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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Man's Word CAN NEVER Displace the Word of God

July 31 2017, 3:27 PM 

YOU told me, or us. That is the problem Ken. You cannot be trusted to be a valid source of truth. You prefer YOUR opinion over what God says in His Word, and the Word says in John 1 that the Word which became Jesus in the flesh is God. I will take the Word of God over any claim that man has. I do not believe that Jesus, as Donnie and you claim, was a god; inferior to His Father.
Ken, I understand where you have been trying to lead the readers here all along. You believe that Jesus was just a man, but how is that possible if He is the Very Son of God? It isn't possible. All Scriptures speak of his lineage from man because Jesus took on a fleshly form. I bet you don't remember the part about Jesus being conceived of the Holy Spirit?

Matthew 1
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

He was born of a man (woman), but conceived from the Holy Ghost

Why are you and Donnie even into this, this being what you consider the work of God Since you are so negative, you can't actually like the work. Being a disciple is a joy, not what you make it to be, which is drudgery. Yes, there is pointing out sin, but you DO NOT talk about what a joy it is to be a follower of Christ. The only time you speak of the joy of Christ is when someone calls you down on being so negative.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Say What You Mean

July 31 2017, 3:34 PM 

So what is Jesus, Ken? A lower god than God? You say that there is One God, and Jesus then is just an inferior god???

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Say What You Mean

July 31 2017, 4:46 PM 

I told you that this is above your pay grade.

Mark 13:34 For the Son of man is AS A MAN taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Matt. 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Ken Vs the Word of God

July 31 2017, 5:07 PM 

So Ken, you claim that Jesus Christ was just a man.

Scriptures claim different
In John 10:28, Jesus said, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." If Jesus Christ isn't eternal, then how does He have the power to give "eternal life"?

Jesus says in John 14:9, "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" Is the Father someone other than Jesus Christ? No, not according to Jesus Christ.

I'm not calling you false. The Word of God is doing it.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Ken Vs the Word of God

July 31 2017, 8:04 PM 

2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God, should shine unto them.
Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

2Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1Pet. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten US again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Rev. 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Is Jesus a (g)od?

July 31 2017, 12:31 PM 

To believe that John 1:1 means the Word was "a god" is to imply there was another "inferior" (g)od with God in the beginning. Of course, that conflicts with the Biblical truth that there is only ONE God; there can be no other. Therefore, the KJV is correct when it states that the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. The clear implication is that God and the Word were one and the same Entity. And since the Word became flesh (Jesus), it follows that the Word and Jesus were the same Being -- the Word the spiritual form and Jesus the physical form of the SAME Entity. Now since God and the Word were the same Entity, and since the Word and Jesus were the same Entity, it further follows that God and Jesus are identical, just different manifestation of the same One Supreme Being. Therefore, Jesus IS God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is Jesus a (g)od?

July 31 2017, 12:42 PM 

Define WORD:

noun
1.
a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning. Words are composed of one or more morphemes and are either the smallest units susceptible of independent use or consist of two or three such units combined under certain linking conditions, as with the loss of primary accent that distinguishes black·bird· from black· bird·. Words are usually separated by spaces in writing, and are distinguished phonologically, as by accent, in many languages.

words.

speech or talk: to express one's emotion in words;
Words mean little when action is called for.
the text or lyrics of a song as distinguished from the music.
contentious or angry speech; a quarrel:
We had words and she walked out on me.

5. statement, declaration. 6. pledge. 7. message, report, account. 8. catchword, shibboleth.

Logos, Greek spelling

Logos (UK: /ˈloʊɡɒs, ˈlɒɡɒs/, US: /ˈloʊɡoʊs/; Ancient Greek: λόγος, from λέγω lego "I say") is a term in western philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion derived from a Greek word meaning "ground", "plea", "opinion", "expectation", "word", "speech", "account", "reason", "proportion", "discourse",[1][2] but it became a technical term in philosophy beginning with Heraclitus (c. 535–475 BCE), who used the term for a principle of order and knowledge.[3] Logos is the logic behind an argument.[4] Logos tries to persuade an audience using logical arguments and supportive evidence. Logos is a persuasive technique often used in writing and rhetoric.

Never name your child LOGOS. It is true that Blacks use great names and RHEMA is a good one. Rhema is the Logos when SPOKEN. Jesus said my WORDS are Spirit and Life.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jul 31, 2017 2:58 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Jesus is the REAL DEAL, THE WORD

July 31 2017, 3:31 PM 

There's your problem. There are the Words (Scripture) of God and THE WORD (Jesus). God had quite a few Words recorded in the Old and New Testament but only ONE LIVING WORD, that being JESUS.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Questions Abound

July 31 2017, 7:52 PM 

So Donnie, Ken's claim is that Jesus was just a man. You agree?
To Ken, for your claim that Jesus was a man, check this out.

Romans 3
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ken, who is ALL there? All men? That seems to put a hole in your theory that Jesus was just a man.

ALL MEN have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Did Jesus, just a man as you say, sin? No!

Am I living up to my pay grade now?

So now, if Jesus isn't just a man, then what is He? Can Jesus be half God, and half man? Remember, there is only One God. That would equal to one and a half God. Taint possible.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Questions Abound

July 31 2017, 7:58 PM 

You hallucinated JUST!

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and one mediator BETWEEN God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

Try as you wish, you will never comprehend that.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Hallucinations of Pure Love from my God

July 31 2017, 8:11 PM 

So then, Ken, if Jesus isn't JUST a man, what is He? Half man, and half God? God is ONE, remember? What is He? The Scripture there says He is Mediator, which means ??? Man, god, God, both, what???

I know it is beyond my pay grade as you say, but being the teacher that you are, bring it down to human level.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Reality: 'the man Christ Jesus'; Hallucination: 'the God Christ Jesus'

August 1 2017, 12:46 AM 

Dave,

OK, so you are now going to stop manufacturing the word "JUST" in your expression "JUST a man"? The passage says:

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (I Timothy 2:5, KJV).

Here's a very careful analysis that you can participate in:

----- one God (you choose only one: the Father or the Son)
----- one mediator (you choose only one: God the Father or the Son of God)
----- between: separates God from men
----- God and men: does not say "co-God"; conjunction "and"; "men" is plural
----- the man: "the" is a definite article; yes, "man" and NOT "God"
----- Christ Jesus: God's Son's name; it does not say "Jehovah"


-- That passage eliminates Jesus as a co-God in "ONE GOD."
-- That passage eliminates the Trinity's concept of "the Holy Spirit" as a co-God.
-- "One God" is always in reference to "the Father."
-- "One God" is never in reference to Jesus Christ, the Son OF God.
-- "One God" is never in reference to "the holy Spirit OF God" (Eph. 4:30).
-- Never expect the "one God" to mediate between Himself and "men" [plural].
-- There is no obfuscation in the expression: "THE MAN Christ Jesus."
-- There are those who wish the passage stated: "THE GOD Christ Jesus."
-- The name of the mediator is not "Jehovah."


Your "half-and-half" forumula just does not work. (It's not like half-cream and half-milk.) Your "(1 God) + (1 God) + (1 God) = (1 God)" or "3-Gods-in-one" or "1-God-in-3" does not work, either.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Questions Abound

August 1 2017, 1:05 AM 

Dave,

Jesus Christ is referred to as "the Son of God" 47 times in the New Testament. There's not a single reference to Christ as "the Son of God in the Old Testament. That makes sense in that the Messiah was prophesied in the O.T., and he was born only two millennia ago.

Jesus Christ is referred to as "the Son of man" 89 times in the New Testament.

Yes, Dave, I agree with Ken and the Scripture when it says: THE MAN Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men (I Timothy 2:5)

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

What is Jesus???

August 1 2017, 7:18 AM 

Take the JUST out Donnie, whatever floats your boat. So still you are saying that Jesus is/was a man? Being the Son of God, as you say and I agree, Jesus is/was a man? A mortal man? That is all that a man can be, right?

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Questions Abound

August 1 2017, 9:23 AM 

Let's review:

"Faith" verses outnumber "baptism" verses in the NT, but the latter minority teach that baptism is essential for salvation.

"Jesus the Son of God" verses outnumber "I and my Father are one/He who has seen Me has seen the Father" verses in the NT, yet the latter minority teach that Jesus is God.

Let's not fall prey to the erroneous notion that "more verses" cancel "fewer verses," for biblical Truth has equal weight, whether it's in a million verses or in just one. Therefore, just as salvation requires faith AND baptism, so Jesus is the Son of God AND Jesus is God at the same time.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Who is Jesus?

August 1 2017, 4:44 PM 

John 1 14 states that Jesus (the Word) became flesh some 2000 years ago. Is Jesus flesh today? The Word became Jesus, the Son of God in the flesh. If He was God in the beginning (John 1 verse 1) and then became flesh, was resurrected, and is now with God, what is Jesus now? A spiritual being? Another lower god? Still a man? You say He is not God, then who is Jesus right now?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Who is Jesus?

August 2 2017, 3:37 AM 

(1) It was the Word [not yet Jesus at the time] that was in the beginning with God.

(2) The Word of God (God's utterance or saying) did not become Jesus (or flesh) until two millennia ago.

(3) Today Jesus is still not God but is still a man: "... the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7:56).

(4) Today Jesus is still not God, but he is "the image of God" (II Cor. 4:4).

(5) Today Jesus is still not God, but he is the image of the invisible God (Col. 1:15).

(6) Jesus is still referred to as "this man" in Hebrews 10:12 -- "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God."

(7) The MAN Christ Jesus our mediator (I Timothy 2:5) is still our intercessor -- "It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us (Romans 8:34, KJV).

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Questions Abound

August 2 2017, 3:45 AM 

Those "few" verses do not validate the man-made creed; therefore, there's no such thing as "outnumbering." (Trinity-influenced translations are unfortunate.)

 
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Donnie
(no login)
66.112.162.15

YOUR claim VS the Word of God

August 2 2017, 11:52 AM 

Wow, how about that now Donnie. Jesus, the Savior of the world, the ONLY begotten Son of God, the King of Kings, is a man. A man, who now sits at the right hand of God who rules over His Kingdom. If he isn't "JUST" a man, Donnie, that what is He just else?

So, those "few" verses, as you call them, should be thrown out? If it is ONE verse, it should be enough for YOU or ANYONE else to believe that Jesus is Divine and more than a man. You can claim that it is Trinity-influenced, man-infuenced, whatever you desire to tag it with, until our Lord comes again; call it whatever you want, but I call it the Truth.

Philippians 2
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Donnie, you will call attention ONLY to verse 11 where every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD, to WHOM??? To the glory of God the Father.

Your narrow-minded conclusion can't fathom that Jesus, who gives all glory to our (His) Father, can be ONE with God. Jesus came from God in the beginning, and will be FOREVER. All Scriptures attest to this. EVEN, yes EVEN if it is one verse, that is plenty enough for ANYONE to believe the Truth.


Donnie, is Jesus, now at the right hand of God, a man still???

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Questions Abound

August 2 2017, 12:56 PM 

Those "few" verses convey just as much important information as the "many" verses do. The "many" verses teach that Jesus is the Son of God. The "few" verses also teach that God and Jesus are one and the same. If you accept the "many" verses but discount the "few" verses, because the latter conflict with your personal beliefs, then you are most definitely playing the "numbers game."

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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