Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?July 30 2017 at 5:48 PM
|Dave (no login)|
from IP address 184.108.40.206
If you accept the fact that Jesus is the Son of the Living God, and you want to make Jesus separate from God, then is Jesus just another god??? There is the One Living God, so is Jesus just a god? Is Jesus inferior to His Father?
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
So when we say that Jesus was given ALL power, does that stipulate that He is less than God???
He is either One with God, and therefore; GOD, or He is just another god, as Donnie Cruz has claimed.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 220.127.116.11 on Aug 22, 2017 12:57 PM|
Re: Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?
|July 30 2017, 6:25 PM |
1Cor. 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Cor. 15:21 For since by MAN came death, by MAN came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cor. 15:23 But every MAN in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor. 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cor. 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Cor. 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cor. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
When my wife leaves town she gives me FULL AUTHORITY but when she returns I give up my throne to my lovely wife and cat. Jesus is HEAD of His NEW CREATION purposed driven to sort out those reserved UNTO fire from those reserved FROM fire. However, He does not have authority over false teachers EXCEPT to make certain that they can NEVER SELL His Word. If you listen to songs and sermons He gives them full blather power.
1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus;
Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?
|July 30 2017, 6:42 PM |
So after Ken tells his tale trying to compare His human authority to that of Jesus, we see that he agrees with Donnie Cruz that Jesus is just a (god). Any other takes on this?
So Ken, also believes that our mediator, Jesus Christ, does NOT have ALL authority of God and in God. Colossians 1 verse 16 also states that, just as God is Creator, then so is Jesus.
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Re: Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?
|July 30 2017, 7:05 PM |
5 Who is the image of the INVISIBLE GOD, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by HIM were all things created,
The antecedent of HIM is the INVISIBLE GOD. Christ is the IMAGE of the Invisible God. Jesus is the firstborn (from the dead).
Col. 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
Col. 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace,
from God our Father
AND the Lord Jesus Christ.
Col. 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father
our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
The First Creation was DESTROYED BY WATER because it was such a Pig Sty: why would anyone think that Jesus of Nazareth created that which was DESTROYED BY WATER?
2Pet. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pet. 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
The first creation by the ELOHIM was cleaned up by the Lord [YHWY] God [Elohim]. That creation had to do with wind, fire, water and Air. The second creation consisted of SPIRITUAL things so that the Kingdom of God does not come with religious observations but with discipleship to Jesus Christ and His Word.
Mark 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 18.104.22.168 on Jul 31, 2017 6:40 PM|
It Ain't Rocket Science
|July 30 2017, 7:23 PM |
16 For BY HIM all things were created
HIM being Jesus, yes Ken, and???
So....with you quoting Mark 13 are you now doubting that Jesus was the Christ? I know you deny the Scriptures when you say that Jesus isn't God, but now you don't even believe that Jesus was the Son of God?
Oh, and the FIRST creation was never destroyed, as you claim. It was flooded, not destroyed.
Out of Context
|July 30 2017, 7:52 PM |
Genesis 9 states that the earth will never be DESTROYED by water again.
Definition of DESTROY
a : to put out of existence
The earth was still in existence after the flood.
Destroy in Genesis 9 was taken out of context here.
Is this what you mean by out of context Donne?
Re: Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?
|July 30 2017, 7:40 PM |
There are those who have extreme difficulty in understanding:
(1) That God is the sender and is not the Messiah;
(2) That the Messiah was sent as prophesied;
(3) That God did not send Himself to earth;
(4) That it was not God as the one crucified -- rather, it was Jesus His Son;
(5) That it was not God who suffered and died -- Jesus suffered and died;
(6) That it was not God who resurrected -- God raised Jesus from the dead;
(7) That it is not God who is at the right hand of God; the man Jesus is;
(8) That God is not the Son of God;
(9) That the Son of God is not God;
(*) ... just to mention a few.
|July 30 2017, 7:45 PM |
Donnie, you just can't stick to the Scripture at hand, can you?
Re: \+*-/Ramble ON
|July 30 2017, 8:13 PM |
I was responding to Ken's post.
Sorry about that, Dave. This happens due to a timing issue between a late/delayed approval (publishing) of a post and an automatic/immediate publication of a moderator's post. I would recommend publishing a pending post first. Ken?
Re: Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?
|July 30 2017, 8:01 PM |
(1) Jesus is not God [no scripture says that].
(2) Jesus is not co-God.
(3) Jesus is not another God.
(4) "All power is given unto me" does not make Jesus God.
(5) Let's leave (not alter) the truth when Jesus said: "for my Father is greater than I."
(6) Who made Jesus both Lord and Christ? God!!! (Acts 2:36)
(7) Jesus Christ is the IMAGE OF God (II Cor. 4:4)
(8) Jesus Christ is the IMAGE OF the invisible God (Col. 1:15)
Thank You Donnie
|July 30 2017, 8:12 PM |
Your number three, Donnie, proves beyond a doubt one thing....you are not into wanting to know the Truth.
Your (3) states "Jesus is not another God."
I didn't say that Jesus is not another GOD. You did.
I said that Jesus is not another (g)od. And metaphorically speaking, you are right. Jesus is not another God.
JESUS IS GOD, not ANOTHER GOD, and all Scripture attests to this.
You are also right that Jesus never claims that He is God.
He doesn't have to. He is to humble to make that claim.
What is Jesus???
|July 30 2017, 8:26 PM |
Donnie, you say that Jesus is not God. You say that Jesus is just a man (one of your last posts stated this). You believe that Jesus is the Son, and that God is the Father of Jesus. You believe that Jesus sits at the right hand of God.
Then either Jesus is God, or by your claim, He is a lower (g)od.
If Jesus is Deity, the very Son of God, then what is He? He can't be both God and a god. Which is He?
Re: What is Jesus???
|July 30 2017, 9:11 PM |
I would not expect the truth that "the Son of man" Jesus at the right hand of God (Acts 7:55,56; and several other passages) is God ... to be distorted.
If distorted, Hebrews 10:12 will immediately make the correction to that distortion: "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God."
If distorted, I Timothy 2:5 will also immediately make the correction to that distortion: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
And truly, Jesus is still making intercessions for us: "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us" (Romans 8:34).
Let's maintain the truth that: "... neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him" (John 13:16).
John 14:28 -- "I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
Re: Thank You Donnie
|July 30 2017, 8:40 PM |
That Jesus is another God -- that certainly is not coming from me. That sounds more like part of the Trinity theory/concept/creed: (1) that the Father is God; (2) that the Son of God is God; (3) that the Spirit of God is God -- "three-Gods-in-One"
As far as learning the truth or the desire to learn the truth is concerned, let's not limit ourselves to "acquired" learning or knowledge. By "acquired" it means "inherited" or learned-from-others knowledge.
The pagan-based Trinity dogma was invented by the bishops of Rome (apostatized from the N.T. church) and officially approved near the end of the 4th century. This man-made creed was acquired by most of the Protestant Churches, as well as by certain members of the church of Christ.
There's no confusion in what the Scripture speaks about Jesus, the Son of the living God. God made Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36). God gave Jesus ALL power in heaven and earth. That did not make the mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, God. A son (John Doe, Jr.), given ALL the inheritance by his father (John Doe, Sr.), does not become his father, does he, Dave?
Re: Thank You Donnie
|July 30 2017, 9:22 PM |
Sounds good to me:
I am the son of my father
Therefore, I am my father
My father is dead
Therefore I am dead
My children are the daughters of their father
Therefore my daughters are their father
I am their father
Therefore, I am not dead
Gal. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Therefore, we are all Abraham
Gal. 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
All believers are children of God
Therefore, we are all God.
There is no level of learning to convince those NOT OF FAITH that being the SON OF GOD doesn't make Jesus a junior God.
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own SON after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Therefore, Titus was really Paul. However, AND or KAI makes it impossible for the Lord Jesus to be God.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 22.214.171.124 on Jul 30, 2017 9:23 PM|
Re: Thank You Donnie
|July 30 2017, 9:35 PM |
I have no problem believing that Jesus is the Son of God AND that Jesus is also God at the same time. Those who claim that it is genetically impossible for a father to be the son and vice versa apply human attributes to God/Jesus, which limits His omnipotence. Those people fail to realize that physical, human genetics do not apply in the spiritual realm; nothing physical applies in the spiritual realm. Therefore, Jesus can be and IS God because, as we all know, all things are possible with God.
Is God the Father POSSIBLY 'of the Seed of David'?
|July 30 2017, 11:42 PM |
God would not abuse His power to alter events as in making what is "genetically impossible" POSSIBLE in order to accommodate anyone's passion for a long-held untruth/notion/tenet.
"All things are possible with God" does not make it possible for God to be made of the seed of David. The following and other passages clearly indicate that Jesus Christ is of the seed of David. Bill, are you serious about God -- the Father and God of Jesus Christ -- being "POSSIBLY" [your idea] "of the seed of David"?
John 7:42 -- Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Romans 1:3 -- Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
II Tim. 2:8 -- Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Re: Is God the Father POSSIBLY 'of the Seed of David'?
|July 31 2017, 12:50 AM |
Who said that you "makest thyself God? The Jews.
Who said that they BLASPHEMED? Jesus.
Why COULDN'T they believe Jesus Who said that He was the Son of God?
John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jesus was sent and sent EVANGELIST to sound the Good News and the Lost Spirits would respond.
How do we separate those NOT of THIS world from those OF This World for whom Jesus does not pray?
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his WORD were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
OR ADDED TO THE CHURCH BY CHRIST.
The WORD is the Logos or The Regulative Principle: it cannot be dispensed by rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or acting: it cannot be THE SIGN by personal opinions or personal experiences. You can build towers all day but by definition you will not reach the Lost Spirits because they will be "Outside of the city, suffering reproaches with Jesus, and accepting the invitation only heard by those God sent Jesus for to "Rest and come learn of ME."
You cannot believe anything about God unless the Son has revealed the Father to you: otherwise that is called hallucinating.
Did anyone hear the Word PREACHED by being READ today? I thought not.
Is Jesus a (g)od?
|July 31 2017, 12:31 AM |
So, Donnie, if Jesus is the Son of the ONE and ONLY God, and God is the Father of Jesus, then is Jesus a lower god to God?
If Jesus isn't God, then what is He? He can either be God, a god, or maybe just a mere man, as you suggest?
Which is Jesus?
In a post months ago, you believed that John 1 verse 1 taken in it's original text said that the Word was a (g)od. So do you still believe that Jesus is a (g)od, inferior to God?
Re: Is Jesus a (g)od?
|July 31 2017, 1:00 AM |
I told you that Jesus called trinitarians blasphemers and John called them Antichrists. That means that if I repeat it a google times you will never be able to grasp it or confess it.
1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and one mediator BETWEEN God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;
Jesus said that He was a MAN and the SON OF MAN: God said that He is not a MAN nor the SON of Man.
Jesus said that God was a SPIRIT without flesh and bones: He said that He was NOT a Spirit because He was made of FLESH AND BONES.
The NAME of the Mediator-Intercessor is "Jesus Christ the Righteous." Spirit is never a person nor the name of a person except in Latin Spiritus when personified was APOLLON. He is the leader of the Locusts or Muses performing on the stage at an ex-church of Christ near you.