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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Truth Rejected: Jesus Has a God

August 3 2017, 11:20 PM 

Bill, those verses say nothing about Jesus being God. You don't realize how brainwashed and deceived you are with man-made, papal doctrine. Those verses are not in conflict with the rest of the Scripture. There is no contradiction in God's truth.

It's very simple, Bill. When the truth says that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and

(1) that he has a God (II Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3; I Peter 1:3);
(2) that he has a Father (numerous passages); and
(3) that he has a head (I Corinthians 11:3)...

... you must accept that truth.

Truth and man-made creeds and perceptions don't mix.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Out of the Mouth of.......???

August 3 2017, 11:53 PM 

David's Post (Aug 3, 2017 9:58 PM):
Donnie said "Dave, When the man Christ Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, was God on earth then?"

That borders on lunacy. It is someone who is grasping for anything, even if anything sounds illogical and stupid.

==========================
Dave, relax.

Why did I ask you that question? Here's why: I was responding to your claim:
David's claim: "Both verses that you quoted are speaking of Jesus while he was on earth, in fleshly form, NOT after He ascended and assumed His position in Heaven."

Do you get it now?

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Relax??? At Concernedmembers? You Jest???

August 3 2017, 11:57 PM 

Do I get it, Donnie?

I always have. What's your excuse?

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.92.115.207

ONE + ONE = ONE....The Math of God, NOT MAN

August 5 2017, 2:47 PM 

Donnie, when you see that verse which says...
Matthew 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


...what does that mean to you?

Who has power?
What reach is that power?

God gave Jesus that power, you would say?
So would I.

No Donnie, God did not give God that power. He gave Jesus that power. THAT POWER...MEANING ALL POWER...EVERYWHERE...over EVERTHING.

There isn't a different kingdom nor different authority....one for Jesus and a different one for God. THEY ARE ONE!!!

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: ONE + ONE = ONE....The Math of God, NOT MAN

August 5 2017, 3:30 PM 

Dave,

You completely forgot the third (3rd) "+ ONE" more. What happened to "1+1+1 = 1"?

I strongly believe that ALL power was given by God to Jesus.

You're the one who is very confused. You are apparently confusing the Giver of ALL power and authority with the recipient.

One who gives is not the receiver. Just as God that sent the Messiah was not the Messiah.

Your concept is definitely an obfuscation.

When you say that God gave Jesus ALL power [which is correct] and say that Jesus is God [which is incorrect], then to you God gave God ALL power [which conclusion is false and incorrect].

Analyze your faulty logic and erroneous conclusion.

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.92.115.207

TRUTH

August 5 2017, 5:32 PM 

God gave all power to Jesus, and God still is in charge. THAT MEANS....read slowly...JESUS and GOD has the POWER. WHY???

JESUS=GOD

Revelations 22
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelations 1
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

JESUS

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?

August 2 2017, 1:23 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Silence is Golden

August 3 2017, 9:12 AM 

Donnie,
You just don't care to know the truth when you ask questions like whether God is sitting on the right hand side of God.

Similar to asking if God can be the Son.

That's your defense???

We come to the only conclusion that Jesus CAN ONLY BE GOD, and you come up with that???



 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Silence is Golden

August 3 2017, 10:31 AM 

Dave,

I have quoted hundreds of passages that debunk man-made creeds and misconceptions. Unfortunately, there are those who simply ignore them or just speed-read them with little or no attempt to validate their long-held beliefs vs. the scriptures.

The Scripture is my defense!!! Not the popes (and the papal succession) and the RCC tradition. Not Rick Warren. Not Max Lucado. Not denominational manuals.

I have quoted you passages indicating "this man" (Christ Jesus) "sitting on the right hand of God." But you want to change that to "God" ... "sitting on the right hand of God."

The countless references to Jesus Christ being "the Son of God" or "the Son of man" as truth simply cannot be changed otherwise.

Equating "the Son of God" with "God the Son" DOES NOT COMPUTE mathematically, logically and scripturally.

Your conclusion "that Jesus CAN ONLY BE GOD" is contrary to the truth that Jesus is THE IMAGE of God (II Corinthians 4:4), THE IMAGE of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15).

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Let the Word Sort Out the Truth

August 3 2017, 9:52 PM 

Both passages in Acts 7 and Hebrews 10 only strengthens the Truth that the position of Jesus in heaven is not that of a man. Those passages state that his earthly form was that of a human, and had nothing to do with His present Spiritual Hierarchy. Jesus has no beginning as He was the Word in the beginning with God, making Jesus creator with God (Colossians 1: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:). I have already proven that the original text, Ev means BY and IN, so you deliberately made a false statement about the original text. He was born conceived of the Holy Ghost, and now he is with God, and therefore God. He was resurrected because He is sinless, the Savior (no man can claim this). Earthly form does not make Jesus a man

Revelation 22
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


Jesus makes the claim that He will come again. He also makes the claim that only He and God can do. Jesus is the beginning and the end, and so is God. How can that be?

happy.gif Jesus is God!

Donnie, you have made so many deliberate false statements, but the biggest one is that Jesus never claimed that He was God. READ CAREFULLY AGAIN Revelation 22 12-13

happy.gif

Donnie, you can't change the Truth. EVER!!! AMEN AND HALLELUJAH!!!

Jesus, sitting at the right hand of God RIGHT NOW is a man???
YOU, Donnie are a hoot. I wish I could say that you were funny.




 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Let the Word Sort Out the Truth

August 4 2017, 12:46 AM 

When the man Christ Jesus ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God, he did not sit on his own right hand. Ken Sublett illustrates it best: "When I sit down on my right hand it isn't pretty!"

When the man Christ Jesus ascended to heaven, his gender did not change -- still a man, not a woman, even if incorruptible and not of human flesh. His position has not changed -- still the Son of God.

The Word was in the beginning with God. True, indeed. But that doesn't mean that God was with God in the beginning. Remember the several times that "GOD SAID:" in the first chapters of Genesis? God SPOKE. Yes, the Word of God (the LOGOS OF GOD) that was in the beginning with God (Genesis 1; John 1) became flesh (John 1:14).

You sound out-of-sync when you keep saying "that only He and God can do." Without the recognition that the conjunction "and" is significant. God and co-God?

The passages in Revelation have references to both God and Christ -- but both are not God and co-God.

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.92.115.207

All I Need is One Verse

August 5 2017, 2:39 PM 

Donnie said "When the man Christ Jesus ascended to heaven, his gender did not change -- still a man, not a woman, even if incorruptible and not of human flesh. His position has not changed -- still the Son of God."

Immaturity is rampant....evidenced here....again.

NEVER was the gender of Christ questioned. That is Donnie, trying to steer the attention away from his earlier absurd statements. Never was it questioned that of gender (God and Jesus are HE). Donnie has said that Jesus is a man in heaven now. Man, being that He isn't of divinity, of God. Donnie believes that Jesus is the Son of God, and therefore being as such, Jesus can ONLY BE GOD. So, the interchangeable (God sitting on the right hand side of God) immature thoughts that Donnie has is just the way Donnie goes when He is beyond the arm of facts.

More of Donnie's absurd irrational? He says that God was not with God in the beginning. Tf you believe what God says in John 1, which is that The Word was in the beginning, and then the Word became Jesus in John 1 verse 14. It also states in John 1 and Colossians that everything was made by and through Jesus, thus making him Creator, thus making Jesus God.....NOT A CO-GOD.

The passages in Revelation STATE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that JESUS is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. Only One other can make that declaration....GOD.
THUS...JESUS is GOD. There is no two Gods and no co-Gods.

Beyond proof that Donnie is floundering and grasping at straws??? When anyone trying to defend the Word state that there are only a "few verses' which support your statement, you know they have run the course with their discourse. Donnie, it only takes one verse, and no it will never be out of context.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: All I Need is One Verse

August 5 2017, 3:52 PM 

Dave,

But that one verse must agree with all the other passages!!!. You know very well as I do that there is no contradiction in the Scripture. When that one verse "seems to disagree" with the others, then one should seek an explanation as to why it seems that way. In the end, that one verse does not contradict; it's man's interpretation that contradicts.

You are associating the idea of being a man as someone with flesh even after death and resurrection as in the case of Christ. When the scriptures say that the MAN Christ Jesus is sitting on the right hand of God, leave it at that. It is still truth.

The MAN Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men. As long as he mediates and intercedes for us, he is still "the Son of God" and "the Son of man." His position does not change!!!

Acts 7:56 -- "the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

Romans 8:34 -- "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."

The Scripture is speaking to you, Dave.

 
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Dave
(no login)
173.92.115.207

Nice Try

August 5 2017, 5:12 PM 

The Scripture has ALWAYS spoke to me, and that is why I continue to post at this ill-fated website. You pose your opinion as the Truth, and it doesn't line up as such. The Scriptures do not contradict Itself. Now, stick to what I mentioned in my post. Go from there. Reply to those facts and Truth, instead of this emotional tirade of yours.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Silence is Golden

August 5 2017, 4:47 PM 

Jesus was the image of God on earth, because God, being Eternal Spirit, could not reveal His true appearance to man lest man die. Physical man could not stand in the actual presence of God. Therefore, God/the Word took upon Himself the form of the physical man Jesus (the Word became flesh). The verses we've mentioned before attest to that: mighty God/everlasting Father/Prince of Peace, God with us, Jesus and the Father are One, he who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, etc.

To the limited, physical mind, Jesus as God does not compute mathematically or logically. Likewise, human genetics says that the Father cannot be the Son and vice versa. But the limited, human mind fails to comprehend the fact that the spiritual realm of the Eternal transcends all the physical laws of mathematics, human logic, and human genetics; none of those physical laws apply in the spiritual realm, because with God, all things are possible. Therefore, it is useless to argue that Jesus is not God based on human mathematics, human logic, and human genetics. Believe what the Scriptures teach, that Jesus is not only the Son of God, but that Jesus also IS God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is Jesus Just ANOTHER god?

August 3 2017, 10:44 AM 

Messiah would be the ROCK, God's Right Hand, God's shoulder. Jesus said that truth is hidden from the clergy OF the World because the do not have the right to know. Matthew 11. Those lost spirits Jesus was sent to seek and saves will be SEALED.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

They are added to CHRIST'S Church because HE has the only authority to accept DISCIPLE. Disciples are further marked by not attending the mass, milling multitudes to WORSHIP THEMSELVES.

[linked image]

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Scripture Against Scripture? NOT

August 5 2017, 3:59 PM 

Bill said:
Those "few" verses convey just as much important information as the "many" verses do. The "many" verses teach that Jesus is the Son of God. The "few" verses also teach that God and Jesus are one and the same. If you accept the "many" verses but discount the "few" verses, because the latter conflict with your personal beliefs, then you are most definitely playing the "numbers game."

RESPONSE: Ken Sublett (besides being very knowledgeable of the Scripture) can be funny. There are several passages that make reference to the MAN Christ Jesus "sitting on the right hand of God." But there are those who deny that truth and instead claim that Jesus Christ is "God" who is "sitting on the right hand of God." So, is it God sitting on the right hand of God???? Ken illustrates it best: "When I sit down on my right hand it isn't pretty!"

In response to anyone who pits the "few" verses against the "many" verses, that should not happen because the Scripture does not contradict itself. The Scripture itself teaches the Christian to "study" and be "a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15).

Ken has something to say about those who have this attitude: "That explains why family and friends or preachers and elders go glassy eyed when you quote too much Scripture to them." [Taken from another thread, "God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son" by Dianna Howell (sub-topic: "Image of God" also by Dianna)]

For example:

(1) Scripture (even common logic) says: "God" is not the same as "the Son of God."
(2) Scripture (even common logic) says: "God" is not the same as "the image of God."
(3) Scripture says: "God the Son" ... NOT!!! The Pope declared that!
(4) Scripture says: that Jesus has a God.
(5) Scripture says: that Jesus has a head.
(6) Scripture says: that Jesus has a Father.
(7) Scripture says: that the God of Jesus is also the God of the believers.

(8) ... OK, just a few of numerous scriptural teachings.

There are some 50 references to Jesus being "the Son of God."
There are some 90 references to Jesus being "the Son of man."

There are a "few" verses [Bill's idea] that some folks think teach "the Trinity" concept or creed while "many" verses do not. Without elaborating further, it's time to examine these few verses and consider the words from the original text, the not-errorless scribes or text transcribers, the prejudices and pre-conceived theories and notions of Trinity-influenced translators -- born centuries later than the original manuscripts -- who manipulated certain passages of the Scripture.

It is also time for these folks to do their own researches and seek any valid explanation as to why certain passages seemingly contradict other passages. The truth of the matter is that there is no contradiction in the passages of Scripture.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Scripture Against Scripture? NOT

August 5 2017, 4:59 PM 

You evidently can't stop playing the numbers game by listing X number of Son-of-God verses and Y number of Son-of-man verses. You're still discounting the "few" verses that teach that Jesus IS God. None of the verses that you've quoted and will endlessly continue to quote will ever nullify, void, or cover up those verses teaching that Jesus IS God.

Learn to accept the fact that Jesus is the Son of God; that Jesus is the Son of man; and that Jesus IS God.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Scripture Against Scripture? NOT

August 5 2017, 5:13 PM 

I will never discount any verse or verses that teach that Jesus is God. No, not one!!! I just haven't seen one yet. I would stick with Jesus being the Son of God for I know that being "God" (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) and being "the Son of God" are NOT the same. Jesus was not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Bill, your father is not you as his son. Simple enough that a third grader can understand it. Trinitarians complicate God's nature needlessly.

There is only one God -- the Father of Jesus Christ.

God has only one begotten Son -- his name is Jesus Christ, not Jehovah.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Scripture Against Scripture? NOT

August 5 2017, 7:20 PM 

I'm sorry to say that you are indeed discounting (or maybe you prefer "rejecting" or "ignoring") those verses that teach that Jesus IS God. Those verses are there, but you're just in denial. You need to get past that denial.

The Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of man. The Bible teaches that Jesus IS God. How can ALL this be possible? It's because the Bible also teaches that ALL things are possible with God.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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