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Network54.com/Forum

October 1 2017 at 1:15 AM
ConcernedMembers  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 23.127.32.146

Network54.com/Forum is currently experiencing "technical difficulty." Sorry. sad.gif
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer (Romans 12:12, KJV)
ConcernedMembers

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Network54.com/Forum

October 1 2017, 11:16 PM 

Word from Network54 Support: "Your ticket has been escalated to the next level engineer. Will update you when we have more findings."

The technical issue is that while your posts can be read by moderators, there is an approving process malfunction. Hopefully, your posts will be published soon.

 
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Rancor
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Hot on it...

October 21 2017, 3:37 PM 

Rancor
(no login)
68.74.186.218

October 6 2017, 10:07 PM


I have been in the "back door" all day. The problem is related to cyber security issues, most likely from the Russians. More later!

 
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Rancor
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Time to Shut it Down!

October 21 2017, 3:39 PM 

Rancor
(no login)
68.74.186.218

October 10 2017, 10:56 AM


Ken is out of control. Do the right thing.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

ConcernedMembers is not the only one....

November 9 2017, 11:21 PM 

But you need to know. To my knowledge, whatever technical problem it might be: that it has not been resolved. I'm sharing some of the comments I've come across for your information:
the UPGRADE was announced 8/29 and its been downhill from there since..... October 19 2017 at 10:21 AM

Still not fixed (Response to Error message while approving comments and messages) October 20 2017 at 11:41 AM

No available options (Response to Error message while approving comments and messages) Not even by email will Network54 reply our concerns with all these problems. September 28 2017 at 6:13 PM

Search function has been out for days - Personal photos can not be uploaded - Can not edit posts - I know Network54 usually runs its automated life perfectly, but we need someone to CHECK IN now and again to see if things are running smoothly. They are not. I've posted on the Premiere FORUM, here, and your Support e-mail. PLEASE help fix these problems glitches! Thank you!! September 27 2017 at 11:44 AM

same problem here ... is there a solution? September 25 2017 at 7:04 PM

Sme Problem Plus SEARCH has been down all afternoon ... Yes, same problem, plus I've been trying to use SEARCH all afternoon and evening - and it keeps showing the message that it is down and "to come back later." September 23 2017 at 4:38 PM

Same problem. Help September 23 2017 at 10:55 AM


===========================

Trials and tribulations in life!!!

 
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Rancor
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Network54.com/Forum

November 18 2017, 2:57 PM 

Re: ConcernedMembers is not the only one....
November 18 2017, 2:35 PM

Question: "Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"

Answer: As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches through careful consideration of the language and context of the verse. We also filter it through what we know the Bible teaches elsewhere on the subject. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Regarding Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual problems with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20. There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark or whether they were added later by a scribe. As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake handling, unless it is also supported by other passages of Scripture.

Assuming that verse 16 is original to Mark, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The short answer is, no, it does not. In order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with the countless verses where only belief is mentioned (e.g., John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.

While this verse tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, viz., “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

Those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious mistake that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy. This is the rule to follow: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations (or opposites) of that statement are also true." For example, the statement “a dog with brown spots is an animal” is true; however, the negative, “if a dog does not have brown spots, it is not an animal” is false. In the same way, “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” is true; however, the statement “he who believes but is not baptized will not be saved” is an unwarranted assumption. Yet this is exactly the assumption made by those who support baptismal regeneration.

Consider this example: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, but those that do not believe are condemned." This statement is strictly true; Kansans who believe in Jesus will be saved. However, to say that only those believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. The statement does not say a believer must live in Kansas in order to go to heaven. Similarly, Mark 16:16 does not say a believer must be baptized. The verse states a fact about baptized believers (they will be saved), but it says exactly nothing about believers who have not been baptized. There may be believers who do not dwell in Kansas, yet they are still saved; and there may be believers who have not been baptized, yet they, too, are still saved.

The one specific condition required for salvation is stated in the second part of Mark 16:16: “Whoever does not believe will be condemned.” In essence, Jesus has given both the positive condition of belief (whoever believes will be saved) and the negative condition of unbelief (whoever does not believe will be condemned). Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty that belief is the requirement for salvation. More importantly, we see this condition restated positively and negatively throughout Scripture (John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; Acts 16:31).

Jesus mentions a condition related to salvation (baptism) in Mark 16:16. But a related condition should not be confused with a requirement. For example, having a fever is related to being ill, but a fever is not required for illness to be present. Nowhere in the Bible do we find a statement such as “whoever is not baptized will be condemned.” Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 or any other verse.

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? No, it does not. It clearly establishes that belief is required for salvation, but it does not prove or disprove the idea of baptism being a requirement. How can we know, then, if one must be baptized in order to be saved? We must look to the full counsel of God’s Word. Here is a summary of the evidence:

1—The Bible is clear that we are saved by faith alone. Abraham was saved by faith, and we are saved by faith (Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22).

2—Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g., Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).

3—Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures tell us that we have eternal life the moment we believe (John 5:24), and belief always comes before being baptized. Baptism does not save us any more than walking an aisle or saying a prayer saves us. We are saved when we believe.

4—The Bible never says that if one is not baptized then he is not saved.

5—If baptism were required for salvation, then no one could be saved without another party being present. Someone must be there to baptize a person before he can be saved. This effectively limits who can be saved and when he can be saved. The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to a logical conclusion, are devastating. For example, a soldier who believes on the battlefield but is killed before he can be baptized would go to hell.

6—Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24)—all before he or she is baptized.

If you believe in baptismal regeneration, you would do well to prayerfully consider whom or what you are really putting your trust in. Is your faith in a physical act (being baptized) or in the finished work of Christ on the cross? Whom or what are you trusting for salvation? Is it the shadow (baptism) or the substance (Jesus Christ)? Our faith must rest in Christ alone. “We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).

Recommended Resource: Believer's Baptism: Sign of the New Covenant in Christ by Schriener and Wright

 
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Rancor
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

SINGING

November 29 2017, 11:06 PM 

Rancor
(no login) 68.74.186.218
Message Title: SINGING
November 29 2017, 6:19 PM

====================================

Question: "What does it mean that God will rejoice over us with singing (Zephaniah 3:17)?"

Answer: Zephaniah 3:17 includes an interesting description of God singing over people: “The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing.”

Two important observations regarding this passage: first, singing represents God’s joy. The Hebrew phrase translated “he will rejoice over you with singing” can also be translated literally as “he rejoices over you with a shout of joy.”

Second, God’s singing parallels the singing of His people in Jerusalem. “Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion!” (verse 14). This unit of poetry begins with the people of Jerusalem singing praise to God and ends with God singing over His people. God rejoices with His people, and He expresses joy when His people praise Him.

The question then is, why is God so joyful? This passage of Zephaniah speaks of a future time when God has ended His judgment upon Israel. All of their enemies have been destroyed, and Israel is entering a time of safety and blessing (verses 8, 15, 19). Zephaniah is speaking of the future millennial kingdom when the Messiah (Jesus) will reign with His people in Jerusalem (Isaiah 9:7; Revelation 20:1–6).

The word picture in Zephaniah 3:17 is full of emotion. God the Father is the One who holds His daughter Jerusalem and sings joyfully in her presence. Just as a loving parent cradles a child and sings out of love, so God’s song over His people is born of His great love. After a time of hardship, our loving Lord dries His people’s tears, comforts their hearts, and welcomes them to a new world.

Finally, Jesus also taught in the New Testament that “there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents” (Luke 15:10). Whether or not God Himself sings in this passage is not made clear, but it is clear there is rejoicing in God’s presence when those who are lost repent and are made right with God (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:16).

Recommended Resource: Nahum, Habakkuk, & Zephaniah, New International Commentary on the Old Testament by O. Palmer Robertson

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Network54.com/Forum

November 30 2017, 12:05 PM 


[linked image]

 
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Rancor
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Music in Church

November 30 2017, 11:22 PM 

===========================
Rancor
(no login) 68.74.186.218
Message Title: Music in Church
November 30 2017, 3:50 PM
===========================


Question: "Contemporary Christian music - is it honoring to God? Should it be used in church services?"

Answer: The question of contemporary Christian music (CCM) and whether it is God-honoring and appropriate for worship services is one that has been debated for decades. Oddly enough, what should be a source of loveliness and peace—the sweet strains of music—very often produces among Christians hostile disagreements over selections in worship music. In fact, it has become a leading cause of congregational infighting and even church splits! To our shame, there are believers who sulk and fume from their pews if their particular brand of musical taste is not satisfied. Studies in churches are showing that music ministers are among the most stressed people in Christian ministry.

Musical tastes are as varied as church members themselves. There are those who love the old hymns while others much prefer more contemporary Christian music. Some music ministers have attempted to appease everyone by blending the old with the new. Other churches offer two separate worship services each Sunday—one being traditional and the other a contemporary service. Still, there are churches that tenaciously cling to old-fashioned tradition. A local pastor is fond of bragging, "You won't hear any contemporary Christian music in our church! We remain true to the old hymns!" What he fails to realize is that even the old hymns were "contemporary" when they were first written. In contrast, there are churches in which the music is played at an ear-splitting volume resembling that of an armored vehicle crossing a minefield.

There are those who argue the old hymns are a tangible link to our past. This is certainly true, for these hymns have surely withstood the test of time. Many of the old hymns, too, are rich in Christian doctrine. The lyrics of Charles Wesley or Martin Luther, as examples, give magnificent instruction in sound Christian theology. But there are also some wonderful Christian artists glorifying the name of Christ Jesus with their talents right now. Far too often we allow our own personal taste in music to become the standard for what music is glorifying to God. Instead, we should allow, even promote, Christian freedom and grace in musical preferences. Our primary concern should be for well-being and harmony in the body of Christ, and sometimes that means subordinating personal preferences to the greater good.

People are always asking if drums or keyboards or, yes, if electric guitars belong in the church. All musical instruments are, in themselves, neither good nor bad. So the question is this: Does a piece of music edify believers while bringing honor and glory to Christ Jesus? If so, then what difference does it make if the accompaniment is provided by a piano or a guitar? Perhaps Ephesians 5:19 is the answer to this issue in that it promotes worshipping the Lord and encouraging other believers in three different "styles" of music: "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord."

Recommended Resource: Christian Music: A Global History by Tim Dowley

 
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Rancor
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Network54.com/Forum

November 30 2017, 4:51 PM 

Silas And Paul Sang
November 30 2017, 4:19 PM

Question: "What can we learn from the life of Silas?"

Answer: Silas was a leader in the early church, a fellow missionary with Paul, and a “faithful brother” (1 Peter 5:12). He was a Hellenistic Jew who, it seems, was also a Roman citizen (Acts 16:37). He is also referred to as “Silvanus” in Paul’s Epistles (e.g., 1 Thessalonians 1:1).

When we first meet Silas in Scripture, he is a leader and teacher in the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:22, 32). After the Jerusalem Council, Silas was chosen to help communicate the council’s decision to Antioch, along with the apostle Paul. Soon afterwards, Paul set out on his second missionary journey, and he chose Silas to accompany him (Acts 15:40-41).

On this journey, Paul and Silas traveled to Greece. In Philippi, the missionaries were arrested, beaten, and imprisoned. But “about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them” (Acts 16:25). God then miraculously released them, and the jailer, having witnessed their faith, asked them, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” Paul and Silas answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (verses 30-31). The jailer was saved that night, and he and his family were all baptized. The next day, the city officials learned that Paul and Silas were Roman citizens, and they were immediately fearful; their mistreatment of Paul and Silas the day before had violated Roman law. The city leaders immediately released Paul and Silas from custody. The missionaries left town, but they left behind a body of believers—the first church in Europe.

The start of the Philippian church is a great reminder that, even in extremely difficult times, God can bring about great things. God will glorify His name, even through our trials and tribulations. Paul and Silas had this perspective, and that’s why they were able to sing at midnight.

The fact that the prisoners were “listening” to Paul and Silas singing hymns is not a detail to be skipped over lightly. As followers of Jesus Christ, we, too, have people watching how we react to life’s circumstances. If Paul and Silas had been griping or protesting or whining about the injustice of their situation, the jailer would have never been drawn to believe in the Lord Jesus. But they responded to their situation gracefully and with joy—their actions were completely foreign to how others expected them to react. Because they were “salt” and “light” (Matthew 5:13-14), others had their hearts opened to the gospel.

Later, Silas and Timothy ministered in Berea (Acts 17:14), and Silas spent extra time in Corinth, ministering after Paul left that city. Silas served with Peter as well; in fact, he is thought to have delivered the epistle of 1 Peter to its recipients (1 Peter 5:12).

Silas is a great example of someone who used his gifts to serve the Lord and others with all his heart. The apostles called him “faithful,” and he was known as one to “encourage and strengthen the brothers” (Acts 15:32). Multitudes in the early church were blessed by Silas, and Paul and Peter were heartened by his faithful companionship. Silas was “a brother . . . born for adversity” (Proverbs 17:17).

Recommended Resource: The Great Lives from God's Word Series by Chuck Swindoll

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Network54.com/Forum

November 30 2017, 5:00 PM 

And so Paul PREACHED so that he had something to believe

[linked image]

No one is called a BELIEVER who has not OBEYED what they have been taught.

Rom. 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Network54.com/Forum

November 30 2017, 5:09 PM 

Musical tastes are as varied as church members themselves. There are those who love the old hymns while others much prefer more contemporary Christian music. Some music ministers have attempted to appease everyone by blending the old with the new. Other churches offer two separate worship services each Sunday—one being traditional and the other a contemporary service. Still, there are churches that tenaciously cling to old-fashioned tradition. A local pastor is fond of bragging, "You won't hear any contemporary Christian music in our church! We remain true to the old hymns!" What he fails to realize is that even the old hymns were "contemporary" when they were first written. In contrast, there are churches in which the music is played at an ear-splitting volume resembling that of an armored vehicle crossing a minefield.

There is no command, example or remote inference of God's people being called out of the REST to engage in group singing with or without instruments.

The problem is that the UNCONVERTED whatever their "scholarship" or FleeceShipe are not permitted to read BLACK text on BROWN PAPER.

SCRIPTURE

Eph. 5:19 SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,

ALL APOSTATES ARE FORCED TO SEE THAT ACTIVE PRACTICE AS:

Eph. 5:19 SINGING to OTHERS in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,

Psalms, hymns and spiritual songa are all in the BOOK called Psalms. There are many "poetic" passages of THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING which can be divided into syllables and spoken to a one or two note MELODY.

SUPRISE Psallo never means AUDIBLE musical melody: MELOS the melody word defines CUTTING THE TEXT INTO MEMBERS for Cantillation.

Surprise Two: Melody has nothing to do with HARMONY and Scriptural harmony means speaking the same things often with two voices.

SURPRISE three:

[linked image]



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Network54.com/Forum

December 1 2017, 11:09 AM 

Before giving one permission to pray and sing or recite a hymn we should note that Acts 26 has a series of things.

First, rather than being in a synagogue these merchant ladies went out by the River to pray. Scripture says that if we want to find Jesus the twos and threes will have to go outside the city to REST and LEARN of me

Second, Paul defines the young girl with a spirit of divination which refute Apollon and HIS worship. He is the Leader of His musical worship team composed of bad girls who knew how to sing some songs that were NOT true.

Then, we will look at whether you can sing or even pluck your harp if they cast YOU into prison where there will be wailing now called CCM.

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night;
.....There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying,
.....Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
Acts 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia,
.....assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to PREACH THE GOSPEL UNTO THEM
Acts 16:11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;
Acts 16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony:
.....and we were in that city abiding certain days.

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side,
.....where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down,
.....and SPAKE unto the women which resorted thither.

Sabbath is the Greek:

G2250. hemera, hay-mer´-ah; feminine (with 5610 implied) of a derivative of h∞mai hemai (to sit; akin to the base of 1476) meaning tame, i.e. gentle; day, i.e. (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively, a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): — age, + alway, (mid-)day (by day, (-ly)), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.

considered by the Romans to have been ordained as a fast-day.

Acts 16:20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city,
Acts 16:21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.

4335. proseuch/ proseuche, pros-yoo-khay´; from 4336; prayer (worship); by implication, an oratory (chapel): — x pray earnestly, prayer.

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple,
.....of the city of Thyatira [Turkey], which WORSHIPPED God, heard us:
.....whose heart the Lord opened, [to HEAR THE GOSPEL]
.....that she ATTENDED UNTO unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

THE COMMAND TO PREACH THE GOSPEL:

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
.....and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

OF THOSE ACCEPTING THE "SEED" OF THE WORD THERE IS NO OPTION:

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

THE LADIES ATTENDED TO THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL AND BELIEVED:

Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying,
.....If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.


I will move the PYTHIAN SPIRIT of the young girl to the APOLLYON LINK.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 1, 2017 3:07 PM


 
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Rancor
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Network54.com/Forum

December 14 2017, 4:26 PM 

December 14 2017, 4:01 PM
Only days Left

A sign from Heaven?

I do believe the door will close at midnight for concerned members.

Donnie

Network54 was nice to me and let me keep a working "search tool". I will get a working copy as we have now with the flaws. Bye.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Network54.com/Forum

December 5 2017, 11:33 PM 

I don't really know what to think of Network54's technical support. The APPROVE button is still not working.

And now the RETURN TO INDEX button has disappeared. (The workaround here is to click Madison Church of Christ at the top of the homepage -- it has a link to:http://www.network54.com/Forum/150389/ )

Sorry, folks. sad.gifsad.gifsad.gif

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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