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Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 20 2017 at 12:23 AM
Donnie Cruz  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 23.127.32.146

In the Old Testament (KJV online search), the word "sabbath" occurs 111 times; "sabbath day" occurs only 22 (of 111) times; "sabbaths" occurs numerous times (35). This is an indication that there were different types of sabbaths under the old covenant. Facts are that the seventh day was the sabbath day; that God rested on the seventh day from all his work (Gen. 2:2; etc.); that it was a day of complete rest--no work to be done; that it was a day to be kept holy. "Seventh day" is mentioned 50 times in the O.T.

In the New Testament (KJV online search), the word "sabbath" occurs 60 times; "sabbath day" occurs 42 (of 60) times; "sabbaths" occurs zero (0) times. This seems to indicate that in the N.T., "sabbath" was in reference to the "sabbath day" as you will notice in the gospels (the life of Christ in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) and in the Book of Acts (the history of the early church). In the epistles, there is only one reference to the "sabbath days" in Colossians 2:16. Although the sabbath day was supposedly a day of complete rest, did not Christ and the apostles violate the command to observe the sabbath day as a day of rest -- which excludes healing or going to "pluck the ears of corn" or gathering sticks, etc.?

We're not talking about references to "enter[ing] into my rest" in the New Testament.

Is the Roman Catholic Church responsible for changing the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday?

Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church correct in maintaining that the seventh day is still the Sabbath Day?

This may or may not be considered as a trick question: Which day is truthfully the "Christian" sabbath -- Saturday or Sunday?


_________________________

Corrected stats in red [d.c.]


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Jul 20, 2017 10:36 AM


 
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Scripture
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 20 2017, 11:16 AM 

Jesus came with the law of liberty. As such, he was outdone by Sabbath-keeping since it was interpreted popularly as a law, while he said it was to less important than pulling an ox from a ditch, of helping to restore health to the sick or to give to the needy on that day.

If there was to be a Christian Sabbath, then it would be far less legalistic, if at all. It would be a day in which Christians could worship with reassurance and peace, reassured that the gift of Christ would be for their redemption, and peace that comes from that security.

So the Christian Sabbath, if it was installed at all, would be a day of blessing and rest.

So more or less, the legalism of the Jewish Sabbath was abolished, while the new day would be one of liberty and rest.

The early Christians met on our Sunday, the first day of the week, as testified to by Luke in Acts 20:7, and Paul in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2. This was to be a day in which the Lord was to be remembered in the Supper (or Communion) and convenient to contribution of money to help the needy saints and others, as well as to worship God. John may have been referring to this day in Revelations 1:10 and the Hebrew writer in chapter 10, verse 25.

The temple is to the Jewish Sabbath as the Church is to the grace of Christianity liberty.

I think many call Sunday the "Christian Sabbath" partly because they thinking they are keeping the Ten Commandments, specifically the fourth commandment, of Exodus 20:1-17. Churches of Christ are to be complimented highly because they understand (or did understand, since I'm not so sure anymore) there is a difference in law and gospel, and so the Ten Commandments must be understood in light of New Testament teaching.

The linchpins of the Old Testament are the Law--specifically the Sabbath and the Temple, and Jesus understood these as symbols of the New Covenant, where the legalism was taken away, and the Sabbath is usurped by liberty and benevolence, and the Temple, by the universal message of the Gospel which was to be taken to all nations, without help from the high priests of Jerusalem.

 
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Donnie
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 20 2017, 11:55 AM 

There's so much to cover, even though the subject matter of this thread is specifically about the sabbath day. The sabbath day to be remembered and kept holy is one of the Ten Commandments. And what does the New Testament say about the old law?

Thanks so much for your message and what it covers.

For now I'd like to comment on your statement: "Churches of Christ are to be complimented highly because they understand (or did understand, since I'm not so sure anymore) there is a difference in law and gospel, and so the Ten Commandments must be understood in light of New Testament teaching."

That statement is remarkable!!! I'd like to believe and hope that members of the church of Christ are still being taught or have learned and still understand the difference in law and gospel. But I question the veracity of that knowledge based on the sources now being used in our "Bible" studies -- sources coming from denominational religious bodies, human philosophy and psychology.

If the difference in law and gospel is taught and understood well, should there even be a question or debate as to whether or not there is such a thing as the "Christian sabbath" being specific to a particular day? Hmmm. Maybe that was a "trick" question? Maybe not.

 
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William
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 20 2017, 8:29 PM 

I forgot to identify myself.

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 21 2017, 1:55 AM 

William, it appears that a post from you is missing (was inadvertently not submitted or published)? Would you resubmit? Thanks. D.C.

 
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William
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24.153.50.147

Sabbath and worship

July 23 2017, 4:28 AM 

Early Jewish Christians had an attachment to the Sabbath. Remember that John 19:31 was written somewhat into the “Christian era” and was meant to have meaning to Jewish Christians at that time.
Early Christians went daily house to house. Acts 2:42 ff is clearly in a religious context, although the word “worship” is not used. Is there a place where the word “worship” is used in tandem with the “assembly”? I have not done a study on this, but mostly worship seems to be individual, even when individuals are joining with other individuals for worship. Paul speaks of going up to Jerusalem for worship (Acts 24:11), where he would have joined others. And at his trial “But I confess this to you— that according to the Way which they call a sect, thus I am worshiping the God of my ancestors.” Nothing to do with the “worship service.” I wait to hear someone describe a Biblical worship service.
In fact, in Acts 20, “And on the first day of the week, we having been gathered together to break bread …”, not having been gathered together for "worship." Although many want to see the “Lord’s Supper” in the term “breaking bread,” if I invite you to my house to break bread you would not expect the Lord’s Supper. It is clear from 1 Cor. that the gathering meals included the Lord's Supper, although abused by the Corinthians. Our patternest view says that Christian assemblies had sermons, but I am not sure that Paul’s speech was literally a sermon (the best precedent for Acts 20 is falling asleep during a long sermon).

 
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Ken Sublett
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24.151.202.16

Re: Sabbath and worship

July 23 2017, 2:31 PM 

but I am not sure that Paul’s speech was literally a sermon (the best precedent for Acts 20 is falling asleep during a long sermon).

I have been faithful to that example!

The "teaching" part of the service consisted mainly in reading a section from the law, with which the reading of a portion from the prophets, and a sermon, or address, were conjoined.

The later rabbis developed a law against "allegorizing." That is, the sermon was simply the explanation of those portions of the Scripture read and was often directed to questions.

"Although the sermon was not an essential part of the synagogue service, the translation and explanation of the Scripture lesson was a step in the direction of a preaching service. There is evidence that an exposition of the lesson formed a part of the Sabbath afternoon service. In earliest times the sermon seems to have been connected with the reading from the Prophets. Anyone able to instruct might be asked to preach (Acts 13:15). The preacher spoke from a sitting position on an elevated place (Luke 4:20). (Feiffer, Charles F., Between the Testaments, p. 63 Baker Book House).


Example: Jesus stood up to READ and then SAT DOWN for any DIALOG.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jul 23, 2017 4:35 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Sabbath and worship

July 23 2017, 6:53 PM 

We can validate the universal history of the Bible about music because we have exact dates when various parts were imposed and caused discord. In the same way we can validate the Scriptures outlawing "rhetoric, singing or instruments" by the very way people understood the Word or Logos. We know when and why making sermons was introduced and it was not in Scripture. Certain trained speakers discovered that people would make them rich and famous by telling Bible stories according to their imagination.

The church in Troas did not meet at 9 in the morning: most would work until dark. Jesus needed to let Paul see Him and hear His voice to qualify Him for teaching. Jesus as Spirit promised to appear to Paul when needed. Even so, the emphasis is not on preaching as making up sermons refusing to let Jesus speak but He taught and then DIALOGED:

"DIALEGOMAI primarily denotes to ponder, resolve in one's mind; then, to converse, dispute, discuss, discourse with; most frequently, to reason or dispute with." In Acts 20:7 and 9 "the A.V. (KJV) translates it 'preached,' this the R.V. corrects to 'discoursed,' lit., 'dialogued,' i.e. not by way of a sermon, but by a discourse of a more conversational character." (Vine, p. 319).

"The latter part of the fourth and the first half of the fifth centuries was above all others an age of great preachers in the ancient church...In form it was often highly rhetorical, and the hearers manifested their approval by applause. Yet, while this preacher was probably never excelled, preaching was by no means general, and in many country districts, or even considerable cities, few sermons were to be heard." (Walker, Williston, Hist of Ch. Ch., Charles Scribner's Sons, 1918 p. 167-168)

"The bombastic rhetoric which had ruled in the Roman world since the death of Cicero was now introduced into the Christian pulpit, and the congregation burst forth in applause extravagant enough for a welcome to a chief returning from the conquest of a new province." (John Fletcher Hurst, History of the Christian Church, vol. I., p. 357). "With the victory of Christianity and the development of the service came a soaring of the sermon. Preaching became more frequent, being employed even during the week and during fast seasons in some places daily.

As the Church during that period assimilated more and more Greco-Roman culture, the sermon developed para passu. The most noted Christian preachers had not seldom been educated in the rhetorical schools of the heathen, and employed in their sermons the rule of rhetoric and the artistic effects taught there, and polish became almost an end, often giving more brilliancy than warmth. The hearers came to look for esthetic satisfaction rather than for edification, leaving after the sermon and before the Eucharist." (The New Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Preaching, p. 150, Period 300-450 A. D.). "In the East the sermon was often imaginative, poetic, even bombastic and wordy; in the West the rhetoric was more sober, and the sermon practical, simple, and clear." (The New Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Preaching, p. 150).


There are many homilies written by true Bible Scholars and read in public. Some are still valuable. Most of my early experience was by sober-minded people teaching the Bible fully. Many were topical (now despised) but just as valid.

When we speak of the great apostasy we slip past "the law of giving" neither condoned by the Bible nor most early scholars. As well, we slip by fabricating sermons by using a verse or two while spending all of the time talking about their own experiences or interpreting based on OUR CHANGED CULTURE.


 
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Scripture
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Re: Sabbath and worship

July 24 2017, 10:36 AM 

In response to William, it is all too typical for announcements to be made, after which the announcer says "Now let us begin worship."

Then we have a series of worship songs, usually call "praise songs." These songs are generally all directed to(ward) God with little self-improvement and self-edification, and normally the complete absence of conversion songs. The praise team kicks in, and the audience (trapped worshipers) are asked to stand on their feet for three or four songs.

Normally the songs are those derived from about 1980 or later, with the traditional hymns only a small minority of the songs. The traditional hymns found in the humnals do contain a fairly even distribution of conversion, reflection, duty, and other themes than just praise songs. But these themes are considered irrelevant to today's commercial processing of those who come to worship.

I suspect that William worships in such an environment, as do most readers of this thread.

In some churches, when the "worship" is over, there used to be a final song [to end the worship] and then no telling what is going to take place--items that are not classified as worship, but which are either entertaining and secular or whatever.

I would say that Williams thinks the "Now let us begin worship" should not be stated.

Many churches which fit this pattern are in the process of "transitioning," but are not clear about what this means. One church is in the process of lowering its pulpits and installing a flat 5 inch high stage to accommodate what is not quite clear. These changes look like the Jimmy Swaggert stage. Often the Lord's Table is considered a distraction, and it may be placed in the back of the auditorium, so this "sacrament" no longer is the focal point, but the stage antics become the attraction. In some churches the baptistry is placed in the foyer.

Rather than extend the invitation at the end of the sermon, the audience is instructed "if there is any way we can help you, let us know. The shepherds are in the foyer to give counsel." The "sacrament" of baptism is not mentioned.

The Lord's Supper (called Communion by the transition teams) and baptism seem to be an artifacts rather than working agents.

At the same time, the preacher often says that all the accomplishments of the church members have not been achieved by them, but by the "Holy Spirit" who opens doors and gives growth. The congregation is also informed that the Lord's Supper is not to be a solemn feast of introspection, but an opportunity to TALK to the person next to you all about the preceding week and about the Lord's and Holy Spirit operation. In some churches, members are asked to take a stone at the start of the worship period, and during the Lord's Supper to bring it forward and place it near the Lord's Table. This is to indicate that the "stone" (hindrance) in the worshiper's life is to be removed during this Supper. These comments may be given by a preacher in his 20s who says he knows more about 1 Corinthians 11 and 12 than all the people who have studied these passages for half a century.



 
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William
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24.153.50.147

Sabbath and Worship

July 27 2017, 12:03 AM 

I have not attended a congregation where announcements were made first in years. Used to. In fact, at Charlotte Ave. announcements were moved from the end of the service to the beginning because it was concluded that announcements were not part of the "worship service", and they did not want people confused, so announcements and an opening prayer to begin the "worship service". 1955-56, somewhere in there. My current congregation has announcements at the end by one of the elders, then the "shepherd's prayer". Used to be that some male member of the congregation had the duty of announcements and closing prayer, but the elders felt like they needed more control over the announcements. I do not know of any Biblical example, so quiet where the Bible is quiet.
Our "song service" is a mix out of the Paperless Hymnal/Songs of Faith and Praise. Like many, I do not exactly care for many of the selections in this hymnal, but mostly I consider that opinion. If I have an issue with a song I just don't sing. Nobody notices. "As The Deer" has kind of a love song like quality to it, but I believe there is a love song published in the Bible. Why not sing a love song to God? I have attended as a guest a few "community" churches that seemed to be patterned out of the Assemblies of God where the repetition of simple phrases accompanied by arm waving, clapping, standing, etc., worked the attendants into a near frenzy. I did not get it.
I think most of the time when people say "worship service" they have not thought about it much. There i a decreasing "wing" of the Church that declines Sunday School among other things, in part because they feel that everything that goes on inside the doors is "worship" and there is no command or example for Sunday School.
Note Acts 20 again. They came together on Saturday night. The Jewish Sabbath would have been over (or ending). If you were Jewish this would have been the evening of the first day, but if you were Roman it would have been the night of the seventh day, the first day beginning about the time Eutychus fell out the window.
Paul had no problems working on the first day. Apparently, Paul left on the First Day to head down to a port to catch a ship.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 20 2017, 10:43 PM 

God doesn't get tired but He rested on the seventh day because all of the work had been done. The Sabbath means to rest after 6 days of work. That probably was to prevent the landlords from making the people work without ceasing.

Ex. 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Defile is the Chalal form or Halal: to defile,

2490. chalal, (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively, to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an “opening wedge”); denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute):—begin (x men began), defile, x break, defile, x eat (as common things), x first, x gather the grape thereof, x take inheritance, pipe, PLAYER on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound

Ex. 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

Ex. 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you:
every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death:
for whosoever doeth any work therein,
that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

KEEP the sabbath never meant WORSHIP on the REST day for the spiritual people of God.

Keep: H8104 shâmar shaw-mar' A primitive root; properly to hedge about (as with thorns), that is, guard; generally to protect, attend to, etc.:—beware, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep (-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch (-man).

Keep in Latin: Custodio II. With the access. idea of hindering free motion, A. In gen., to hold something back, to preserve, keep:

To keep precepts or laws: Regula a rule, pattern, measuring rod, formula sermonis
Loquor to speak, talk, say (sermo in the lang. of common life, in the tone of conversation

Custodio: hold something back, preserve, hinder free motion, watch, preserve. hold back simulation.

Simulatio hold back . a falsely assumed appearance, a false show, feigning, shamming, pretence, feint, insincerity, deceit, hypocrisy, simulation, pretend to be under a divine command.

WORK WHICH WAS INCLUDED:

4397. mal}ak, mal-awk´; from an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically, of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher):—ambassador, angel, king, messenger.


 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 21 2017, 1:48 AM 

Ken: "KEEP the sabbath never meant WORSHIP on the REST day for the spiritual people of God."

Yes, under the Old Testament law, it was a specific directive that since: "Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD..." (Exodus 31:15) --

-- Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death (Exo. 31:15).
-- Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day (Exo. 35:3).
-- A man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day ... would be put to death (Num. 15:32ff)
-- No buying or selling (Neh. 10:31).
-- That there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day (Neh. 13:15).

There's no indication of worship on the sabbath day as it was a day of complete rest -- no activity or labor whatsoever. If there were any Praise Team activity/labor/work or performance, how different would that be from the man who gathered sticks upon the sabbath day and being put to death?

 
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Scripture
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 21 2017, 8:43 AM 

Great point! The differences in the days are immense. One is a rest day, the other possible workday.

I noticed in a study of Luke 24, that Jesus arose on the first day of the week. Verse 1.

On that same day,two disciples were on the way to Emmaus. Verse 13.

In verse 30, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and offered it to His disciples. Notice the pattern of breaking and eating bread, a pattern often repeated in the Gospels.

THEN, THEIR EYES WERE OPENED. Verse 31.

These verses are prescience to the Lord's Supper as reported in the books of Acts, and instituted earlier in the Gospels.

Jesus had apparently opened their eyes earlier concerning the resurrection gift. Verse 32. Their "hearts were on fire" as he had talked with them earlier on this trip to Emmaus.

RIGHT NOW MEDIA will lead us AWAY from the weekly observance of this Lord's Supper. The Elders want to control what literature the church if reading.



 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 21 2017, 10:05 AM 

After people work five days to earn a living and 1 day to revive and work at home, the first day of the week may be the most works-intensive day of the week. Money is stored up work and the tithers and the lay-bys want you to give ten percent of your GROSS income. The tithe of food only from rented farms was based on net income. Most honest workers have little to no increase in their wealth.

I don't know the chronology but Jesus returned "at the next appointed" on the next first day of the week. Some one can figure that out

Paul understood that he was going to wait a week before people showed up on purpose.

Acts 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Acts 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.


When Paul "preached" the word is:

g1256. dialegomai, dee-al-eg´-om-ahee; middle voice from 1223 and 3004; to say thoroughly, i.e. discuss (in argument or exhortation): — dispute, preach (unto), reason (with), speak. write in prose, opposite poiein,

The assemblies are always on the first day of the week and by contrast when Paul wanted to speak to the Jews he knew to show up on the seventh day.

People don't travel specifically on the First Day of the week just for potluck. The Lord's Supper shows forth or "preaches" the death of Jesus which should silence everyone but the presiding elder who reads while everyone who wanted to LEARN were silent. Jesus through men like Paul has supplied all of the allowed teaching resources.

Those who observe the supper once a month or once a year are Purpose Driven to silence Jesus because they always insist on several days of the week to listen to them or "lay by in store."

Sunday was a work day and Christians at troas met in the evening. Mithras or Sun worship gave the Romans the seventh day to rest or revel. When Constantine gave the Christians the first day for rest, they did not ever shift from the sabbath.

 
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Rancor
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Scripture

July 22 2017, 10:01 AM 




2 Peter 1:20 Context

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 
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Donnie
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: 'No prophey of scripture is of any private interpretation'

July 22 2017, 12:40 PM 

Thanks for bringing up the context that "Jesus Christ" received FROM "God the Father" honor and glory and that "God" said about Jesus: "This is my beloved Son."

God "the Father" is not Jesus Christ "the Son OF God" -- that remains as truth and must not be privately interpreted; and that truth is found in numerous passages throughout The Scripture. [I know, I know how you feel about "Scripture" ... but he is just fine. happy.gif d.c.]


 
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Dave
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Donnie's Lofic VS the Word of God

July 23 2017, 8:56 AM 

Man's logic (Donnie Cruz) states, that since God, the Father of Jesus Christ, is not Jesus Christ, then LOGICALLY SPEAKING...Jesus Chris cannot be God.

That is man's logic and privately falsely interpreted.

Scriptures attest to Jesus being God. John 1 versus 1 through 14 and many many more.


 
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Donnie
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Dave's Logic vs. What God Said

July 25 2017, 12:33 PM 

God said about Jesus: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Rancor accurately quoted the scripture from II Peter 1:17.

There are countless references in Scripture to support the free truth that Jesus is the Son of God (some 50 times), as well as the Son of man (89 times in the N.T.). [You will not find either expression in the O.T. and can never be in reference to God, since Jesus was born only 2 millennia ago.

Jesus addressed his Father as "my God"; and Jesus is now at the right hand of God.

Dave's logic (that Jesus is co-God) is his logic, and his every attempt to supersede and complicate God's simple truth will never work.


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 21 2017, 10:39 PM 

There is both secular and biblical evidence that the REST days let people engage in pretty vile practices. The history of the Synagogue shows that they were often places to see and be seen and to pick up a secular partner.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jul 21, 2017 11:19 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: Which Day Is the 'Christian' Sabbath: Saturday or Sunday?

July 23 2017, 12:38 PM 

Jesus said that God was SPIRIT without Flesh and Bones.
Jesus said that the was the Son of God made of Flesh and Bones.
God didn't BECOME flesh and bone: His WORD became flesh in the Flesh and Bones MOUTH of Jesus Christ: His lips are "double-edged swords."

Here is a short list of what became flesh in the same sense that God IS LIGHT became flesh.

[linked image]

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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