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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: TRINITY: 'God the Son' vs. SCRIPTURE: 'the Son of God'

March 29 2017, 2:03 AM 

That's a very good understanding of the life of a religious forum like CM and of what's really involved in moderating it. Would you have the time and be interested in helping Ken and Donnie maintain (moderate) this site, Scripture?

donniecruz@msn.com

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: TRINITY: 'God the Son' vs. SCRIPTURE: 'the Son of God'

March 29 2017, 11:52 AM 

I affirm!

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: TRINITY: 'God the Son' vs. SCRIPTURE: 'the Son of God'

March 29 2017, 2:27 AM 

Welcome back, Stan.

"At the end of the day," when one carefully analysis matters that we have presented here, along with scriptural and historical support, we are on the fundamentalist and conservative (perhaps ultra-conservative) side. Does the Restoration Movement, as well as its past great leaders, ring a bell?

Caution: It is upsetting to Dave when he is labeled as a Trinitarian or when the Trinity Creed is refuted.

I agree that an approved post needs to be published as soon as possible. One benefit is that it keeps responses from being misplaced or out of order.

[This site is EST-based rather than CST.]

 
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Donnie
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Dave Declares: Jesus Is 'NOT the Father'

April 11 2017, 11:56 PM 

Dave further boldly declares: "The claim that if Jesus is God then He is also the Father, is now debunked, null and void."

The only part that I agree with Dave is: that Jesus is NOT the Father.

 
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Donnie
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Dave Declares: Jesus Is 'the Everlasting Father'

April 12 2017, 12:02 AM 

Dave uses the pro-Trinity (taken-out-of-context) translation of Isaiah 9:6.

Which one does Dave really believe:

(1) That Jesus is NOT the Father?
----------------- or -----------------
(2) That Jesus is "the Everlasting Father"?

 
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Prayerman
(no login)
98.20.54.34

answered

April 12 2017, 9:46 AM 

Have not been here in a very long time, sure seems less and less comments except from the usual folks, really an answer to prayers. Now the next time in a long time i stop by maybe the message will be, address not recognized.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: answered abswered part A

April 12 2017, 11:13 AM 

How many people get up and respond to your sermons?

It does little good to pray if you are marked as rejecting the Word, Logos, Regulative principle which outlaws personal opionions, personal experiences, preaching, poetry, singing, playing instruments, or acting. Here is what Jesus wants everyone to know who get paid but with no ability to refute the TEXT to justified their food which is the "living" Paul authorized.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Apr 12, 2017 11:19 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

PrayerMan: boasting?

April 14 2017, 11:00 AM 

Those with a 20/20 vision to STEAL your property and make it musically idolatrous with lots of cash for the SENIOR staff (stiffs) STEAL agendas from others who are famous and sell lots of books.

They warn you that "we gonna sow discord but we will be gentle and let YOU know what WE are gonna to to you."
They enter into 40 days of prayer which in Scripture is God TESTING you and giving you lots of chances to repent.
They claim that "a" spirit is telling them what to do.
If they can get you involved in LORD LORD SAYING for 40 days then YOU are supposed to believe that A spirit is AFFIRMING the hidden agenda you you wouldn't want to tamper with the spirit, would you.

The end product is to get you to take the MARK of the BEAST which is defined as A new style of music or Satyric (Pan, Cappella) drama. Other than those who were BREATHED into by God, a prophesier can READ the Text and be able to say "thus saith the Lord." Otherwise, prophesiers who are always females or wannabes are singers, clappers, players, shouters, huggers and kissers."

Jesus has your ITINERARY all made up and ticked paid in full.

http://www.piney.com/Mike.Cope.2017.PBL.Hieros.Gamos.html

Sara Barton uses the Song of Solomon

http://www.piney.com/Sara.Barton.The.Song.of.Solomon.html

defines the meaning of the Lord, Lord Sayers or those who picked the widow's purse for making long prayers or, in the Greek, long hymns.

my pastoral impulse this week is to proclaim the message of the Song of Songs. And here’s why: We desperately need public, communal language about sex, and we have an oft-overlooked resource in the Bible.

Song of Songs is unique in several ways, one of which is the fact that it’s the only place in Scripture where a woman’s voice leads the conversation (the woman speaks 61 of 117 verses). In light of what we’ve heard lately, it seems like a good time to let a wise woman speak about sexual activity that’s right and good, a woman who not only speaks but sings and shouts about intimate, sensual, erotic passion. And in all her talk about kissing, touching, tasting, and smelling, she does not offend with crass or vulgar language. She exemplifies how it’s possible to speak about sex and intimacy appropriately. We might do well to let her teach us a thing or two.


[linked image]

"In their trances and ecstasies, these prophets or dervishes were believed to be divinely possessed, to have access to more than human knowledge, to be able to pronounce oracles, and so on."

"In the time of Saul, the companies of prophets were by no means completely edifying. They may, indeed, have been hang-overs of paganism. Samuel, as the spiritual leader of the time, seems to have attempted to guide their energies into the path of Yahvism, but it is difficult to say how much success he might have head."

"Yet the prophets were an excellent tool. They had the capacity to stir and influence the people and they tended to be strongly nationalistic, ready always to serve as the backbone of resistance against foreign oppression. Samuel, as their head, could direct them to meet and join Saul. It was the support of the bands of prophets that was Samuel's practical contribution to the establishment of Sauls kingship." (Asimov's Guide to the Bible, p. 283).

"Self-interest in social affairs made for self-indulgence in matters of religion. The northern sanctuaries were crowded with worshippers who, in the main, were rejoicing in the erotic religious rites that were the concomitant of a pagan Canaanite Baal worship.

Prophets and priests associated with the sanctuaries profited from the lavish gifts of the worshippers, and naturally condoned these exercises in the name of religion, appearing completely oblivious to the conditions of rapid decay which lay immediately underneith the surface of social life." (Harrison, R. K., Introduction to the Old Testament, Eerdmans, p. 886)

[O TIMOTHY editor, David Cloud: This is not a "God-sized dream"; it is the vision of the Harlot that John recorded in Revelation 17. [Lucado and Promise Keepers are] confused about the church. It certainly is not all the alleged Christian denominations. The focus on the New Testament Scriptures is upon the church as a local body of baptized believers organized according to the apostolic pattern for the fulfillment of the Great Commission. This is the church which is the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim. 3). To define the "church" as the denominations and to call for this hodgepodge of doctrinal and moral confusion "to stand together" is utter confusion. The denominations today are more akin to the Harlot of Revelation 17 than to the church of Jesus Christ.]

And HER clergy are called Lusted-After fruits.






 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

But Dave Also Declares: Jesus Is 'the Everlasting Father'

May 2 2017, 12:22 AM 

In a recent post, Dave said: "It isn't about NOT discussing the Trinity doctrine or ANY doctrine. No one wants to discuss ANYTHING here."

Well, Dave, this is your opportunity to clarify your stance. Which one does Dave really believe:

(1) That Jesus is NOT the Father?
----------------- or -----------------
(2) That Jesus is "the Everlasting Father"?

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Which One???

May 2 2017, 2:42 PM 

Jesus talking to Donnie

John 5
45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


So, which is it? Jesus, the Son of God, Jesus the Creator, Jesus the Father, or Jesus/God???

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


Luke 2
49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Which One???

May 15 2017, 12:05 AM 

Dave,

You did answer, but you've left readers like me still wondering if you're really that confused.

(1) One side of your mouth says that Jesus is NOT the Father. This particular thread that you initiated made that bold declaration -- which is scriptural and I agree with you. There's plenty of passages in the New Testament supporting that truth.

(2) The other side of your mouth says that Jesus is the Father; that Jesus is "the everlasting Father" ... by quoting Isaiah 9:6.

Both arguments are mutually exclusive.

And the Bible does not contradict itself.

How do you reconcile your contradictory statements?

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

No Contradiction

May 17 2017, 11:56 AM 

Colossians 1
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Titus 2
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

John 3
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Hebrews 1
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Jesus Is God, but NOT the Father

May 20 2017, 5:02 PM 

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd:
.....the good shepherd giveth HIS life for the sheep.
John 10:12 But he that is an HIRELING, and not the shepherd,
.....whose own the sheep are not,
.....seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth:
..... and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.


Christ gifted APT ELDERS who by definition will "Teach that which has been taught" in an assembly defined as a School of the Word of Christ. In a WORLD ORDER group he is not APT and therefore HIRES someone to be CEO. This is MARKED as no longer a Church or Ekklesia of Christ and as Rubel Shelly says THE leader must have CHARISMA. Of course, he does not and cannot know that JESUS is the name of God's GRACE which teaches us to REJECT what the new GIG

GIG is slang for a live musical performance. Originally coined in the 1920s by jazz musicians, the term, short for the word "engagement", now refers to any aspect of performing such as assisting with performance and attending musical performance. Jazz, like Scribes and Pharisees, is "made up on the spot" and creates sexual arousal as does any rhythmic noise."

A hireling is a mercinary who does anything for reward or paid: opposite GRACE. A hireling is always paid to express the opinions of a group. A Jubeo is commanded to teach or not teach certain things. That is why trying to dialog with a preachers is met with silent contempt or quickly ends when challenged by the Scriptures. It is not possible to be a hireling and teach that which has been taught. He is an eye-server according to the Greek


http://www.piney.com/Worship.Androgyny.The.Pagan.Sexual.Ideal.html

lukos of treacherous or unnatural love, Hymn or humenaioi, of an impossibility,
VI. nickname of paiderastai, . Pl.Phdr. 241d.

Aesch. PB 552 And the difference in the song stole into my thought [555] —this song and that, which, about your bridal bed and bath, I raised to grace your marriage, when you wooed with gifts [560] and won my sister Hesione to be your wedded wife.


Melody ALWAYS steals your thoughts. He goes on to repeat what God said: "You sacrifice the lamb to me but YOU eat the flesh."

paiderastai A. lover of boys, mostly in bad sense, Aristoph. Ach. 265 X.An.7.4.7, The god of generation worshipped in the form of a Phallus or Hermes (KAIROS)

Xen. Anab. 7.4.8 Episthenes' turn of mind, how he had once assembled a battalion with an eye to nothing else save the question whether a man was handsome, and that with this battalion he proved himself a brave man.


This hymen hymn speaks of the real impossibility wolf UNITING with the Lamb because, where worship teams have slipped in the Lambs flee.

Plat. Phaedrus 241d “Just as the wolf loves the lamb, so the lover adores his beloved.” There it is, Phaedrus! Do not listen to me any longer; let my speech end here.

Greek: harpazo snatch away, carry off snatch away, carry off to be a robber seize, overpower, overmaster, with his tongue opportunity of attacking, S.Aj.2; “ha. ton kairon” 6. captivate, ravish, LXXJu.16.9, Plu. Ant.28.

http://www.piney.com/The.Kairos.Church.Planting.Plot.htmll

He RAPIO or Rapes to seize and carry off, to snatch, tear, drag, draw, or hurry away “Nasonis carmina rapti,” i. e. torn from his home, borne far away, To carry off by force; to seize, rob, ravish; to plunder, ravage, lay waste, take by assault, carry by force
i, n., the plunder, that which is stolen: “rapto vivere,” to live by robbery,


Rapture or Rape with a CARMEN [Melody: a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental, Apollinem) APOLLON concordant carmina nervis “citharae With allusion to playing on the cithara the sound of waves, “Carminibus Circe socios mutavit Ulixi,

Circē "CHURCH" the Sacred Whore in the area of Patmos and referenced as the "Babylon mother of Harlots" in Revelation 17 who practiced Magical Poisoning induced with SONGS: Circe or Kirke is the daughter and uses magical poisoning. Daughter of the Son

Socios: she was in league with Jupiter or Saturn whose chaldee number is 666 and worshipped by the Jews. She mutated Odysseus's men but He was given a drug, moly, to resist her songs and drugs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren_%28mythology%29#/media/File:Ulysses_And_The_Sirens_by_L%C3%A9on_Belly.jpg

They receive their Second Incarnation as "musical worship teams" or women doing sex talk at Pepperdine or any of the once-Christian schools.

This was the THEME of Pepperdine's Lectures this week. Their Pattern the Song of Solomon is this Hieros Gamos or worship of the Babylon Mother of Harlots (again in Revelation 17). Even when God many times promises BURNING they will never listen to warnings because in the words of Jude about the "sacred marriage" at Mount Sinai with sexual and homosexual rising up AGAINST GOD that they are FOREORDAINED.

When Madison was attacked by A Musical Worship Team most of the flock scattered because they felt. if not understood, that they were being seduced into what the Vineyard or Wineskins promoted as a sexual-like climax with God.

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

The Hireling if challenged by APT elders will flee to the next sheep fold after as many have noted in this forum SCATTERED the flock. My last close to 300 flock had about 200 flee.

John 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and KNOW my sheep, and am KNOWN of mine.
John 10:15 As the Father KNOWETH me, even so KNOW I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Obviously the Son is not the Father nor a "fellow God." Here is the MARK of a Hireling Shepherd who scatters and moves on:

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me,
BECAUSE I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
.....I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
.....This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
John 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
John 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
John 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch [Jesus never entered a Holy Place].

John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not:
.....the WORKS that I do in MY FATHER'S NAME
.....they bear WITNESS of me.


They cannot honestly think that Jesus made Himself the Father Just before he obeyed the Father's Commands.

The father and son are ONE in their testimony which is THE POINT of the discord.

God was the Logos or PLAN or REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE.
The ONE GOD breathed (spirit) without METRON which most often means without METER as the mark of the Scribes and Pharisees in their howling CANTILLATION but never metrical in a tuneful sense.
As the ANTITHESIS to the Pagans Paul commanded that the TEXT (only) be SPOKEN whichi is the oppposite of OODE, poetry or music.

People OF the World marked by selling their own words CANNOT Grasp that Jesus came for Lost Sheep or Lost Spirits who find themselves in an evil and hostile World, Kosmos, Ecumenical or the World Order of the Devil and His angels of light. Jesus MADE the world in the sense that He opened a TINY GATE for anyone but He said that He does not pray for the ECUMENICAL who are in a hostile frenzy to expel the faithful and collectivize the goats (cappellas). He said that God HIDES from the wise or sophists: self-authoring preachers for sale, singers or instrument players. This MUSIC has the true meaning as to Make the Lambs Dumb before the slaughter. Lucky for the lambs, at places like Madison the lamb escape when they see the goats or CAPPELLAS molesting them.

Of those the PROGRESSIVES use as PATTERN as the Jewish-Christian Covenant with Death and Hell Jesus tells them WHY they had the Word or Regulative Principle:

John 10:26 But ye believe not, BECAUSE ye are NOT of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
.....neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My FATHER, which gave them ME, is greater than all;
..... and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one


The Father is greater than the son: the father and son cannot be one or the SAME. All of the context shows that Jesus must be accepted as the Christ because He speaks only what they thought of as Jehovah commanded Him to speak

And or the Greek KAI used to distinguish the I from his FATHER cannot prove that "I Am my Father" but I and my FATHER are united because I have no input in the WORD.

The CONTEXT proves that Jesus was doing EXACTLY what the "One God the Father" breathed (spirit) into Him and which He ARTICULATED. Words are w.o.r.d.s or that which one SPEAKS. There was no difference between the Words of the Father and the SPEAKING of His Son. They are one: not the ONE PERSON.

The Son is not the father because He is the Son: the Father shows what the Son does not know. When God shows Jesus then He can say that He speaks what He has SEEN with His father. However, this is not from all eternity.

John 8:38 I SPEAK that which I have seen with my Father: and ye DO that which ye have seen with your father.

The sons of the Devil DO: that is the "poetry word" including anything you make or do or compose or speak ON YOUR OWN.

of Poets, compose, write, epos or hymns generally, that which is uttered in words, speech, tale, A.“dithuramba kōmōdian, tragōdian“palinōdian” of sacrifices, festivals, etc., celebrate, observe the Sabbath


The Father loved the Son and cannot BE the Son.

The Father Gave Jesus the works to do. Therefore, Jesus is not the Father.

The Father SENT Jesus and therefore the SENT is not the SENDER.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son,
.....and SHEWED him all things that himself DOETH:
.....and HE will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 5:36 But I have WITNESS witness GREATER than that of John:
.....for the works which the Father hath GIVEN ME
.....the same works that I do,
.....BEAR WITNESS of me, that the Father hath SENT ME


Jesus said that the sons of the DEVIL can be seen with those with spiritual eyes and ears: They SPEAK ON THEIR OWN. This is the authoriity or Authentia outlawed for females because no straight, spiritual male would ever hire out their antics which Paul called MADNESS claiming to "lead you into the presence of God.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you,
.....I go away, and come again unto you.
..... If ye loved me, ye would rejoice,
.....because I said, I go unto the Father:
.....for my Father is greater than I.


Jesus received the PROMISE or the COMMISSION or ASSIGNMENT as The Holy Spirit or MIND OF GOD who would guide the Apostles into all truth..

Jesus the POURED OUT what they could see (firey tongues) and hear (BREATH NOT a person.]

The NAME of the Holy Spirit Comforter is "Jesus Christ the Righteous." He lives in the SPIRIT World but he is stil the KING but He will be on the throne only until He comes again. He will return the THRONE to the FATHER. He is the ONLY Teacher and the Great Commission is the CENI.

The Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy for saying that He MAKETH THYSELF GOD.
That would be true IF Jesus had ever said that he WAS God

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;
.....but for blasphemy; and because that thou,
.....being a man, makest thyself God.


Jesus did the works of the Father because the Father gave Him the power. Jesus always claimed to have done everything by the authority and power of the Father. Therefore, the Jews prove that they had no interest in understanding Jesus who threatened their ungodly religious institution.

There is one Lord [YHWH] the only true GOD [Elohim]. Jesus said that "gods" were those to whom God revealed His mysteries because they are sons of God. Jesus was filled with theotes or godhead as Divine NATURE and those who are baptized into or clothed with Jesus share in that Divine Nature. I know of no theologian who does not eat and thrive by saying that Godhead means that God has three heads or in the words of LU and John Mark Hicks "three centers of consciousness" who serve, in the words of H. Leo Boles as a very friendly COMMITTEE.

Therefore, Jesus told the clergy then and now that they could not grasp the mysteries because:

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
.....Thou BLASPHEMEST;
.....because I said, I am the SON OF GOD
John 10:37 If I do not the WORKS of my Father, believe me not.


As Son of God Jesus was ONE with Him in the "united" sense that the Son then and now will never do anything to TRAFFIC but will speak what they have heard from Jesus Who heard from the Father and will be hated and despised and never get on the workshops of evil.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on May 20, 2017 11:22 PM


 
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Rancor
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68.74.186.218

Classic

May 21 2017, 2:25 PM 


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

John 17: All of the Little Flock are ONE in the same sense that Father and Son are one.

May 21 2017, 4:25 PM 

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,
.....Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh,
.....that he should give eternal life to as many as THOU HAST GIVEN HIM

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee
.....the ONLY TRUE GOD
.....AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


For a Disciple of Christ or Christian Jesus said that there is only ONE TRUE God and he is not THE ONE true God nor one of the THREE true Gods.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth:
.....I have FINISHED the work which thou gavest me to do.


A major part of the WORK God gave only to Jesus was to DELIVER His Word and MARK AS NOT God's children those who do not, as apt elders, teach that WHICH HAS BEEN taught.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
.....with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


All spirits existed perhaps from eternity:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
.....and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


Jesus was the first BEGOTTEN FROM THE DEAD and not from eternity past: His body did not suffer corruption and was glorified and returned at Pentecost as Holy Spirit and began His New creation RESERVED UNTO FIRE because all spirits will be tested by unheard of violence most violent by those who SELL themselves and prevent the WORD from reaching the lost spirits. However, they will fail and nothing shows failure more than the rushing to and fro applauding one another.

Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Romans 1: 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world:
.....thine they were, and thou gavest them me;
.....and they have kept thy WORD.


Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise or sophists: self-authoring speakers for hire, singers, instrument players or actors: in face any religious cunning craftsmen or sophists, says Paul, ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are OF THEE


The Word or Logos is God's only Spirit-Forming power: the Logos was breathed (spirit) and Jesus SPOKE or articulated the word. Because that LOGOS came only from GOD is is most likely that no one heard more than a verse or two from God as an excuse to speak buckets of song and sermon to, in the case of the Pharisees, to silence the Words of Jesus because from Isaiah 55 He DOES NOT PERMIT any of His Words to be sold at retail or corrupted. That same Greek word means "prostitution."

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the WORDS which thou gavest me;
and they have received them
And have known surely that I came out from thee,
and they have BELIEVED that thou didst send me.''


Acts 2:40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward [crooked, Viper] generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The WORD or Logos is God's Regulative Principle and not a person. People hear or receive the LOGOS or they cannot be a Christian. Those who go beyond what was spoken or written are not Lost Spirits and Jesus was not sent for them. Adam more clearly in the Latin without which you cannot be a "scholar" shows that Adam was an Aborigine or Earth Born. God breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living soul or spirit enabled to hear the mind or Spirit of God.

John 17:9 I pray for THEM: I pray NOT for the WORLD,
.....but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world,
.....but these are in the world, and I come to thee.
.....Holy Father, keep through thine OWN NAME
.....those whom thou hast given me,
.....that they may be ONE, as we are.


All of the Little Flock or the Way that is called a SECT as a narrow road or walk or pattern are ONE in the same sense that Father and Son are ONE: They all Speak the Same things because they obey the one-piece pattern to "speak that which is written for our LEARNING." Rom 15

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world,
.....I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept,
.....and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition;
.....that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 17:13 And now COME I TO THEE;
.....and these things I SPEAK in the world,
.....that they might have my joy FULFILLED in themselves.


John 17:14 I have given them
.....THY WORD; and
.....the world hath HATETH them,
.....because they are not of the world,
.....even as I am NOT OF the world.


John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest
.....take them out of the world,
.....but that thou shouldest KEEP them from the EVIL.

John 17:16 They are NOT OF the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:17 SANCTIFY them
.....through THY TRUTH:
.....thy WORD is TRUTH.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone,
.....but for them also which shall believe on me through their WORD;

 
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Dave
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75.189.230.246

Who Ya Gonna Believe?

May 27 2017, 8:24 PM 

Hebrews 1
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLD

Genesis 1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


Why, in Genesis, it mentions GOD ONLY as the creator.
Why, in John, it mentions JESUS ONLY as the creator.

YET, in Hebrews, the author specifies that the world was made BY HIM (Jesus).


STILL

Colossians 1
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Not only were all things created by Jesus, but FOR Jesus

God and Jesus are separately called the creators, yet there is one Creator???

God = Jesus

Don't believe Dave, and certainly don't believe in someone who will deliberately distort the Word of God, such as those who own this site. Believe THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. Right Ken?

Donnie can't fathom that Jesus is God because Jesus is the Son of God.


Matthew 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.



 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Who Ya Gonna Believe? (Let the Scripture Speak)

May 28 2017, 2:09 AM 

Dave,

I completely agree with your premise in this thread -- that Jesus is NOT the Father. But when you equate God the Father with Jesus the Son of God, then you are very confused and self-contradictory. Scripture tells you again and again that you cannot have it both ways.


Hebrews 1
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLD

Response: Dave, you are confusing the grammatical structure of the passage. Let's clarify for you the "he" and the "whom" in the passage. Simply: "Hath [God] in these last days spoken unto us by [God's] Son [Jesus], whom [Jesus] he [God] hath appointed heir of all things, BY [JESUS] ALSO [GOD] MADE THE WORLD." Jesus the Son is not equated with God the Father.

Genesis 1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Response: Correct. God created the heaven and the earth. Or, it would have said: "Jesus created the heaven and the earth." Would it, Dave?

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Response: This verse is a reference to the Father, not to Christ.

Why, in Genesis, it mentions GOD ONLY as the creator.
Why, in John, it mentions JESUS ONLY as the creator.

Response: Both passages (in Genesis and in John) are references to God the Father.

YET, in Hebrews, the author specifies that the world was made BY HIM (Jesus).

Response: No, Dave. Hebrews 1 says that God made the world THROUGH Jesus.

STILL

Colossians 1
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Response: Don't skip the preceding verse 15 -- Jesus is THE IMAGE OF the INVISIBLE God. Lincoln's image on a penny is not Lincoln. Washington's image on a quarter is not Washington. Jesus did not create; it was THROUGH Jesus that God created....

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Response: The word "before" [pro] means he is "superior to" all things. You're not a "thing," Dave.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Response: That passage is correct: Jesus established (began) his church.

Not only were all things created by Jesus, but FOR Jesus

Response: Correct: All things were created: (1) THROUGH Jesus and (2) FOR Jesus

God and Jesus are separately called the creators, yet there is one Creator???

Response: There is only one Creater -- God the Father.

God = Jesus

Response: God is the Father; Jesus is the Father's Son.

Don't believe Dave, and certainly don't believe in someone who will deliberately distort the Word of God, such as those who own this site. Believe THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. Right Ken?

Response: Don't believe in the INVENTED Trinity. Trinitarian translators have distorted quite a few scriptures by mistranslating them to promote their doctrinal agenda.

Donnie can't fathom that Jesus is God because Jesus is the Son of God.

Response: Accurately stated: It is unfathomable (and it is a FALSE CLAIM) "that Jesus is God because Jesus is the Son of God."

Matthew 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Response: There's nothing wrong with the passage: All power is given by the Father to His Son -- the Father does not become the Son in the process of giving and receiving.

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.92.115.207

Jim Jones>>>Donnie Cruz

May 28 2017, 7:12 PM 

All three passages in KJV state that the worlds, that includes earth, was made BY Jesus.

CORRECT: Donnie said "Response: Correct: All things were created: (1) THROUGH Jesus and (2) FOR Jesus"

BY and THROUGH.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Donnie's False Response: "This verse is a reference to the Father, not to Christ."

JESUS was in the world, and since Jesus is God, you are partially right. The world rejected Christ.
Donnie, find anything that supports your false teaching that this meant God and not Jesus.

Isaiah 9 calls Jesus the "Everlasting Father." If Jesus is given ALL, not some, authority in Heaven and Earth, then Who is in above all? God or Jesus?

Jesus = God.

Not a man-made belief. It is straight from the Word. Please don't drink Donnie's kool-aid.


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Trust the Scripture!!!

May 29 2017, 4:59 PM 

Dave: All three passages in KJV state that the worlds, that includes earth, was made BY Jesus.

---------------------------

Response: Nope. Jesus, the Son of God, did not create the worlds. All "three passages in KJV" that Dave has misunderstood:

1. Hebrews 1:2 -- God has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son; God has appointed his Son heir of all things; by his Son also God made the world.

-------------- God (NOT His Son) created the worlds.-------------------------

2. Genesis 1:1 -- In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

-------------- God (NOT His Son) created the heaven and the earth.-------

3. John 1:10 -- He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

All three passages have references to God the Father as THE CREATOR.

You must read and study those passages very carefully and with an open mind: not influenced by your preconceived notion from the INVENTED Trinity dogma.

The third passage (John 1:10) must be taken in context beginning with verse 6:

  • [6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
  • [7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
  • [8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
  • [9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
  • [10] He [God] was in the world, and the world was made by him [God], and the world knew him [God] not.


In that section of the chapter, John was not the light. God was THE LIGHT. God was THAT LIGHT. God was THE TRUE LIGHT. God as THE LIGHT was in the world, and the world was made by God, and the world knew God not.

Dave: context, context, context!!! Do not depend on Trinitarians when they automatically make assumptions with the pronouns to agree with their dogmatic agenda.


Dave: Isaiah 9 calls Jesus the "Everlasting Father." If Jesus is given ALL, not some, authority in Heaven and Earth, then Who is in above all? God or Jesus?

Jesus = God.

Not a man-made belief. It is straight from the Word. Please don't drink Donnie's kool-aid.

-----------------------

Response: Again: context, context, context and unbiased translation of Isaiah 9. (We've discussed this passage numerous times before, but you've paid no attention to the context in the whole chapter.)

Please read the context very slowly: The chapter deals with the prophesied coming of the Messiah whom God the Father will send to earth -- God the Father is not sending Himself as the Messiah: you know that, Dave, right? The coming Messiah is to establish his kingdom (known as the church, Matt. 16:18-19; Acts 1;2). He will be the king of his kingdom. (Do not expect God the Father to sit upon the throne of David. Neither should we expect God the Father to be "the Prince of Peace.") In essence, he is the originator ("father") of that kingdom. The Messiah's kingship is an age or an era: an everlasting age even at the time when the kingdom is delivered to God the Father (I Cor. 15:34).

Within the context above, Isaiah 9:6 (proper and unbiased translation) should render:

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty Ruler [God], Father [Originator] of the [Everlasting] Age, Prince of Peace.

CONTEXT ... CONTEXT ... CONTEXT!!! And unbiased/proper translation!!!

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.92.115.207

Ken, Chime in old man!

May 29 2017, 10:16 PM 

Donnie, you are not a fool, so why act like one?

YOU KNOW, that even with your trying to distort God's Word with your "in context" John 1 10 ONLY refers to Jesus. NO ONE else. Verses 6 through 9 speak of John telling the world of the Light, which is and will always be JESUS.

Hey, Donnie, as crazy as this may sound, I wouldn't even mind seeing what Ken believes on this. I have yet to see anyone other than you, Donnie, to have this take on those verses.

"....that all men through him might believe."

John bore witness of the light, and JESUS was that light.

John 8
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Check your scripture on 1 Corinthians 15:34....doesn't make sense, even though that seems the norm for you lately.

 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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