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Nationals- Not confirmed

June 16 2015 at 12:22 PM
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JB  (Login x-cop)

This is an information e-mail I received. Not confirmed, but pretty much what has been rumored. All rumors have to be considered with a grain of salt until proven out of course.

This sent to me by a good friend:

Honestly, I expect no less with the direction of the N.R.A. with the Nationals , and lack of participation and recruitment of new interest from LE. I hope I am wrong, but the demise of PPC is around the corner. With the relocation and "other" signs pretty much indicative of just that.

I cannot say for sure but think this originally came from retired Deputy Chief Mike Castro, Albuquerque PD.

I thought I would give you the heads up on some recent and future changes for the NPSC. This years competition will only see one 1500. The shooter will get to choose his or her best tool, revolver or Semi auto, and they will shoot only one 1500 for the overall score. They are also planning on doing the same for the Service matches, but it is still unclear if that will occur at this years competition.

As for the Distinguished, those with current points (I think what is meant is those already distinguished) making them eligible for the Distinguished Award will be discouraged from shooting. They instead will focus on those shooters who have yet to achieve enough points. This is the NRA's response to shooter complaints regarding the length and expense of the NPSC. As a result, the NPSC will wrap up on Wednesday .

For the future, the NRA will be phasing out Revolver competitions entirely in the next three years. This has been a discussion recently, and the NRA believes it will be better for the sport of PPC. Most of these changes were made at the top level and are still being ironed out. I am certain the elimination of revolvers will cause great controversy among the ranks. The future focus on Semi auto shooting, they believe, will be more consistent with the current state of American and International Law Enforcement and encourage more shooters.

The TPC or three- gun will continue to gain prominence at this event and may even blossom into additional fast paced shooting events including handguns, rifles and shot guns.

I have waited to say anything about these proposals until I met again with
the Director to discuss these issues. I met with Glen Hoyer yesterday and
he affirmed these changes.

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Al Culbertson
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Re: Nationals- Not confirmed

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June 16 2015, 3:08 PM 

This appears to be sad but true JB. PPC Shooters, current and retired, need to voice our opposition to these changes. I am posting an email response from former NRA Director Tom Gaines regarding this issue:

Jerry and ALL

It will take your sincere comments and observations and those of MANY,* MANY PPC shooters, past and present, and NPSC attendees past and present to speak out and make your voices known.

You must marshal your voices, in writing, NATIONWIDE ASAP.

Build an EMAIL list of those willing to make an effort.

Expel the timid, the hand wringers, the excuse makers, and the unwilling. Get on, get off or get out of the way.

This endeavor encompasses the sharpshooter to the High Master to the National Champions, past and present.

Specifically I recommend a huge number of comments, like yours,

be sent to : Wayne La Pierre Exec. Vice-President

Millie Hallow, Exec. Asst. to Wayne LaPierre

Alan Cors NRA President

Pete Brownell NRA 1st Vice Pres.

Richard Childress NRA 2nd Vice Pres.


Each and every Member of the Board of Directors--They all have email and home or business addresses. Snail Mail is still very effective.

The alternative is to sit on your hands, do nothing and watch the destruction of the NPSC and PPC matches nation wide as we know it.

Keep it polite but assertively professional.

Tom Gaines, Asst. Chief US Border Patrol, ret

PPC competitor since 1961*

Perhaps someone here who is good at composing the necessary form letter that we can edit as we see fit, will do so, so that we can get our voices heard.

Al Culbertson

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June 16 2015, 6:56 PM 

From your post this seems to be factual and is evident of the gradual degeneration and demise of PPC and the NPSC as it was and we knew it to be, that drew competitors from everywhere. Unfortunately it is in the same realm of what this country has degraded into with political agendas and special interests calling the shots. Unless there is the mass willing to say enough is enough and stand in unity, it will continue on the fatal decline that it is headed. How many that read these posts or see what is happening are willing to do something like Tom suggested. I began PPC and the Nationals in Bloomington Indiana and have seen it go from an enjoyable, positive training tool with extensive participation with new people all the time to the almost extinct discipline it has evolved into. What a shame.
I hate to say it, the N.R.A. has become a money oriented corporation rather then the organization I joined back in 1959 with its agenda geared more for shooting sports and training programs geared to everyone's ability to participate no matter their status. Maybe in my old age I have become cynical in my philosophy and outlook, but from those I talk to, not alone. Politics and financial goals has definitely altered their behavior.
This move to New Mexico no matter what anyone says cant change my mind, that it sealed the fate of PPC and the NSPC. So they intend to keep it there and alter the program that will drive even more away from this competition with seemly uncaring blindness. Oh well.
Every year it gets worse, and this not just me that sees this. Of course the economy and the total lack of backing and support from so many of the departments due to their own financial limitations from the politicians that control the budgets, including many of the police chiefs themselves that answer to the politicos, especially if they want to hold their position.
I know there are those that will say I am all wrong and full of it, but this is the way I see it and saw it happening gradually over a period of time like Tom said "should have marshaled our voices" long time ago before there is no reversing.
This is just my opinion of course and hope I didn't insult anyone.

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June 16 2015, 10:59 PM 

The following is additional info from a friend that supports what is going to happen.

I talked to Castro this morning. He said that the single 1500 and having the distinguished matches for non-distinguished shooters only "is" going to happen. As far as the phasing revolvers out of PPC, his words were, "there are a lot of things that get discussed that don't often come to fruition."

If they do decide to phase out the revolvers, prob wont happen right away, but from all indications this appears like a goal on their behalf sooner or later.

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(Login tm1955)

Need mailing and email address for NRA Board of Directors

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June 17 2015, 11:33 AM 

I hope someone out there can help some of us that are not computer literate. I only have email addresses for Glen Hoyer: ghoyer@nrahq.org and Marc Lipp: mlipp@nrahq.org. Does someone have email and physical mailing address for the board of directors? I just tried to find them on the NRA website and can not find a listing of who the board members are at all. I know the Director and other officers of the NRA can be reached by mailing a letter to the NRA headquarters. But how do we contact our elected board members individually who hopefully if they hear from enough of us will put the pressure on Glen Hoyer and Marc Lipp to not take away anything from the Nationals.

I have a question. Glen Hoyer is reportedly saying that competitors are complaining about the length of the Nationals. I have attended the Nationals for the past 7 years. I have never heard of anyone complaining of the length of the Nationals. For the last three years I have attended the "competitors meeting" on Tuesday night hosted by Glen Hoyer and Marc Lipp. I know I am hard of hearing but I swear I have never heard of anyone complaining about how long the Nationals were. In fact, when the NRA tried to cut the Nationals short last year by having the team matches scored by using the open class scores, enough complaints were received that the fired team matches were added back in. So complaining does help to some extent. Hopefully the cometitors that complained about not firing the team matches will be just as vocal about these proposed changes so we all can enjoy shooting all these different firearms that we have acquired over the years.

I will say this, and I know Marc Lipp looks at this forum because he has posted to this forum before. For several years I have provided information to Marc Lipp about Atlanta Arms and Ammo offering to provide certificates for ammunition as prizes at the Nationals. Last year I again asked Marc about contacting Mr. Wisner at Atlanta Arms and Ammo. Marc Lipp assured me again that he would "work" on this, and stressed how busy he is. Well, the Nationals are two months away and it will be interesting to see if there are any certificates from Atlanta Arms and Ammo. I was always taught that you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. When a company like Atlanta Arms and Ammo offers to provide certificates for ammunition a lot of us "department un-funded" shooters would give our right arm for, I would think that the NRA would jump on it!

My last thought. I do hear from a contingent of people of how the Nationals have gone down hill since moving to Albuquerque. How attendence would go up if the Nationals were moved to say Memphis or back to Jackson. I don't hear what if anything is being done to try to either accomplish this or if anything at all is even being worked on by anyone. Glen Hoyer and Marc Lipp do say at the competitors meeting that no other agency has stepped up to the plate and offers the NRA what the City of Albuquerque has for facilities and the help to run the Nationals. Is there another agency or a combination of agencies out there that can match or beat what Albuquerque offers to start hosting the Nationals?

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June 17 2015, 7:01 PM 

This is pretty funny or really sad , I posted (or attempted to post ) a topic on this forum last night, but it didnt go through.
Yesterday I went to the NRA LE Competitions page to look for info on the NPSC. The dates were there and a phone number to call for in. However if you punched up the TACTICAL Match there was all the info , dates ,events,entry info ,ammo etc.

GEE ! , I thought what message are you putting out here.

Well here we go again,it seem like the second year that NPSC moved to New Mexico it ha been nothing but a big "bait and switch".
Remember when we used to get a nice booklet telling you about the event and matches with prizes listed and all the info you could want. Then suddenly no book or info and when you got to New Mexico BLAM, OH !!!! we changed afew things heres the NEW award schedule and it being done because we are tired of the same people ( who work hard ,invest the most time, money,effort) of winning everything so we changed it up and now it will be better because more people can win a gun and that will fix everything.
OH additionally the match is going to be administered terribly and so on and so forth, you know the rest. In this case it wasnt so much about the prizes as how it was done.

Complaints fell on deaf ears so it just has gotten worse from there.EVERY year changes and not for the betterment of our sport.

THE NPSC is too long , I agree.But dont shorten it by cutting out the main events or team championship ,like you wanted to do last year.
Look at all the stand around time ,standing on line,etc, not because the equipment is down, but because someone in the tower has no idea whats going on.Last year we stood on line so many times for 20-30 minutes after last call it was terrible.
It only show that no one cares about the competitors. Come on. How can you enjoy a trip when you are on the range from 0800 to 1700 or later.
If they want to shorten the match, get rid of the additional junk they have added, there is no need for a Stock auto team match,or production class anything. If you want, do like the Bianchi Cup add a production class to the open event,that way if someone wanted to experience shooting they could do that. BUT really are the National Championship the place to worry about getting new shooters.
That should be accomplished during the PPC season at local matches. The NPSC should be the icing on the cake.

GET RID OF THE PARASITE TACTICAL MATCH, do you really think people drive all the way to NM to shoot a 1 day,tactical match.
AND if you think they will FINE, SCHEDULE IT ANOTHER TIME/DATE. A couple years ago one of the Match Directors from APD actually told me that most of the prizes ,from sponsors, were donated for his Tactical Match. REALLY !!! talk about the tail wagging the dog. I would love to hear what he told sponsors when he was asking for donations , IM SURE he never mentioned the National Police Shooting Championships.

The LE committee has been lucky the last couple years and Bob Vadaz has won everything, so it hasnt made a difference, BUT can anyone tell me how the CHAMPION is chosen.
Two years ago the NRA had (2) Women Champions, some articles listed one champion and others listed another. KINDA confusing.

I know Marc Lipp reads this sometimes because I've seen him post here. I wish someone in the LE Competition group would have the guts to openly post on the NRA LE website the current changes they are proposing.or are forcing on us, prior to the match, and at least give some sort of explanation. For most purposes cutting our sport in half isnt going to HELP anything so dont try to say that, people who just started shooting and now can basically throw one gun (they spent money for) away isnt going to help anything.

We have gotten 8-10 new shooters to start shooting over the last 4-5 years,these folks like the difficulty of PPC and the fundamentals it drives home. It has nothing to do with winning guns or being able to shoot duty type guns. There are tons of local matches where the prize tables are way better and the competition way less than NPSC. WITHOUT all the cost/ time associated with the NPSC trip. No one comes JUST to win a gun,or guns, its a nice add on , BUT we come for the competition and to prove your one of the best, or the best,LE shooter or team. Several years ago at NM I was the top municipal shooter is one of the open events, When I went to get my award, I was given 8th or 10th HM. When I asked for an explanation the woman told me 8th HM was a better prize than 1st Municipal. See, the people working there just dont get it. I didnt know you could even WIN 8th place anything.

Dont ruin our sport to try to promote another.The NRA will never be able to compete with the awards given at the various 3 gun matches around the country.None of our 3 gun shooters want to go to NM and we have a team of about 30 shooters. We try to get them to go every year but they dont feel its worth it.

IM old now and not very good shooting PPC anymore, so it really doesnt concern ME that much ( bullseye here I come)HA! , but Im sorry for the younger guys I got involved in this sport, to have it constantly changed and reworked every year. How did it last from 1962- 2005 without someone being concerned if someone changed the front/ rear sight on their Distinguished semi auto, from factory. Hey how did AT custom and Springfield make the first distinguished guns anyway.. I wish the new shooters could have experienced PPC in its earlier days . How come hurricanes in Mississippi were more fun than clear days in NM.
I dont expect anything we do as shooters to change the events happening, BUT I , and my teammates will gladly participate in any effort to keep things from gettin worse.PLEASE keep us posted here with any additional info/efforts. Thanks,
Bob Barnes,Capt. LAPD Pistol Team

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(Login REB55)


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June 17 2015, 7:21 PM 

Just to clarify something, The NPSC itself is not too long, 4 days 5 if you count sunday.However most people come for the regional and NPSC, so if you cut out the Tactical Match,put the regional back to friday/saturday you could shorten the overall trip, for most, by a day. Also the other suggestions,would shorten the time spent daily at the range and give competitors a little more time to relax and enjoy each day. Thats what I meant in my suggestions , Thanks Bob

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June 17 2015, 11:59 PM 

Bob Barnes your comments are spot on much more to come on this, get involved post here and write or email NRA often and encourage others to do the same. Interesting how this info has leaked out rather than being available on the NPSC info site. With only a few weeks till Nationals when would we have found out about these changes if it weren't for (WATERGATE)THE FOX HAS ENTERED THE HENHOUSE. For me these Championships have been a huge source of Honor and accomplishment and I just checked and a revolver still fits my hands just as well as my semi autos do. I enjoy shooting both equally and don't appreciate anyone telling me shooting a revolver is irrelevant as a part of these championships.This has become a Corporation who's employees no longer matter and management has no investment in the considerable capital outlay dedication mental and physical involved in competing at this level.How about we tell the three gun shooters or the Camp Perry shooters that they need to choose only one gun in their Championships because someone has decided they know what you really want and what's best for you! Sadly this seems to be another slight on PPC and Law Enforcement. Jerry Eason

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Unregistered Member
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Re: Need mailing and email address for NRA Board of Directors

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July 22 2015, 2:57 AM 

Email inbound.


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Tony Miller
(Login tm1955)

Response from Marc Lipp

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June 18 2015, 11:01 AM 

Good morning everyone. Here is a response I received this morning from Marc Lipp reference an email I sent him about the changes to the Nationals. I assume he is going to let Mr. Hoyer respond to the changes to the Nationals. This is his response to my inquiring why the Nationals can't be moved if it would attract more shooters and cut down on their (the NRA's) expense of travel and putting them on. If you don't have their email addresses, here it is: Mlipp@nrahq.org

Good Morning Tony,

I wanted to let you know I received and appreciate your comments and requests about upcoming changes to NPSC by the NRA Law Enforcement Assistance Committee and that Glen Hoyer will be sending you a response.

I did however want to let you know some information concerning the location of NPSC. The operation costs is almost no deferent wherever in the county we host the Championships. In fact it may be lower in Albuquerque based on the lower cost of the area and expenses absorbed by the City of Albuquerque.

The deciding factor concerning where NPSC is held relates to; a municipality or private sector group has to want to host NPSC and they must have; a 102 point 50 yard turning target pistol range; 25 point 50 yard police range suitable for the Shotgun Championship; six action range bays; two large vendor halls; tournament offices; permanent storage areas for the NRA; provide, at no charge, all local range and local law enforcement staff needed for the Championships, and maintain the facility at no charge to the NRA. When Mississippi was no longer a viable location several sites were visited with none being able to accommodate NPSC until Albuquerque was found and to date Albuquerque remains the only such facility and agency in the United States. Since an agency would have to spend several million dollars to develop what they would need to host NPSC, given today’s economic climate I doubt we will have other options for a few years at least.

Again Tony, thanks for sending your e-mail and thanks for sending it directly so we see it.


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Tony Miller
(Login tm1955)

Re: Nationals- Not confirmed

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June 18 2015, 4:58 PM 

Here is Glen Hoyer's response to my email about the Nationals.

Mr. Miller, or Tony, if I may.

Thank you very much for contacting me directly with your concerns. There can be a lot of information and misinformation being passed around and I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

To address first the reduction of the length of the NPSC. For many years we have heard from competitors that it was difficult to get the time off to attend the NPSC due to the overall length of time needed. If you attend the Regional Match immediately before the Championships you would typically arrive on Tuesday so you can practice on Wednesday, then shoot the Regional on Thursday and Friday. On Saturday and Sunday you would either shoot a Tactical Police Competition and/or attend one of the armorer schools and then the Sunday PPC practice.

You would then compete in the NPSC and if you shot the Team match you were there through Thursday. Now allow for a one, or even two day, drive and you have now been gone for 8-10 days. For each day you are away you are spending money on food, hotel, etc. Very few departments are supporting competitive shooting so the burden of time off and expense is on the competitor.

We have seen a significant drop in attendance at the NPSC since 2012. In 2012 we had a total participation of 590 competitors. Total participation in 2013 dropped to 507 and in 2014 it dropped to 411. I personally spoke to many competitors and the reasons they said other competitors could not come was due to the expense and availability of ammunition and the overall expense of travel (hotel, food, travel, etc.). Clearly our poor economy plays into this.

The future of NRA Law Enforcement Competitive Shooting depends entirely on the new shooters coming into the sport. NRA has invested a lot of time and money to bring in new shooters through the promotion and use of the Stock Semi-automatic pistol. This effort has been extremely successful as the number one entered match for the past 7 years has been the Stock Semi-automatic match.

New shooters not only have a large expense to have an “Open Class Revolver” built, but it is very hard to find a gunsmith who will build one. In the 70’s & 80’s there were 7-8 gunsmiths or shops who built 1500 revolvers, now I know of one, maybe two.

The dates of the 2015 NPSC were posted on our web site in Februaryhttp://npsc.nra.org/ along with our new host hotel information.

If you attended the Competitors Meeting at the last NPSC you know we asked for suggestions to reduce the length of the NPSC. Firing only one 1500 match was suggested at the meeting by several competitors and major Regional Tournament Match Directors and taken up by the Law Enforcement Assistance Committee.

The Law Enforcement Assistance Committee, debated, voted and approved the following:

-The reduction, by one day, the length of the National Police Shooting Championships. The NPSC will conclude at the end of the banquet on Wednesday night. Team Matches will be fired Monday-Wednesday. This will hopefully increase the participation in the Team Matches; Allow more people to attend the NPSC in general by reducing their total time and expense (food, hotel, ammunition, etc.) to attend.

-The phasing out of revolvers in competition over the next 5 years, with the exception of the Off-Duty Match. Revolvers are not common place in law enforcement, except for off-duty carry. Additionally, this reduces the number of firearms needed to participate in the matches and will encourage new shooters to participate, since they will not have to purchase revolvers. For the next four years the Distinguished Revolver Match will still be held during NPSC so shooters who attend NPSC can have the opportunity to earn additional Award Points at NPSC. Competitors can still earn Award Points at approved Tournaments conducting Distinguished Matches.

-The firing of only one 1500 Open Class Division Match. The competitor will choose to shoot either an Open Class Semi-Automatic Pistol or Open Class Revolver in the Open Class Championship Match with National Champions being named in each Firearm Division. This will open up part of the schedule to allow the Team Matches to be fired Monday-Wednesday, as well as, the starting point to phase out the revolver matches (except for the Off-Duty Match).

This was not a staff decision, but a decision by the Law Enforcement Assistance Committee. Additionally, contracts have been signed back in December and we could not extend the dates for the NPSC now.

We have several scheduling options for matches for this year, as we begin to phase out the revolver competitions, except for the Off-Duty Match, and make more time for the Team Matches, however, have not finalized them at this time. It should be noted that there is a new rule that states all Team Matches, must be fired matches, so we have to accommodate this.

Last, but not least, is the range. There are very few ranges in the country that can host the NPSC. We need a 100 point turning target range that has 50 yard capabilities, a shotgun range, bays for the Tactical Police Competition, vendor halls and office space. Before we settled on Albuquerque, we looked for any and all options. The City of Albuquerque and the State of New Mexico spent millions of dollars to build the facility up to our needs. No one else is willing to spend that kind of money to bring our event to their area.

I hope this answers your questions, if not please let me know.

Take care. Stay safe

Glen Hoyer, Director
NRA-Law Enforcement Division
11250 Waples Mill Road
Fairfax, Virginia 22030
(703) 267-1631
(703) 267-3834 Fax

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June 18 2015, 7:57 PM 

Dear Mr. Hoyer and Mr.Lipp Thank you for your responses on this forum. Your explanation as to the location for NPSC is one that is very understandable. I was unable to attend the 2014 NPSC due to health issues so I wasn't at the competitors meeting.I have to wonder what the mindset is of competitors who complain about the length of time it takes to shoot all the events at NPSC. My first NPSC was 1978 in Jackson Mississippi as I recall it was over a four day period, I have competed in nearly every NPSC since then and each one was fired over a four day period. It seems very easy to cut down the days off work or the expense of the event by not shooting the Tactical or Regional matches prior to the National event. The Tactical event although a great training opportunity and a lot of fun to shoot should not be a part of these Championships.I'm curious as to the number of NPSC competitors that also shoot the Tactical event. Perhaps I'm misinformed but are these shooters LE or are any of them factory sponsored non LE shooters? I'm unfamiliar with Tactical rules. I'm pretty sure that shortening Nationals by a day or eliminating Revolvers will not increase participation . If you are interested in the decrease in participation, pole the shooters past and present like AL Culbertson and Clay Tippet and you may have you answer. Jerry Eason

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June 18 2015, 11:57 PM 

Hey Jerry and other shooters.

Well what can you say. Mr Hoyer and Mr Lipp are as practiced voodoo practicioners as our politicians. There havent been 500 competitors at the NPSC in well over 5-6 years. Look at Distinguished match results or others it averages mid 350- 250 maybe a few more here or there up or down since it moved to Albuquerque. Im looking at the results pages for the actual matches.
So they must be adding the New Mexico Challenge new shooters or something to get those statistics. And last year there were about 20-30 more shooters for the Stock auto than the Distinguished revolver,( my guess would be local officers) big whoop.
2-3 gunsmiths to build PPC revolvers, really look on the net I found 7 in about 20 seconds. And I know 6 locally.
Gonna keep the off duty revolver because thats still in use , well that shows he is in touch. Hardly anyone carries a 2" revolver anywhere for anything in these day of small 380/9mm autos and more important no one carries the type of off duty revolver the match is shot with, a 2 1/2" SIX shot revolver for a back up or much of anything else unless your an old guy like me maybe.

But it is amazing to me that most of the young new shooters I know, love shooting the revolver. Tom Luna 1490 at NPSC and Sean Foote' 2nd overall open 3000 match last year, have never carried a revolver as a primary duty weapon,almost to a man the new shooters we have love shooting the revolver its FUN.

PPC shooting has never been realistic type firearms training for law enforcement. Maybe in the days when we had to shoot the 7 yard line from the hip but that was a while ago.
What it is, is probably the best training for shooting fundamentals for law enforcement ever created. left hand /right hand /standing/sitting/ kneeling/ prone/barricade. Then watch the sights, press the trigger,control your breathing , keep focused if you have a malfunction.
Then when an officer gets into a shooting situation as things go to superspeed at least enough of the basic fundamentals remain
that they end the situation successfully.
Modern officers get plenty of situational, force on force,rapid fire close range shooting. What they dont get is any refresher for the basic fundamentals. WHY ???? Because its HARD. Thats why we have 10-12 guys try PPC for 1-2 matches and go off to something else, its hard. But the young officers that stay like it for that reason and because they see the results, versus other types of competition.
Now the NRA thinks that changing, having more short yardage matches/ team events/ stock team/production/production team and dumping the revolver will increase the amount of new shooters , well maybe for a couple matches but not for long, because they are not successful, they leave and go to IDPA/IPSC where its a different type of shooting. We know because we have gone through it for years to get new shooters.
I also think, maybe Im wrong but the loss of revolver events will make alot of older shooters/ shooters that argue, fight, and love this sport, quit. Then when the numbers really go down, the change to the much more lucrative 3 gun match type shooting will occur. First starting with Law Enforcement but after a couple years it will be opened up to civilians and now supposedly the cash will really start rolling in,from corporations, more than competition, which is the main objective. Just my belief, but Im old and grumpy and I watch the X-Files.
As far as shortening the NPSC , well, you dont have to go to the practice day for the regional, we used to not have one.Do away with the Tactical Match and get rid of all the production stuff, its redundant, same results as the other matches.Hey, then you wont need bays and 1000 yard rifle range, or whatever to host the NPSC.
DO I believe any of this will make a difference to the Folks at the NRA , AAAHHHHH------- NO !
But its fun to talk and get it off our chest, Take Care Bob

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June 19 2015, 1:18 PM 

Mr. Hoyer-Mr. Lipp, all due respects here is my 2 cents(nickel in todays economy). Everything Bob posted pretty much hits the nail right on the head. I couldn't agree more with it, and there are a lot of competitors would agree also with his observations and comments on what is going on. If you cant impress um with actions and results then dazzle um with BS.
Matches too long, then don't shoot the regional, or the practice like Bob suggests. Eliminate the tactical and stock auto. Shoot the 1500 open revolver and auto. Shoot the service revolver and service auto, and shotgun( while handgun matches are being fired(sound familiar-shades of Jackson). Keep the Distinguished Revolver/Auto and team matches. The prestige of getting that distinguished medal always came to the forefront in this competition. Don't make it so you have to shoot "everything" to win something. Give the little guy and new shooter a shot(no pun intended) at winning something and go back to class and category places gauged by number of competitors. Let the entry fees reflect only those disciplines they want to compete in.

Give everyone an incentive to come back. Not only was the competition so important but the comradery was too. The award dinners and banquets with the drawings that everyone looked forward to. I know money is tight and can only do so much nowadays.

When you moved this revered competition and started incorporating changes elected by a select few that I am sure had their own agendas, from Jackson to Albuquerque right away you saw a drop in entrants-duh, was this a clue. Then a gradual decline on a consistent basis.

No other areas that could or would furnish what Albuquerque would? I don't enough about this to argue the point, but Jackson was doing a pretty good job for a long time and even with the decline still had a better turnout then what is happening now. From what I hear from some of the competitors even with the heat and humidity say still better than where it is now. What happened with Memphis? The more centrally located the more people would consider coming. I hear Las Vegas another consideration, and any of you "older" guys that shot the 4 Queens regionals knows the conditions out there. Have to say it was a first class operation and pulled almost as much as the Nationals do today.

Yes, economy, lack of support from the departments, change in firearms from revolvers to semi autos and introduction of the patrol rifle. Yes these are critical and important tools, but let the departments maintain and train for tactics in their use. Like Bob said the Nationals was geared from the very "beginning" for basics and fundamentals of marksmanship not spray and pray techniques.

I started in Bloomington, then Pearl,Jackson,Des Moines,and back to Jackson. What great times. If it works don't fix it.

I work at an academy and this is what we try to teach, basics and fundamentals including the revolver, so as Bob so well described, they have something to fall back on when the excretion hits the oscillating blades. Even when we move them back to the 25 yd line the pucker factor kicks in gear, let alone the 50 yard line. I know vast majority deadly encounters take place up close and personal, but shot placement still enters the picture even up close in my opinion. Jim Cirillo had and opinion on this too. If they can hit something at a distance, they hit up close. When they get to shoot up close from the 7 yard line and get away with flinching, jerking, grabbing the trigger and still hit "something" at this distance they are all of suddenly having fun. Once they move back it becomes a chore,that takes work, hard work, and many of the new LE recruits have other agendas outside our training. Some may not touch a gun for 6 mos. after graduating and when they do go for interviews for a job and have to go to the range to qual., forgot everything we try to instill and maybe loose out.

Anyway, I feel better now after my little rant. Maybe I have turned into an old grump too, but that is the way it goes. Again, just an opinion,and didn't want to insult anyone on purpose.
Stay safe out there

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