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Why no WA1500 in the US??

January 18 2018 at 11:43 AM
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Robert  (Login rminut)

 
Can anybody explain why the WA1500 is not in the U.S. There are only NRA governed PPC matches and they rarely allow non-LEO shooters. Cannot get a classification or Distinguished, so why even bother.

Thanks for any insight.

 
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Andrew
(Login spEKTre)

Re: Why no WA1500 in the US??

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January 18 2018, 6:38 PM 

Matches fall away from what I have seen as people get old with no younger shooters coming through other types of matches take over. Action Pistol or 1920 as it was known here in Australia seems to be going through a resurgence in my state after falling away with only 2 clubs holding opens. Now a third and 4th club are opening up their ranges to opens which is exciting for that match, running a mover seems to be this biggest hurdle. WA1500 has this problem that you need 150+ bullets to complete the match which for some shooters is getting expensive so we started to shoot the 60 shot version to try and attract more participants.

We have this 48 shot match that has this attraction to shooters and we can't open up enough ranges to get all the shooters through it on a Saturday, its a case of what the shooters wants the shooters get I guess.

 
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kcken
(Login kcken)

Re: Why no WA1500 in the US??

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January 23 2018, 1:55 PM 

The Pioneer Gun Club has been shooting NRA sanctioned CIVILIAN PPC 1500 matches for the past 2 years. They are not LE matches, but LE are certainly welcomed to participate. We use the same rules as LEAD - well, except for the eligibility requirements. NRA sanctions these matches through the Action Pistol division.

We shoot a 1500, non-sanctioned Distinguished gun and non-sanctioned Duty gun match at each event. We average 10-15 shooters at each event.

So, folks, there are opportunities for Civilians to get an NRA classification card for PPC.

 
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JB
(Login x-cop)

No WA1500

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January 23 2018, 2:36 PM 

You are doing better than us in STL, Ken. Interest of "new" people in LE has gone down the toilet unfortunately. But, hope springs eternal.LOL

 
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Tony
(Login tonyk1960)

No WA1500 in the US

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January 24 2018, 1:02 AM 

Not a hard answer Ken, the US isn't a member of the World Association 1500, so therefore not entitled to participate in or hold matches.
AUS
AUT
BEL
CAN
CZE
GER
GIB
GB
HUN
IRE
ITA
JER
MAL
NAM
NIR
NOR
RSA
ROU
RUS
SIN
SWE

in the early '90's the then president of Pistol Australia asked me to investigate matches that we service pistol shooters could participate and compete in eventually as a National team. Action Pistol had just started in Aus and he was looking for a match where service shooters could compete with our current pistols /revolvers with no additional purchase of scopes etc. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon early, but it soon turned into a specialised match, as they all do, PPC included. So the service shooters soon drifted back to their match and the Action shooters specialised in theirs.
At that time WA as it stands today was not in existence but shot under a german style of match (BDMP) in Europe. The NRA had locked out civilians for some time as PPC was only, as it still is, available to LE personnel only, I cannot shoot in the NRA National PPC championships as I am not LE, easy as....

You might also ask, when was the last time the NRA PPC championships was held outside the US, but I can shoot WA1500 throughout the world, we have had the World Championships held in Perth, Western Australia.

So, some 10 years later after some negotiations, Pistol Australia became a member of WA1500 and the rest is history. Yes, the WA does share a common thread in the rule book, but is free to adopt any new rules of the NRA in whole or part, and to modify or adjust them to according to the requirements of national laws.

Ultimately shooters and administrators are their own worst enemy, countries that lock out competitive shooters because "it's ours and we won't share" is doomed for demise, as JB says "hope springs eternal"

cheers

 
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Robert
(Login rminut)

Re: Why no WA1500 in the US??

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January 24 2018, 10:26 AM 

Ken,
Thanks for the reply. do you use the support posts for your matches? Can you send me a match bulletin so that I can see how you wrote it.

I find it interesting with the popularity of tactical matches and training that certain groups hold so dear the LEO only rules in PPC here in the US. I suppose they have their reasons. Everybody in my area has moved over to IDPA or other run and gun events, even LEO's. I just think it would breath in a nice bit of fresh air to the sport to allow civilians to become distinguished.

 
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kcken
(Login kcken)

Re: Why no WA1500 in the US??

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January 24 2018, 1:56 PM 

If you can send me your email I will send the match bulletin.

By "support posts" do you mean the posts used for the barricades on the 25 and 50 yard lines?

 
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Robert
(Login rminut)

Re: Why no WA1500 in the US??

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January 24 2018, 3:32 PM 

Ken,
yes, the barricades. does your range have the slots in the ground for them.

Where I am looking to start at does not have the ability to put stuff in the ground. I would have to build something to have the barricade free standing.

I was able to track down a match bulletin for NRA Action/Civilian PPC.

Thanks.

 
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Unregistered Member
(Login kcken)

Re: Why no WA1500 in the US??

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January 25 2018, 3:04 PM 

We do not have slots in the ground. Our barricades (2x6's) are part of the roof support structure at the 50 yard line. We have to move the target frames when shooting at the 3 -7-25 yard distances. Our 25 and 50 yard target lines have turning targets - which are not needed for approved matches.

Good luck getting something started up there. Wish you were closer - another place for a civilians to shoot PPC. ken

 
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JB
(Login x-cop)

Simple do it ur self

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January 25 2018, 9:04 PM 

If yu go on line, there are several suggestions using pvc for making these barricade frames. Inexpensive, lightweight and easy to make.

 
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Robert
(Login rminut)

Re: Simple do it ur self

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January 26 2018, 11:46 AM 

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into those. I had seen some made from rebar that a 4x4 was inserted into. If the rangemaster will pay for the materials I will look into building some that are portable to move during the match.

 
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JB
(Login x-cop)

Simple do it ur self

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January 26 2018, 1:10 PM 

They will not be as stable as something in ground and/or supported but work in a pinch.

 
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Jim C
(Login jamesrchapman)

Re: Simple do it ur self

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February 2 2018, 8:42 PM 

Yes to the NRA Action Pistol Civilian 1500.
also, Michigan Police Combat Pistol Association is open to civilians
and each year has a separate Championship 1500 for LEO and Civilian.

http://www.mpcpa.org/index.html

 
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JB
(Login x-cop)

No WA1500

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February 3 2018, 12:23 PM 

We tried opening our matches to civilians due to lack of LE interest, with same poor results. We had 2-3 come out(from Boeing that shot PPC). They shot 2-3 matches and never showed up again. Their scores were not very high and I think their egos got hurt? Also, they saw some of the competitors with the tricked out guns and thought they couldn't compete, even though the matches are geared to stock and service type guns and back only to the 25 yd line. We tried to help and explain not to expect high scores from get go and tried to help as much as possible, to no avail never came back. We tried spreading word that civilians (with firearms experience)were welcome to come out. Nothing.
Ken states 10-15 shooters his events, we would be happy to get that. With the poor turnout of civilians we went back to LE/armed security only. With the new breed of LE coming on the scene, cant get them to come out and participate and they carry a firearm in their job. Some don't even like to get out and qualify once a year.Some do not and will not practice and just barely qual. for their depts.
The running and gunning type competition at some of the private ranges, has stepped in somewhat, where the distance is down to 15 yards and you can spray and pray. PPC is geared to accuracy from 7 yds back to 50yds and many cringe when you say 50yds. So we offer a choice to 25 yds only with stock and service type guns. This is for LE and armed security(that still carry wheel guns).
We are fortunate enough to have access to a nice range with turning targets and good facilities and still cannot generate any interest. One of the main reasons of not coming out, I don't have the "time"! Once a month for an hour or so and they don't have the time. I understand with working and conflict of schedules, but with a large area like the St. Louis Metro area and all the dept's that are here, still cannot get a turnout. We are trying to keep it alive, but the fat lady is about to sing I am afraid.

 
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Andrew
(Login spEKTre)

Re: No WA1500

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February 3 2018, 6:30 PM 

Yup, I can attest to the cringing at 50 yard shooting by many shooters. The other issue is the 150+ round count, lots of people see that as an expense they don't want so they stick to the service 90 shot matches and other shorter easier matches.

 
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Unregistered Member
(Login jamesrchapman)

Re: No WA1500

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February 3 2018, 10:51 PM 

Good point!
Interesting side note. Taylor Gun Club in Michigan has an indoor shoot every January that pulls in over 500 (FIVE HUNDRED!!) competitors from all walks of life.

They have extremely excellent sponsorship, giving away guns, cash and merchandise!

but, it's 50'...and a 60 round match.

 
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JB
(Login x-cop)

No WA1500

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February 4 2018, 2:30 PM 

Jim, there is your "key", awards and sponsorship. The Nationals and all N.R.A regionals have degenerated to no sponsorship or decent awards. Guns as awards have pretty much disappeared. From some of the feedback, awards at the Nationals have become a joke, except for top shooters. The little guy comes and spends entry fees, lodging, ammo, food, and time it takes and walks away with nothing anymore. Maybe the honor and pride of participation in this distinguishing competition is good enough for some who still come, but for so many not enough. Even the class awards(have been told)have diminished. The door prizes and great banquets are gone. Yep times have changed, for the worse unfortunately.
I still go to a Memphis Regional(46 years) because of the hospitality and good people(not for awards) and they try their best to see that everyone walks away with something. They treat you like they are really glad to see you. They have the same problems everyone else does, lack of sponsorship that they used to get. They have a strong backing from their chief, who, he himself still competes, but hot enough unfortunately to get the turnouts we used to have, not even close. Sad. Ok off my soap box.

 
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Tony Kent
(Login tonyk1960)

No WA1500 in the US

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February 4 2018, 6:08 PM 

I feel your pain guys, the big competitions are/have slowly killing the sport. There was a time when the little guy could walk away with something, even enough to cover some of the entry fee. Sadly that is gone by the wayside, a handful of primers or a tin of powder if you are really lucky these days for an off gun. I try to work it so the lower grade shooters take the major prizes at our shoot, the big guys have been around long enough and won enough, give the new shooter the incentive, they will hopefully be here in 10 years time after the old shooters have hung their holsters up.

I have a couple of shoots I go too just to support the club, they aren't major events but bust a gut to put on a show. I always donate my prizes back to the club to give out as incentive for those that come in 2nd or 3rd in the lowest grades. I just love the look on their faces when they get called up and go home with a swag of goodies, not knowing where they come from. At least I know they will be back next year.

Unfortunately sponsorship has all but dried up, one of our major gunshots would donate $1000 worth of goodies for our big shoots each time, knowing that he would get return business from the competitors, but a change of owners and that was it.

I suppose we can only hope that sometime in the future shooting will come back into favour, but until then.........

 
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Unregistered Member
(Login kcken)

Re: No WA1500 in the US

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February 12 2018, 2:16 PM 

Hey all, just thought I would pass on the dates for our PPC matches in the Kansas City area. These matches are sanctioned by the NRA as Civilian 1500 PPC matches - they are NOT sanctioned events for LE classifications, etc. However all LE are welcomed. All NRA LEAD PPC rules are followed (except for the eligibility requirements). You do not need to be a member of the NRA or Pioneer Gun Club to participate. In fact, your first match with us is "on the house". COF is a 1500 (with turning targets), a Distinguished Gun match, and a Duty Gun match. Entry fee is $15 for one or all events.

Sanctioned events are: 4/28, 5/26, 6/23, 7/28, 8/25, 9/22, and 10/20/2018

We also have several non-NRA PPC events (same format as above) during the course of the summer.

If interested or want more info, please feel free to contact me at keifers@meritcomputing.com - or, of course, though this forum.

Thanks, ken


 
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