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What Did the Word (Logos) become???

January 25 2017 at 12:54 PM
Dave  (no login)
from IP address 66.112.162.15

The WORD became JESUS. John 1:14

The Word WAS God. John 1:1

Jesus, formerly the Word, was God.


If Jesus, formerly the Word, WAS God, then HE IS GOD. Infinity with God is just that...ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

Ken Sublett continues to believe that THE WORD was something that God just spoke. Whether it is or isn't, the fact remains.....THAT WORD became JESUS in the flesh. THAT WORD WAS/IS GOD!

No Donnie Cruz, YOU KNOW BETTER when you try to downplay John 1:1 as Jesus being another god. We have already had a Greek scholar to confirm this (Donnie Cruz and Ken Sublett are NOT Greek scholars). THIS IS THE SON OF GOD that we are speaking of. That is why His nature was to NOT sin, for He was the ONLY begotten Son of God. He was OF GOD and therefore GOD HIMSELF.

You can't understand that Jesus, being the Son of God, the Son of man, can still be God.

READ and BELIEVE

Philipians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CATHOLICISM. IT HAS TO DO WITH BELIEVING OR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD'S WORD.

Ken and Donnie. A nice reubttal here with blue/red and bigger font would be nice. Thank you ahead of time.

 
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AuthorReply
Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) Become?

January 25 2017, 9:37 PM 

Oh, I'm sure Donnie will accommodate Dave with mega-fonts as well as underlined and boldface text in multiple colors with multiple exclamation points, all composed between the hours of 2 and 5 AM.

And Ken will respond with his typically rambling, convoluted, excessively worded diatribes that will surely include something about infernal mythology and music-bashing, all peppered with his favorite phrases in red: "lying in wait to deceive," "liars and antichrists," and "the lake of fire."

happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) Become?

January 25 2017, 10:12 PM 

We have noted that John several decades later clears up any present or future twisting of Scripture. He notes that:

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jesus and others make it so clear that the Man Jesus was made to be the Son of God only after He was baptized.
Sarge keeps calling Jessu and everyone liars.
Liars are blasphemers.

Now any and all religious craftsman: speaker, singer or instrument player is a Sorcerer who HAD once deceived the whole world. They will be or are being CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

As far as we know, Sarge is not selling any of his body parts while pretending to represent Jesus, therefore it seems appropriate that he just be sentenced for a hundred years watching Duck Dynasty.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) Become?

January 25 2017, 10:51 PM 

Bill's favorite rebuttal? "Mega-fonts ... underlined and boldface text in multiple colors with exclamation points [!!!!!]...."

Plus, Bill just doesn't know what to do with these scriptures:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (I John 2:22, KJV)

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.... (I John 4:3, KJV)

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (II John 1:7, KJV)


Here's a summary of Bill's thinking:

1. That God is the Christ. Wrong!
2. That the Christ is God. Wrong!
3. That the conjunction "and" is missing between: (a) the Father and (b) the Son. Wrong!
4. That the Father "IS" the Son [substituting "is" for "and"]. Wrong!
5. That the Son "IS" the Father. Wrong!
6. That God is come in the flesh, instead of the LOGOS (the WORD) of God. Wrong!
7. That God sent Himself to earth as the prophesied Messiah. Wrong!
8. (We haven't even begun the Trinity's "Holy Ghost" being God.)


The discussion has just begun!

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) Become?

January 25 2017, 11:05 PM 

I commend Donnie for posting earlier than between 2 and 5 AM. He did so, knowing that I would have been on his case otherwise. happy.gif

Donnie's now expanding his palette with green text. All the multiple exclamation points still paint Donnie as a megalomaniacal religious fanatic, though. happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) Become?

January 25 2017, 11:54 PM 

Your rebuttal? You certainly can do better than that, Bill. sad.gif

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) Become?

January 26 2017, 9:48 AM 

Maybe someday Donnie will learn that we will just have to continue to agree to disagree, because we're not about to change each other's minds.

In the meantime, if Donnie continues to post earlier in the evenings, maybe he'll get the sleep that he's desperately needed for quite some time now. After all, long-term sleep deprivation makes people kinda crazy (and in some cases, maybe turns people into raving religious fanatics). happy.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Busting the Donnie Myths

January 25 2017, 11:36 PM 

1. That God is the Christ. Wrong!
Donnie utilizes man's logic to believe that if Jesus is God, then God is Jesus. Jesus came from God, is OF God, formerly the Logos. Jesus is God. John 1 verse 1 confirms this.
2. That the Christ is God. Wrong!
Donnie says wrong. God says RIGHT! John 1 verse 1
3. That the conjunction "and" is missing between: (a) the Father and (b) the Son. Wrong!
AND??? God and Jesus were separated because the Word became flesh. Therefore the Father and the Son.
4. That the Father "IS" the Son [substituting "is" for "and"].
John 1 verse says that the WORD WAS GOD. With God WAS can only be IS. What WAS means infinity before creation and therefore will always IS.
5. That the Son "IS" the Father. Wrong!
The Son is not the Father, the Son is God. Difference between Jesus being God and Jesus being the Father. Even now God is still the Father of Jesus, yet Jesus is God. One God???? OF COURSE.
6. That God is come in the flesh, instead of the LOGOS (the WORD) of God. Wrong!
Donnie says WRONG because Donnie denies the Word, but The Word (Logos) was God. The Word became flesh. THEREFORE...Jesus, formerly the Word, is God.
7. That God sent Himself to earth as the prophesied Messiah. Wrong!
No one is saying that God sent Himself, but a part of Himself. Any part of God IS GOD. No one else but Jesus can make that claim.
8. (We haven't even begun the Trinity's "Holy Ghost" being God.)
Can hardly wait.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Busting the Donnie Myths

January 26 2017, 12:16 AM 

Dave,

Your main problem is that you've made your conclusion first based on the pope's dogma, then your present your argument based on a faulty premise.

Do you honestly believe that the Christ is God? Read Acts 2:26 -- it was God who made Jesus the Crucified BOTH Lord and Christ.

No, Dave, God sent His only begotten Son. Remember John 3:16? The Sender is not the one sent.

What was the gender of "The LOGOS OF GOD" ("THE WORD OF GOD") before becoming flesh?

Maybe you should practice saying: "the LOGOS of God" -- say a hundred times a day [happy.gif]



_______________________

The correct reference should be Acts 2:36 -- preceding "Repent and be baptized" sad.gif


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Jan 26, 2017 12:25 AM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) become???

January 25 2017, 11:51 PM 

Dave, let's discuss John 1:1 first.

I recall from the Jehovah's Witnesses thread that you quoted an article from a Greek professor. Right! A scholar? Plus, your capacity to ignore and reject the history and origin of the pagan-influenced, Catholic-and-Roman-Emperor-invented Trinity dogma. Maybe a study of the paganistic Roman culture during the era of the establishment of the New Testament church and its spread from Jerusalem to Rome and other parts of the region -- I believe will help you understand the man-made dogma that you embrace with passion. Keep in mind that even the Restoration Movement leaders did not embrace and teach the papal doctrine of "the Trinity."

Yes, it has much to do with Roman Catholicism. It looks like Martin Luther's Reformation Movement of the Roman Catholic Church with his 95 Theses did not go far enough with doctrinal cleansing.

Just so we're discussing this thread in a more structured format, let's discuss John 1:1-14 first. Factors involved are the original New Testament Greek text, translators, Greek grammatical rules, English grammatical rules (capitalization, punctuation marks, the definite article "the" and word order).

Here's the original word-for-word N.T. Greek text of John 1:1 with no capitalization:

N.T. Greek: en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

English: in original was the saying and the saying was toward the god and god was the saying.


Dave,

1. There are 3 clauses in the passage;
2. In the 1st clause, "ho logos": "logos" is preceded by a definite article "the";
3. In the 2nd clause, "ho logos" and "ton theon": it's both "the word" and "the god";
4. In the 3rd clause, "theos" and "ho logos": "the word" is no longer "the god";
5. In the text, "the god" refers to the the only one true God (the Father) in contrast to "god" without the definite article "the" which refers to any god other than the "Supreme Being."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Notice that morphe means an image of the WORD or LOGOS

January 26 2017, 12:09 AM 

Sarge is right up there with the theological Generals! He just takes snippets out of the body of a goat and says that it is a deer. THAT'S the Pattern of those FOREORDAINED who can never either try or succeed in reading BLACK text on WHITE paper. They just can't stop accusing God with being Ignorant for not commanding:

Singing to one another or all of the others with that which is written by Limpy the Praise singer.

Sarge doesn't know a single SCHOLAR who can grasp that SPEAK is not defined as the opposite of ODE as one of those "enchantment" black arts.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Notice that morphe means an image of the WORD or LOGOS

January 26 2017, 12:26 AM 

Sarge: The WORD became JESUS. John 1:14

The Scriptures:

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
1. the glory AS OF the only begotten of the Father,)
2. FULL of grace and TRUTH.


If Jesus was FULL of TRUTH or the WORD then He could not BE that WORD. Jesus was BEGOTTEN of the FATHER therefore for we DISCIPLES that means that Jesus was NOT the Father.

1. As Of Marks "parables to fool those without a right to know". The Word was made flesh when Jesus SPOKE the Word. Words simply don't become human bodies.

2. The Grace OF God hath appeared TEACHING US. Jesus was the embodiment of Word and Grace but neither are members of a FAMILY of Gods.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy TRUTH: thy WORD is truth.


Word and Truth have the same meaning: there is no God person named Word and there is no god person named Truth.

Eph. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the WORD OF TRUTH, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


The WORD of Truth is the Gospel: there is no God person named Gospel.

And let all of the CHRISTIANS say:

Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is ONE God; and there is NONE OTHER BUT HE:


Jesus the Man said that there is just ONE GOD and He did not say "I AM that one god." I'm sorry about those strong delusions marked by religious observations TO WHICH the Kingdom does not come.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Notice that morphe means an image of the WORD or LOGOS

January 26 2017, 12:31 AM 

Ken, did you mean "Dave" instead of "Sarge"? [I think Dave is a Clemson Tigers fan and Sarge a Crimson Tide fan.]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Notice that morphe means an image of the WORD or LOGOS

January 26 2017, 1:12 AM 

I have never been good at those multiple personalities type.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

KDV.....Ken and Donnie's Version

January 26 2017, 12:49 AM 

Donnie said "Yes, it has much to do with Roman Catholicism."

I could care less what you call it Donnie. John 1 verse 1 is the Word. You can smear it with any platform you choose. Bring on Martin Luther and his 95 papers or whatever. I don't need to see it. I believe ONLY what the Word of God says. You are trying to smear those translators who translated that Greek text because you believe that they had a bias. Those KJV translators were not Inspired authors, but they were LED by God to do His bidding. No one needs your added translation.
"In John 1:1 there is no definite article in front of the word ‘God’ in the phrase, ‘and the Word was God’. However, in this instance, it cannot just be assumed that the word ‘God’ is meant to be ‘indefinite’, and therefore an indefinite article used in the English translation. Because the first use of the word ‘God’ in John 1:1 (‘the Word was with God’) clearly refers to the Only True God, the Eternal Pre-existent Creator, more than likely John would have used a different Greek construction than he did if he had meant for this next phrase (‘and the Word was God’) to refer to a ‘lesser’ god, and did not want us to confuse this with the True God he had just mentioned. If John meant to avoid confusion, when making such a definitive statement, he could have done so by using this ‘indefinite pronoun’ (‘tis’) as an adjective. This would have made it clear that the Word was ‘a certain god’, but not the one he was just referring to. For examples of this, see the verses Mark 14:51, Luke 8:27, Luke 1:5, and Luke 11:1 (among many, many other examples). So, it seems that by the Greek grammatical structure in this statement, John is indicating that the Word (Jesus Christ - John 1:14) is the same essence and nature as God the Father." James White, Greek Professor.

John 1
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Donnie, we know that the author John is speaking of the Logos here. The Truth being said here is that Only One True God was mentioned in Genesis as the Creator. The Logos is ALSO being spoken of here in John 1 as the CREATOR. THEREFORE....Jesus is God. Deny it if you will. No one will ever force you to believe the Truth. Ever.

You

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: KDV.....Ken and Donnie's Version

January 26 2017, 1:33 AM 

I just told you that:

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
1. the glory AS OF the only begotten of the Father,)
2. FULL of grace and TRUTH [WORD]


Word or LOGOS is God's Regulative or Governing Principle because God SPEAKS and things become. A Beings Regulative Principle became visible and audible in the same sense that Light is reflected off something to make it visible. God is Love but Love is not a "god" other than in paganism. God is Righteousness but righteousness is not another god.

The Word made flesh was IN the "only begotten" Son OF the Father. The FATHER is the THINKING or CONCEIVING attribute of Jehovah-Elohim or LORD as the only true ELOHIM. Jesus begotten as a MAN was filled or INspirited with the WORD when the Father breathed (spirit) into the Son. God IS LIGHT: Jesus REFLECTED or made that Light visible. God is WORD: Jesus articulated or sounded forth the WORD which means "That which one SPEAKS in order to make a sentence."

You cannot be FULL of WORD and also BE the WORD. The WORD means W.O.R.D.S as what one speaks EXCLUSIVE of "personal opinions, personal experiences, poetry, singing, playing instrument or acting. The Purpose Driven Church is to TEACH that which has been taught. Father speaks of the "teacher" and Son speaks of one who hears and obeys and then speaks.

Full of the SPIRIT in Ephesians 4 is "The WORD OF Christ Dwelling IN YOU. We can be full of the WORD but that doesn't make us GOD.

John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.

And they all say as a SALVATION ISSUE:

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the MAN Christ Jesus;


Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT is the mediator-intercessor and HE speaks God's WORDS to we mortals.





 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Speak That Which is Written WITHOUT Personal Opinion

January 26 2017, 9:08 AM 

Ken, If you choose to bury your head in the ground like an ostrich, then that is Ken. The LOGOS, or WORD, is DIFFERENT from God's Words. God spoke many Words, but there is only ONE WORD, which is the Logos, that became Jesus in the flesh. One Word, One God. That is why God is the creator (Exodus) and Jesus, formerly the Word, was also the Creator (john 1). Why were they both the Creator??? BECAUSE.....Jesus is God. No, Jesus is not the Father, He is the Son of God. Ken, you said "I just told you that:.."

THAT is the problem! YOU told me that. What you say and what God says is not the same.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: What Did the Word (Logos) become???

January 26 2017, 9:33 AM 

What a word MEANS is determined by how it is used in the languages at the time the glorified Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT inspired the writers. By researching the literature--and I have done lots--LOGOS is used of a person in the MYTHS only of Hermes-Mercury-Kairos as the ANTI Jesus. John used the word very late to debunk the ancient and modern HERMES as the now father of the NEW HERMENEUTICS which is ANTICHRISTIAN,

Probably MOST of the time the words and concepts of Scripture is to DEBUNK pagan religionism. Once you have destroyed the Laden Burdens and Burden Laters Jesus does NOT replace it with new dogmas, clergy or OBSERVATIONS to which the kingdom does not come. Jesus MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God and He is FILLED with the Word. If you can find LOGOS used other to refute a god named Logos then post away. If a preacher is FILLED WITH THE WORD He is filled with SPIRIT and the only thing that can come out of his mouth is WORD.

The Command is INCLUSIVE AND EXCLUSIVE that anyone who speaks for God gives WATER of the WORD free of charge: in the Christian System that is the Prophets and Apostles:

Is. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this WORD [Dabar-Logos],
it is because there is no LIGHT in them.

I posted a long list to prove that WORD is what one SPEAKS or READS. Every descriptor possible IS God but these are not members of the Family of Gods which fuels the urge, as locally, to CHANGE the name to remove Christ from the public confession.

God IS LIGHT but Jesus is the REFLECTOR and not the SUN.

I have the LINKED TEXT of this exclusive list of HOW Little Aaron in a more civilized society would be taught beginning at about age 5 at synagogue schools. I have to repeat, repeat so that readers don't get the veil pulled over their eyes.

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Not Merely a Word

January 26 2017, 10:47 AM 

Ken, Jesus is not just a word that God spoke. Jeus IS the Word.

You take, from the Scriptures, what is NOT there. You can't do it. You can try, but to no avail.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Not Merely a Word

January 26 2017, 12:43 PM 

It should be easy to find WORD which is not SPOKEN or READ. You cannot READ Jesus and you cannot SPEAK Jesus.

The only begotten SON is FILLED with the WORD so there is no room for Him to speak on His own.

If preachers filled up with the WORD or SPIRIT it would not be possible to speak those abominations about themselves and their control of the SERFS.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I SPEAK these things.
John 8:38 I SPEAK that which I have seen with my Father: and ye DO that which ye have seen with your father.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I SPEAK therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the WORDS that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that DWELLETH in me, he doeth the works.
John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.


If the Father DWELLS IN Jesus as the Thought and Breath and Word the the DWELLED IN is not the INDWELLER.

The Father as Thought and Breath and Word also DWELLS IN US if we keep His commandments.

 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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