Is Jesus a Myth?July 22 2017 at 8:30 AM
|Rancor (no login)|
from IP address 184.108.40.206
Just a reminder for some on this site.
Is Jesus a myth?
Question: "Is Jesus a myth? Is Jesus just a copy of the pagan gods of other ancient religions?"
Answer: There are a number of people claiming that the accounts of Jesus as recorded in the New Testament are simply myths borrowed from pagan folklore, such as the stories of Osiris, Dionysus, Adonis, Attis, and Mithras. The claim is that these myths are essentially the same story as the New Testament’s narrative of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. As Dan Brown claims in The Da Vinci Code, “Nothing in Christianity is original.”
To discover the truth about the claim that the Gospel writers borrowed from mythology, it is important to (1) unearth the history behind the assertions, (2) examine the actual portrayals of the false gods being compared to Christ, (3) expose any logical fallacies being made, and (4) look at why the New Testament Gospels are trustworthy depictions of the true and historical Jesus Christ.
The claim that Jesus was a myth or an exaggeration originated in the writings of liberal German theologians in the nineteenth century. They essentially said that Jesus was nothing more than a copy of popular dying-and-rising fertility gods in various places—Tammuz in Mesopotamia, Adonis in Syria, Attis in Asia Minor, and Horus in Egypt. Of note is the fact that none of the books containing these theories were taken seriously by the academics of the day. The assertion that Jesus was a recycled Tammuz, for example, was investigated by contemporary scholars and determined to be completely baseless. It has only been recently that these assertions have been resurrected, primarily due to the rise of the Internet and the mass distribution of information from unaccountable sources.
This leads us to the next area of investigation—do the mythological gods of antiquity really mirror the person of Jesus Christ? As an example, the Zeitgeist movie makes these claims about the Egyptian god Horus:
• He was born on December 25 of a virgin: Isis Mary
• A star in the East proclaimed his arrival
• Three kings came to adore the newborn “savior”
• He became a child prodigy teacher at age 12
• At age 30 he was “baptized” and began a “ministry”
• Horus had twelve “disciples”
• Horus was betrayed
• He was crucified
• He was buried for three days
• He was resurrected after three days
However, when the actual writings about Horus are competently examined, this is what we find:
• Horus was born to Isis; there is no mention in history of her being called “Mary.” Moreover, “Mary” is our Anglicized form of her real name, Miryam or Miriam. “Mary” was not even used in the original texts of Scripture.
• Isis was not a virgin; she was the widow of Osiris and conceived Horus with Osiris.
• Horus was born during month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), not December 25. Further, there is no mention in the Bible as to Christ’s actual birth date.
• There is no record of three kings visiting Horus at his birth. The Bible never states the actual number of magi that came to see Christ.
• Horus is not a “savior” in any way; he did not die for anyone.
• There are no accounts of Horus being a teacher at the age of 12.
• Horus was not “baptized.” The only account of Horus that involves water is one story where Horus is torn to pieces, with Isis requesting the crocodile god to fish him out of the water.
• Horus did not have a “ministry.”
• Horus did not have 12 disciples. According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four demigods that followed him, and there are some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him.
• There is no account of Horus being betrayed by a friend.
• Horus did not die by crucifixion. There are various accounts of Horus’ death, but none of them involve crucifixion.
• There is no account of Horus being buried for three days.
• Horus was not resurrected. There is no account of Horus coming out of the grave with the body he went in with. Some accounts have Horus/Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and then becoming the lord of the underworld.
When compared side by side, Jesus and Horus bear little, if any, resemblance to one another.
Jesus is also compared to Mithras by those claiming that Jesus Christ is a myth. All the above descriptions of Horus are applied to Mithras (e.g., born of a virgin, being crucified, rising in three days, etc.). But what does the Mithras myth actually say?
• He was born out of a solid rock, not from any woman.
• He battled first with the sun and then with a primeval bull, thought to be the first act of creation. Mithras killed the bull, which then became the ground of life for the human race.
• Mithras’s birth was celebrated on December 25, along with winter solstice.
• There is no mention of his being a great teacher.
• There is no mention of Mithras having 12 disciples. The idea that Mithras had 12 disciples may have come from a mural in which Mithras is surrounded by the twelve signs of the zodiac.
• Mithras had no bodily resurrection. Rather, when Mithras completed his earthly mission, he was taken to paradise in a chariot, alive and well. The early Christian writer Tertullian did write about Mithraic cultists re-enacting resurrection scenes, but this occurred well after New Testament times, so if any copycatting was done, it was Mithraism copying Christianity.
More examples can be given of Krishna, Attis, Dionysus, and other mythological gods, but the result is the same. In the end, the historical Jesus portrayed in the Bible is unique. The alleged similarities of Jesus’ story to pagan myths are greatly exaggerated. Further, while tales of Horus, Mithras, and others pre-date Christianity, there is very little historical record of the pre-Christian beliefs of those religions. The vast majority of the earliest writings of these religions date from the third and fourth centuries A.D. To assume that the pre-Christian beliefs of these religions (of which there is no record) were identical to their post-Christian beliefs is naive. It is more logical to attribute any similarities between these religions and Christianity to the religions’ copying Christian teaching about Jesus.
This leads us to the next area to examine: the logical fallacies committed by those claiming that Christianity borrowed from pagan mystery religions. We’ll consider two fallacies in particular: the fallacy of the false cause and the terminological fallacy.
If one thing precedes another, some conclude that the first thing must have caused the second. This is the fallacy of the false cause. A rooster may crow before the sunrise every morning, but that does not mean the rooster causes the sun to rise. Even if pre-Christian accounts of mythological gods closely resembled Christ (and they do not), it does not mean they caused the Gospel writers to invent a false Jesus. Making such a claim is akin to saying the TV series Star Trek caused the NASA Space Shuttle program.
The terminological fallacy occurs when words are redefined to prove a point. For example, the Zeitgeist movie says that Horus “began his ministry,” but the word ministry is being redefined. Horus had no actual “ministry”—nothing like that of Christ’s ministry. Those claiming a link between Mithras and Jesus talk about the “baptism” that initiated prospects into the Mithras cult, but what was it actually? Mithraic priests would place initiates into a pit, suspend a bull over the pit, and slit the bull’s stomach, covering the initiates in blood and gore. Such a practice bears no resemblance whatsoever to Christian baptism—a person going under water (symbolizing the death of Christ) and then coming back out of the water (symbolizing Christ’s resurrection). But advocates of a mythological Jesus deceptively use the same term, “baptism,” to describe both rites in hopes of linking the two.
This brings us to the subject of the truthfulness of the New Testament. No other work of antiquity has more evidence to its historical veracity than the New Testament. The New Testament has more writers (nine), better writers, and earlier writers than any other existing document from that era. Further, history testifies that these writers went to their deaths claiming that Jesus had risen from the dead. While some may die for a lie they think is true, no person dies for a lie he knows to be false. Think about it—if you were threatened with crucifixion, as tradition says happened to the apostle Peter, and all you had to do to save your life was renounce a lie you had knowingly told, what would you do?
In addition, history has shown that it takes at least two generations to pass before myth can enter a historical account. That’s because, as long as there are eyewitnesses to an event, errors can be refuted and mythical embellishments can be exposed. All the Gospels of the New Testament were written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses, with some of Paul’s Epistles being written as early as A.D. 50. Paul directly appeals to contemporary eyewitnesses to verify his testimony (1 Corinthians 15:6).
The New Testament attests to the fact that, in the first century, Jesus was not mistaken for any other god. When Paul preached in Athens, the elite thinkers of that city said, “‘He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities,’—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, ‘May we know what this new teaching is which you are proclaiming? For you are bringing some strange things to our ears; so we want to know what these things mean’” (Acts 17:18–20, NASB). Clearly, if Paul were simply rehashing stories of other gods, the Athenians would not have referred to his doctrine as a “new” and “strange” teaching. If dying-and-rising gods were plentiful in the first century, why, when the apostle Paul preached Jesus rising from the dead, did the Epicureans and Stoics not remark, “Ah, just like Horus and Mithras”?
In conclusion, the claim that Jesus is a copy of mythological gods originated with authors whose works have been discounted by academia, contain logical fallacies, and cannot compare to the New Testament Gospels, which have withstood nearly 2,000 years of intense scrutiny. The alleged parallels between Jesus and other gods disappear when the original myths are examined. The Jesus-is-a-myth theory relies on selective descriptions, redefined words, and false assumptions.
Jesus Christ is unique in history, with His voice rising above all false gods’ as He asks the question that ultimately determines a person’s eternal destiny: “Who do you say I am?” (Matthew 16:15).
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 12:53 PM |
This site will continue to present messages to guard AGAINST myths. These messages presented here usually provide clear illustrations, pictures and images from various historical sources. (You know how easy it is to copy-and-paste. That's we do here: copy-and-paste because we're not good artists. How convenient indeed!)
Do you think that we should provide more of these images?
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 1:42 PM |
A Christian or Disciple will understand that Jesus is defined as the ANTITHESIS of all pagans.
That is why Jesus called trinitarians BLASPHEMERS and John called them ANTICHRIST.
Most religionism is based on the Roman Catholics who drew their picture of the mother and child from Isis and Horus.
Apis the golden calf or calves represented Osiris, Isis and Horus: the pagan trinity of father, mother and son.
Horus was the posthumous son and heir of the god Osiris, the primordial king and giver of life. He was invited by his uncle, Seth, to spend a day. Seth’s real motive was not to show him hospitality but to disqualify him from inheriting his father’s royal power. To this end, while Horus slept Seth committed an act of sodomy upon him. Since sodomy was inflicted as a punishment on a defeated enemy and was a symbol of domination, Seth could then claim that he had conquered Horus and demand the kingship in his place.
Historically, the rape of males was more widely recognized in ancient times. Several of the legends in Greek mythology involved abductions and sexual assaults of males by other males or gods. The rape of a defeated male enemy was considered the special right of the victorious soldier in some societies and was a signal of the totality of the defeat. There was a widespread belief that a male who was sexually penetrated, even if it was by forced sexual assault, thus "lost his manhood," and could no longer be a warrior or ruler. Gang rape of a male was considered an ultimate form of punishment and, as such, was known to the Romans as punishment for adultery and the Persians and Iranians as punishment for violation of the sanctity of the harem (Donaldson, 1990). Donaldson, Donald. (1990). "Rape of Males," in Dynes, Wayne, ed. Encyclopedia of Homosexuality. New York: Garland Publications.
Historical Scholars understand that the FRUITS in the garden of Eden is that Satan "wholly seduced Eve as one seduces a young bride" and "Cain was OF that wicked one: a son of perdition or a Judas. Adam was not seduced but was still sodomized. Reproaches of Jesus means to expose his nakedness and that is what happened.
David's PRAISE word carries that ugly meaning: to make self VILE.
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 1:48 PM |
That did not take long. Goodbye!
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 3:26 PM |
I have a question for you:
In our trying to understand mythology and its effect upon religion, what's the difference in presentation between:
(1) the entire [lengthy] article you quoted from gotquestions.org mentioning Horus, Isis, Osiris and others
------------------ and ---------------------
(2) the post above yours quoting from a historical source: Horus, Isis, and legends in Greek mythology?
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 2:41 PM |
Paul in Romans 1 speaks of the worship of the golden calf which represented the Egyptian Trinity of Osiris, Isis and Horus. It is logical that the always pagan trinities are guilty of the vilest of practices.
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:21
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves,
being not baptized of him. Luke 7:30
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; John 12:42
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:22
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Rom 1:23
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Rom 1:24
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Rom 1:25
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom 1:26
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Rom 1:27
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:28
And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Acts 7:41
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? Acts 7:42
One who believes that Jesus is the Christ of God or the Son of God is JUSTIFIED because FAITH leads to FAITHFULNESS or a righteous life. One who IS righteous DOES righteousness. However, being righteous or having faith gives one the POWER to become a child of God but DOES NOT make one into a child of God.
On the other hand, we have noted that people who refused to accept the Righteousness of Christ by refusing his command to be baptized were condemned and defined as UNBELIEVERS or "Apistos." That means that:
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Rom 1:29
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Rom 1:30
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Rom 1:31
Who, knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Rom 1:32
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 1:43 PM |
Donnie, you are the lead moderator. It's your call. If I don't like it I will just leave. Fair enough?
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 3:42 PM |
I do not have the wisdom [ ] of Solomon, but here's my personal judgment: You don't have to like it and don't leave.
You may not be a Fox News contributor, but you are here. We may not always agree, nonetheless we value varying opinions and ideations. Simply: feel free to opine or ideate.
Re: Is Jesus a Myth?
|July 22 2017, 4:22 PM |
Eve said she had gotten a MAN from the Lord: Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced and that Cain was OF that wicked one. By some kind of backdoor resources it is claimed that Judas Sicarri the son of Simon has the same meaning as Cain. He is the Son of Perdition.
Trinitarians like Lucado says that God sent a veil of light into Mary and out came Jesus. The origin is the tripple goddess and then the father, spirit (mother dove) and little bad son.
In legend Osiris was cut up and put into an ARK that floated away: Isis was able to collect all of the parts but the penis so a wodden one was made and Isis SELF SEEDED.
Scripture almost always has come evil pagan counterpart where God supplies only the true. People who hear A spirit or see visions and are dragged off into the monkish woods by dominant university ladies become post-modern or SELF SEEDED.
They are the viper or crooked race for whom the baptism of the Spirit OF Judgment and the Spirit OF BURNING.
Is. 33:10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted;
.....now will I lift up myself. [Worship teams: don't try that]
Is. 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble:
.....your breath [SPIRIT], as fire, shall devour you.
Is. 33:12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime:
.....as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Is. 33:13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
Is. 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid;
.....fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites.
Hypocrites are speakers, singers, instrument players or actors.
.....Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
.....who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Please don't GET PREGNANT ON CHAFF in the morning when the Word of Christ is FREE OF CHARGE.
1Cor. 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cor. 3:12 Now if any man build upon [Educate] this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Cor. 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
Is the Trinity Dogma a Myth About Jesus?
|July 25 2017, 2:55 PM |
An excellent thread, Rancor!
Whether or not there is a debate about the birthplace of Jesus being Nazareth or Bethlehem, there's no debate about his birth 2 millennia ago.
There are those who contend that God became flesh when Jesus was born and are led to believe that God was born 2 millennia ago. This credence is controversial and fallacious.
It is indeed FALLACIOUS to state that:
The myth that Jesus IS God (rather than that Jesus IS THE IMAGE OF the invisible God), of course, was originated by the Roman Catholic Church and strongly based on paganism. Just pay attention to the RCC and papal argument and fallacy:
(1) God was prophesied to become a baby/child/son [misinterpreted Isa. 9:6];
(2) God was prophesied to reign and govern upon the throne of David (Isa. 9);
(3) God was prophesied to be called (named) "Prince of Peace" (Isa. 9:6);
(4) God sent Himself as the Messiah;
(5) God was born of Mary;
(6) God was a descendant of David;
(7) God to be crucified;
(8) God to die;
(9) God to be resurrected; and
(0) God to now be sitting on the right hand of God (Himself). Huh???
1. That Jesus is God;
OK, let's hear first from others who are not against the Pope's logic based on the 1st premise: that Jesus is God.
2. That Jesus was born of the virgin Mary;
3. Therefore, that the Virgin Mary is [still] the Mother of God.
Re: Is the Trinity Dogma a Myth About Jesus?
|July 25 2017, 4:31 PM |
Donnie, as often as you drift from one thread to another repetitively reciting that Jesus is not God, you apparently need that repetition to convince yourself that Jesus is not God. With the exception of a few like you, Ken, and perhaps Scripture and Dianna, the rest of us have no problem believing that Jesus IS God.
Jesus was sent to rescue a TINY FLOCK OF LOST SPIRITS: HIS BROTHERS.
|July 25 2017, 5:38 PM |
MOST people believe in polytheism because they are OF the WORLD and are NOT the lost sheep God sent Jesus and true evangelists to seek and save." Jude would say that to be FOREORDAINED. So, don't worry if you cannot confess that "Jesus is the CHRIST the SON of the Living God." Jesus NAME was called that of HIS FATHER:
John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are NOT of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; BUT FOR BLASPHEMY; and because that thou, being a MAN, makest thyself God.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou BLASPHEMEST; because I said, I am the SON OF GOD?
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 220.127.116.11 on Jul 25, 2017 5:39 PM|
The Common/Standard Logic of: (1) That, (2) That and (3) Therefore
|July 25 2017, 5:42 PM |
It's really easy to make a statement:
----- THAT Jesus is God or
----- THAT God is Jesus or
----- THAT God the Father is the "beloved Son" or
----- THAT the "beloved Son" is God the Father.
That's the main premise of the Roman Catholic Church dogma: THAT Jesus IS God.
Did you study the "THEREFORE" ... the Virgin Mary is God's Mother? Are you not going to refute the conclusion that the Virgin Mary is God's Mother?
BY Him, FOR Him, BEFORE ALL THINGS
|July 30 2017, 5:40 PM |
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
What we have here is NOT a FAILURE to communicate, but a failure to BELIEVE in God's Word.
Re: BY Him, FOR Him, BEFORE ALL THINGS
|July 30 2017, 7:11 PM |
Dave, I agree with the passage you quoted, as well as your last statement only.
(1) What is the difference between: (a) "who is the image of the invisible God" and (b) "who is God" ... since you prefer the latter? It sounds like you've made up the latter (b) and rejected the former (a).
(2) Do you really know the definition of the word "image"? If you have the "image" of your dad, are you Dave's dad?
(3) The word "by" in the original text is "through" which means that God created things THROUGH him -- that did not make Jesus as co-God and co-God creator.
(4) He is "before all things" speaks of Christ's position -- not "things" (rocks and trees, etc.) created by God. Verse 13 is speaking of the "kingdom" that according to prophecy, as in Isaiah 9:6, was to be established. Christ (in His position or rule) is superior to all "things" as he would be the king and ruler of his kingdom.
Context, Dave. Verse 13 is key to understanding Colossians 1.
|July 30 2017, 7:43 PM |
Your number 3
You still don't hold to the KJV Word of God. You have to live with that. Ev in Greek (NT original text) means 'in, by')
Your number 4
Before all things.....what do you not understand with ALL? All still means all....no 'contextual' problem here Donnie, bu the trouble being your denial of the Word.
This quote from your number 4 came from verse 17 ""Before all things, is followed by, "and by him all things consist."
That is interesting enough, isn't it Donnie.
"and by (or if you choose to change it to THROUGH) him all things consist. All things consist THROUGH Jesus.
You don't think that is enough to make Jesus equal with God? If not, you aren't really wanting to find the Truth.
Context, my foot.