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The scriptures concerning Jacob and Esau

June 14 2017 at 1:22 PM
Dianna Howell  (Login dianna01)
from IP address

I have always found this narrative concerning Jacob using deceit against Esau to steal the birthright confusing.
Jacob and Rebecca use deceit and cunning to trick Isaac.
Esau obeys his father to provide a meal for him.

One son is obedient and the other treacherous.

Can someone point out the different lessons or elaborate further on these scriptures? Of course we know The Lord can use whomever to fulfill his purpose.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: The scriptures concerning Jacob and Esau

June 14 2017, 2:17 PM 

What the Epistle of Barnabas thought.

This Barnabas about a.d. 100 may have bee trying, like John, to correct the false Judaism and paganism in the early church

Remember what Jesus said about Parables: to fool those with no need to know or those OF the World.

Then take a look at:

Galatians 4

This is a good study but my flesh is weak right now.

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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)

Jacob and Esau

June 14 2017, 2:59 PM 

My prayers are with you Ken!

I came across this link in Ken's collected research from Alexander Campbell. Speaks somewhat regarding birthright, and history of the patriarchy.

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Ken Sublett
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God's Holy Fire: Ken Cukrowski, Mark Hamilton, and James Thompson

June 14 2017, 4:46 PM 

"God's Holy Fire promises to challenge and enrich current study of the Bible in our churches...A must-read for Christians commited to applying God's Word to their daily lives. Ken Cukrowski, Mark Hamilton, and James Thompson ACU Press."

God's Holy Fire ACU promises that if you JUDAIZE that:

1. "Eliminating the Old Testament from our canon severely curtails our understanding of the character and activities of God..." (p. 49).

2. "Recovering the Old Testament conversely could transform us more fully into what we have always sought to be--Churches of Christ" (ibid.).

3. "Recognizing that the Old Testament functions just as fully as the New in the canon of the church...." (p. 63).

4. "Too often, we in churches of Christ have made a mistake in removing the Old Testament, for practical purposes, from our canon. The hole in Scripture has produced a hole in the practice of our faith" (p. 66).

Like all "Scholars" these people treat the LAW as all of those books now bound in the Old Testament. The Prophets by the Spirit OF Christ refutes the Law of Moses and the Laws of the abandoned Monarchy and define God's Future REST both inclusively and exclusively.

Alexander Campbell's Sermon on the Law.

The "religionism" being promoted widely law-based. It is neither Biblical nor remotely similar to Calvin's call to Restore the Church of Christ and the Campbell's view of New Testament Christianity

Then Alexander Campbell's sermon on the law is treated as a radically nasty thing because he taught that the Law of Moses or its distortion under the Monarchy period cannot be resurrected without repudiating the finished work of Christ.

But we showed from beginning to the end of church history that there was a clear dispensational distinction between Law and Grace. We have not found one ancient scholar who does not repudiate using the ceremonial legalism under the "like the nations" kingdom of Israel for Christian worship. Of course, the Catholic church had the power to do so and longs to restore congregational singing.

The Baptists who wanted to try Campbell for heresy for not "talking the talk" were violently opposed to his liberating sermon on the law because they needed to preach the damnation of the law to produce a radical breakdown in people so that they could have an experience which was sold as "coming to Christ." This is why baptism is not necessary: it is outside of the "law period" which each person must endure until they are saved by faith.

We suspect that much of the Baptist and Calvinist violent reaction to the sermon was Campbell's thinly-veiled proof that any one could hear the gospel, believe it and respond to without clergy or ritual. Campbell's view were close to unique then and now in recognizing the difference between what Paul called CARNAL and the School of Chris which is SPIRITUAL and teaches and observes only what commanded to be taught and therefore BUILD or EDUCATE the Church of Christ by the Prophets and Apostles.

John 8:38 I SPEAK that which I have seen with MY Father:
and ye DO that which ye have seen with your father.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: The scriptures concerning Jacob and Esau

June 14 2017, 7:43 PM 

The Jews at the time of Jesus who controlled religion are called a Race of Vipers. The are called worse. Most of the Theologians who have abandoned Bible should never be though of as Biblical ignorant as they seek to be the CHURCH COUNCIL for the rest of us. The MARK inflicted by the BEAST is a Viper Bite.

Plague PLESSO mark of character, musical sounds, weeping sores.
Beast: Thērion a new style of music and Satyric (Panish) drama
Image: carmen imagine vivat, song imitating truth
Mark: kharag-ma branded, the serpent's mark, ekhidn-a treacherous wife or friend,
gennēmata ekhidnōn brood of vipers, term of reproach, in Ev.Matt.3.7.

Soph. Ant. 531 You who were lurking like a viper in my own house
and secretly gulping up my life's blood, while I was oblivious that I was nurturing two plagues,

[linked image]

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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)

Jacob and Esau

June 16 2017, 11:52 AM 

These verses remind me of Jacob and Esau.

Matthew 21:28-31 (KJV)
But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[29] He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[30] And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go , sir: and went not.
[31] Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Jacob and Esau

June 16 2017, 1:57 PM 

Good observation: The Bible often uses TWO brothers or people or nations to show the contrast between those OF the World or "below" and those, like Jesus, from Above.

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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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