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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Answer question with a Question

February 18 2017, 12:34 AM 

I'll answer your question, but you still have to answer my question earlier.

The WORD or the SAYING or the LOGOS of God the Father was in the beginning with Him.

The WORD or the SAYING or the LOGOS of God the Father became flesh 2 millennia ago -- not God the Father Himself. God NEVER became flesh!!!

The Word (Logos) OF GOD was not created.

John 1:14 clearly states that it was the LOGOS (spoken) that became flesh.


Now, please answer my question above.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Here is Your Answer

February 18 2017, 1:29 AM 

Being that the Word was NOT created, as you stated, then the Word has to be God. The Word has be God since it was not created. No other way, no other thought. If Jesus is what has become of the Word, which became flesh, as you stated, and Jesus is with God today, sitting on His right hand, then He is still eternal....He is God.

I will answer as best I see. Your number one is affront to God and Jesus. Your name calling for them is atrocious. Jesus is the Son of God, yet still God. John 1 attests to this. I have already proven that the author meant to show that the Word was God, and not a god. ONLY GOD can do what John says in the verse chapter. It doesn't matter if you nor I believe what John says in the first verse of John 1. It still will always be true and valid. God is the Father, and Jesus is God, AND....without Jesus being the Father.
IT IS POSSIBLE and IT IS!

It isn't just John 1, but other verses attest to the validity of Jesus being also equal with God. If He is equal, then He can only be God. You choose not to believe it because you are working on human logic. I choose to believe what God says through the Scriptures. You know what the Word states also, but use this Trinitarian cloak to make your opinion seem to be valid. It isn't. You want those Scriptures that show the Truth to be gone. They will NEVER be gone, and always True. I believe that the KJV translators were LED by God to do His bidding. YOU, HOWEVER, do NOT believe that God is powerful enough to guard His Word.

'Are you there God? Its you, Jesus.'

Your blasphemy doesn't go unnoticed.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Here is Your Answer

February 19 2017, 9:59 PM 

Dave,

The LOGOS (SAYING, WORD) of God that He SPOKE is neuter, was not a being. Of course, what God spoke was in the beginning with God. The spirit of God, likewise, is neuter and was not a being while it was in the beginning with God. Remember Genesis 1:2? "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The original text of the 2nd clause in John 1:1 is -- "and the word was with the god."

Who omitted the definite article "the" from "the god"? Trinitarian translators.

The original text of the 3rd clause in John 1:1 is -- "and the word was god."

Who capitalized "god" as "God" in the 3rd clause? Trinitarian translators.

Dave, there are over 140 passages that DECLARE that Jesus is the Son of God. There is not a single declaration in the entire Bible that Jesus the Son of God is God. I know, I know that YOU made that declaration yourself in your post above.

All the other passages that you believe help the cause of the Catholic Trinity Creed do not prove your claim that Jesus is God.


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Just Some Thoughts

February 19 2017, 11:29 PM 

To those engaged in endless arguments about whether or not Jesus is God...

When it appears that no one's mind has been changed and the arguments are going nowhere, maybe it's time to consider the following questions:

By endlessly arguing, are you really "doing the Lord's work," or are you simply trying to "win" arguments against those who are too stubborn to believe like you do?

Does endlessly arguing really help you to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take in the stranger, and minister to the sick and the incarcerated, as Jesus outlines in Matt. 25:35-40?

Does endlessly arguing really help you to practice "pure religion"; that is, to visit the fatherless and widows and to keep yourself unspotted from the world, as outlined in James 1:27?

If the arguments are going nowhere, maybe it's time to practice some real Christianity in the real world instead of playing at it on Internet message boards.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 8:26 AM 

The porcupine says to his mate, "I don't know why the lion and tiger are having such a big scrap! What business is this of mine?"

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 11:29 AM 

We can ignore the irrelevant zoo of lions and tigers and porcupines (oh my).

Which of the following two options is really "doing the Lord's work"?

1. Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, ministering to the sick and those in prison, taking in the stranger, visiting the widows and orphans, and keeping yourself unspotted from the world.

2. Pursuing endless arguments that go nowhere, that change no one's mind, and you engage in them mainly to try to "win" arguments against, and feel superior to, those who are too stubborn to believe as you do.

After honestly examining your heart, if you find that the second option applies to you, then maybe it's time to abandon it, turn over a new leaf, pursue the first option, and practice some real Christianity in the real world instead of exposing yourself as a religious fraud on Internet message boards.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 11:51 AM 

Have you begun now to visit the sick and help the needy?

This would be good for all of us.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 12:55 PM 

Are you implying that you've primarily (if not exclusively) participated in endless arguments on message boards, whereas caring for the sick and needy is now something of a "new" idea to you? Just wondering.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 1:24 PM 

Scripture,

I got the same impression from Bill as you did -- that he now has that new zeal (unbeknownst to him that he is still participating in the discussion). I, too, would like an update on how's he doing with his stated mission [as though it were the first time we've heard of it happy.gif ]>

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 2:07 PM 

No, this is not a new idea to me. In fact, I've also been concerned for some time about that.

I really thought that maybe you were now doing it but not before. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but just for information, since I would be very pleased if you do have a new leaf, but if you have been doing that all along, this is also good.

I readily admit that I could do more per the judgments of Matthew 25:31-46.

How is your addiction about posting on CM doing? happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 2:09 PM 

Bill, no. Just needing an update from you, so others can emulate you.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Just Some Thoughts

February 20 2017, 12:10 PM 

Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the Lord, neither consider the operation of his hands.

Isa 5:13 THEREFORE my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.

Isa 5:14 Therefore HELL hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Isa 5:15 And the mean [crooked] man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

“sublimia carmina,” Juv. 7, 28: “verbum,” Quint. 8, 3, 18: “clara et sublimia verba,” id. ib.: “oratio of orators, poets

Isa 5:29 Their roaring shall be LIKE A LION, they shall roar like young lions; yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it.

Isa 5:30 And in that day they shall roar against them LIKE the roaring of the sea: and if one look unto the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.

Amos 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit [fruits is fruits]. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.
Amos 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.

[linked image]

Howling is the laments of the Progressives who KNOW that they are foreordained but the worm is beginning to turn and the world will know that a great tribulation which based on the numbers alive is of BIBLICAL PROPORTION.

Is. 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Is. 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt:

Isa. 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is BLASPHEMED.
Is. 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day thatI AM he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Is. 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

THEN we can sing or SHOUT FOR JOY but not under the DIRECTION of the Musical Shouting Leader. David Young and the North Boulevard crowd want to sing and shout and hug and kiss but I will just have to write off my INVESTMENT WITH THE LORD.




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Feb 20, 2017 12:24 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Here is Your Answer

February 20 2017, 1:04 AM 

When Scripture speaks it is almost always to debunk the ancient and modern superstitions. For instance dunlap notes based on the Jewish fire worship:

The Chaldaean held that all things are the progeny of One Fire, that the Primal Fire did not enclose his power within matter by works but by mind, for the Architect (the Logos) of the fiery world is the Mind of mind. Consequently " the Fire- heated Ennoia holds the first rank, and afterwards comes the first of the immaterials or spirituals. So, too, the soul was held to be, by the Power of the Father, bright fire ; remains immortal, and is the mistress of life. Compare Genesis, ii. 7. Moreover the Chaldaean Logos was the Father - begotten Light, for he alone, having gathered from the power of the Father the flower of mind, is able to understand the Paternal Mind (—Proklus, in Timaeum, 242, Cory, 253, 254; Hermes Trismegistus, I. 6 ; Jeremiah, li. 7, 13). Like a Jew, Simon the Gittite held the intelligible, mind-perceived, and visible nature of Fire ; that the beginning of all things is boundless Fire.2 And the Hindu sage declared that when the Divine Being formed out of the waters the Spirit, He looked on it, and its mouth opened like an egg: out of its mouth proceeded the Word, and from the Word came forth Fire!

Preceptis utpote non hnmanis sed a deo traditis. Athenagoras p. 170 strictly objects to too much kissing; and says that the rule of the order is to regard her as his wife whom he has married legally. But having the hope of eternal life they contemned the things of this life.—p. 170. Philo called these Gssaians and Therapentes; Josephns calls them Essenes. They were Jews worshipping the Logos.—Rev. six. 8, 13. Epi- phanius calls them lessaians. In the Apokalypse, xiv. 4, xix. 11, 13, they are looking for the Coming of the Logos. Philo Jndaens is one who believed in a Great Archangel who was the Logos, bnt not in the flesh. The Spirit, then, and the Powir from the God it is not proper to think anything else than the Logos.—Justin, Apol., I. p. 148. Being His Logos and firstbegotten and power.—ib. p. 144. Hermes the Hermeneutic

Logo* and Temoher of all.—ib. p. 143. Hermes the Logos bringing-messages from God.—ib. 143. The Passion of Dionysus is a Sacred Stout about the being born again I—Plutarch, Sarkophagia, vii. They consider the Adon Dionysus.—ib. Sumpos. ProbL iv. 5, 8. The Adon dies and the remains of Dionysus are laid away near the oracle at Delphi.—ib. De Iside, 35. Athenagoras, however, p. 166, teems to quote almost literally Matthew, v. 38. The Nazoria were John's disciples.

Vak, the Wisdom.1 is the feminine Logos2 the supreme and universal soul, the active power of Brahma. She says: I uphold both the sun and the ocean, the firnianieut and fire . . . I pervade heaven and earth.

The Bun is the emblem of the Logos, according to Philo. Affirming the sun to be the offspring proceeding perpetually from Apollo, who is eternal and who perpetually brings him forth. — Plutarch, de Pyth. Orac. 42. Some regarded Apollo and the Sun not us two Gods, but one.


That is why that which appeared and spoke in John 1 was the SON of God.




 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Here is Your Answer

February 20 2017, 12:24 PM 

So many folks have real difficulty in understanding simple words and expressions, including biased translators, scholars and professors:

----- is
----- of
----- the
----- and
----- it, its
----- became
----- "manifest in the"
----- "my God, my God"
----- "in the form of"
----- "the image of"
----- "in the image of"
----- "greater than I"
----- "are one"
----- "O God" [not found in the original text]
----- "the god" vs. "god"
----- "one God"
----- "true God"
----- "the true God"
----- "the only true God" (John 17:3)
----- "the living and true God"
----- "the holy Spirit OF God" (Eph. 4:30)




 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Here is Your Answer

February 20 2017, 1:21 PM 

Perhaps if people spent LESS time agonizing over translations, this particular word, that particular word, various word groupings, and spent LESS time taking notes in the worship assembly to write negative critiques about their church on the Internet...

Perhaps if those same people spent MORE time caring for the destitute, orphans, widows, and others in need, and if they found a suitable church where they could worship and serve in righteousness...

Perhaps they would be far less likely to expose themselves as religious frauds on Internet message boards.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Here is Your Answer

February 20 2017, 1:29 PM 

Bill, I didn't mean to keep you in agony. Evidently, you are agonizing -- you keep participating. happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Theophilus the WORD is the Regulative Principle Ch 9-10

February 17 2017, 12:18 PM 

Theophilus of Antioch c 180-185 used the word TRIAS to REFUTE the always-pagan idea that God could only exist without being "father, mother (spirit) and sexually-generated son. This was much like the book of John who wrote to clear up many problems one being that Christianity was just a Jews sect. He also clears up the statement that Thomas called Jesus God: Jesus really said that He was the SON of god. John is usually dated to AD 90–110

John 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
John 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.


Holy Scripture was defined by Jesus as whatever was prophesied about Him. No one but John mentions Thomas' blurt:

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


Jesus minimizes Thomas' faith by saying:

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Thomas' statement was not based on faith and John follows up by correcting the misconceptions that Jesus WAS Jehovah-Elohim or Lord-God.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


This was written within a CONTEXT and again John makes it clear that Jesus was not God which aggitated the Jews who understood the Shema which Jesus affirmed;

The world then and now was filled with gods or the ELOHIM. However, Jehovah identified as the God of the Patriarchs was the ONLY TRUE god or elohim.

Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD OUR God is ONE LORD:
Deut. 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD THY God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deut. 6:6 And these WORDS, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:


Words or Dabar is Logos or God's REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE: God's Regulative Principle which EXCLUDES any words or ACTS you can invent is ONLY a person or people as Hermes-Mercury-Karios the god of thieves and liars..

John also emphasizes individualism and does not stress COMMUNITY. The Modern Judaizers speak of COMMUNITY which according to Shelly deprives individual the right to "Read, Interpret or Speak the Word outside of the COMMUNITY READING" which he defines as GROUP MENTALITY. Ritualistic "worship" especially Gorilla-pounding Senior Preaching Pastor who defines the GROUP MENTALITY. All of the "workshops" of underoccupied "scholars" is this JungleIsh attempt to tribalism or "plantationish."

Jesus claimed that He SPOKE ONLY WHAT HE HEARD FROM THE FATHER. The METHOD was wind, breath or spirit. Dianna's thread gives a hint at how God can live in our space-time through Jesus as the GATE from His existing in another dimension. Jesus was the Word ARTICULATED or made VISIBLE. Again, God's WORD is spelled W.O.R.D.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Feb 17, 2017 1:27 PM


 
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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)
107.77.161.1

Word is the regulative principle

February 17 2017, 1:20 PM 

To me group think stifles individual curiosity. When you are constantly told what to think and what not to read, your beliefs are programmed by others. This reminds me of Sunday school workbooks, which you are just going down the list answering questions. Our way of teaching needs to be reviewed, so we can encourage our children to stretch their God-given mind. Learning to think outside the coloring book lines is the greatest gift I have ever been given, hopefully we all can pass the knowledge about God and his will and ways to others!

 
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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)
107.77.173.7

The greatest gift

February 17 2017, 6:23 PM 

I should say the greatest gift to me is God sending his only begotten son for the forgiveness of sin. Thank you Lord Jesus Christ!

John 3:15-21 (KJV)
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The greatest gift

February 17 2017, 8:46 PM 

From the wilderness onward and momentarily restored was to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. Group Mind means that the senior pastor is THE authoritative teacher and the GROUP must comply or get damaged. To claim that the WORD needs "further interpretation" (outlawed by Peter) is blasphemy because it despises the Word.

You have just demonstrated PREACHING by quoting more than just a part of one verse. Peter goes beyond the fatal flaw of private interpretation or further expounding to warn that those who do not follow the PATTERN are false teachers. God sets traps and the written word was always recognized as having more authority than personal opinions.

That is why elders and preachers who are NOT APT are cultified into following the lessons from "headquarters" for fear of being removed from the circle of the approved. My observation is that most of the serfs just grin and bear it and know better and more TOLERATE than PARTICIPATE.

The WORD is that which God delivered to Jesus and it is the only resource for the one-piece pattern for those who are commanded to ASSEMBLE THEMSELVES. The school of Christ has a single purpose and cannot heap on all kinds of ministries of the Social Gospel. Madison failed because it forgot its first love to PREACH THE GOSPEL which includes all that is GOOD NEWS of Jesus who "set the prisoners free." What can the group think or TRIBALISTIC LEADER lusting to be Alpha Billy Goat (Capella) do to make the LITTLE FLOCK holy or sanctified so that they can come boldly before the throne of Grace because their spirits have been translated into a heavenly kingdom?

John 17:17 Sanctify them through THY TRUTH thy WORD is truth. [not a person]
John 17:18 As thou hast SENT ME into the world, even so have I also SENT THEM into the world.
John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through THEIR WORD;


God AS Word or LOGOS has no less power when honest teachers REPEAT only what has been delivered to them.

Jesus said that THY WORD is TRUTH or and was delivered as the Spirit OF Truth which is not a pagan spirit or "mother".

Jesus SPOKE the LOGOS which God begot when He "began" to SPEAK, is now the Apostles and our WORD OR LOGOS. However, My words are not GODS as the progressive "capture and hold" cultists claim for theirs.

Acts 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

Acts 10:36 The WORD which God sent unto the children of Israel, PREACHING peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the WORD, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


The only command to APT elders was to remove the Cunning Craftsmen or Sophists meaning "speakers, singers or instrument players" because by the WORD of Jesus as Holy Spirit THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

Only then can the elders TEACH THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT and reprove or silence those to reject THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT." Paul repeats the same PATTERN in Romans 14-15 and other places.



 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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