanation, i.e. application: — interpretation.
g1956. epiluo, ep-ee-loo´-o; from 1909 and 3089; to solve further, i.e. (figuratively) to explain, decide: — determine, expound

Writing your own songs is an attempt to further expound or interpret which Jesus has completed because "in these last days God speaks through His son--only.

2Pet. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


God speaks to the spiritual people through the prophets and not to goat and infant burning to the sound of the Levite's noise not called music.

They made their hearts as hard as flint and would not listen to the law
.....or to the words that the LORD Almighty
.....had sent by his Spirit through the earlier prophets.
.....So the LORD Almighty was very angry. Zechariah 7:12

Jesus is called our TEACHER and not our worship leader. Humans have nothing to add beyond reading and obeying the Word (Logos or regulative principle) to enable either God or the Disciples created with a rational mind. For those who try to INTERPRET clear statements of fact are defined by Peter in the next chapter:

2Pet. 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


The trinity which in 1 John denies the "ONE God the Father and One Son" who is called a MAN with flesh and bones, denies Jesus by claiming that NOW The Holy Spirit Person speaks to them and therefore Instrumental Mocking Jesus. John calls them ANTICHRISTS.

2Pet. 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pet. 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned WORDS make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


People make "plastic" or molded words as hypocrite and BY FOREORDINATION deny the LOGOS or Regulative Principle which outlaws any vocal or instrumental enhancement to that which is written for our LEARNING.

Jude referenced the MUSICAL idolatry at Mount Sinai and warned that the Word has been delivered and anyone who speaks to enhance or interpret that word are FOREORDAINED. They are OF the Word and Jesus does not pray for them. Their feigned Christian World View is ecumenical and the kingdom of the Devil.

The SEAL of having "a" holy spirit (ours) or a good conscience is letting the Word speak for itself.

No one was wise unto salvation by the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levite instrument players used as a PATTERN for those likewise abandoned. The Church of the ROCK in the wilderness never changed:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Just READ the Word or SPEAK the Word which is the Opposite of ODE. I have to repeat this to drive enough nails that the religious Draculas can never get out:

[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jan 17, 2017 1:10 PM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Are You There, God? It's You, Jesus!!!

January 17 2017, 12:37 AM 

Bill,

The controversy is not when you present the truth from Scripture: that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD. I think everyone knows (except you) that the controversial theology is the invented pagan-influenced Trinity dogma.

Don't complain to me about the "Hail Mary." Why not? Because when you believe what the Pope says [and many Protestant Churches have acquired this teaching from the RCC] that since Jesus is God, then it follows that God has a "Mother."

Actually the RCC teaches two Trinity types:

(1) TRINITY: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit (1+1+1=1)
(2) TRINITY: God the Father, Jesus the Son is God, Virgin Mary: Mother of God



 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

YES THEY ARE BOTH TRUE

January 17 2017, 2:10 AM 

Donnie said That (1) Jesus is God and (2) that Jesus is also the Son of God -- can't have it both ways, brother."

That is YOUR burden to bear; that you CANNOT believe that the two can coexist. They Scriptures attest to the fact that they can and DO.

With God, all things are possible.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: YES THEY ARE BOTH TRUE

January 17 2017, 9:05 AM 

Some folks limit God's eternal power because of their own limited insight. For example, these folks believe that "All things are possible with God" applies only to Jesus' conversation with the rich man, who wouldn't follow Jesus if he had to give all his riches to the poor (Matt. 19:16ff). Jesus says that all things are possible with God. It follows that God is capable of doing anything anywhere at any time as He so chooses.

Jesus' statement indicates that anything is possible when God is behind it. There is no limit to what God can do. Therefore, it is possible for God to be the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit all in One Being. People who say that Jesus cannot be God and the Son of God at the same time reveal that they are incapable of even remotely comprehending the magnitude of God's eternal and limitless power.

People should not allow the arrogance and stubbornness of their finite minds to limit the capabilities of the Infinite God.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: YES THEY ARE BOTH TRUE

January 18 2017, 3:10 AM 

Bill,

The New Testament says that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD 44 times; that Jesus is the Son of man 87 times.

When you make a truly man-made statement that Jesus is God (which is nowhere to be found in the entire Scripture), you can also make a statement that God is the Son of man. Right, Bill, when "all things are possible with God"?

Where did you get the idea that God can/would magically change His nature from being God (the Father) to being the Son of God or vice versa just because "all things are possible with God"?

How confusing is your concept of God's nature. Remember that "God is not the author of confusion" (I Cor. 14:33)

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: YES THEY ARE BOTH TRUE

January 18 2017, 3:57 AM 

Dave,

Gotcha!

You and Bill have the same excuse or fallacious argument when confronted with the question of God changing His nature from being God the Father to being the Son of God. Or, vice versa. Your misuse/abuse of the scriptures is very telling.

We find "all things are possible" in Matt. 19:26; Mark 9:23; Mark 10:27. Take note especially of Mark 14:36 where Jesus, the Son of God, actually addressed his God and Father with: "Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." These passages among several others, in fact, prove that Jesus the Son and God the Father, though related, are two separate beings. These passages have nothing to do with God magically changing His nature just to prove that the impossible is possible with God.

Dave, I have NO BURDEN to bear. There are many other scriptures that prove that:

(1) There is God the Father
--------- and ---------
(2) There is the only begotten Son of God the Father.

They both exist [please read these passages very carefully]:
Mark 16[19] So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Acts 2[33] Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 7[55] But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7[56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Rom. 8[34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Col. 3[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Heb. 10[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

1 Pet. 3[22] Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

No Magic for Donnie

January 18 2017, 11:08 AM 

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Donnie said "When you make a truly man-made statement that Jesus is God (which is nowhere to be found in the entire Scripture), you can also make a statement that God is the Son of man."

John 1 STATES that Jesus WAS/IS God. Not Bill, not Dave, but the INPSPIRED Word of God. John, the author, was INSPIRED. No, Donnie, verse one does not mean that the 'Word was a 'god.' Through interpretation from the Greek (nothing to do with bias but actual intepretation of the words), we have already seen that it does mean GOD. No, Donnie, Jesus was not just a god. You, personally, can insult, the King of Kings, with that insolent diatribe, but Jesus is Deity. Jesus is God.
You did not tell the truth.....again.

Donnie also said "When you make a truly man-made statement that Jesus is God (which is nowhere to be found in the entire Scripture), you can also make a statement that God is the Son of man."

Nowhere in Scriptures does it say that God is the Son of man. Man's logic (Donnie Cruz) believes that the two can be switched. If Jesus is God, then God is Jesus.
DONNIE CRUZ says that, not the INSPIRED Word of God.
You did not tell the truth....again.




 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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