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jim
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rule change and 380 vs. 9mm

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February 12 2010, 1:43 AM 

The original desination for the .380 auto caliber was 9mm kurtz or 9mm short. With that in mind the 9mm is still okay.

 
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PPC ken
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Re: rule change and 380 vs. 9mm

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February 12 2010, 1:59 PM 

I appreciate the response; however, while what you say may be historically accurate - the "new" rules specifically say .380" caliber and delete reference to 9mm (.355"). If a protest were to "lawyer up" I feel your interpretation may be in jeopardy. Things like this need to be resolved prior to the big match. Just my thoughts. ken

 
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jim
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9mm vs .380

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February 12 2010, 8:38 PM 

ken,

the .380 projectile is measured/recommended at .356 and .355 for the 9mm, surely 1/1000 wont create that much of a wave at the judges table...

 
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Unregistered Member
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Re: PPC 2010 rules changes

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February 12 2010, 11:14 PM 

yeah just my two cents (which in this economy aint worth much) but my speer reloading book has .380 listed as .355 bullets.

 
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LR45
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9mm is "larger"

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February 14 2010, 11:32 AM 

Guys,if Im reading this right it means: ".380 cal. or larger." the 9mm is larger. There is no common .380" rounds or we all have to shoot 10mm or .40 S&W. Not even the .38 spl is ".380 or larger". So the literal written rule is invalid or it's way screwed up and PPC is over.

I'm sure the NRA is just trying to weed out the odd ball 5.7 as a "service or off duty gun".

 
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Espen
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Re: 9mm is "larger"

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February 14 2010, 3:54 PM 

No! It reads .380 CALIBER, It does not mention the specific cartridge name .380 Automatic Colt Pistol.
That makes the 9mm, .38 Special, .357 Mag to small. Even the .375 Super Magnum is to small happy.gif

 
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PPC Ken
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Re: 9mm is "larger"

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February 14 2010, 8:37 PM 

Thanks guys. That's the way I read the regs as written also. Now, how about the 7.5" sight radius on the new 6" distinguish pistol??? ken

 
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dp251
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Re: 9mm is "larger"

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February 14 2010, 10:38 PM 

well i guess its time to tune up the .45

 
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JB
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Re: 9mm is "larger"

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February 15 2010, 9:47 AM 

I am jumping down the rabbit hole too.
A true .380 cal is the 9.8mm Auto Colt cartridge. Bullet diameter is .380.The .380acp,aka,auto colt pistol,.380auto,9mm Browning,9mm Corto,9mm Kurtz,9mm Short,9X17mm,9mm Kratak,9mm Scurt has a bullet diameter of .355 like the 9X18 Luger/Parabellum round. Not to be confused with the 9X18 Makarov(.364 diameter) Put that .45 back in its holster. Right now I am late, am late for a very important date

 
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JB
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Re: 9mm is "larger"

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February 15 2010, 10:14 AM 

Late thought, apparantly rule doesnt state .380 diameter bullet, just .380 cal, so even though I dont have a lawyers degree, would say still safe with the 9mm as the .380 cal is a 9mm catagory designation. Ok,back to my date.
PS the .380 Auto and Super are .356 diameter bullets.

 
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CALREB
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arrrrrrgggghhhhh

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February 15 2010, 7:52 PM 

Hi Guys, isnt this fun, I only hope that the NRA has the new rules published,book out and everything a little while before nationals.I would hate to be standing in line having everyone debate this stuff.I have a 6" springfield with just aristocrat sights on it and the sight radius is EXACTLY 7.5 inches. My question is what will they consider catalog item, it is in the custom shop catalog,as for the regular factory catalog the only 6" is a .45. However the S+W PC guns arent in their standard catalog so what will be allowed. Also for stock guns can people now use their 5" S&W distinguished guns , sight radius is only 7" ,or will the (service type )sights rule them out, 952 ? sights are ok hmmmm ! Flared grips No No, magwell ok ? most magwells add some amount of flaring, So many questions, OH yeah, but 5.7X28 is OK, . Well one thing about it the new matrix has created ALOT of new interest in our sport,heck I,m interested in finding out stuff again, only took me 30 years to figure it out last time.(EAGERLY AWAITING MY NEW RULEBOOK) Bob

 
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Bob
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here we go again

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February 25 2010, 12:25 AM 

Well I havent had much time to review the new rules that are now out but the first thing I noticed is the Dist S/A max sight radius has been changed to 8.5 so now all smith and wessons PPC even the 6" are ok and any other 6 " 1911 that will meet those specs ,as long as it's parts are from the manufacturer, or similar,no bull barrels or ribs. Now if we can find out if aristocrat sights are ok for stock class everyone can just bring one 5" gun and shoot about everything . OH GOODY more to follow. See YA!

 
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PPCFW
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Semi Auto Rules

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March 3 2010, 4:40 PM 

Here are the changes to the Semi Auto Rules:

Rule 3.6 Open Class Semi-Automatic Pistol: Center-fire pistols of .35
caliber or larger. Trigger pull not less than 3.5 pounds single or double
action. All double action semi-automatic pistols must fire the first shot of
every stage double action except at the 50-yard line.
Allowed:
1. Maximum barrel length of 6 inches.
2. Maximum sight radius of 8.5 inches.
3. Sight guards but they may not extend rearward more than 2 inches.
4. Extended magazine well funnel.
5. Magazine bumper pads.
Rule 3.7 Distinguished Semi-Automatic Pistol: Factory manufactured
(catalog item) center-fire semi-automatic pistol capable of chambering and
firing .35 caliber or larger ammunition, or FN 5.7 x 28 caliber ammunition.
Trigger pull must not be less than 3.5 pounds single or double action. All
double action semi-automatic pistols must fire the first shot of every stage
double action except at the 50 yard line.
Allowed:
1. Maximum barrel length of 6 inches.
2. Any accessories, parts, and components which are manufactured to
duplicate, in materials and dimensions, the original as offered by the
manufacturer.
3. Open sights, from any manufacturer.
4. Maximum sight radius of 7.5 inches.
5. Finger groove and slip on grips.
6. Extended magazine well funnel.
7. Magazine bumper pads.
Prohibited:
1. Adjustable front sights.
2. Thumb rest.
3. Grips/Stocks that are flared at the base.
4. Tape on the grips/stocks.
5. Any substance that results in a sticky surface to the grips/stocks or
hand.
6. Full-length Bo-Mar type ribs on the slide.
7. Weighted grips grip panels.
Rule 3.8 Stock Semi-Automatic Pistol: Factory manufactured (catalog
item), center-fire semi-automatic pistol capable of chambering and firing
.35 caliber or larger ammunition, or FN 5.7 x 28 caliber ammunition. All
double action semi-automatic pistols must fire the first shot of every stage
double action. Trigger pull not less than 3.5 pounds single or double
action.
Allowed:
1. Maximum barrel length of 5.5 inches.
2. Any accessories, parts, and components which are manufactured to
duplicate, in materials and dimensions, the original as offered by the
manufacturer.
3. Replacement service type luminescent or fiber optic sights.
4. Maximum sight radius of 7.5 inches.
5. Finger groove and slip on grips.
6. Magazine bumper pad.
7. Extended magazine well funnel.
Prohibited:
1. Adjustable front sight.
2. Thumb rest.
3. Grips/stocks that are flared at the base.
4. Tape on the grips/stocks.
5. Any substance that results in a sticky surface to the grips/stocks or
hand.
6. Full-length Bo-mar type ribs on the slide.
7. Weighted grips or grip panels.
8. Trigger shoes.
Rule 3.9 Off Duty Pistol: A stock factory manufactured (catalog item)
center-fire semi-automatic pistol suitable for off duty concealed carry,
chambered for and capable of firing .380 caliber ammunition or larger.
Trigger weight may not be less than 3.5 pounds single or double action.
All double action semi-automatic pistols must fire the first shot of every
match or stage double action.
Allowed:
1. Maximum barrel length of 3.65 inches.
2. Finger groove and slip on grips.
3. Magazine bumper pad.
4. Magazine grip extensions, if when installed add no more than one
finger width to the overall length of the magazine when inserted.
5. Extended magazines, if no more than one finger width of the
magazine is exposed when the magazine is inserted.
6. Replacement service type luminescent or fiber optic sights.
7. Extended magazine well funnel.
Prohibited:
1. Bo-Mar style ribs on the slide.
2. Trigger shoes.
3. Weighted grips or grip panels.
4. Any substance that results in a sticky surface to the stock or hand.

 
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Bob
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max sight radius for dist Semi auto

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March 5 2010, 12:19 AM 

The max sight radius for the Distinguished Semi Auto as shown on the NRA LEAD rule changes is now 8.5, the same as the open gun so people with a S#W 6" PPC or a 1911 that fits the catalog rules can now shoot open or dist S/A with the same gun.I hope they wont keep changing this for the sake of people trying to get a gun to fit the bill, Bob

 
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Pvent
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PPC 2010 Rules changes

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March 24 2010, 3:07 PM 

This is from NRA Marc Lippman


Hi Sergeant Lopez,



Yes, you may now have an adjustable rear service sights on your Stock Semi-Automatic pistol.



As before concerning the type of sight it remains a service type fixed or adjustable sight. It now is the same sight requirement and allowances we have had with the Service Revolver for years. Sights need to be service type, commonly called by most officers and manufacturers duty sights. Quick adjustable, target sights, and sights such as the Aristocrat Auto 6, TS-45 and RS-45 models are not allowed since they are not service/duty sights. As before your service sights can also use luminescent, or fiber optic service sights.



If you first check PPC Rule 3.1 it shows what is generally Allowed or Prohibited on ALL PPC firearms.



Rule Section 3.1 All Firearms: With respect to Rules 3.2 through 3.9, and in addition to the firearm specific regulations below, the following features are either allowed or prohibited on all of the firearms described.



Allowed:



1. Sight blackening.

2. Fixed or adjustable sights.

3. Action work to make a crisper and/or smoother trigger pull.

4. Stocks may be modified or changed because of the size of a competitors hand or to facilitate loading.



Prohibited:



1. Compensators, barrel venting, barrel porting.

2. Internal modifications that would render the firearm less safe than originally designed by the manufacturer.

3. Any external modifications, except those allowed within each rule.

4. The front sight may not extend beyond the muzzle.



Then when you check PPC Rule 3.8 for Stock Semi-Automatic Pistols you can see any additional Allowances or Prohibitions that specifically deal with Stock Semi-Automatic Pistols. Since 3.8 does not Prohibit adjustable rear sights they are Allowed.



Rule 3.8 Stock Semi-Automatic Pistol: Factory manufactured (catalog item), center-fire semi-automatic pistol capable of chambering and

firing .35 caliber or larger ammunition, or FN 5.7 x 28 caliber ammunition. All double action semi-automatic pistols must fire the first

shot of every stage double action. Trigger pull not less than 3.5 pounds single or double action.



Allowed:



1. Maximum barrel length of 5.5 inches.

2. Any accessories, parts, and components which are manufactured to duplicate, in materials and dimensions, the original as offered by the manufacturer.

3. Replacement of service type sights with luminescent, or fiber optic service sights.

4. Maximum sight radius of 7.5 inches.

5. Finger groove and slip on grips.

6. Magazine bumper pad.

7. Extended magazine well funnel.



Prohibited:



1. Adjustable front sight.

2. Thumb rest.

3. Grips/stocks that are flared at the base.

4. Tape on the grips/stocks.

5. Any substance that results in a sticky surface to the grips/stocks or hand.

6. Full-length Bo-mar type ribs on the slide.

7. Weighted grips or grip panels.

8. Trigger shoes.





Thanks for contacting us on this. Should you have any additional questions or if there is anything we can do for you here at the Law Enforcement Division please do not hesitate to give us a shout. You can reach our staff at 703.267.1632 or by e-mail at LECompetitions@nrahq.org.



Hope you have a great shootings season and we see you at the Nationals in September.



Marc

 
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