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Nationals opiniion

October 4 2014 at 12:34 PM
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x-cop  (Login x-cop)

 
Just logged into the results for this years Nationals. Looks like they had about 238 shoot! What a poor showing for what used to be an elite match. When is the N.R.A. going to wise up and get it to a more central location? Am I wrong? I know PPC is on the down hill course, but with the move to New Mexico went down faster. When they had a chance to locate it in Memphis and didnt, big mistake.What is in Albuqurque to draw people? Nothing I can think of except sand and wind.Just my opinion. Suggestions/opinions?, everyone has one.

 
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Unregistered Member
(Login tpahs2)

Re: Nationals opiniion

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October 4 2014, 2:56 PM 

I drove 26 hours to attend this year and the numbers were sad. The vendor representation was also sad, springfield armory and S&W both were there as always to support those that support them but apparently Sig and STI dont feel the same. It would be nice if they would alternate locations to different regions.

 
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x-cop
(Login x-cop)

Nationals opiniion

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October 4 2014, 4:44 PM 

Ok, you drove "26" hours to attend a match you prob saved for all year. Poor commercial row, what does that tell you? What do you have once you are there? Anything for spouce or kids to do unless you like looking at sand?
What were the awards like. Was the little guy and new shooters(if any) taken care of? It used to be a really presdigious event!
Any banquets or door prizes anymore?
You talked to the competitors I assume, what is the general consensus about this match now?
Will the N.R.A. listen if majority feel this way? Right now get the feeling NO!

 
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robert
(Login rminut)

Re: Nationals opiniion

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October 8 2014, 8:19 PM 

well, I can tell you one thing the NRA could do to increase participation and that's allow civilians. There will be nobody shooting this course in short order, and the sad thing is many people currently shooting it will be alright with that. I've been snubbed a couple of times due to being non L.E.O. but would just like to participate because I like the course of fire compared to all the run and gun pistol events these days, I have no interest in that stuff.
I know some events currently allow civilians but the NRA needs to officially state in the rules that civilians are allowed because many events only allow L.E.O. and their participation is dwindling fast.

What good is it if there is nobody to compete with?

Thanks for letting me rant.

 
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JB
(Login x-cop)

Nationals opiniion

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October 8 2014, 10:14 PM 

Well Robert you have a legitimate suggestion my opinion.We opened our PPC matches to civilians in hopes of getting participation.We got one and he never came back. PPC is in stage 4 and teminal. I am afraid you are correct, that many could care less if it was over tomorrow. What a shame. We used to have 40 plus show up at our local matches(St.Louis),now we are lucky to get 5 show. Hell cant even get that many to show up at a regional im many cases. If not wrong I dont think Memphis or Cedar Rapids had that many attend this year.
A lot of the officers would rather play golf, fish ,or do something other than shoot let alone competition. I work at a police academy and try my best to get some of the cadets to come and compete in our matches. Cant get one to show up.Some do not own or have never shot a handgun. They want to be cops, and they show up for the firearms training because they have to(not all)fortunately. They shoot when they train, and that is it for the most part.They go home to their other interests and texting and forget about shooting until next range date. They dont realize or care that competition can be a great training tool. Many will not touch a gun after they graduate.Many after and when they get hired will not shoot except for the one day a year they have to qualify. Many will have to wait 6 mos. to a year before getting hired and forget everything we teach them.
I am finished with my rant. Good luck, hope you dont get snubbed too much in the future.

 
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Unregistered Member
(Login alc49)

Re: Nationals opiniion

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October 9 2014, 2:59 PM 

Location isn't the reason for poor attendance. The big problem is the people NRA has running LE Competitions. They are doing their best to destroy PPC, and are doing an excellent job.

 
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Robert
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Re: Nationals opiniion

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October 9 2014, 3:15 PM 

I don't know the specifics about who is running PPC but I know that Dennis Willing is the NRA competitions director and from what I have seen he is open to communications. He has 4 Distinguished Badges, 2 are PPC, but I feel that change has to come from the members within the group. If I as a civilian as for change it does not have the same effect as coming from the current shooting group.
If you guys want to see more participation, you have to write him and ask for change. There is only one reason why other action pistol events have increased participation and PPC is dying fast, the people within the group don't want change. The bigger problem is, dying off is a change and that is what they are getting.

 
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Unregistered Member
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DENNIS WILLING

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October 9 2014, 4:48 PM 

DENNIS WILLING IS IN CHARGE OF NRA COMPETITIONS, YES. BUT PPC IS NOT GOVERNED BY NRA COMPETITIONS DIVISION. IT IS AUTONOMOUS UNDER THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SECTION. JP

 
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Robert
(Login rminut)

Re: DENNIS WILLING

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October 10 2014, 1:36 PM 

JP, thanks for your reply, i've seen your name in many forums over the years. I can see how civilians would not be allowed at the Police National's and I agree with that. I emailed Dennis and he forwarded it to Glen at the Police side. I guess my point is that the rulebook, in my reading, doesn't state specifically that civilians can shoot at Regional events and below.
I think because of this specific non-wording that match directors dismiss any requests to attend even though Glen replied to me that there is a civilian division in PPC. I don't know how the Canadian or European rule book is worded but the sport is very popular there compared to the US and I think we can improve that here with a rulebook wording change. I had sent a couple of requests to match directors and they quickly replied "NO" because I was not LEO. Why is there a civilian division if we are not allowed to compete at Regional events?

 
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Unregistered Member
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Re: DENNIS WILLING

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October 10 2014, 6:36 PM 

SORRY BUT I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER. GIVE ME A FEW DAYS TO REREAD THE NEWEST RULE BOOK. JP

 
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JB
(Login x-cop)

DENNIS WILLING

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October 10 2014, 9:40 PM 

This pretty well spells it out unless amended
Police Eligibility Requirements
1. Regular full time law enforcement officers of a regularly constituted law enforcement agency of a municipal, county, state or federal government. Full time salaried Transit Police; Penal Institution Guards; Industrial Police; including Bank Guards, and Armored and Express Company Guards. Full time Police Firearms Instructors in Law Enforcement or Police Academies are eligible to compete in the respective police category. Official current identification from the agency employing a civilian full-time police firearms instructor will be required.
2. Persons employed as Industrial Police by private industry on a part-time basis, or where such employment is not the sole occupation of such person, may not compete in NRA Police Pistol Combat tournaments.
3. Officers of a regularly organized Reserve or Auxiliary named in 2.4.1 provided that when on duty they are required to perform the same law enforcement functions and/or duties as the Agency to which they are in reserve and are authorized to be armed by the appointing authority.
2-1
4. Federal Flight Deck Officers who hold valid certifications.
5. Officers who qualify under subsections 1,2 & 3 of this section upon retirement and possessing retired credentials, may enter competition covered by these rules.
Such retirees who are employed after retirement in any agency which qualifies for entry in NRA Police Pistol Combat competition may not compete as a retired officer, but may compete as a member of the organization in which they are presently serving.
6. Members of the Armed Forces of the United States , regular or reserve, private detectives, private body guards, honorary police or sheriffs, consultants, or any other persons who are members of a body organized for ceremonial purposes may not compete in NRA Police Pistol Combat Tournaments regardless of the name given to such a body and regardless of the titles given such members.
7. Military Police: Members of the United States military meeting the following criteria shall be eligible to compete in NRA Police Pistol Combat tournaments:
a. The competitor must be currently assigned to a duly recognized Military Police unit of any of the armed forces of the United States and must have served continuously with that unit, or a similar unit, for a minimum of one year prior to entry into NRA sanctioned competition.
b. The competitor must hold a valid Military Occupation Specialty designation identifying the competitor as a Military Police Officer, Investigator, Correctional Personnel, or the like.
c. Eligibility pursuant to this subsection shall apply equally to active duty regulars, reservists, and members of the National Guard.
2.5 Eligibility Authentication: It is the competitor’s responsibility to have their Law Enforcement Credentials in their possession when entering and competing in Police Pistol Combat Tournaments.
2.6 Law Enforcement Categories: Listed are suggested categories for NRA sanctioned Police Pistol Combat tournaments. Other categories, such as Conservation Officer, may be used if detailed in the Tournament Program.
2-2
Hope this helps some

 
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Unregistered Member
(Login tpahs2)

Re: DENNIS WILLING

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October 10 2014, 10:53 PM 

If you are not a full time officer a great way to get involved is to get into a reserve program at your local police/ sheriff's Dept,this not only helps out your community in a great way but it also makes Leo training and special programs available to you.

 
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jamesrchapman
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Re: DENNIS WILLING

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October 23 2014, 9:34 PM 

Civilians compete in PPC in the NRA Civilian 1500 match under the NRA Action Pistol.

We need to figure out how to co-compete with LE...

Jim

 
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robert
(Login rminut)

Re: DENNIS WILLING

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October 24 2014, 1:11 PM 

Jim,
It would be nice to co-compete but I don't see that happening with the current leadership. It is interesting that I could compete at a different event, action pistol, but not at a PPC event. That is the big disconnect and why I am not moving forward with my interest because I don't want to attend action pistol events just to shoot the one course of fire. It makes no sense to invest money in this because I can't even turn in my scorecard at a PPC event. Why participate? The PPC leadership does not want civilian participation, period.

 
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Tampa Leo
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Re: DENNIS WILLING

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February 10 2015, 7:16 AM 

The head of the ppc from who I've talked to is Marc Lipp. He also runs the tactical rifle division. It think he would like to see ppc go away and only have tactical police competition. He's the problem.

 
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Kris
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Re: DENNIS WILLING

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February 10 2015, 9:09 PM 

Here in Canada anyone is allowed to shoot and we have good turnouts at our matches

 
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