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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Go to and fro in the earth

August 14 2017, 8:34 AM 

Great questions Donnie, as we have discussed this enough times that you already know the answers. You and Ken will not listen to sound doctrine. You have proved this over and over. You take what the Truth is and twist it, even to the point of attributing your faulty logic to others. You really don't need dialogue to do that. You can do that on your own. You have enough of my posts already that you can rip those over and over, again and again.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Great Questions--Not Answered

August 14 2017, 8:13 PM 

Dave,

I'm aware that they're great questions coming from me. I'm also aware that we have discussed in various times and forms topics and sub-topics about the "Jesus is God" doctrine. I do not recall, however, that I have posed these related questions together before.

Since you believe that Jesus is/has been God from the beginning of time and for the sake of those who have not heard from you, Dave, please provide YOUR answers to these questions:
  1. What was Jesus BEFORE God gave him ALL power? Was Jesus powerless? Was he powerful but not as powerful as God?
  2. What was Jesus AFTER God gave him ALL power? Did he then become equal with God in power and authority?
  3. What are the differences between: (a) the Giver of power [God] and (b) the Receiver of power [Jesus] in terms of their "being"? Are they really just one being?
  4. If Jesus was/is God from the beginning [which is your teaching], why would God still need to give God [Jesus] ALL power?

Dave, there is no reason why you shouldn't be prepared to answer these questions and defend the truth you claim to teach.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

???

August 14 2017, 8:36 PM 

It isn't that I haven't answered them before Donnie. How many times do you have to hear the Truth before you believe?
5?
20?
50?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: ???

August 14 2017, 9:06 PM 

Questions too difficult for you?

Don't emulate Bill. He is hardly prepared to answer difficult questions; instead he often rejects or ignores them.

Know that the narratives you've posted do not answer those questions. What would you do in a debate when you're asked questions?

I know the "Truth" when I see or read it -- easy to recognize quoted scriptures.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: ???

August 14 2017, 10:16 PM 

When you answer Donnie's "questions" with Scriptures, but Donnie keeps asking the same questions over and over (just worded differently) because he doesn't like the Scriptures you quote, nothing more can be accomplished. It's time for you to go your way and for Donnie to go his.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: ???

August 14 2017, 10:47 PM 

Oh, I now recall -- Bill does answer certain questions: a few with memorized Trinity answers.

The questions above are somewhat challenging, aren't they? You certainly can help Dave. Those questions are fair; they should be answered honestly. If no scriptures can be quoted, that's OK; at least respond.

 
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Bump
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: ???

August 18 2017, 3:41 AM 

Bumped

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Some People

August 13 2017, 10:12 PM 

Donnie,
Tell Ken, since he doesn't understand english, to NOT edit my posts. If he wishes to emphasize any Scripture with his big and red font, he can accomplish that under HIS OWN and SEPARATE post.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Some People

August 13 2017, 11:29 PM 

I am always there to help. We noted that the Word or Logos is God's governing or regulating PRINCIPLE. When God gives Jesus the WORD or Regulative Principle it is easy to Write it, teach it or preach it.

Then I was certain that you wanted people to know that the FLESH WORD was visible and audible through the SON of the FATHER. That is why historic trinitarians say that God's Word is His Son: that way the Word as Son can be eternally begotten but only in these last days through Jesus Christ who was FLESH and BONES in contrast to God who is SPIRIT without flesh and bones.

You just don't have gratitudes!

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Go forth to and fro on the earth

August 14 2017, 8:41 AM 

Mary was born of humans, God was never born, but your logic is that "It teaches that since Mary is the mother of Jesus and since Jesus is God, therefore, "the Virgin Mary" is "the Mother of God."

Jesus conceived by the Holy Spirit, only carried to birth by a human (Mary was just a vessel), and YOU come up with that lunacy??? From now on, this is yours.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Max Lucado, Rubel Shelly Gnostic Heresy

August 14 2017, 11:35 AM 

Like Max Lucado and the Gnostic who DENY that Jesus came IN THE FLESH but a veil of light just PAST THROUGH MARY so that she remained IMMACULATE

2John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a DECEIVER and an ANTICHRIST.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt CONCEIVE IN thy WOMB, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the SON of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Rom. 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom. 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the FLESH;
Rom. 1:4 And DECLARED to be the SON OF GOD with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Aug 14, 2017 12:01 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Ken, There is Hope for You

August 14 2017, 12:51 PM 

Ken, you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. Through Jesus, you have forgiveness of sins.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Go forth to and fro on the earth

August 14 2017, 8:52 PM 

Dave said: Mary was born of humans, God was never born, but your logic is that "It teaches that since Mary is the mother of Jesus and since Jesus is God, therefore, "the Virgin Mary" is "the Mother of God."

Dave, read a little more carefully next time. That is NOT my logic.

I was using that as an example of a fallacious Roman Catholic Church/Pope's logic based on an erroneous premise(s). Your logic regarding Jesus as God resembles that of the Pope's or initially of the bishops of Rome who decreed and made it an official doctrine in the 4th century for the imminent Roman Catholicism.

That's not my lunacy; it's the pope's lunacy that you have learned and acquired. Admit it: you support the pagan-based Trinity creed that the bishops of Rome approved in the Nicean Council. God's followers in the O.T. dispensation knew nothing about the Pope's trinity because they were taught:

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: (Numbers 23:19, KJV)

Neither did the 1st century Christians -- they simply believed that the Father is the only true and living God; that God sent His only begotten Son to earth -- and this occurred two millennia ago.

I've also shown you scriptures (cf. preceding page] proving to you that Christ was of "the seed of David."

 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

You Asked For This....You Got It

August 17 2017, 3:19 PM 

Donnie said "That's not my lunacy; it's the pope's lunacy that you have learned and acquired. Admit it: you support the pagan-based Trinity creed that the bishops of Rome approved in the Nicean Council."


You want me to answer answer your questions and you tell me that I should admit to me supporting the Catholilc Trinity.

This is not a debate Donnie. Never has been. YOu can't have a debate with you being an absolute idiot.

Donnie, I don't like using that term (idiot) for anyone, but when you make the above claim, you get what you deserve. AND another thing, if I used the same Scriptures that the Pope uses, rember this Einstein...THOSE SCRIPITURES ARE STILL INSPIRED!....and it still doesn't mean I support anything to do with Trinitarinism (which you seem to know more about than I do).

After your above tirade I am certain that I am sure that I am right about one thing. All along, I have been reluctant to call you a brother in Christ. I am glad that I held out.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: You Asked For This....You Got It

August 17 2017, 7:31 PM 

Rom. 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

No spirit people:

Rom. 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
.....which was made of the seed of David according to the FLESH;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
.....according to the spirit OF holiness, [not a people]
.....by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom. 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship,
..........for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom. 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

No spirit person

.........2John 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
................but that we receive a full reward.
.........2John 9 Whosoever transgresseth,
................and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
.........He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
.................he hath both the Father and the Son.

Lord and Christ are not GOD WORDS.

.....No spirit people

...........2John 7 For many DECEIVERS are entered into the world,
................who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the FLESH.
................This is a DECEIVER and an ANTICHRIST.

THEY HATE YOU IF YOU DON'T "FELLERSHIP" WITH THEM!

2John 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2John 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

That includes MOST Churches of Christ who took the MARK of Antichristism only recently.






    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Aug 17, 2017 8:20 PM


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: You Asked For This....You Got It

August 17 2017, 9:44 PM 

When any of the following occurs during a "religious discussion," the discussion is as good as dead and nothing more can be accomplished. The parties involved need to cease and go their separate ways:

1. A party believes that his view of Scripture is the only correct view; all other views are unacceptable, wrong, null, void, worthless.

2. A party states or implies that all who disagree with his views of Scripture are going to hell.

3. A party asks questions of the other party, then continues to ask those same questions over and over (but worded differently), when the other party's answers are not what the first party wants to hear.

4. A party resorts to sarcasm, snide remarks, and/or name-calling when the other party doesn't agree with him.

5. A party's only goal is to "win" arguments and thus feel religiously "superior."

6. One or both parties continue to recycle arguments over and over without covering any "new" ground.


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What Are You Discussing?

August 17 2017, 10:33 PM 

Just answer the questions. Get to the point. What a waste of a 161-word narrative you just posted!!!

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

!

August 17 2017, 11:18 PM 

Idiot

One word

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

!

August 17 2017, 11:19 PM 

Idiot

One word

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: !

August 17 2017, 11:33 PM 

Cool it, bro. Don't embarrass yourself too much ... as a "Christian."

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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