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The Evolving Creed of the Progressive Church of Christ

January 27 2017 at 1:43 PM
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The current preacher has now been at Madison for about two years. The creed left behind by Jason Shepherd is still intact. The eldership is reduced to a core of about six people, most of whom have a long record of Church of Christ membership. Much of what is said is definitely not traditional with Churches of Christ. Other parts are traditional, but the creed itself betrays the early open attitude of the Restoration leaders. The following is the current creed of the Madison Church as reflected in “What We Believe” under Some of these points are in keeping with the historical Restoration, but many are a betrayal.

1. The Bible is not only morally and theologically is perfect, but it is infallible scientifically and historically. Nothing is said about the symbolic and figurative statements in the Old and New Testaments.

2. The steps toward salvation are (1) grace, (2) repentance, (3) faith, and (4) cross of Calvary. This is apparently their four step plan.

3. The Trinity as defined in traditional Protestantism is affirmed, with no latitude is given to those who disagree with Madison.

4. “Water” baptism is by immersion, but it is impotent, being only a command. Notice it is not part of their four-step plan. They state nothing about baptism and remission of sins.

5. Communion is an observance as an expression of worship–no sacramental blessing are said to be attributed to it. Nothing is said about the blessings inherent in the Lord’s Supper. Their high church language refers to the Lord’s Supper as Communion.

6. The primary function of the church, as they see it, is to socialize, although it is states to be “share life together.” There is no salvific (saving) function of the church. They state that the church encourages one another and serves the community.

7. Tithing belongs to the Lord. That 10 percent is His. Yet it is to be given “willingly.”

8. The resurrection is affirmed.

9. The virgin birth is affirmed.

10. The Spirit-filled life “empowers” us to live counter-culturally, they say. We strive to live holy lives as an expression of faith.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: The Evolving Creed of the Progressive Church of Christ

January 27 2017, 2:15 PM 

Do you believe that creed is LU derived?

How does this fit with Post Modernism?

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Re: The Evolving Creed of the Progressive Church of Christ

January 27 2017, 2:28 PM 

Many who are graduates from LU no longer plan to send their kids there.

Others wander why Churches of Christ are sending buses to their lectures.

I would place LU as an evangelical college, separate from Churches of Christ.

Post Modernism as I see it is the rejection of doctrinal models built from the past. With post moderns everything is subject to overhaul and there is little loyalty to institutions including their home church of origin.

Post Modernism can be understood best as Deconstructionism, where models of the past are torn down. This means that every doctrinal conviction of past generations is under suspicion. When you hear "post modern" think "deconstruction."

The only way to counter this movement, in my opinion, is to renew the in-depth study of the Scripture. Today, few people have enough depth to begin that encounter with the Scripture, or the Word.

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Re: The Evolving Creed of the Progressive Church of Christ

January 27 2017, 2:34 PM 

I did notice the last issue of The Gospel Advocate emphasized the historically close relationship between Freed Hardeman University and The Gospel Advocate. This is an inference that The Gospel Advocate and LU are not on the same page. Madison has a close connection with LU, but both are influenced by Post Modernism as it is reflected in their Deconstructive manner.

On a brighter note, some of the PM advocates have left their home church to go to a community church, only to find that church endorsed gay marriage, so they left and went back to a church closer to their raising.

To Madison's credit, their creed does refer to "counter-cultural" behavior. We need morality, regardless of the direction from which it comes.

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4, 5, or 6

January 29 2017, 8:57 AM 

Four, Five or Six STEPS to Salvation. The STEPS have been a mainstay and source of great debate at CM. Script has revealed yet another STEP. Here we go again!

Many people are looking for “steps to salvation.” People like the idea of an instruction manual with five steps that, if followed, will result in salvation. An example of this is Islam with its Five Pillars. According to Islam, if the Five Pillars are obeyed, salvation will be granted. Because the idea of a step-by-step process to salvation is appealing, many in the Christian community make the mistake of presenting salvation as a result of a step-by-step process. Roman Catholicism has seven sacraments. Various Christian denominations add baptism, public confession, turning from sin, speaking in tongues, etc., as steps to salvation. But the Bible only presents one step to salvation. When the Philippian jailer asked Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” Paul responded, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:30-31).

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Ken Sublett
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Doctor Jay Guin and Sareg Sarge are blind and cannot see.

January 29 2017, 12:20 PM 

Sarge and the progressives belong to the Progressive Church of Christ: They have progressed back to Babylon and are not able to report on Romans 10 or on Walter Scott. They do not grasp that the Word is the LOGOS meaning the PATTERN or PARADIGM which is the NARROW ROAD of the Way that is called a Sect.

2Pet. 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pet. 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2Pet. 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2Pet. 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Truth is Logos or Pattern: Sarge-Guin REFUTE.
2Pet. 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
2Pet. 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
2Pet. 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
2Pet. 1:16 For we have not followed [DOCTRINE] cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Paul says of the Cunning Craftsmen or Sophists (self-speakers, singers or instrument players) that THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

They are lying about Scripture and Walter Scott to make the foolishl follow the foolish..
They are Lying also because Instrumental Noise was the Bible-recorded way to SET AN AMBUSH.

I will post Jay Guin's Fable, the the TRUE Walter Scott and then Romans 10. Don't worry if you cannot read ALL of Romans 10 and compare it to what Paul wrote to ALL of the Churches as what Jesus of Nazareth as HOLY SPIRIT guided him into all truth. The progressives reject the epistles other than to use it as war clubs.

[linked image]

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Re: Doctor Jay Guin and Sareg Sarge are blind and cannot see.

January 29 2017, 3:08 PM 

For those who say there is one step, i.e. belief:

Then why did Paul say that individuals seeking to be forgiven of crucifying Jesus, would also have to repent? Read Acts 2 carefully, and also Luke 3.

What about Romans 2:4 which says that God's grace leads us to repentance?

"Repent" includes not only "changing one's mind" but "accepting God's will" and acting on it.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Doctor Jay Guin and Sareg Sarge are blind and cannot see.

January 29 2017, 3:23 PM 

Those who spout saved by grace through faith are never bright enough to read the first part of Ephesians 2 and ask: "Saved from WHAT"?

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Re: Doctor Jay Guin and Sareg Sarge are blind and cannot see.

January 29 2017, 3:29 PM 

Wonderful comment. This illuminates the chapter.

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Re: Doctor Jay Guin and Sareg Sarge are blind and cannot see.

January 29 2017, 4:20 PM 

Here's a creed from the Heritage Church of Christ, Franklin, TN.

Notice it's much less assuming, but does have some creedal aspects. It's much more guarded than Madison's and less vulnerable to false teaching.

The Beginning.


There is one God, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit dwelling in and empowering God’s people.

The Bible is the inspired and complete word of God, a proven guide to our personal lives.

The Bible teaches us about God, sin, and Jesus, our Savior.

The Bible teaches us about His church, how to become a member, and how to live and serve in its fellowship.

The Bible teaches us about the blessings of living the Godly life, about our heavenly reward and how to secure it.


It's not clear from #1 if God and His Son also indwells in us along with the Holy Spirit. Why choose this to be one of their five point, I'm not sure why.

One 1 to 5 scale let's mark Heritage about a 1.5 in terms of evolvement toward progressivism. Madison will rank about 4.5. They're just about there.

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Re: Doctor Jay Guin and Sareg Sarge are blind and cannot see.

January 29 2017, 8:55 PM 

Why so specific about FSHS but general about Bible shows how divisive this issue is. And how they cling to it. This is a potential bad sign. Why even have a creed. Fellows, why do you have a creed at all. Mt Juliette stays away from creed even more, to their credit. I plan to review them the next few days.

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Re: 4, 5, or 6

January 29 2017, 9:14 PM 

Sarge, we are aware of the difficulties of "step" thinking. But we also know there are many who think they believe and are saved--but there is no fruit on their tree. We also respect the Biblical teachings about the EFFICACY of baptism, repentance, Lord's Supper, and the Church.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: 4, 5, or 6

January 29 2017, 10:26 PM 

Sarge etal use "steips" to disparage those who understand that it is pretty hard to do anything without a logical series of stages. If you want to get married you don't just believe in that beautiful girl. If Jay wants to do your taxes he must follow a clear pattern.. The Assembly or School of Christ is called the WAY that is called a SECT. It is a very narrow, EXCLUSIVE path and fools won't stumble into it by believing that Jesus exists. For instance you must believe that Jesus is the SON of the Living God and Jay and Sarge know that no one refutes that.

Jay Guin among others mocks Scott:Five Steps

Did you notice that went through all this material about how to be saved and didn’t mention the Five-Step Plan of Salvation? It’s not that I disagree all that much. Rather, I just think it helps to see salvation in terms of faith — which is how the New Testament teaches it — so that we aren’t constrained by tradition. It helps to sometimes see familiar things from a new perspective. It might even help us understand our traditions better.

For example, in the Five-Step Plan, we manage to get all the way through it and not mention Jesus: Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, Be Baptized. Not a word about Jesus — not until we take the trouble to define our terms.

Jay wants you to believe that the LEGALISTS just preach five steps and never preach the gospel. He wants you to believe that no one is asked the question "Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God God." He wants you to believe that the STEPS or a LOGICAL sequence is not necessary because we are saved just by BELIEVING whereas FAITH or faithfulness demands COMPLIANCE. Scott was teaching youth and pointing to his fingers is similar to many who make several points. They do not teach or preach by just saying "step 1, 2,3,4,5" and neither did Scott.

Jay just repeats the hateful charge without ever having read Scott. It is easy to even lie and spread the venom. It is not scholarly to think that any Church of Christ scholar would leave out Jesus.

Walter Scott: Three steps of human action:
1. Faith to change the heart. A deep trust. : This is more than just agreeing something is true. It involves commitment and deep trust. It's something we build our lives around. We believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the Living God and is our Lord and Savior.
2. Repentance to change the life. We recognize that we have missed the mark, have separated and alienated ourselves from God and from our fellow human being, and by doing this have disobeyed God. We confess this freely and vow to turn from this way of living.
3. Baptism to change the state. We offer ourselves for baptism by immersion. This represents our death (to old self), burial, and resurrection (to a new life in Jesus Christ). This is also reminiscent of the baptism of Jesus in the Jordan River by John the Baptizer.
Two steps are from God AFTER we have been baptized.

No one suggests that we just trust in ou obedience by being baptized. God responds only to those obey:

4. Remission of sins to cleanse the guilt.
5. The gift of the Holy Spirit to make one a participant in the Divine Nature.

Scott defined "the gift of the holy spirit" as OUR spirit which is A holy spirit after "our sins have been washed away." Peter calls this A good conscience.


Rom. 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise,
......say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven?
......(that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom. 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Rom 10:8 But what saith it?
......The WORD (pattern) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth,
......and in thy heart: that is,
......the word of FAITH,
......which we PREACH;

Rom 10:9 That if thou
......shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
......and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart
......that God hath RAISED him from the DEAD,
......thou shalt be saved. [Jay says HAVE BEEN]

Rom 10:10 For with the heart believeth unto righteousness; and
......with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Faith makes a God fearing person have the right standing: not ceremonially impure
But, Confession is unto salvation. Faith only would not save you says this verse.

belief, call upon the name, must believe, must hear, preachers must be sent:
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith,
...... Whosoever BELIEVETH [pistis means comply] on him
......shall NOT be ASHAMED.
Now, NOT ASHAMED is not the opposite of BEING SAVED (by faith only).

Rom 10:12 For there is NO DIFFERENCE between the Jew and the Greek:
Rom 10:13 for the SAME Lord over all is rich unto all THAT CALL UPON HIM.
......For whosoever shall CALL upon the NAME of the Lord shall be saved.

Peter preached this in Acts 2: God calls us and we call upon the name of the Lord to be saved. When they asked what must WE DO to be saved, Peter commanded them to repent AND be baptized FOR or in order to the remission of sins.


......Example One. Acts 2:38 baptism is into the NAME or calling upon the name.
......Example Two. Acts 22:16 Baptism washes away sins because it CALLS upon the Name.
......Example Three: 1 Pe 3:21 Baptism saves because it ASKS for A good conscience or A holy spirit.

How then shall they call on him in whom
...... they have not BELIEVED? and

...... how shall they believe in him of whom they have not HEARD? and
...... how shall they hear without a PREACHER (Kerusso Herald)? Rom 10:14


Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach (Go and herald),
...... except they be sent? as it is written,
...... How beautiful are the FEET of them that
...... preach the gospel of peace, and BRING glad tidings of good things
But they have
......not all OBEYED the GOSPEL. For Esaias saith, Lord,
...... who hath BELIEVED our report? Rom 10:16
So then FAITH cometh by HEARING, and hearing by the WORD of God. Rom 10:17
But I say, Have they not heard?
......Yes verily, their sound WENT INTO all the earth,
......and their words unto the ends of the world. Rom 10:18
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. Rom 10:19
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was MADE MANIFEST unto them that asked not after me. Rom 10:20
But to Israel he saith,
......All day long I have stretched forth my HANDS
......unto a DISOBEDIENT and GAINSAYING people. Rom 10:21

You are an APISTOS or believeth not which means treacherous if you do not believe that
He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE saved.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jan 29, 2017 10:36 PM

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: 4, 5, or 6

January 30 2017, 1:38 AM 

Sarge, would you please provide the source of the brief article you posted above on Jan. 29?

Do you really agree with the writer? He said:

But the Bible only presents one step to salvation. When the Philippian jailer asked Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” Paul responded, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:30-31).

The one-step to salvation = "believe"? That excludes baptism in order to receive remission of sins? If you agree with the one-step salvation by only believing, then I think we should discuss it. If not, would you further explain?

Sarge, I would be interested in your congregation's "What We Believe" page. Would you do a copy-and-paste of the page's text without identifying the name and location of your congregation? [We know you'd like to maintain that info as personal.] Thanks in advance.

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Donnie's Request

January 30 2017, 10:56 AM 

We are currently looking for a Local Church. This one is high on the list.


The Scriptures

We believe that the Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired, and is a perfect treasure of heavenly instruction; that it has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter; that it reveals the principles by which God will judge us; and therefore is, and shall remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions should be tried.
The True God

We believe that there is one, and only one, living and true God, an infinite, intelligent Spirit, whose name is JEHOVAH, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of heaven and earth; inexpressibly glorious in holiness; and worthy of all possible honor, confidence, and love; revealed under the personal and relative distinctions of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; equal in every divine perfection, and executing distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption.
The Fall of Man

We believe that man was created in a state of holiness, under the law of his Maker; but by voluntary transgression fell from that holy and happy state; in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners, not by constraint but choice, being by nature utterly void of that holiness required by the law of God, wholly given to the gratification of the world, of Satan, and of their own sinful passions, therefore under just condemnation to eternal ruin, without defense or excuse.
The Way of Salvation

We believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace; through the Mediatorial Offices of the Son of God, who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon Him our nature, yet without sin; honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and made atonement for our sins by His death; being risen from the dead He is now enthroned in heaven; and uniting in His wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfections, He is every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and an all-sufficient Savior.

We believe that the great Gospel blessing which Christ of His fullness bestows on such as believe in Him, is Justification; that Justification consists in the pardon of sin and the promise of eternal life, on principles of righteousness; that it is bestowed not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done, but solely through His own redemption and righteousness, by virtue of which faith His perfect righteousness is freely imputed to us of God; that it brings us into a state of most blessed peace and favor with God, and secures every other blessing needful for time and eternity.
The Freeness of Salvation

We believe that the blessings of salvation are made free to all by the Gospel; that it is the immediate duty of all to accept them by a cordial, penitent, and obedient faith; and that nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner on earth except his own inherent depravity and voluntary refusal to submit to the Lord Jesus Christ which refusal will subject him to an aggravated condemnation.
Grace in Regeneration

We believe that in order to be saved, we must be regenerated or born again; that regeneration consists in giving a holy disposition to the mind; and is effected in a manner above our comprehension or calculation, by the power of the Holy Spirit, in connection with divine truth, so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the Gospel; and that its proper evidence is found in the holy fruit which we bring forth to the glory of God.

Repentance and Faith

We believe that Repentance and Faith are sacred duties, and also inseparable graces, wrought in our souls by the regenerating Spirit of God; whereby being deeply convinced of our guilt, danger, and helplessness, and of the way of salvation by Christ, we turn to God with unfeigned contrition, confession, and supplication for mercy; at the same time heartily receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Prophet, Priest, and King, and relying on Him alone as the only and all-sufficient Savior.
God’s Purpose of Grace

We believe that election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners; that being perfectly consistent with the free agency of man, it comprehends all the means in connection with the end; that it is a most glorious display of God’s sovereign goodness, being infinitely free, wise, holy, and unchangeable; that it utterly excludes boasting, and promotes humility, love, prayer, praise, trust in God, and active imitation of His free mercy; that it encourages the use of means in the highest degree; that it is ascertained by its effects in all who truly believe the Gospel; that it is the foundation of Christian assurance; and that to ascertain it with regard to ourselves, demands and deserves our utmost diligence.

We believe that Sanctification is the process by which, according to the will of God, we are made partakers of His holiness; that it is a progressive work; that it is begun in regeneration; and that it is carried on in the hearts of believers by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, the Sealer and Comforter, in the continual use of the appointed means – especially the Word of God, self-examination, self-denial, watchfulness, and prayer.

The Perseverance of Saints

We believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from mere professors; that a special Providence watches over their welfare; and that they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
The Harmony of the Law and the Gospel

We believe that the Law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of His moral government; that it is holy, just and good; and that the inability which the Scriptures ascribe to fallen men to fulfill its precepts, arises entirely from their love of sin; to deliver them from which, and to restore them through a Mediator to unfeigned obedience to the holy law, is one great end of the Gospel, and of the means of grace connected with the establishment of the visible Church.

A Gospel Church

We believe that a visible Church of Christ is a congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the Gospel; observing the ordinances of Christ; governed by His laws; and exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His word; that its only proper officers are Bishops or Pastors, and Deacons, whose qualifications, claims, and duties are defined in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus.

Baptism and the Lord’s Supper

We believe that Christian Baptism is the immersion of a believer in water, in the name of the Father, and Son, and Spirit, to show forth in a solemn and beautiful emblem, our faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Savior, with its purifying power; that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a church relation; and to the Lord’s Supper, in which the members of the church, by the sacred use of bread and wine, are to commemorate together the dying love of Christ; preceded always by solemn self-examination.
The Christian Sabbath

We believe that the first day of the week is the Lord’s Day. It is a day to be regularly observed and should include exercises of worship and spiritual devotion, both public and private. Actions performed on the Lord’s Day are to be governed by the Christian’s conscience under the Lordship of Jesus Christ as revealed in the Scripture and in harmony with the convictions of the corporate local church.
Civil Government

We believe that civil government is of divine appointment, for the interests and good order of human society; and that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored, and obeyed, except only in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the only Lord of the conscience, and the Prince of the kings of the earth.
The Righteous and the Wicked

We believe that there is a radical and essential difference between the righteous and the wicked; that such only as through faith are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and sanctified by the Spirit of our God, are truly righteous in His esteem; while all such as continue in impenitence and unbelief are in His sight wicked, and under the curse; and this distinction holds among men both in and after their death.
The World to Come

We believe that the end of this world is approaching: that at the last day, Christ will descend from heaven, and raise the dead from the grave to final retribution; that a solemn separation will then take place; that the wicked will be adjudged to endless punishment, and the righteous to endless joy and that this judgment will fix forever the final state of men in heaven or hell, on principle of righteousness.
The Family and Sexuality

God has ordained the family as the foundational institution of human society. It is composed of persons related to one another by marriage, blood, or adoption.

Marriage is the uniting of one man and one woman in covenant commitment for a lifetime. The ultimate purpose of marriage is to glorify God and manifest God’s power, wisdom, and beauty in the earth. It is impossible for two person of the same gender to be married. This type of union is averse to God’s Word and does not constitute a true marriage.

Marriage is God’s unique gift to reveal the union between Christ and His church and to provide for the man and the woman in marriage the framework for intimate companionship, the channel of sexual expression according to biblical standards, and the means for procreation of the human race.

The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in God’s image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to His people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation.

Children, from the moment of conception, are a blessing and heritage from the Lord. Parents are to demonstrate to their children God’s pattern for marriage. Parents are to teach their children spiritual and moral values and to lead them, through consistent lifestyle example and loving discipline, to make choices based on biblical truth. Children are to honor and obey their parents.

Heterosexuality is God’s revealed will for humankind. A chaste and faithful expression of this orientation (whether in singleness or in marriage) is the ideal to which God calls all people.

A homosexual orientation is a result of the fall of humanity into a sinful condition that pervades every person. Whatever biological or familial roots of homosexuality may be discovered, these do not sanction or excuse homosexual behavior, though they would deepen one’s compassion and patience for those who are struggling to be free from sexual temptations. Any attempt to change one’s gender or any disagreement with one’s biological gender is sinful and offensive to God.

Genesis 1:26-28; 2:15-25; 3:1-20; Exodus 20:12; Leviticus 18:1-30; Deuteronomy 6:4-9; Joshua 24:15; 1 Samuel 1:26-28; Psalm 51:5; 78:1-8; 127; 128; 139:13-16; Proverbs 1:8; 5:15-20; 6:20-22; 12:4; 13:24; 14:1; 17:6; 18:22; 22:6, 15; 23:13-14; 24:3; 29:15, 17; 31:10-31; Ecclesiastes 4:9-12; 9:9; Malachi 2:14-16; Matthew 5:31-32; 18:2-5; 19:3-9; Mark 10:6-12; Romans 1:18-32; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:9; 7:1-16; Ephesians 5:21-33; 6:1-4; Colossians 3:19-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8; 1 Timothy 5:8, 14; 2 Timothy 1:3-5; Titus 2:3-5; Hebrews 13:4; 1 Peter 3:1-7

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Donnie's Request

January 30 2017, 11:57 PM 


The above appears to be a copy of a church's "manual" instead of a web page. happy.gif Regardless, would you confirm that this is a "What We Believe" version of the local church where you attend?

You stated at the outset: "We are currently looking for a Local Church. This one is high on the list." You've said before that you kid a lot. You're kidding now, right?

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Donnie's Request

January 31 2017, 12:27 AM 

Sarge: We believe that Christian Baptism is the immersion of a believer in water, in the name of the Father, and Son, and Spirit, to show forth in a solemn and beautiful emblem, our faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Savior, with its purifying power; that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a church relation; and to the Lord’s Supper, in which the members of the church, by the sacred use of bread and wine, are to commemorate together the dying love of Christ; preceded always by solemn self-examination.

The Holy Spirit OF Christ speaking through Peter says that Baptism is God's INSTRUMENTAL MEANS. We OBEY a form of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Required to Ask for the Remission of Sins. Remission of sins is never by faith only.

[linked image]

That old reading 101a problem for those who do not OBEY THE GOSPEL.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


January 30 2017, 10:28 AM 

[linked image]

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January 31 2017, 8:12 PM 

"That old reading 101a problem for those who do not OBEY THE GOSPEL."

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Keb Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Negatory

January 31 2017, 9:34 PM 

Sarge's Calvinist Dogma: We believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace; through the Mediatorial Offices of the Son of God, who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon Him our nature, yet without sin; honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and made atonement for our sins by His death; being risen from the dead He is now enthroned in heaven; and uniting in His wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfections, He is every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and an all-sufficient Savior.

Baptism is AUTO-TUPOS or Instead of being crucified for our own sins and still not receive A holy spirit and be admitted into the School of Christ. There is no Grace for those who do not REQUEST what Jesus offers as the ONLY activity connected with the remission of sins and receiving A good conscience, consciousness or a Co-perception of the Word of Christ. We are washed WITH water INTO the WORD or into the School of Christ. Grace teaches us HOW TO APPLY but Grace does not make one a student admitted to the most gracious SCHOOL OF THE SPIRIT in the universe. People who write creeds probably don't know the meaning of Grace since they intend to SELL their own WORDS or corrupt THE WORD.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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