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God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

February 16 2017 at 4:34 PM
Dianna Howell   (Login dianna01)
from IP address

I was reading the post this morning, and wanted to put my thoughts on paper about God and his son Jesus Christ. I hope y'all don't mind my sharing. If anyone has anything to add please do so. I pray we all can come to a better understanding! Excuse any bad punctuation. I was just writing as I was thinking.

God had a plan or idea=father
Idea into existence human Jesus=son

Prophecy fulfilled which proves God is true. Man cannot save himself, and needed to be shown the way to true life. This is the role that Jesus was created for as a servant.

God is thought idea mind
Jesus is word body
Spirit is breath

Man has a body
" Spirit
". Breath of life. (We aren't God)

What if there is another reality-spiritual realm-man cannot see this but he can think about it, which we are told to to think about spiritual things and not things of this world. God is spirit and man cannot see spirit as we are still in the human realm and in a body. God has reached thru this barrier many times in the past as the scriptures attest. He chose this last age to reach thru by a mediator who has been given all authority, because he, Jesus, is the image of God. He would be what God would look like if he had a body.

Perhaps the conflict comes from the nature of Jesus. If we think about when our parents conceive us as children. Who puts the spirit inside that baby? That would be God. He also sparks this breath of life. The miraculous birth of Jesus is not a sexual act, but an act of creation. This is the miracle! Mary was a vessel, but God sparked the birth, a fully human baby, using Mary's seed as a genetic relative of Abraham. Who grows and experiences the same human frailties that we do, yet remains sinless. How can you know what someone suffers, unless you walk in their shoes? This is a lesson to us on empathy. How can we complain about our life when there is always someone else who has suffered worse. We show the kingdom inside of us when we can serve and have empathy with others who are less fortunate.

Jesus is fully human, and he has a spirit. We must always keep in mind that he came as a servant to mankind, and was crucified, but the spirit never dies. Just as when we die, our flesh goes to dust, but our spirit returns to God in the spiritual realm. Perhaps this realm in actuality is side by side with ours. Kind of like a parallel universe? Jesus came to show us as the mediator between man and God. He is now in a spiritual form, we can't see, but we know He is real, and He cares for his flock of lost spirits. Our commission is to grow the kingdom, and search out those who believe, and God will give the increase of knowledge when those souls are ready to receive it! This is the faith hope and charity we should be teaching to others!

I also wanted to add that in the physical realm things work by certain laws, but perhaps in the spiritual realm those laws are not the same and in this realm, earth, we can only imagine how things operate in the spiritual, due to the limitations of our bodies.

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Kenneth Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

February 16 2017, 5:20 PM 

Very interesting! This forced me to look at a few passages

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein,
.....seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth,
.....dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, though he needed any thing,
.....seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

That seems to eleminate HOUSES or anything we do with our hands AS WORSHIP. Worship recognizes that God is the SOURCE and that is done IN THE SPIRIT or Mind.

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men
.....for to dwell on all the FACE of the earth,
.....and hath determined the times before appointed,
.....and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord,
..... if haply they might feel after him, and find him,
.....though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
.....we ought not to think that the Godhead LIKE unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

The trinity is an IMAGE of three persons always pictured as about the size as Jesus. That is a pretty low view of God Who INHABITS eternity and fills all things.

Godhead, contrary to the scholars among us, is not a god with three heads or "three centers of consciousness."

g2304. theios, thi´-os; from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): — divine, godhead.

Jesus as the Son of God was Godlike and connnected to THE Divinity.

g2316 heos, theh´-os; of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very: — x exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).

Like Paul, Enoch and others spoke of the seventh or tenth heaven. The thinkers can mathematically show that there are ten dimensions along with Time making eleven. If God lives IN Us and we live IN the Father-Son (John 14) then we should not think of God being INSIDE of the Man Jesus. The Spirit or "messenger" of God was represented as a dove or Rock Pigeon which carries messages. That Dove never went INSIDE of Jesus or anyone.

I would worry a lot if I thought that Jesus WAS God and that He was crucified because He was WEAK.

2Cor. 13:3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking IN me,
.....which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.
2Cor. 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness,
.....yet he liveth by the power of God.
For we also are weak IN him,
.....but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
2Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be IN THE FAITH; prove your own selves.
.....Know ye not your own selves, that Jesus Christ is IN you, except ye be reprobates?
2Cor. 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

1John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; FOR GOD IS LOVE
1John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us,
.....because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world,
.....that we might live through him.
1John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us,
.....and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another,
.....God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

God IS LOVE does not mean that LOVE is one of the god persons. So, grasping that worship IS IN THE PLACE of the Spirit devoted to THE TRUTH makes one a Child of God. That is the OPPOSITE of those who believe and want to be paid to PRODUCE a worship service for you in A HOUSE as they perform acts of worship with THEIR HANDS: pointing, raising, clapping or playing machines.

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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)

Glad you elaborated

February 16 2017, 5:58 PM 

When you speak of dimensions, are you speaking of peace kindness, mercy, joy, truth, those kind of things? These are all godly attributes we should have living inside, which come from God. Since, we have the words of the spirit, these must be manifest in our conversations and thoughts and actions.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Glad you elaborated

February 16 2017, 6:35 PM 

No, I am speaking of dimensions in this sense:

A dot has only one dimension..
A sheet of paper has two dimensions. If you lived in "flatland" you could see left and right forward or backward. If another person lived in a three-dimensioned world they could see you on flatland but you couldn't look up and see them.

When we sit in a pew in church we sit in the same three-dimensioned space as our parents. However, we can't see them because they lived in the dimension of another time. I am so busy studying because you can in fact travel (in your mind) to another time and place.

Now, what Paul is speaking of is perhaps the FIFTH dimension. God occupies the same space and time as we and He can see us but we cannot see Him. All spirits of His children were given by God and they occupy a small bit of material. The material decays but out spirits even now are "translated into a heavenly kingdom." That is why we can hear everyone say that there is just ONE GOD and everyone else including His special begotten sons grasp that Jesus as He says and says is the SON OF GOD. You will have noted that if you say it for now about 16 years those OF the World or Earth Born will never see it because they have not been translated into the spiritual or maybe fifth dimension.

And so on, just imagine an earth with humans live in 10 dimensions at the same time. I remember Billy Graham explaining how a train might be moving through your living room but you cannot see or hear it.

The role of Jesus was to make a TINY gate or DOOR

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BY me.

A true Church of Christ is a WAY that is called a SECT: it is very narrow and exclusive and close to zero are able to find it.

g3598. hodos, hod-os´; apparently a primary word; a road; by implication, a progress (the route, act or distance); figuratively, a mode or means: — journey, (high-)way.

Baptism SAVES by Faith because it is the only way to get INTO or CLOTHED with Christ. The only way to get past the Keepers of the World or the Devils kingdom is to hide away in the folds of the "garments" of Jesus.

Beware of those lusting to remove the name of CHRIST from their public profession. I am quite certain that, as Enoch explained, they know their destiny. They are called a RACE OF VIPERS and they were not qualified to be baptized. Is that clear as mud?

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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)

That reminds me...

February 16 2017, 8:07 PM 

I read a fictional book from Orson Scott Card, called Pathways or something like that, which reminds me of these dimensions you are speaking about. The people could go back and effect the realities in time and space, and could see the path that prior civilizations had walked. I've been doing a lot of time travel in my mind too these days.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: That reminds me...

February 16 2017, 8:18 PM 

True Disciples live in another dimension: our spirits are translated int a heavenly kingdom which does not come with OBSERVATION meaning religious observations. That is why worship is not in PLACES but in THE SPIRIT as contrasted to the PLACE of Jerusalem. The assembly is ordained and defined inclusively and exclusively as a School of the Word. Even when we may not be totally aware, Jesus said MY WORDS are Spirit and LIFE. That is the only FOOD FOR THE SOUL. Too bad that almost all churches have degenerated to hiring people to build HOUSES and do the work of THEIR HANDS which prevent you from being IN the spirit when Scripture is read and discussed.

Just be careful that you don't go back and murder your grandmother!

here is an interesting bit on time. The earth staying still is no problem if you can stop the "flow" of time.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: That reminds me...

February 16 2017, 8:50 PM 

1Cor. 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Cor. 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cor. 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Cor. 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cor. 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Cor. 15:40 There are also celestial [heavenly] bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
The word Glory of the earthly is ADDED

Those OF the World for whom Jesus doesn't pray are not the Lost Sheep He was sent to rescue from the WORLD VIEW or the Ecumenical or the kingdom of the devil.

g1919. epigeios, ep-ig´-i-os; from 1909 and 1093; worldly (physically or morally): — earthly, in earth, terrestrial.
g1093. ghv ge, ghay; contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): — country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

1Cor. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Cor. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cor. 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Cor. 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Even now, flesh and blood is not added when our spirits are translated into a heavenly kingdom. That is why you can worship YOUR FLESH but never able to engage in SPIRITUAL WORSHIP which means OF THE WORD. Maybe that is why they work SO HARD to PERFORM physical or FLESHLY WORSHIP.

Phil. 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision,
.....which worship God IN THE SPIRIT
.....and rejoice in Christ Jesus,
.....and have no confidence IN THE FLESH

The concision were the emasculated priests of the mother goddess: they and the CATAMITES were the faithful dogs of ISIS (at Sinai) and Cybele. At an EX church of Christ near you.

Psa. 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psa. 22:16 [21:17] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

February 19 2017, 6:42 PM 


Thank you for expressing the title of this thread in that manner.

It is scriptural. It's the central theme of the gospel message of salvation -- God the Father sending His only begotten Son, as the prophesied Messiah in the O.T., to earth.

It is consistently stated/communicated in the beginning verses of each of the epistles from Romans to Jude, in the salutation to individual Christians and churches:

(1) God the Father
--------- and ---------
(2) The Lord Jesus Christ

Romans 1:7
I Corinthians 1:3
II Corinthians 1:2,3
Galatians 1:3
... ... ...
... ... ...
... ... ...
Jude 1:1

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

February 19 2017, 10:07 PM 

I enjoy watching Ancient Aliens: first to be amuses with what the book writers read into things. Second, they always do tours of real sites which is educational. There is no doubt that people lived in past ages with skills which cannot be reproduced by modern methods. These sites are scattered all over the world with the same cosmology that civilized mankind came from "up there." While close to 100 percent of religionists are listening to sermons which TRUMP the Scriptures, the world lies in ignorance like an eyebrow mite on the lashes of an elephant and gloat "what a good boy am I."

Those OF the World as ANGELS OF LIGHT are purpose driven and according to Jude FOREORDAINED to keep the little flock of lambs overrun by a hoard of goats and wolves which are elders which are NOT APT. A wolf is that gender-bent parable of Paul.

Gen. 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen. 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen. 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen. 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

h1368.gibbowr, ghib-bore´; or (shortened) r;Ob…ˆg gibbor, ghib-bore´; intensive from the same as 1397; powerful; by implication, warrior, tyrant:—champion, chief, x excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

h1369. gbuwrah, gheb-oo-raw´; feminine passive participle from the same as 1368; force (literally or figuratively); by implication, valor, victory:—force, mastery, might, mighty (act, power), power, strength.

Kheber: [Arabic] Also gheber, "The mighty one". In Chaldean the word is Aakbar. In Turkish and some other Eastern dialects became akbar, as in the Moslem saying "Allar Akbar", meaning "God is Great". (Synonym of Abir) HislopGloss.html

There was a line of "Highplaces" running from the pyramids of Gizeh through Philistia, Hainan,1 Salem, Shiloh, Beth Shems, Moab,—to Bel's Tower at Babylon. They were sacred to Bal or Bel (El) the Sun. In Syria, Moab, and Mesopotamia they built temples on elevations natural or artificial. Salamah is said to have built one bamah (highplace) to Ka- mos in Moab, and another to the " King" (Malak, Moloch) among the Ammonites. The bamoth were probably the oldest highplaces and temples of the Asarim, Asarielites, or Syrians. The Great Highplace was at Gabaon.2 There Bel- Saturn s met 4 his worshippers on Saturn's Day.

Mse (Masses, or Moses 5) was of the race of the Chaldaeans. The Chaldaean Mithra had his Seven Bays, and Moses his Seven Days. The other planets which circling round the sun lead the dance as round the King of heaven receive from him with the light also their powers ; while as the light comes to them from the sun so from him they receive their powers that he pours out into the Seven Spheres of the Seven Planets

AFTER The Jews rejected The Book of The Covenant which was Abrahamic, God sentenced them to captivity and death as their place of origin. The people refused to listen but Moses wrote and INVERTED version of this ancient cosmology to try to warn the people about their fait and also to warn us. After Paul discussed the Musical Idolatry in 1 Corinthians 10 he wrote:

1Cor. 10:6 Now these things were our EXAMPLES [TYPES PATTERNS], to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

How can you doubt it just by reading Acts 7 where God turned the Jews over to worship the Starry Host because they had never ceased that worship focused on the Stars, Fire and Serpents. That is the PATTERN of those said to be FOREORDAINED because they HAD deceived the whole world (age) before.

Gen. 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen. 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen. 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen. 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen. 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Gen. 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Gen. 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen. 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen. 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen. 6:14 Make thee an ark [A coffin] of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
Gen. 6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
Gen. 6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
Gen. 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Gen. 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.
Gen. 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
Gen. 6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
Gen. 6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
Gen. 6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

February 25 2017, 9:01 PM 

Rubel Shelly and the Holy Spirit

Rubel Shelly

> "In the Old Testament God spoke at many times and in a variety of ways.
> Through Jesus, God Himself spoke to His people during His lifetime.
> Now God speaks through the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will teach you all things,
will call to your memory the things Jesus said,
will guide you into all truth,

will speak what He hears from the Father,
will tell YOU what is yet to come,
and glorify Christ as He reveals Christ to you.

Only the Apostles and later Paul was promised to be GUIDED INTO ALL TRUTH: that doesn't leave ANY truth for the false teachers to hear:

But, John 14:16 Jesus said "I" will come to you. 1 Peter 1:11 says that the prophets spoke by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST. See also Rev. 19:10)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

The I who came as the fuller COMFORTER has a name:

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

John says that the WORDS of Jesus is the ONLY resource and those who do not keep HIS Word are never perfected. The Word, Logos or Regulative Principle is the OPPOSITE of any human experience. However,

Rubel Shelly says: Then I begin reading my Bible again and find that MY EXPERIENCE isn't all that unique.

The Holy Guest will supply everything you need. In your weakness,
you will feel his strength.
Not only through the exhortation of the Word of God
but in your daily routine,
you will hear from
and experience the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blackaby and King (Souther Baptists) in Experiencing God asks:

"Does God really speak to His people in our day?
Will He reveal to you where He is working when He wants to use you?
Yes! God has not changed. He still speaks to His people.
If you have trouble hearing God speak,
you are in trouble at the very heart of your Christian experience.

Shelly etal says that neither Father nor Son speak today: the Holy Spirit (the breath of God) now TRUMPS God.

The Word or Logos is the Regulative Principle excluding anything you can do or say.
God IS that regulative principle or Word.
Jesus SPEAKS that Word which He calls SPIRIT.

Therefore, Rubel Shelly and all of those who use violence against you by claiming to know what you cannot know are ANTI Logos or ANTI christs.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Dianna some more fifth dimension stuff

February 27 2017, 1:02 PM 

In many respects the civilized world is more advanced than the "postomodern" which rejects anything that does not come out of their own vain imagination which God says is "only evil continually." The great loss was turning The Christian SCHOOL into a religious institution so that Calvin could ask "Why should the plowing oxen starve while the lazy asses starve?"

In addition to murdering lots of people the Crusades brought many of the classical writings back with them and hasten the enlightement and the escape from the Catholic Pulpits and burning stakes. For instance, Cicero in Tusculan Disputations

Cic. Tusc. 1.10 But what I have said as to the heart, the blood, the brain, air, or fire being the soul, are common opinions: the others are only entertained by individuals; and, indeed, there were many among the ancients who held singular opinions on this subject, of whom the latest was Aristoxenus, a man who was both a musician and a philosopher .

Aristoxenus is used by the Instrumentalists as PROOF for using music in the SCHOOL OF THE WORD. Pythagoras is connected to THE WORLD VIEW or the KOSMOS, the Ecumenical or the kingdom of the devil at a progressive church near you.

He maintained a certain straining of the body, like what is called harmony in music, to be the soul, and believed that, from the figure and nature of the whole body, various motions are excited, as sounds are from an instrument. He adhered steadily to his system, and yet he said something, the nature of which, whatever it was, had been detailed and explained a great while before by Plato.

Xenocrates denied that the soul had any figure, or anything like a body; but said it was a number, the power of which, as Pythagoras had fancied, some ages before, was the greatest in nature: his master,

This was one of the sects in Romans 14 which Paul silences so that in Romans 15 ignoring self-pleasure (acting, music) "we might use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning.

Plato, imagined a threefold soul, a dominant portion of which--that is to say, reason--he had lodged in the head, as in a tower; and the other two parts--namely, anger and desire--he made subservient to this one, and allotted them distinct abodes, placing anger in the breast, and desire under the præcordia.

But Dicæarchus, in that discourse of some learned disputants, held at Corinth, which he details to us in three books--in the first book introduces many speakers; and in the other two he introduces a certain Pherecrates, an old man of Phthia, who, as he said, was descended from Deucalion [Noah]; asserting, that there is in fact no such thing at all as a soul, but that it is a name without a meaning; and that it is idle to use the expression "animals," or "animated beings;" that neither men nor beasts have minds or souls, but that all that power by which we act or perceive is equally infused into every living creature, and is inseparable from the body, for if it were not, it would be nothing; nor is there anything whatever really existing except body, which is a single and simple thing, so fashioned as to live and have its sensations in consequence of the regulations of nature.

Aristotle, a man superior to all others, both in genius and industry (I always except Plato), after having embraced these four known sorts of principles, from which all things deduce their origin, imagines that there is a certain fifth nature, from whence comes the soul; for to think, to foresee, to learn, to teach, to invent anything, and many other attributes of the same kind, such as to remember, to love, to hate, to desire, to fear, to be pleased or displeased--these, and others like them, exist, he thinks, in none of those first four kinds: on such account he adds a fifth kind, which has no name, and so by a new name he calls the soul, as if it were a certain continued and perpetual motion.

And to prove that most religionists never made it past the Bible or the Enlightenment.

Quint. Inst. 1.10.7 7] so too dumb insects produce honey, whose taste is beyond the skill of man to imitate, from different kinds of flowers and juices. Shall we marvel then, if oratory, the highest gift of providence to man, needs the assistance of many arts [a profession, art (music, poetry, musicam, litterarum, “artes elegantes ], which, although they do not reveal or intrude themselves in actual speaking, supply hidden forces and make their silent presence felt?

1 10.9 Who is ignorant of the fact that music, of which I will speak first, was in ancient times the object not merely of intense study but of veneration: in fact Orpheus and Linus, to mention no others, were regarded as uniting the roles of musician, poet and philosopher. Both were of divine origin, while the former, because by the marvel of his music he soothed the savage breast, is recorded to have drawn after him not merely beasts of the wild, but rocks and trees.

A. Mousikos “leges musicae,” the rules of music “sonus citharae, modos or melody
B. Vates a soothsayer A poet; a poetess (the oldest name for a poet; but it fell into contempt, B. [select] An oracle, i. e. a teacher, master, authority in any art or profession Sibyllae
C. Sophos singer, player of instruments.
D. Judice examine judicially, to judge, be a judge, pass judgment, decide (syn.: judicium facio To condemn = damnare
E. Lĭnus son of Apollo and Psammate, killed him by a blow with the lyre:

[10] So too Timagenes asserts that music is the oldest of the arts related to literature, a statement which is confirmed by the testimony of the greatest of poets in whose songs we read that the praise of heroes and of gods were sung to the music of the lyre at the feasts of kings. Does not lopas, the Vergilian bard, sing

The wandering moon and labours of the Sun
Aen. i. 742.

and the like? whereby the supreme poet manifests most clearly that music is united with the knowledge even of things divine.
11] If this be admitted, music will be a necessity even for an orator, since those fields of knowledge, which were annexed by philosophy on their abandonment by oratory, once were ours and without the knowledge of all such things there can be no perfect eloquence.

Ant that is the ancient, superstitious perhaps part of being Earth Born or of the KOSMOS because Scripture universally connects music and rhetoric to men who who neither intent to teach or others obey God {Isaiah 29; Ezekiel 33} and also of BURNING

[12] There can in any case be no doubt that some of those men whose wisdom is a household word have been earnest students of music: Pythagoras for instance and his followers popularised the belief, which they no doubt had received from earlier teachers, that the universe is constructed on the same principles which were afterwards imitated in [p. 167] the construction of the lyre, and not content merely with emphasising that concord of discordant elements which they style harmony attributed a sound to the motions of the celestial bodies. Note1

Note 1 The music of the spheres: cp. the vision of Er in Plato (Rcp. 10) and the Somnium Scipionis of Cicero. The sounds produced by the heavenly bodies correspond to the notes of the heptachord.

Wise is SAPIO Suggest be inspired by God, high minded, proud SOPHOS mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara, sophōtatos as a title, esp. of lawyers or professors, legomenōn ponērōn men, 2. of things, toilsome, painful, grievous, “erga” Hom.Epigr.14.20; “nousōn ponēroteron” Thgn. 274; “phortion” Ar.Pl.352. phort-ion , to, THE LADED BURDEN RELIEVED BY: Matthew 11.30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Xen. Anab. 7.1.37On the next day Coeratadas arrived with his sacrificial victims and his soothsayer, and there followed him twenty men loaded with barley-meal, another twenty with wine, three with olives, another man with as big a load of garlic as he could carry, and another with onions. After setting down all these things, as though for distribution, he proceeded to sacrifice.

A Soothsayer is manti^s Sibulla:— diviner, seer, prophet of Apollo of the Pythian priestess. Miriam was called a prophetess or a SOOTHSAYER: in Egypt she was the Primary Speaker or PARASITE.
“quas tu mulieres quos tu parasitos loquere,”

[14] It is recorded that the greatest generals played on the lyre and the pipe, and that the armies of Sparta were fired to martial ardour by the strains [Modos] of music. And WHAT ELSE is the function of the horns and trumpets attached to our legions? The louder the concert of their notes, the greater is the glorious supremacy of our arms over all the nations of the earth.

Again, those who claim that PSALLO ever meant "musical melody" claim that God and Paul were so ignorant that they didn't know about the word MODOS or MELODY. Scripture never speaks of musical melody but noise because God SUPPLIED NOT A VERSE in musical meter. God BREATH the Spirit and Jesus SPOKE "without measure", METRON or musical melody. SPEAK is the opposite of ODE or any sing-song presentation claiming to TEACH that which is written for our learning.

This is the story of the Levites who performed WORK SONGS to force even Jewish people into slavery to build a temple God had not commanded. They just built that temple without sound.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Feb 27, 2017 3:55 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Dianna some more fifth dimension stuff

March 1 2017, 8:24 PM 

Dionysus or Bacchus was the old wineskins god which Jesus repudiated when He called the Jewish men BOYS and refused to bow down, sing or lament and dance as a result of the Wineskins initiation. The Jews who were influenced by the Abomination in the Temple holy places hoped that the Messiah would be Dionysus. Dionysus is the god of LENT where you need to exhaust your charismatic and sexual needs BEFORE you observed Easter or Ishtar Day.

Nietzsche in Tragedy was aware of his own age that uncertainty produced a huge collective orgy what Paull called WRATH. To anyone with ears they will hear what Joseph Campbell and the Greeks called CRACKING AWAY to an arcahic of tribal form of madness. Therefore, rather than seeing this terrorism as the cave men saw it as proof that the "gods" had spoken to them we MUST see it is the GROUP MENTALITY produced as a goal of the CHANGELINGS collapsing into GROUP MADNESS.

In these Greek festivals, for the first time nature achieves its artistic jubilee. In them, for the first time,the tearing apart of the principii individuationis [the individualizing principle] becomes an artistic phenomenon.

Here that dreadful witches' potion of lust and cruelty was without power. The strange mixture and ambiguity in the emotions of the Dionysian celebrant remind him, as healing potions remind him of deadly poison, of that sense that pain awakens joy, that the jubilation in his chest rips out cries of agony.

From the most sublime joy echoes the cry of horror or the longingly plaintive lament over an irreparable loss.

In those Greek festivals it was as if a sentimental feature of nature is breaking out, as if nature has to sigh over her dismemberment into separate individuals.

The language of song and poetry of such a doubly defined celebrant was for the Homeric Greek world something new and unheard of.

Dionysian music especially awoke in that world fear and terror [Coupled with Pan and panic]. If music was apparently already known as an Apollonian art, this music, strictly speaking, was a rhythmic pattern like the sound of waves, whose artistic power had developed for presenting Apollonian states of mind. The music of Apollo was Doric architecture expressed in sound, but only in intimate tones, characteristic of the cithara [a traditional stringed instrument}.

The un-Apollonian character of Dionysian music keeps such an element of gentle caution at a distance, and with that turns music generally into emotionally disturbing tonal power.

This music was based on wind instruments, drums and cymbals and the feeling of awe it induced was being frightened into a state which produces all of the depression while making you feel good while they pick your pocked.

There are several version of the Hireos Gamos such as the garden of eden, Mount Sinai, The Song of Solomon, the Abomination in the temple, and the Holy Harlot of Revelation 17f in a pseudo church near you.

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Ken Sublett
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If you say that Jesus claimed to be God YOU BLASPHEME

March 2 2017, 3:27 PM 

1. Jesus ALWAYS says that He is the SON of God.

We repeat that the concept of being foreordained says that those who Obey and are Baptized as the response to the only INVITATION are then PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF GOD'S SON.

In another sense, God's Little flock which He gave to Jesus to come and rescue are the LOST SPIRITS. The are IN the World but they are not OF THE WORLD. That little flock is in a sheltered Rock or the concept of UMBRELLICUM. Those who boast about stirring up storms or worship wars are called "from below" or "earth born." They have a mind or spirit but they will never have A Holy Spirit. The world, kosmos or ecumenical says they want to make MANY DOORS into YOUR sheepfold. Being DOCTORS OF THE LAW means that they are marked by Jesus as "taking away the key to knowledge."

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
.....He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold,
.....but climbeth up some other way,
.....the same is a thief and a robber
John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:3 To him the porter openeth;
.....and the sheep hear his voice:
.....and he calleth his own sheep by name,
.....and leadeth them out.
John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep,
.....he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him:
.....for they know his voice.
John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him:
.....for they know not the voice of strangers.

attend or obey the will, Not we seem with fond desire to tread in vain
along a lengthening road, yet faint and fall
when straining to the utmost, and the tongue
is palsied, and the body's wonted power
obeys not, and we have no speech or cry:
so unto Turnus, whatsoever way
his valiant spirit moved, the direful Fiend
stopped in the act his will.

2. The Jews claimed
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;
.....but for BLASPHEMY;
.....and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

3. Jesus called those who accused Him with blasphemy, BLASPHEMERS.
John 10:36 Say ye of him,
.....WHOM "Whom" is not the "Father."
.....Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
.....because I said, I am the SON OF GOD
John 10:37 If I do NOT the works OF MY FATHER, believe me not.

The Logos or Word is the Regulative Principle which is the OPPOSITE of any human song or sermon or music or opinion or experience. If they do NOT speak that which is written the Spirit OF Christ says in advance that THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM. If you defend or support them and do not cast them out then THAT IS WHAT GOD WANTS YOU TO DO.

Jesus spoke the WORD, Logos or regulative principle which God breathed into him.
Those who CANNOT HEAR hold workshops to MOCK the Logos or Regulative Principle.
They Speak ON THEIR OWN and Jesus marks them as the SONS OF THE DEVIL.
Almost everyone will follow them into MANY gates including WOLVES.
A WOLF among the Greek Students ia a "boy lover".

The Jews claimed that Jesus claimed to BE God
Jesus Said that they BLASPHEMED
Because He ALWAYS claimed to be the SON of God and He had nothing which the Father had not given to HIm.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not..

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Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

March 7 2017, 5:42 PM 

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

July 31 2017, 10:54 PM 

Semiramis was the original Babylon Mother of Harlots: she repeats in Revelation 17 and in Revelation 18 her ministers are "lusted after fruits" as the same prophetic types in Amos 8. She uses craftsmen or any religious teknokrat, singer or instrument players. John calls them Sorcerers and says that they CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

She is also marked by the rise of a radical "trinity" invented in 1938.

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

August 2 2017, 11:21 PM 

Dianna sent me this link to the Babylon Talmud as the TEXT of Messianic Jews featured at LU lectures.

The first part I looked at sounds like John Mark Hicks pattern for the Lord's Supper: God eats with us while we burn the fat:

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Berakoth

Folio 2a



GEMARA. On what does the Tanna base himself that he commences: FROM WHAT TIME?6 Furthermore, why does he deal first with the evening [Shema']? Let him begin with the morning [Shema']! — The Tanna bases himself on the Scripture, where it is written [And thou shalt recite them] … when thou liest down and when thou risest up,7 and he states [the oral law] thus: When does the time of the recital of the Shema' of lying down begin? When the priests enter to eat their terumah.8 And if you like, I can answer: He learns [the precedence of the evening] from the account of the creation of the world, where it is written, And there was evening and there was morning, one day.9 Why then does he teach in the sequel: THE MORNING [SHEMA'] IS PRECEDED BY TWO BENEDICTIONS AND FOLLOWED BY ONE. THE EVENING [SHEMA'] IS PRECEDED BY TWO BENEDICTIONS AND FOLLOWED BY TWO?10 Let him there, too, mention the evening [Shema'] first? — The Tanna commences with the evening [Shema'], and proceeds then to the morning [Shema']. While dealing with the morning [Shema'], he expounds all the matters relating to it, and then he returns again to the matters relating to the evening [Shema'].

The Master said: FROM THE TIME THAT THE PRIESTS ENTER TO EAT THEIR 'TERUMAH'. When do the priests eat terumah? From the time of the appearance of the stars. Let him then say: 'From the time of the appearance of the stars'? — This very thing he wants to teach us, in passing, that the priests may eat terumah from the time of the appearance of the stars. And he also wants to teach us that the expiatory offering is not indispensable,11 as it has been taught:12 And when the sun sets we-taher,13 the setting of the sun is indispensable [as a condition of his fitness] to eat terumah, but the expiatory offering is not indispensable to enable him to eat terumah. But how do you know that these words 'and the sun sets' mean the setting of the sun, and this 'we-taher' means that the day clears away?

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son

August 3 2017, 3:54 PM 


The title of the thread is perfect: "God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son" -- it is scriptural.

The conjunction "and" is extremely significant.

When God sent the Messiah to earth some two millennia ago, God did not send Himself apparently to be born (become a baby), to suffer, to die and be buried, and to be raised from the dead.

It is erroneous to assume that "the Virgin Mary" gave birth to God; that God died on the cross and that God was raided from the dead.

God DID NOT become flesh; it was "the Word" OF God that became flesh (John 1:1,14). God is a spirit and a spirit cannot become flesh; otherwise, it is no longer a spirit. It may be difficult for the human mind to comprehend that a "word" [spoken or written] can become flesh. But that's what happened -- the Word of God (what "God said") became flesh.

Yes, when Jesus was on earth with God in heaven, the Father (also the God of Jesus) and His Son were in constant communication with each other in their relationship. (The book of John clearly explains all this.)

Many in Christendom just cannot accept the truth when Jesus declared: "I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28, KJV. They reject Jesus' own declaration in defense of their preconceived position that Jesus is God's co-God.

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Dianna Howell
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Image of God

August 4 2017, 6:44 PM 

I have been meaning to come back and correct this sentence: "He would be what God would look like if he had a body." In the earthly realm Jesus is the son of God, the word of God. The reflection of God was seen in the face of Jesus, meaning Christ's spirit or mind revealed thru speaking. We reveal our spirit or mind when we speak to one another. Please correct me or add further comments!

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Image of God

August 5 2017, 12:27 AM 

True. Jesus is the image of all that we can comprehend about God. My thesis which I am still researching and have found lots of evidence that people OF TRUTH or OF FAITH are lost spirits Jesus was sent to seek and save. His sheep can hear His voice but those OF the WORLD cannot and despise those who can.

1John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us,
.....that we should be called the sons of God:
.....therefore the world knoweth us not,
.....because it KNEW him not.

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God,
.....and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
.....but we know that, when he shall appear,
.....we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

The WORLD is the Kosmos, Ecumenical or the kingdom of Satan. If you watch TV you know that there is a great battle going on and the church has its own DEEP STATE. They are the DUST people or OF the earth and do not have the Spirit in them which allows reading the truth hidden in plain sight.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth
.....not that Jesus Christ is come in the FLESH is not of God:
.....and this is that spirit of antichrist,
.....whereof ye have heard that it should come;
.....and even now already is it in the WORLD.

1John 4:4 Ye are OF God, little children, and have overcome them:
.....because greater is he that is in you,
.....than he that is in the WORLD.

1John 4:5 They are OF the WORLD:
.....therefore speak they OF the world,
.....and the world heareth them.

1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us;
.....he that is not OF God heareth not us.
.....Hereby KNOW we the spirit OF truth,
.....and the spirit OF error.

1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God,
.....when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1John 5:3 For this is the love of God,
.....that we keep his commandments:
.....and his commandments are not grievous.

1John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the WORLD: [them]
.....and this is the victory that overcometh the world,
.....even our faith.
1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world,
.....but he that believeth that Jesus is the SON of God?

That explains why family and friends or preachers and elders go glassy eyed when you quote too much Scripture to them.

Jesus says that those who claim that he maketh Himself God blaspheme because HE always said that he was the SON of God. I am pretty slow on my feet today and have been busy on another forum.

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Dianna Howell
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A question?

August 5 2017, 3:59 PM 

What did the demons know about Jesus? They always say that he is the son of God. Even Satan calls him the son of God.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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