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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

The Confusion Between Father and Son: Prevalent in Early Paganism ... and TODAY

September 2 2017, 2:27 PM 

The Origin of the Trinity: From Paganism to Constantine (Part 6)

Reference Notes

1. Hislop devotes the first 128 pages of his book The Two Babylons to proving that the Christian Trinity is directly descended from the ancient Babylonian trinity. In particular, he convincingly proves that the origin of the Babylonian trinity was the triad of Cush (the grandson of Noah), Semiramis (his wife), and Nimrod (their son). At the death of Cush, Semiramis married her son, Nimrod, and thus began the confusion between the father and son so prevalent in early paganism.

It is interesting to note that the Gnostics considered the Holy Spirit to be the ‘motherly mystery of God,’ based on its attributes. It is also interesting to note that a modern controversy wants to bring back the feminine side of the Trinity by making the Holy Spirit feminine. (This is a very weak argument based on the attributes of the Holy Spirit as Paraklete (comforter) and the fact that, in Hebrew grammar, the word for spirit, Ruach, is feminine.)

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Confusion Between Father and Son: Prevalent in Early Paganism ... and TODAY

September 2 2017, 8:26 PM 

"Contemporary Worship" is so disgustingly gender-Tender that up to half or more of the group flees at the sight and sound of "Worship Teams." They may not know that their very nature sends a cold chill all over you. Others ave noted both the Trinity and Music to the worship of the Mother harlot. In Revelation 18 she uses "lusted after fruits" and the singers, instrument players and all Craftsmen involved it claiming to PERFORM worship or bring God down are called SORCERERS and along with DOGS will be CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

Alexander Trinity in Union
http://www.piney.com/His21.html

The Sign of the Cross
http://www.piney.com/His56.html

Hislop on Instrumetal Music
http://www.piney.com/HislopMusic.html

1. The worship of the Christian Church has not been left to be determined by the mere judgments and imaginations of men. There are principles laid down, there are precepts given, there are examples recorded, which show the mind and will of Christ in this matter; and the statements of Paul, in regard to " will-worship " (Col. 2:18-23), decisively prove that those who violate the purity of Christian worship,

are not only those who introduce practices which God has forbidden,
but those who introduce what God has not authorised, or commanded.

There can be no meaning attached to the term, " will -worship," but that such "worship" rests, not on the "will" of God, but on the mere "will" or fancy of man.

Now, in opposition to the divine enunciation in regard to "will-worship," the Church of England has admitted into its articles this principle, that it belongs to "the Church," of her own authority, to " decree rites and ceremonies " (Article XX).

As a matter of historical fact, this principle was never agreed to by the Convocation that adopted the Thirty-nine Articles; this sentence being found neither in the first-printed edition of the Articles, nor in the draft of them that passed the Convocation, and which is still in existence, with the autograph signatures of the members; but is believed to have been surreptitiously inserted by the hand of Queen Elizabeth herself, who had much of the overbearing spirit of her father, Henry VIII., and who, as Head of the Church, which the English Constitution made her,was determined to have a pompous worship in that church, under her ecclesiastical control

But, however that clause was introduced, once introduced, it has been the grand means of overlaying that church with ceremonies which have no foundation in the Word of God, but are of the very essence of will-worship. Where, for instance, could any warrant be found in the Word of God,

for men wheeling to the east in the midst of their devotions,
making the sign of the cross in baptism,
or kneeling in the Lord's Supper?

Some of these things have been borrowed from the Papists, some from the Pagans, [2] but, assuredly, none of them from the Scriptures.

Where, also, in the worship of the Apostolic Church, is there the least hint of the use of instrumental music?In the Old Testament dispensation, such instrumental music was appointed in the service of God; but that was inseparably bound up with the worship of the Temple, which, says Paul, was

"a worldly sanctuary " (Heb. 9:1),
which, with its (Gal. 4:9) " beggarly elements " and "rudiments of this world" (Col. 2:20)
was intended to last only "until the time of reformation" (Heb. 9:10).

That "time of reformation" came, when the Lord Jesus appeared to abolish the "worldly sanctuary," and set up the more " spiritual" dispensation of the Gospel church.

The "worldly sanctuary" of Judaism, with its sacrifices, and incense, and instrumental music, had a "glory" for the time that the wisdom of God saw fit that it should last, that is, while the Church was under age (Gal. 4:1-3). But it had "no glory in comparison of the glory that excelleth," when the Church came to its full age,when the "worldly sanctuary" was done away,and when the spiritual sanctuary, or Gospel Church, was filled with the glorious indwelling of the fulness of the Spirit.

With the abrogation of the "worldly sanctuary,"the instrumental music, which, as much as the offering of sacrifice, was identified with it,and which was not used in the service of the synagogue, was equally abrogated.

So certain is it that the instrumental music of Judaism was identified with the Temple service, that the Jews themselves have, ever since the destruction of the Temple, till very recently, held it utterly unlawful to introduce such music into their synagogues; and when, about the beginning of the present century, an organ was, for the first time, introduced, nothing but the influential position of the individual concerned in its introduction, saved him from being summarily excommunicated. [3]


So THAT is why all of the music tribulation based on the claim that Churches of Christ REMOVED instruments because they were ignorant and evil is WHY they just have to BURN, BURN, BURN.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Sep 2, 2017 11:15 PM


 
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Dave
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71.77.134.128

Questions and Answers

September 3 2017, 12:43 AM 

Ken, you were talking about the sights and sounds of worship teams and that "They may not know that their very nature sends a cold chill all over you."

1-You have specified their nature being as being one of harlots and sorcerers and dogs. Dogs, being man's best friend would not seem to be of a bad nature, unless he is of a cujo nature. Did you want to revise your specified chill factors then?

2-Is there a medicine available for these chills? Would aspirin, tylenol, or ibuprofen work for the temp and chills?

3-You also mentioned that " up to half or more of the group flees..." What group do you mean here and you mention this group as being the ones who may not know. so explain who THEY are. If THEY flee then why are they still there? If they like it and stay then they aren't fleeing, right?

4-Lying in wait to deceive---does that mean that they are being deliberate, and what are they deliberately deceiving about?

Thanks for your time.

 
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Dave
(no login)
71.77.134.128

BURN

September 3 2017, 12:45 AM 

Are you happy that they will burn?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?

September 3 2017, 9:20 AM 

Hear the Spirit OF CHRIST:

[linked image]

http://www.piney.com/MuFemin.html

Ancient literature from Babylonian tablets and beyond agree with Johannes Quasten. In Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, beginning on page 41 He uses many of the church Fathers and Classical resources we also rely upon:

"Philodemus considered it paradoxical that music should be regarded as veneration of the gods while musicians were paid for performing this so-called veneration. Again, Philodemus held as self deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy. He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit.

He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.

Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did.

Similar opinions may be found in the writings of Philo. On one occasion he spoke of the Jewish "Feast of Fasting," used by the Greeks for the Day of Atonement:

"Now, many a man from the false religions, which are not ashamed of criticising what is noble, will ask: how can there be a feast without carousing and overeating, without the pleasant company of hosts and guests, without quantities of unmixed wine, without richly set tables and highly stacked provisions of everything that pertains to a banquet, without pageantry and jokes,

bantering and merry-making to the accompaniment of flutes and citharas, the sound of drums and cymbals and other effeminate and frivolous music of every king,

enkindling unbridled lusts with the help of the sense of hearing. For in and through the same [pleasures] those persons openly seek their joy, for what true joy is their they do not know.

Women's singing was a vital part of all pagan worship. In very early times women became priestly singers of the gods in the temple.

"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (End of Quasten)

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

More from: The Evolution of the Pagan-Based, Catholic-Invented Trinity

September 3 2017, 8:16 PM 


The Origin of the Trinity: From Paganism to Constantine [Part 5]

The evolution of the Trinity can be well seen in the words of the Apostles’ Creed, Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed.2 As each of the creeds became more wordy and convoluted, the simple, pure faith of the Apostolic church became lost in a haze. Even more interesting is the fact that as the creeds became more specific (and less scriptural) the adherence to them became stricter, and the penalty for disbelief harsher.

In summary, the common culture of the day was one filled with triune gods. From ancient Sumeria’s Anu, Enlil, and Enki and Egypt’s dual trinities of Amun-Re-Ptah and Isis, Osiris, and Horus to Rome’s Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva the whole concept of paganism revolved around the magic number of three. In Greek philosophy, also, we have seen how the number three was used as an unspecified trinity of intelligence, mind, and reason.

In stark contrast, is the simple oneness of the Hebrew God. Jesus was a Jew from the tribe of Judah. He claimed to be sent to the ‘lost sheep of the house of Israel’.{# Mt 15:24} His apostles were all Jews. His god was the Jewish God. He called himself the Son of God and acknowledged his role as the Christ, {#Mt 16:15-17} and the Messiah. {#Joh 4:25-26} His message was one of love, righteousness, and salvation, and he despised the religious dogma of tradition. What a contrast from the proceedings of the Council of Nicea and the murders that followed! He gave the good news of his coming kingdom to the poor and meek: the lowly of this world. He did not require dogmatic creeds that had to be believed to the word, but rather said, ‘Follow me’.{# Mt 9:9}

There can be no doubt: Jesus was a stranger to all sides of the political proceedings in Nicea. He never claimed to be God, but was content to be God’s son. His creed was not of words that must be followed to the letter, but rather of spirit: ‘Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God’.{# Mt 4:8} He did not require wealthy and learned bishops to mingle philosophy and pagan polytheism with his simple truth, but blessed the ‘poor’ and the ‘meek’.{# Mt 4:1-12} No, it was not from Jesus that the dogma of the Trinity came.

Is this positive proof that the Trinity owes it origins to paganism and philosophy? The evidences of history leave little doubt. The concept of the Trinity finds its roots in Pagan theology and Greek philosophy: it is a stranger to the Jewish Jesus and the Hebrew people from which he sprang.
[emphases mine, d.c.]

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

The God of Jesus Christ: Jesus Has a God

September 4 2017, 9:53 PM 

The passages from the Scripture are "specially" for Dave and other serious and mature Bible students (i.e., let's hear from Dave first, please):

  • And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matt. 27:46, KJV)

  • And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Mark 15:34, KJV)

  • These words spake Jesus..., Father, the hour is come, ... And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent (John 17:1-3, KJV).

  • Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17, KJV)

  • That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Rom. 15:6, KJV)

  • But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (I Cor. 8:6, KJV)

  • Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; (II Cor. 1:3, KJV)

  • The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. (II Cor. 11:31, KJV)

  • Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph. 1:3, KJV)

  • That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: (Eph. 1:17, KJV)

  • One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph. 4:6, KJV)

  • Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (I Pet. 1:3, KJV)

  • And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (Rev. 1:5,6, KJV)

  • Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (Rev. 3:12, KJV)

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The God of Jesus Christ: Jesus Has a God

September 14 2017, 6:33 PM 

It can't be any clearer than that: The God of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is not himself.

Rather, his own Father is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. The dozen or so passages that reveal to us the God and Father of Jesus Christ are irrefutable, indeed. (Hopefully, Dave understands those passages and can admit that no one can argue that truth. He is so quiet! happy.gif )

Jesus Christ is the Son of God! Period!!! (Supporting passages are overwhelming.)
Jesus Christ is the image of God (II Cor. 4:4).
Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God (Col. 1:15).



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The God of Jesus Christ: Jesus Has a God

September 14 2017, 11:26 PM 

We have discussed before that MOST dogmas are built out of STRAW and they will be burned up. A topic such as music or trinity is a PIE CHART with 100% proof that:

There is ONE GOD THE FATHER
And One Mediator between man and God, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS.
It would be utterly impossible to then try to wedge in some theology without, in the words of Paul, LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE

My thesis with lots of Scripture is that:
The WORLD is the kingdom of the Devil and the population are DUST or Aborigines.
Jesus was NOT of THIS WORLD and those He sent us to spread the news of rescue will NOT BE OF THIS WORLD.
Jesus said that He did not pray for the WORLD but those the Father had given him.
Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise or Sophists: speakers, singers, instrument players

Jesus said I AM FROM ABOVE and YOU ARE FROM BENIETH or Tartarus.
While Jesus DID NOT PRAY FOR THE WORLD although He died for the entire HAUL containing good and bad fish. The tares are seed PLANTED BY THE DEVIL.

I don't know how else to explain that the MASSES are polytheistic including most apostate churches of Christ other than because they are congenitally hostile to the GOOD SEED.

John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John:
.....for the works which the Father hath given me to finish,
.....the same works that I do, bear witness of me,
.....that the Father hath sent me.
John 5:37 And the Father himself,
.....which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
.....Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you:
.....for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
.....and they are they which testify of me.
John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 5:41 I receive not honour from men.
John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name,
.....and ye receive me not:
if another shall come in his own name,
.....him ye will receive.
John 5:44 How can ye believe,
.....which receive honour one of another,
.....and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
.....there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses,
.....ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


The NARROW, EXCLUSIVE ROAD, WAY OR PATTERN seems to EXCLUDE anyone who SELLS the Free Water of the Word Jesus died to give us free of charge. I believe that God is still in charge and DOES NOT PERMIT them to let HIS WORDS pass through their lips. Being strongly deluded they make a major industry out of holding meetings where only the apostate are ALLOWED TO BY AND SELL. At LU and most once-Christian universities promoting MUSIC is the mark: that is good because the BEAST or Theiron is A new style of music or Satyric (Panic, Capallic) drams.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Quiet Enough?

September 15 2017, 7:50 PM 

Well, like you said Donnie "It's only a few verses" that state that Jesus is God.
Well, Donnie, just continue to ignore/push them aside since you don't like those verses. See where that'll get you.

Is that quiet enough for you?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The Truth in 135 Verses Against an Interpretation of 1 Verse

September 15 2017, 11:49 PM 

Dave,

There is not a single verse in the entire Bible that proclaims that Jesus is God.

There are 47 verses that refer to Jesus as "the Son of God" and 88 verses that refer to Jesus as "the Son of man," and

If there may be one verse that you interpret that Jesus is God

... that really should be a clear indication that the serious Bible student should thoroughly investigate:


-- the text from the original manuscript
-- the transcription process as scribes made copies of the manuscript
-- the time span between manuscripts and first translations
-- the biases and doctrinal influences on the part of translators
-- proper grammatical rules between languages (NT Greek vs. modern English)
-- etc.

Remember we all know and believe that there is no contradiction in God's truth.

That Jesus is the Son of God and that Jesus is God -- that equation does not compute.

Please don't give me the third-grader reasoning "that with God all things are possible."

Furthermore, it was never God's intention to confuse mankind about His nature and the identity of Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son.



 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

No Problem

September 15 2017, 8:00 PM 

Colossians 1
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Just a couple of verses.....don't worry about them.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Passage Taken Out of Context Is a Problem

September 16 2017, 4:38 AM 

Dave,

It doesn't do you any good to take a portion of the chapter out of context.

Whether or not you intended to not include the preceding verse (v. 15), your argument is weak. The passage states: "[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

The entire chapter 1 of Colossians deals with two characters:

(1) The Father -- the God of Jesus Christ; and
(2) Jesus Christ himself.

(1) One is the invisible God (the Father);
(2) The other is the IMAGE of the invisible God.

(1) The original and
(2) The image are not the same thing.

(1) [Note: that Caesar was the person, but...]
(2) [Note: that the image of Caesar on a coin was not Caesar himself.]

(1) God is not a man;
(2) Man created in the image of God is not God.

(1) One is the Creator;
(2) The other: the firstborn of every creature.

(1) One (God) created;
(2) The other: through [by] him all things were created by God.


The passage you quoted reveals the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 fulfilled -- another favorite verse mistranslated and misused by Trinitarians. Christ had to be before all things in reference to himself preceding the eternal kingdom (the church) he established. Your passage quoted speaks of the church over which he is the head. No, he is not "the Everlasting Father" (which is reserved only to the one true and living God); rather, Christ is "the father" ("originator") of his everlasting kingdom.

Nowhere in the passage you quoted is the claim "that Jesus is God" to be found. Instead, the Father is the God of Jesus Christ. Read Colossians 1:3 -- again one of the preceding verses you did not quote.

 
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Dave
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66.112.162.15

No Worries

September 15 2017, 8:05 PM 

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

Don't worry about those either

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Beginning and Ending of WHAT?

September 15 2017, 11:29 PM 

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

WHO IS? Amen. Rev. 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Alpha is the first of anything such as CHARACTER
principium et finis,

Rev. 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus was not GOD the ALPHA but the BEGINNING or something else because:

Rom. 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Jesus was the FIRST CITIZEN of His Kingdom and He will be the LAST when He gives up his crown to the father.

Rev. 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the FIRST BEGOTTEN of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Trinitarians say that Jesus was the first born son from eternity past: God says that He was be beginning and ending of HIS "world" or family and He was THE FIRST BEGOTTEN FROM THE DEAD

Jesus was BEFORE the Kingdom but IN THE FLESH after he was BORN.

Col. 1:18 And he is the HEAD of the BODY, the CHURCH: who is the BEGINNING, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

JESUS WAS THE

Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the AUTHOR and FINISHER [arkhēgon kai teleiōtēn] OF OUR FAITH; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Beginning and Ending of WHAT?

September 16 2017, 10:46 AM 

God has no BEGINNING nor ending.
God is not the SUPERIOR and the INFERIOR
God is not the TOP nor the BOTTOM.

The WORLD does not include the ice flows on Pluto.

g2889. kosmos, kos´-mos; probably from the base of 2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)): — adorning, world.

g2865. komizo, kom-id´-zo; from a primary kome÷w komeo (to tend, i.e. take care of); properly, to provide for, i.e. (by implication) to carry off (as if from harm; genitive case obtain): — bring, receive.

The WORLD of A Christian World View abrogating anything Jesus taught and selling their own "ecumenical" views even though they slander all historic Churches of Christ is the KOSMOS, the Ecumenical or the KINGDOM of the Devil.

You will notice that the First Jubilee following the Pope intended to unite all groups under the MOTHER church.

The NACC or Christian Church Denomination has bonded with once-church of Christ universities to hold

COSMIC WORSHIP.

http://www.piney.com/Christian.Worship.Depicted.In.Revelation.html

NACC SAYS: Also on Wednesday morning, Randy Harris of Abilene Christian Universit will usher us into heaven’s throne room in Revelation 4-5. As we enter this cosmic corporate worship service, we will suck in our breath, shield our eyes and drop to our knees before a God so glorious we can only describe Him with thunder, lightning, rainbows and jewels. He is the reason we will be victorious.

http://www.piney.com/NACC.2013.Victorius.Review.html



 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Is That Better?

September 16 2017, 1:55 PM 

Colossians 1
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

All things were created by him, and for him.....
Like you said, Donnie, it is only a few verses.

It must be out of context, right?

You like questions, right Donnie? 2 Timothy 4, verse 1 says " I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"

Who will judge? God or Jesus, or God and Jesus? Confusing, isn't it? Not really.

John 4
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

You still need a passage telling you that Jesus is God?
happy.gif

You need something more than Jesus being called "the invisible image of God?"
happy.gif

Sometimes, even dummies get it right. Jesus takes away the ability to discern the Truth, when you aren't looking for it.
Right, Ken?


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is That Better?

September 16 2017, 3:13 PM 

It is better, Dave.

Colossians 1:15 -- "Who is THE IMAGE OF the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

Now it is time to really know the difference between:

(1) The invisible God
---------- and ------------
(2) The IMAGE OF the invisible God


Then, you can review my recent post above.

God gave ALL power or authority to Jesus Christ -- but God did NOT make Jesus His Son as co-God.

When Jesus exercises the power and authority given to him by his God, that still does not make Jesus the co-God of the Father.

II Timothy 4:1 (I'm glad you quoted this one) clearly uses the conjunction "AND" indicating two (2) beings. [Dave, what did you learn about the conjunction "and" in school?] God and Jesus are not conjoined twins. One is the Father; the other is the Son.

Just remember and always remember that:

(1) The Father is God, the Almighty God, and He is Jehovah
------------------ and -------------------
(2) The Son of God, the Messiah sent to earth, is Jesus Christ.


Simple!!! The simple truth that others have made COMPLEX unnecessarily.

That passage agrees with many other passages regarding the relationship and even communication (read the book of John) between the Father and the Son. They never argue with each other. Jesus obeyed God (Heb. 5:8,9). When God judges, His Son obliges and follows -- after all, God gave him ALL power and authority. STILL, there is no migration from being the Son of God to being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

I'm glad you also quoted John 4:9 for it relates to everything else in the Scripture. It all goes back to Jesus being THE IMAGE of the invisible God. Since God is a spirit and invisible, when we see Jesus (who is God's IMAGE), we also "see" God the Father. (I'd like to know how else you can see God without seeing Jesus His image!!!)


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Sep 16, 2017 3:15 PM


 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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