Let me start by saying that the Iceflyer is an absolute blast to sail. I friend and I built 2 a few years ago, and we sail them every chance we get. I was lucky enough to get all the OEM parts from Wally before production stopped.

Has anyone built a Classic and altered the plans to "improve" the boat? Or to save time etc. etc. I think this forum should be about exchanging building tips as well as sailing tips. My Classic has 3 alterations to the plans.

First, it was difficult to find a single peice of Sitka Spruce that would accomodate the entire side of the boat. I think we'd have needed a 2x12, and then that was cutting it close too. What we ended up doing is gluing 2 2x6's together to get the depth we needed. The glue joint goes from the front part of where you sit to almost the back of the boat. It is very strong, and saved us alot of time looking for the right wood, and also some money.

Second, instead of making the bottom 3 separate peices of 3/4" plywood at slight angles, we decided to make it one single continuous peice. We rounded off the angles on the bottom of the sides, and then used 1/4" Marine grade plywood to cover the bottom. The plywood bottom is epoxied and screwed to the bottom of the Sitka boat sides. We thought this would make it a bit lighter, and stronger since it was one peice. I figure the bottom of the boat is in tension, so having a single continuous peice with no seams made sense to me.

Third, After a pretty interesting crash, I decided to put the front springboard UNDER the boat instead of inside the boat. In the crash, I hit an open spot in the ice and skipped over and impacted the 12-15" of ice on the other side. It was a pretty sudden stop. The boat was fine, but the springboard and front chock were toast. I was a little uneasy after seeing that happen. In a larger crash, the spring board could have separated from the boat, and impaled the sailor. Very remote, but possible. Instead of putting the Spring board back where it was, I bolted it to the underside of the boat. That way, it will deflect under the boat and away from the sailor. The foot pedals are still bolted to the old springboard that I left in the boat. I cut it off very short, so functionally, the boat remains the same. I may be nuts, but it seems safer. It would take a very significant impact to rip the spring board from the boat, and I can't image it actually happening, but then I didn't think I'd ever get wet either. I feel safer with the plywood boat bottom between me and that spring board. Also, at a minimum, I think the springboard should be wrapped in fiberglass cloth to help prevent splintering in the case of impact.

So anyway, those are my three ideas. Anyone got any others?

Kieth, interesting crash where the front of the boat hits something and comes to a very quick stop. From my experience, I dont think accidents get more dangerous than that. Ive seen the same thing at least a few times in ice flyers and have seen the front spring board delaminate in the impact but Ive never seen it become dangerous. The delaminating I think is a good thing as it absorbs some of the impact energy. One accident was a guy who weighed about 260 pounds and was wound up on a 5.5 m sail so it was windy and he was likely going in the mid 50's to maybe 60 mph and droped a front runner in. The boat smashed into the ice side but popped out of the hole and he was going about 40 mph slower.. It delaminated the front beam and just about ripped the seat belt strap strap apart but he was probably sore but not injured (I think the Ice Flyer is an unusually safe boat to have this sort of accident). However, all the accidents Ive seen like this were in the glass boats so this is something to take into account. Disclaimer - this is not at all a claim that the ice flyer is safe! But the open cockpit and free from boom/sail clutter and upright sitting position allow seats belts to be used with a reasonable chance of getting out of them if the boat goes into the water. In your case, did you feel like the front spring board on the top had become dangerous? I dont have the experience with the classic for this type of accident and would be curious.

I personally like to experiement but also wonder if the re-sale on what you build depents on how close it is to the plans. Familiar and known designs tend to be much easier to turn than unuiqe boats.

The other thing I see are boats that are not ice flyers but are small with rear sails. People used raked sails and I think this puts a big imbalance between the boats center of gravity and the sail CE. Balancing forces is probably easier with a windsurfing sail on a boat as small as an ice flyer and its the main reason that the sail often times looks like its raked forward.

The other interesting thing about the location of the sail on the ice flyer is that Ive noticed that it gets "quieter" when I set with my head near the mast and the wind gets "noisier" as I move my head forward and away from the mast/sail. I also recently rode as a passanger on different type of land yacht where I had about the same exposure to the wind as on the ice flyer but it felt "windier" than what I feel on the ice flyer when Im right next to the mast. Ill take all that to mean that the mast/sail just behind me is lowering my body drag..

How about this ice me and a buddy had Sunday a few days ago here in Colorado with 10 to 20 mph winds!

Hey Wally. Nice Ice. Those are the kind of days that make iceboaters drool. To answer your question, in my crash, I don’t think the springboard on top had become dangerous. The springboard relative to the hull did not budge. The chock twisted and split the front portion of the springboard. It was only after the crash in looking at what had happened did we start to think that it was possible (in a much more violent crash) that the springboard could separate and hit you right where you don’t want to be hit. It would take a tremendous crash and it may never happen, but I figured why not put it on the bottom and put that plywood between me and the springboard.

From a construction standpoint, it would be easier to put the springboard on the bottom because the front of the boat would not have that rectangle cut out of it. One drawback is that you need to put another piece to mount the foot pedals to. This adds a little weight, but not much.

I don’t think that anyone looking at my boat would say that it’s not 100% iceflyer. The design is still there, there are just a few minor changes. The springboard can still be put on top if desired. I wouldn’t think that the way I built the sides would even be noticed unless you were building one and specifically had trouble finding a 1x12 piece of spruce. I’d post some pics if I could figure out how.

I know you may not want to say this from a liability standpoint, but the plans call for a bombproof boat. If built per the plans by someone that understands basic woodworking, then that is exactly what people will get. The iceflyer is probably more beefy that most if not all DN’s, and the Iceflyer doesn’t see nearly the stress on the hull that a traditionally rigged (sail-mast-boom) boat does.

Keith, thanks! When Im sitting in the boat and imagining where the spring board would hit on my body if it did let loose, well, it would hurt really-really bad.. I think both the classis and the glass boats probably are overbuilt somewhat and the reason is Georgetown res in Colorado - this place sees just violently gusty winds and stuff that got broke up there got re-designed over and over. By the way, I do really like the idea of a single piece of wood on the bottom and Im guessing it makes for some nice continuous "lines" on the bottom.

Here are some other ideas Im also thinking about.

First, Ive never yet built a foiled down force rear beam that I thought had too much lift but I have built them that I though were too wide and slid too much. Ive been running a 9 foot beam with the chocks "inside out" so that the actual ice contact points is about 8.5 feet and I really like the feel of this. So what I may do next is to build a down force air foil beam that is maybe 10 or over but still has the chocks mounted so that the ice contact is at 8.5 feet. The end of the beam would be rounded partially for looks (to look more like an airplane wind) but the ends sticking out past the chock would also act as an "anti tip over" device because if you ever got in a hike high enough, the end of the rear beam would contact the ice and lift the runner and the back end of the boat would just slide out rather than the boat going over. I havent tried it yet but I think chances are the extra lift would be faster on the iceflyer configuration.

The second thing I think this design needs is a "dead mans" steering skew and this would pretty much eliminate the last safety problem the design has which is that the boat will sometimes go with by itself with no pilot(most times it wont and I dont know why). Its also why there are also sorts of warnings about correctly parking the boat with the steering skewed and not relying on the standard runner brake. If you park the boat with the steering skewed over to one side, the boat will at the worst go in a circle but mostly even without any other brake, it will just sit there in the wind rocking back and forth as the direction changes. So some soft of dead mans function would have a chord of something you clipped to your self and if the chord is pulled, a spring action pulls the steering to one side. It would also make parking the boat very simple as you would just pull the chord (or something like that) and reset when you wanted to sail.

On the sail, Ive done some things that I think overall add some benifit and that is the PVC pipe on the front of the sail leading edge (as crazy as it seems, I think this does work) and also stiffening the battens just behind the mast. The stiffend battens may help because Im putting an extra mast piece in the bottom of my main mast and this tends to put too much shape at the leading edge which I partially am taking out with the stiffer battens - but I also use this sail windsurfing without the stiffener and maybe the other guys didnt know they were being raced but the sail doesnt get passed. I also am using a flexible "fence" behind and under the sail which evolved and distorted from an experiement to close the gap but I also think this might make a difference.

Too bad you guys didnt live closer to the dry lake beds in Nevada (like Smith Creek near Austin). Land sailing on the dry lake beds with some sort of speed trials would be a great way to see if some of these ideas were making a difference. The nice thing about dry lake beds is that they are good day after day (usually - a big rain storm can change things real fast but this is really rare and things also "usually" recover quickly).

Hi !
Here is how i have change the way the mast connect to the mast helper.
I change it because the strap didn't really work for me .
I have damage my mast and i decide to find a better way at least a more stronger way to connect them togheter.
I have use a PVC tube that fits in my mast . I put a rubber around so the fastener wont move. I've made a metal bracket that will joint the helper mast with a 3/8" bolt.

So, i only need too insert my bracket in the mast when i put up my sail and when i'm ready to put the sail up on the mast helper, i just align my bracket on the mast helper and i put the bolt on . that's it !
Its very solid and protect my mast at the same time.
see pictures.