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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 2 2006 at 11:31 PM
barry arnold  (Login ethicsprof)

Since reading Scot Reader's work, I have found myself even more preoccupied with
the backs of my 206's. Tonight while thumbing through nearly 400 different 206's, I noted scores of piedmonts,sweet caporals; several
polar bears;15 or so Old Mill's (no browns);10 or so sovereign's; 10 or so
Tolstoi's; a handful of american beauty's 350,460; and a handful or so of
Cycle's 350 and 460; a handful of Hindu browns; one carolina brights; and
just 2 EPDG's.
Having just a couple of EPDG's surprised me a bit.
Any other folks have this experience?!
I made a conscious effort to get the Hindu's,Beauty's, and Brights.
Not so for the rest.

many thanks for the help

barry


    
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 2, 2006 11:49 PM


 
    
AuthorReply


(Login hotdogmj71)

Bet one of is Lindaman!

June 2 2006, 11:54 PM 

Always have heard the back is not one of the rare ones but I certainly agree with you Barry. They don't get much respect pricewise either though. I only have 1!

 
 


(Login yawie99)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 2 2006, 11:57 PM 

As you know, Perfessor, I'm rather conscious of backs myself and was similarly surprised to find I have just three EPDG's out of my current 179 T206's. The breakdown:

American Beauty - 5
Cycle 350 - 6
Cycle 460 - 1
EPDG - 3
Hindu - 3
Old Mill - 11
Polar Bear - 10
Piedmont 150 - 25
Piedmont 350 - 54
Piedmont 350-460 - 8
Sweet Caporal 150 - 20
Sweet Caporal 350 - 17
Sweet Caporal 350-460 - 8
Sovereign 150 - 5
Sovereign 350 - 1
Tolstoi - 2

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

t206

June 3 2006, 12:18 AM 

MANY thanks.
i wonder what this means about EPDG's.
steve, i notice that you have quite a few of some of the
rarer backs----is it because you made a conscious effort to
get these, and not so much the EPDG's.

even so, i wonder if we need to reevaluate the rarity of
EPDG.
by the way, buddy, Willetts brought an sgc 50---found
it on the sgc website today!!!

best

barry

p.s. you're right Matthew! it is the Lindaman i got from you ages ago!


    
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 3, 2006 12:42 AM
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 3, 2006 12:19 AM


 
 

(Login 823dek)

????

June 3 2006, 12:43 AM 

Iam not really sure if you are asking for some, email if you need a couple of Hof's- Lajoie and Tinker EPDG"S

Leon - I know my reply belongs in the b/s/t ,but I wasnt really selling them, just if he was intersted to email me.

that's all !

 
 


(Premier Login autograf)

Just sold a near set of about 480 or so........

June 3 2006, 1:14 AM 

and had no more than 2-3 EDPG's in it...........

 
 


(Login yawie99)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 1:46 AM 

Whew. Glad things worked out on the Willetts.

Anyway, I think EPDG backs are as difficult as our numbers suggest. However, I guess I haven't been as willing to pay a premium for them as I have for, say, AB or Hindu backs. I might have to change that thinking.

 
 


(Login Burgher)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 6:12 AM 

Not a one out of a collection of 100 or so that includes Tolstoi, Cycle, and Hindu.

 
 

Richard
(Login cdn_collector)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 7:54 AM 

Out of a collection of about 30, which includes 1 brown Hindu, 2 Cycles, a Tolstoi, 3-4 Polar Bears, and a pile of Sweet Caps and Piedmonts, I have one EPDG -- of Vive Lindaman.

For the sake of this "survey" this might skew your numbers a bit, though, as I was actually seeking out the back to get an example for my collection.

Regards,

Richard.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

T206 EPDG survey

June 3 2006, 9:22 AM 

Barry

I will follow up Richard's post with another tough T206 in the 150-only Series
and mine is Carl Lundgren (Cubs) with an EPDG back. It is a rare combination
to find the 10, or so, cards in this set that only exist in the 150 Series with
backs other than the usual Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, or Sovereign ones.

And, I surveyed my 600+ T206's and found only one other EPDG back and it is
the Rucker (portrait). So, here is a sample more consistent with yours.

The remaining tougher backs (BroadLeaf, Carolina Brights, Drum, Hindu, Lenox,
and Uzit) in my current collection outnumber the EPDG. But, that's because
I make an extra effort to acquire them: whereas, I do not regarding the EPDG.

Barry, thanx for bringing up this subject, as I always thought the EPDG backs
do not get their due respect in the T206 set.

T-Rex Ted

 
 


(Login sabrjay)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 9:44 AM 

Do I sense a spike the peices of EPDG backs

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.


    
This message has been edited by sabrjay on Jun 3, 2006 9:44 AM


 
 


(Login jacklitsch)

How many?

June 3 2006, 9:55 AM 

One (1) out of 263. Murray (cap) SGC 40


    
This message has been edited by jacklitsch on Jun 3, 2006 9:58 AM


 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 12:05 PM 

Out of my 520 or so I have 4. I did not go out of my way to buy any, but I know when I made an effort buy them I they commanded a small premium. I always thought they were underrated on the toughness list. Scott Reader has they the most definitive data that is not skewed by collecting habits.

There was an earlier thread about whetther this board can alter the prices realized, well a thread like this will definately make the prices for EPDG go up.

Lee

 
 

(Login timn1)

the secret is out

June 3 2006, 12:16 PM 

I've always thought EPDG were a lot tougher also-- in my near-set of 518, I have 3. I tried to get one of each back, but otherwise I neither sought out not avoided unusual backs.

Full back breakdown:

Drum 0
Uzit 0
Lenox 1
Carolina Bright 1
Broadleaf 1
Hindu (red) 1
American Beauty 1
Hindu (brown) 2
EPDG 3
Cycle 6
Sovereign 6
Tolstoi 7
Polar Bear 14
Old Mill 21 (18 are Southern Leaguers)
Sweet Cap 191
Piedmont 263


 
 


(Login ullmandds)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 12:40 PM 

like most of you...i have not really sought out or avoided this back...i have 1 for my backs type collection out of 100 or so t206's. it's a rudolph, toronto.

pete in mn

 
 
Tom Botticelli
(Login Baseballcollecitbles)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 1:09 PM 

Barry great question.

Over the last several years I have made a concerted efftort to pick up as many difficult backs as possible including EPDG backs (Out of about 500 I have: 15 EPDG, 17 Tolstoi, 103 Hindu's, 52 AB, 69 Cycles, 18 CB, 16 BL's), and I have found that they have been twice as difficult to collect as the AB or Hindu, but with that being said people tend to sell the more visible backs. Personally I think this back deserves a higher place on the difficulty list, but perhaps some people have been hoarding them. Hopefully this thread does not increase the value, so I can continue to collect them at a reasonable price. Just my two cents.

Tom

 
 

(Login ty_cobb)

EPDGs

June 3 2006, 1:26 PM 

I have an EPDG Ty Cobb red portrait, and Bob Rhoades
right arm out. I was surprised that Ted Zanidakis mentioned
he has a Lundgren Cubs - I've never seen a 150 series
shortprint with an El Principe De Gales back and I've
been collecting T206 since 1980.
Would like to know if any other collectors have the difficult 9 shortprints with EPDG backs listed below.
Browne(Chi),Burch (Bat),Donlin (Fielding),Evers (Blue),Lundgren (Chi),Pattee,Pelty,Reulbach (Glove),
and Powers.

 
 


(Login trobba)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 1:48 PM 

In my collection of about 250 or so T206's, I have six with an EPDG back. Like many other collectors they have not been a priority, more incidental once I got one of them:

Jennings - both hands
Evers - port
Congalton
Oldring
Bliss
Zimmerman

 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 2:34 PM 


Out of 1746 cards:

American Beauty 194
Broadleaf 22
Carolina Brights 43
Drum 7
ELPD 33
Hindu 125
Lenox 10
Red Hindu 7
Pied 42's 28
Uzit 6
Tolstoi 16
I focus on all of the tough backs, but especially Hindu Slers and Carolina Brights. ELPD and Tolstoi's are not in my focus group, but they are tougher than people think.
Be well Brian






 
 


(Login jimonym)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 3:00 PM 

I'll join the chorus.
Out of my 500 or so T206s, I probably have no more than 6-10 EPDG backs. I'll look through them later and see how many.
But according to my records, so far this year ~115 EPDG backs have been sold on eBay.
Over the same period, there have been about twice that many Old Mills (not counting the Southern Leaguer version) and about four times that many Polar Bears.
On the other hand, there have been (many) fewer Tolstoi, Cycle, American Beauty, and Hindu backs than the EPDGs.
I was surprised when I looked at the totals. I too would have thought they were tougher to find -- tougher than American Beauty anyway.

Brian, I don't know which is more impressive, 125 Hindus or 28 Factory 42s. Wow.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150 Series SP with EPDG backs

June 3 2006, 3:27 PM 

Dan K.

Scot Reader was surprised, too, when I informed him of my Lundgren (Cubs) with
an EPDG back.

Also, I have discussed with Scot that I have never observed Vive Lindaman with
a 350 Subjects back (and since 1981 I have seen thousands of T206 cards). This
card is probably the 10th SP in the 150-only Series.

And, it is interesting that Richard in his above post mentions he has a Lindaman
with an EPDG back.

I acquired my Lundgren (Cubs) with the EPDG back in 1984 when I was working on
my 1st T206 set and was trying to also acquire all the 15 basic Tobacco backs.
And, although I have had quite a number of Lundgren (Cubs) cards since, I have
never seen another with an EPDG back.

So, I have a question for you guys out there on this great Forum....check-out your
Vive Lindaman cards....does anyone have this card with a 350 Subjects back ?

I don't think they exist.....but, I can be wrong.


 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

EPDG

June 3 2006, 3:50 PM 

What a wealth of information.
Many,many thanks.
It does look like the data is pointing to more of a rarity for EPDG than
any of us suspected or expected.
Now i do wonder just what this means?
Have collectors not held it in high regard, for some reason?
Did the folks who bought these initially in the early part of the 20th century put them in their bicycle spokes (or whatever they had) like a lot
of my buddies did with their 'dalrymples' in the late 50's and early 60's.
Were fewer produced than we might have thought?
Are folks just keeping them, because we collectors don't want to pay any sort
of premium for them?
Admittedly, i realize these are no red hindu's---but now we know they are sure no commons either.

by the way, my lindaman is an EPDG, TRex.

also many thanks to the back collectors whose collections were even more
phenomenal than i had anticipated!!!! Congrats

barry


    
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 3, 2006 3:52 PM


 
 

(Login Jeff_Obermeyer)

EPDG

June 3 2006, 3:58 PM 

Of my 400+ T206s I only have 2 EPDG backs - Gandil and Ewing.

Jeff

 
 
Frank Evanov
(Login mantlefan)

EPDG

June 3 2006, 4:16 PM 

Just one out of 100 cards...the Cy Young Bare Hand.

Frank

 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 4:48 PM 

Am I confused on the Lundgren? I have never seen it listed as a 150 only card. Although mine is a Pied 150, I believe that I have sold a Piedmont 350. I still have a scan of the front of the card in a SGC holder, it is dated 1910 Piedmont. From what I can tell SGC lists the 150 series 1909, the 350 series 1910, and the 460 series 1911.

By the way my Lindaman is a HINDU.

Lee

 
 
Scot Reader
(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 5:18 PM 


Lindaman is one of seven 150-only candidates beyond the ones everybody knows about. Others include Doyle (Throwing), Ewing, Lundgren (Chicago), Schulte (Front View) and two others I can't think of right now. I wrote about these seven possible 150-only additions in my manuscript and nobody has yet indictated to me that they have any of them in 350--which makes me think these seven are indeed 150-only. Also, as Ted rightly notes, Lundgren (Chicago) seems to only be possible with Piedmont 150 and EPDG, e.g. not possible with any Sweet Caporal back. Scot

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Lundgren

June 3 2006, 5:27 PM 

Lee B

If you had a Lundgren (Cubs) with a 350 back, you would have a T206 so unique
it would compare with the Plank (Piedmont 150) of which there is only one known.
I have seen where SGC has been inconsistent with their label dates; therefore, I
would caution using this as indication of card's back.

Are you possibly thinking of Lundgren's Kansas City card in the 350 Series ?

All the T206 publications (Heitman, Peavey, and Reader) agree the Lundgren (Cubs)
card exists only in the 150 Series.

Incidently, your Lindaman (Hindu) is really rare card.

 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 5:44 PM 

I use to keep really good records of all my sales on ebay but the last couple of years I have not. maybe it's time to start again. I looked thru about 50 of my SGC T206s and they were as noted earlier, so that is my assumption.

I purchased the Lindaman just cause I needed it and paid about $25, a little premium for the HINDU.

Lee

 
 

(Login caramelcard)

Lundgren

June 3 2006, 6:30 PM 

Hi Guys,

Lee's right. Here's my Lundgren Chicago with a Piedmont 350 back.



By the way, Joe P. (who used to post here) wrote that he has a schulte front view with a 350 back as well. Search for "schulte front view" and you'll find the thread.

Robert


    
This message has been edited by caramelcard on Jun 3, 2006 6:38 PM
This message has been edited by caramelcard on Jun 3, 2006 6:37 PM


 
 

(Login BBT206)

T206 Backs

June 3 2006, 6:49 PM 

Brian,

Your collection of backs is very impressive. Here is my breakdown of backs:

Piedmont 150 - 68
Sovereign 150 - 18
SC 150 Fac. 25 - 6
SC 150 Fac. 30 - 11
SC 150 Fac. 649 - 13
American Beauty 350 Frame - 7
American Beauty 350 No Frame - 21
Broadleaf 350 - 2
Cycle 350 - 9
Piedmont 350 - 128
Sovereign 350 - 69
SC 350 Fac. 24 - 9
SC 350 Fac. 30 - 45
American Beauty 460 - 2
Cycle 460 - 4
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 25 - 17
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 42 - 1
Sovereign 460 - 17
SC 350-460 Fac. 25 - 1
SC 350-460 Fac. 30 - 5
SC 350-460 Fac. 42 - 1
SC 350-460 Fac. 42 OP - 6
Carolina Brights - 1
EPDG - 13
Hindu - 1
Lenox - 1
Old Mill - 8
Old Mill Southern - 35
Polar Bear - 12
Tolstoi - 9

 
 
Anonymous
(Login obcbobd)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 6:56 PM 

about 450 T206, 1 EPDG - Donovan port.

 
 


(Login RayPiskadlo)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 8:39 PM 

My back breakdown:

144 cards...

67 Piedmont
46 Sweet Caporal
10 Polar Bear
6 Old Mill
3 Tolstoi
3 Sovereign
3 American Beauty
1 EPDG: Steinfeldt (Batting), Cubbies
1 Cycle
1 Hindu
1 Carolina Brights
1 Broadleaf
1 Lenox

I don't search out backs I already own, so I'm sure I've passed on a bunch of Cycle and EPDG.

 
 


(Login T206Collector)

EPDG

June 3 2006, 9:25 PM 

Of the 250 or so SGC graded T206 cards I own, three of them are EPDG. I have never put any effort into acquiring a card because of its back, except in two cases -- where I picked up a Hindu Joss Portrait and a nice Cycle Back. Otherwise, I have only been interested in fronts. I may have a couple more in my 270 or so ungraded T206 cards...

 
 


(Login cfc1909)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 9:38 PM 

I have over 500 T206 and 22 with EPDG backs. HOFers and commons. A couple low grade examples in GAI holders were auctioned off on ebay just a day or so ago.

 
 


(Login bkasel)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 9:52 PM 

I have about 30 T206's (90% of which are Portrait HOF'ers)

Out of that I have 2 EPDG (Breshanan and Griffith)

I didn't think they were that difficult of back, especially since I picked both of them up for under $80.

Images of both are at the web link listed below.

Great topic!

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

 
 
Anonymous
(Login Back2Final4)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 10:27 PM 

I have 1 EPDG. It has Cobb signed on the back. I doubt it is authentic, but does anyone know what Cobb's signature looks like?

 
 

Scott T
(Login scottopotamus)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 3 2006, 10:57 PM 

Of 478 different T206's, I have a whopping three EPDG's!

Ed Karger
Moose McCormick
Gabby Street (catching)

Scott

 
 

(Login 18colt)

my EPDG . . .

June 4 2006, 12:25 AM 

Out of 510 T-206s, I have 9 EPDG backs (Bresnahan batting, Doughtery fielding, Herzog (NY Nat'l), Jennings yelling, Leach portrait, McAleese, Titus, Weimer, Willetts pitching). That's under 2% of my collection (roughly 1.76%).

My Lindaman and Lundgren Chicago are both Piedmont 150.

My back breakdown:

Piedmont 230 (one is 350-460 fact. 42)
Sweet Cap 138
Sovereign 28
Old Mill 28 (incl SLers)
Polar Bear 23
Tolstoi 16
Amer. Beauty 11
Cycle 10
EPDG 9
Hindu 7 (incl SLers, no red hindus)
Carolina Brights 3
Broadleaf 3
Drum 2 (Konetchy fielding low ball, Pfeister pitching)
Lenox 1 (Marquard pitching)
Uzit 1 (Leach fielding)

I made an effort to collect at least one of each back type. I've bought most of my mid-level back types at common prices (or small premium, say a buck or two in most cases - I'm a low grade collector).

Mike (18colt)

PS: This is not meant to hijack the thread, but speaking of Tolstoi, would anyone know how rare a Tolstoi reverse is in the T-218 set (I know, not baseball, but pre-war)? Thanks.


 
 

(Login KLSDAD)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 4 2006, 11:41 AM 

I have 5 EPDG out of a collection of 649 unique front/back T206. Most were aquired by trade or in lots......... I'd guess that I've bought fewer than a dozen single cards. As a result I'm less weighted in HOF and SL than normal.

My Lundgren-Chicago is a P350.

 
 

(Login ty_cobb)

EPDGs

June 4 2006, 3:44 PM 

From the information above I think its safe to say
Ludgren Chi is not a 150 series only card. That gets
me back to my thoughts that EPDG is a 350 series back.
The other eight 150 series only cards most likely cannot
have the EPDG or Old Mill backs.

 
 


(Login jcmtiger)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 4 2006, 4:26 PM 

Backtofinal4, send me a scan of the cobb signature on the back of your card. I have a handwritten letter and a bank check I can compare the signature to. email MILFORD97@AOL.COM

joe

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Distribution of my T206 backs (600+ cds)

June 4 2006, 5:49 PM 

Here's how my current 600+ cards breakdown as a function of their backs:

DRUM -- (Moeller)
Red HINDU -- (Donlin-bat)
UZIT -- (Schaefer-Wash, Wiltse-cap)
BROAD LEAF -- (Grimshaw, Malarkey, McGinley)
CAROLINA BRIGHTS -- (Clymer)
LENOX -- (Chance-Yellow)
HINDU -- (Donovan-Port, SL = Breitenstein, Guiheen, Hooker, Howard, LaFitte)
PIEDMONT 460/42 -- (Dougherty-arm up, Jordan-batting)
CYCLE 460 -- (Jennings-dance, Murray-cap)
CYCLE 350 -- (Matthewson-dk cap, O'Brien, LaPorte, Downey-fldg)
AM BEAUTY 460 -- (Devore, Leach-cap, Wheat)
AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 -- (Overall-yel sky, Quillen)
El PRINCIPE de GALES -- (Lundgren-Cubs, Rucker-port)
TOLSTOI -- (Barger, Needham)
SWEET CAPORAL 460/25 -- (Bell-fol thru, Murphy-bat, O'Leary-hds knees)
OLD MILL (So Lge) -- (28 cards)
OLD MILL (asst.) -- (7 cards)
POLAR BEAR -- (Demmitt-St Louis, O'Hara-St Louis, Chase-trophy, Theilman)
SOVEREIGN 460 -- (12 cards)
SOVEREIGN 350 -- (14 cards)
SOVEREIGN 150 -- (HORIZ - Mullin, Pattee & Powell; Keeler-port)
SWEET CAPORAL - (104 cards)

The following comprise my partially complete PIEDMONT-only set.

PIEDMONT 460 --- ( 48 cards)
PIEDMONT 350 --- (203 cards)
PIEDMONT 150 --- (153 cards)



    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 4, 2006 8:07 PM


 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

EPDG

June 4 2006, 6:00 PM 

great collection, trex!
Dan K., the thinking about the EPDG being 350 only is very interesting.
please run through the arguments for me.

best,

barry

 
 


(Login ockday)

re:T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 4 2006, 7:27 PM 

Out of about 600 t206's, I only have 3 EPDG..Flanagan, Lumley and Spade.
Lindaman and Lundgren Chi are both Piedmont 150
Alan

 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 4 2006, 7:42 PM 


Hi Barry,
Many of us T206 "Nuts" believe that EPDG and Old Mill's were not distributed in the first series, but shortly thereafter. To date I have never seen any of the 9 "150 series only" cards with an Old Mill or EPDG back. Most show up with Piedmont backs, and most, if not all have been seen with Sovereign, Hindu, and Sweet Cap backs. Hope that helps Brian

 
 

(Login ethicsprof)

epdg

June 4 2006, 8:35 PM 

many thanks, brian.
do you think this later than the 150's 'grand opening' explains the rarity of
the EPDG?
any explanation for why it has gotten so little
'acclaim' for its rarity?
obviously, it's no lenox or uzit but it sure is rarer than we thought.
thanks for the help, brian.
by the way, i heard you were a tarhill.
even though i've been a floridian for many, many years, i was born in N.C.
and went to Davidson College, so tarhill is in my blood---as well as these
206's.

best

barry

 
 

(Login ty_cobb)

EPDGs

June 4 2006, 8:56 PM 

For accuracy my list of the nine 150 series shortprints
should have read;
Browne(Chi),M. Brown (Cubs), Burch (Bat),Donlin (Fielding),
Evers (Blue),Pattee,Pelty,Powers, Reulbach (Glove).

I've corresponded with collectors who have tried to
do all nine with all the back variations. They cannot
find EPDG or Old Mill, it was reasoned they do not
exist in 150 series. The first brands were Piedmont
Sweet Cap, Sovereign, and Hindu.

I've emailed Bill Heitmann author of the T206 Monster,
some time ago.
He did not confirm the existence of the 9 with EPDG or
Old Mill backs. As I recall, when he checked, his were
Hindu backs.





 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 4 2006, 9:01 PM 

BRIAN W

I was really surprised to hear of a Lundgren (Cubs) with a P350 back. I have
hoarded several of these cards since the early '80s (about a dozen of them).
I have only seen this card with a 150 Subjects back (usually P150) and the
El Principe de Gales one that I have had for over 20 years.

Now, the other player that I have never seen other than a "150" is Vive
Lindaman. And, at least two posters in this Thread have EPDG Lindaman backs
and one an even tougher HINDU back.

You have seen many, many T206's and I ask you.....have you ever seen a "350"
Lindaman ?

Heitman, Peavey and Reader all document that EPDG and HINDU backs were in
the 150-Series. And, I agree with you and Scot that OLD MILL (asst.) backs
were not printed on the original 150-Series cards.

In fact, Scot Reader suggests that the following could also be 150-only cards....

Ames (front)....Doyle (throw)....Ewing....Tom Jones (St. Louis)....Lindaman....
Lundgren (Cubs)....Schulte (Cubs).

Ok, guys check-out your T206's and let's see if we can confirm that these cards
are indeed 150-only....or, do any of you have them with "350" backs ?

I will start....my Ames, Doyle, Ewing, Jones and my 2 - Lindamans have P150
backs. All my Lundgrens have P150 backs, except the one EPDG back. And, I
have 5 - Schulte cards, 4 are P150 and 1 is a SC150.


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 4, 2006 10:56 PM


 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg

June 5 2006, 1:37 AM 

hi trex.

this stuff is fascinating!

all mine are 150's except my Lindaman is EPDG.

i'm eager to hear from the rest of the crowd.

best,

herbivore barry

 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 3:03 AM 

Ames, Doyle, Ewing, Schulte, & Lundgren Pied 150.

I also have Ewing EPDG and a Lindaman Hindu.

I will add the Jones as soon as I can find it.

Lee

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 5 2006, 8:58 AM 

Thanx Lee for the inputs.

Come on guys, we need more inputs....check-out your "magnificent" T206 cards
and let's get some meaningful data to the above question ? ?

If a silly BARRY (Bonds) thread can generate 300+ responses on this Forum,
then why can't we get at least 100+ responses to this BARRY Arnold Thread ?

After all, this is meaningful stuff to us "obsessive" T206 collectors.

So far we have.....

Player.....150....350....EPDG....HINDU

Ames.......16............................2

Doyle.......16............................2

Ewing.......15.................3.........1

Jones.......16.................1..........3

Lindaman..16.................3.........5

Lundgren...18.......1........4.........0

Schulte.....19.................0.........2

Totals......116.......1.......11........15


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 6, 2006 10:27 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 6, 2006 1:34 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 6, 2006 1:26 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 5, 2006 8:44 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 5, 2006 8:32 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 5, 2006 1:14 PM


 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 10:09 AM 


Hi Ted,
The kids wore me out at the pool yesterday, and I'm slammed at work this morning, but I will post as much as I can tonight.
Be well Brian


PS I need more free time.........

 
 


(Login RayPiskadlo)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 10:52 AM 

In my collection, Lindaman, Ewing, Doyle (throwing), and Lundgren (Cubs)... all Piedmont or Sweet Cap 150.

 
 

(Login Stomper1)

EPDG

June 5 2006, 11:05 AM 

My TOm Jones (ST Louis) is EPDG, one of 6 EPDG in my collection of 550+ total cards (the others: Magee with Bat, Hallman, Ganley, Davidson & Burchell). Both my Lundgren Chicago and Lindaman are Piedmont 150.

 
 


(Login cfc1909)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 12:15 PM 

In my collection

Ames&Doyle are Hindu
Ewing,Jones and Lindaman are SC 150
Lungren is Piedmont 150
Schulte 2-Pied and SC 150

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 5 2006, 1:24 PM 

Thanx....Ray....Betty....Jim

Your data has been tabulated. its nice to see more EPDG and HINDU backs on
these cards.

And, so far no additional "350 Subjects" backs.

Keep the data rollng guys.....there are many of you with formidable T206
collections on this Forum.......let's hear from you ?

 
 


(Premier Login leonl)
Forum Owner

my few

June 5 2006, 1:37 PM 

heck, not sure what ya'll are doing but here's my few types of backs from t206's....if there's more info you need just ask and I will get it this evening....right now I am working (I left the prices I paid....and have acquired them over the last 5-8 yrs)..nothing special


T206 Old Mill Coles fr 30
T206 Polar Bear Knight vg 30
T206 Amer.Beauty Schlei vg 70.
..460 subjects
T206 Amer.Beauty Nichols vg-ex 70.
..350 Subjects
T206 Amer.Beauty Strang vg-ex 70.
..350 Sub.-ornate borders
T206 Sovereign150 Davis gd-vg 28.
T206 SOvereign350 Birmingham vg 27
T206 Sovereign460 Herzog gd+ 30.
T206 Broadleaf350 Moeller-NJ gd-vg 20.
T206 Carolina Br. Mcaleese vg-ex 70
T206 Sweet Cap Home Run Baker SGC 70 175.
..350-460
T206 EPDG Magee vg 20
T206 Cycle-460 Geyer vg 100
T206 Uzit Leach vg-ex 350
T206 Lenox Meyers vg-ex 265.
T206 Hindu-Brown Marquard-hands/hips GD 75.
T206 SweetCap/150 Marquard-hands/hips PSA2 52.
..factory overprint
T206 Pied/350 Wallace-Port. gd-vg 40.
T206 Pied/350 Bender port gd + 20
T206 Pied/350 Willis pr 10
T206 Pied/350 Marquard-Port. GD-VG 75.
T206 Pied/350-460 Marquard GD 75.
..throwing
T206 Sweet Cap Mathewson GD-VG 150.
..350-460 black cap
T206 SweetCap/350 Mordecai Brown/port GD mk 50.
..lt.pencil/back
T206 Tolstoi Burch VG 30.

 
 


(Login rose-hof_selig-sob)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 1:56 PM 

I have a few different backs of HOFers, so perhaps this may help. Look at the bottom of page one and the top of page two.

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Cosbro/Collection/

 
 


(Login jcmtiger)

T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 2:19 PM 

Nothing rare here, but here are my backs.

Bush Old Mill
Cobb Red Piedmont 350
Cobb Green Piedmont 150
Cobb Bat on Piedmont 150
Cobb bat off Piedmont 350-460
Crawford throwing Sovereign 350
Crawford batting Piedmont 350-460
Donovan Portrait Piedmont 150
Donovan Pitching Piedmont 350
Jennings Portrait Piedmont 350
Jennings Yelling right hand Sweet Caporal 350
Jennings both hands Cycle 460
Jones Cycle 350
Killian portrait Piedmont 350
Killian Pitching Piedmont 150
McIntyre Piedmont 350
Moriarty Piedmont 350
Mullen Portrait Piedmont 350
Mullen batting Sweet Caporal 340-460
Mullen Pitching Sovereign 150
O'Leary Portrait Piedmont 350
O'Leary Hands on Knees Piedmont 350
Rossman Sovereign 350
Schaefer Sovereign 150
Schmidt Portrait Sweet Caporal 350
Schmidt Throwing Sweet Caporal 350
Stanage Piedmont 350
Summers Piedmont 350
Willett batting Piedmont 350
Willetts Pitching Sweet Caporal 350

Joe

 
 

ockday
(Login ockday)

found 2 more epdg

June 5 2006, 3:23 PM 

bergen batting
stovall batting


 
 

(Login mets86)

My EPDG,s

June 5 2006, 4:02 PM 

I have the following EPDG,s in my collection , Marquard-hands at waist,Howell hands at waist,Shannon,Tannehill-Washington,Geyer,Stephens,Phillipe. CN

 
 


(Login RayPiskadlo)

a little clarification

June 5 2006, 4:10 PM 

There are two surveys going on it appears...

1. How rare are EPDG Backs?
2. Ted is tabulating a list of backs for the following cards only:

1. Ames (front)
2. Doyle (throw)
3. Ewing
4. Tom Jones (St. Louis)
5. Lindaman
6. Lundgren (Cubs)
7. Schulte (Cubs)


    
This message has been edited by RayPiskadlo on Jun 5, 2006 4:12 PM


 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards....digression

June 5 2006, 4:42 PM 

LEON

Ray correctly described what is happening in this Thread. We have a sub-set
of Barry's original topic and that is what additional T206's are found only as
150 Subjects cards. There are 9 well-documented cards in this category, and
it has been theorized that, perhaps, there are 7 more.

This came up early in this Thread and as a consequence I've started tabulating
inputs on these 7 cards from Forum members (see above Table). The collective
knowledge and T206 collections represented in this Forum is a tremendous
resource for a survey like this.

I think I probably should have initiated a distinct Thread on this subject, but
we all were having a lot of fun....so this is it.

 
 

(Login BBT206)

EPDG backs

June 5 2006, 4:47 PM 

Here are the cards that I have with EPDG backs:

Ball (Cleveland)
Barger
Berger
Clarke (Pittsburg, Portrait)
Delehanty (Washington)
Donovan (Portrait)
Graham (St. Louis)
Kling
Lavender
Murphy (Batting)
Schlafly
Tinker (Portrait)


Here are the backs that Ted is tracking:

Ames (Hands at Chest) Piedmont 150
Doyle (Throwing) Piedmont 150
Ewing Sweet Caporal 150 Fac.649
Jones Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30
Jones Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 649
Lindaman Piedmont 150
Lundgren Chicago Piedmont 150
Schulte Front Piedmont 150


 
 


(Login yawie99)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 4:57 PM 

My Jones is a Sweet Cap 150-Factory 649.

 
 

Hal Lewis
(Login HalleyGator)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 5:07 PM 

I only have one EPDG in my whole collection:


 
 


(Premier Login leonl)
Forum Owner

Ted

June 5 2006, 5:46 PM 

It's all good...don't think we will break 300 posts like the Bonds Steroid thread but this one is much more oriented towards what this board is all about. No need to reply but if you need any other info from my few cards let me know. It's pretty funny though....since I posted them I have had a few private emails about selling or trading some..... On the T206's I am only collecting the backs, for the most part, but that certainly wasn't my intention of posting. Did ya see what I had to pay for my Uzit in vg-ex? It was in the same group I got one of my AWH E222's in....and had to pay $200 for it..in gd-vg....those days are over I think....regards

 
 


(Login jimonym)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 6:28 PM 

Ted,
I've got 2 Lindamans and a Ewing all P150 backs.

And I don't own them, but I believe I've seen Tom Jones with P350 (twice) and EPDG (once) on eBay this year.

Jamie

 
 

(Login joggerdru)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 6:49 PM 

Hi Everybody

I have four EPDG in my T206 collection.
Mullin Horizontal
Campbell
Schlei Catching
Weimer

150 Series
Ames Piedmont SC
Doyle Piedmont SC
Ewing Piedmont (2)
Jones Piedmont Hindu
Lindaman Piedmont
Lundgren Piedmont
Schulte Piedmont



Drew

 
 

(Login Greatwake)
Registered Users

EPDGs

June 5 2006, 7:21 PM 

Hey there...

I've looked through my T206s, there are about 515 of them...

6 are EPDG. And that surprised me, figured there were about a dozen before I saw this thread, and thought there might only be 2 or 3 after reading but before looking. Saw more Cycles than I recalled, and only saw one Hindu, thought I had 3 or 4 of those.

Are you wanting to know backs of other cards? Which ones, and I'll dig through them again.

Frank.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 5 2006, 9:08 PM 

Thanks Steve Y., Bill, J Hull, and Drew for your inputs. They have been
tabulated.

J Hull
I entered the 3 cards you have; but, I did not enter the 3 - Jones' that
you noted seeing on ebay since you did not sound too certain. And, since
there are 4 - Jones in the set, 3 of which are typically 350 backs, I cannot
accept them as valid. So far, I have been tabulating cards that are actually
in personal collections. Please understand this.

The present (9 PM) total is 63 - "150 Subjects" (Piedmont, Sweet Caporal)....
1 - Piedmont 350 (Lundgren)......7 - EPDG......4 - HINDU.

Note....Not one Sovereign 150 has been reported....."very interesting".


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 5, 2006 9:18 PM


 
 

(Login 18colt)

150 only?

June 5 2006, 9:21 PM 

Ted -

I have . . .

Ames and Jones -- SC 150
Doyle and Ewing -- Pied 150

Earlier post of mine mentioned Lundgren and Lindaman (both Pied 150) and my EPDG cards (so don't tabulate again).

Good luck, and thanks for tabulating.

Mike (18colt)

 
 


(Login T206Collector)

EPDG

June 5 2006, 9:48 PM 

I only have three out of 520:

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

(One of the nice things about SGC is I don't have to show both the front and the back -- and the backs all look the same anyway...)

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg

June 5 2006, 11:15 PM 

t rex et al,

couldn't wait to get home to check out things and it's already after 10pm

great work tabulating. it looks like epdg continues to be rarer than we thought and it looks like your cards continue to be 150's!
we still need more of a sampling, don't we?!

your point about the sov. 150 very interesting---

keep it coming! we need you Brian W.

best,

herbivore barry

 
 

Brian E.
(Login warrior1978)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 5 2006, 11:23 PM 

Here's my EPDG...I must admit that I like Hal's better and would gladly trade.



Brian E.

 
 
Ron
(Login RSST206)

T-206 EPDG

June 6 2006, 12:34 AM 

Hi Ted,
Going over my set and I found 6 EPDG.
BARGER
CICOTTE
JIMMY COLLINS
HERZOG
PFEFFER
TANNEHILL
and one that was stolen 10yrs ago a nm white cap mathewson. One of my
nicest t-206's

Ames hands at chest sweet cap 150
Doyle pied 150
ewing pied 150
jones pied 150
lindaman pied 150 and hindu
ludgren pied 150
shulte sweet 150

Hopes this helps alittle.

 
 
Marty
(Login Marty_P)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 1:59 AM 

I have five EDPG
Abbott, Hofman, Lattimore, Leifield and McQuillan


    
This message has been edited by Marty_P on Jun 6, 2006 2:07 AM


 
 


(Login E93)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 2:44 AM 

Been out of town for a few days. Great thread. I have
555 T206s and
7 EPDGs

Like some others, when I was going through piles of t206s when piecing my set together I went out of my way to pick up as many different backs as possible. Whenever I found an EPDG of a card that I did not have in vg/ex or better, I bought bought it (given that the price was reasonable). I don't know if this matters, but my set was mostly pieced together by going through dealer inventories, not ebay.
JimB

 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 2:52 AM 

Dang Ron, I was hoping I had the only Lindaman Hindu.

2 Lundgren 350s mentioned after I noted my SGC one was probably a 350, Chuck & caramelcard

Lee


    
This message has been edited by bowlingshoeguy on Jun 6, 2006 2:56 AM


 
 

Martin Neal
(Login mafoli)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 7:17 AM 

I was surprised to only find two EPDGs in a group of 475 t206s.
The two I have are Bridwell and Chase blue portrait. I just recently sold two graded EPDGs (Tinker and Bresnahan portrait).

150 series

Schulte
Lindaman
Lundgren
Ames
Jones

Doyle (polar bear)

 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

A few quick notes

June 6 2006, 8:02 AM 


Hi Ted,
I'll have more later, but here are my numbers so far:


1. Ames (front)I have a Hindu
2. Doyle (throw)I have a Hindu
3. Ewing I have a Hindu
4. Tom Jones (St. Louis)I have a Hindu
5. Lindaman I have reports of atleast 1 350, but have not seen a scans yet.
6. Lundgren (Cubs) Have seen 3 EPDG's
7. Schulte (Cubs) Joe P is the only one who claims to have a 350.
Have seen 4 Lindman Hindu's including yours Lee, and 2 Schulte Hindu's.


Talk to you soon Brian

 
 

(Login tedzan)

T206 EPDG & 150-only cards

June 6 2006, 8:05 AM 

BARRY A

This Thread is very revealing and I hope Scot Reader is following it.
However, Barry, I have somewhat "hi-jacked" your original intent and I hope
you don't mind. It has become a "Two for One" survey.

Mike T....Ron....Martin N....thank you for your inputs, I will be tabulating
your numbers this AM.

Martin Neal, check your Larry Doyle, it cannot be his "throwing pose"; as there
are no Polar Bear backs in the 150 Series.

JimB and T206Collector....we would appreciate your inputs on these 7 cards of
interest ?

And still.....no SOVEREIGN backs on these "suspicious 7"......this is becoming
very, very interesting and may well lead to a new survey (on a new Thread).

 
 

john/z28jd
(Login z28jd)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 9:02 AM 

Lee,is that the Lundgren you sold to me off that wannabe(cant think of the name of it) ebay site last year for the hurricane relief?

I dont know offhand how many or who i have with EPDG backs but if the thread is still going on the weekend ill chime in.

BTW,am i the only person who's never written down which specific back each card has? I could tell you the brand but ive never noted which series it is,except with Pied 42's. I went probably 3 years figuring i had all the American Beauty backs but when i actually sat down and looked i only had 1 of the 3 versions and had to buy the other 2 right away.I never noted the backs but figured i had enough AB's to at least have one of each

 
 


(Login mafoli)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 9:18 AM 

Ted, thanks for pointing that out. I listed Joe Doyle instead of Larry. The Larry Doyle throwing is a 150 series.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 6 2006, 10:37 AM 

Martin Neal

No problem guy.....and, I do not mean to be "picky".....but, it is important that
you tell me which Tobacco brands your 6 cards are in the 150 Series ?

 
 

(Login drdduet)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 11:24 AM 

Great thread. I'll get on it tonite.

 
 


(Login T206Collector)

Here's my contribution (entered at 10:00 pm on 06/06/06)

June 6 2006, 12:12 PM 

What backs I have for the following seven (7) cards:

Ames (front) - SC 150
Doyle (throw) - P 150
Ewing - SC 150
Tom Jones (St. Louis) - P 150
Lindaman - SC 150
Lundgren (Cubs) - P 150
Schulte (Cubs) - SC 150


    
This message has been edited by T206Collector on Jun 6, 2006 10:07 PM
This message has been edited by T206Collector on Jun 6, 2006 12:17 PM


 
 


(Login trobba)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 12:19 PM 

I think the only one I have on this list is the Doyle, mine is a P150.

 
 


(Login E93)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 1:21 PM 

Ted,
Of the 7 you listed, all of mine are P150s except Schulte (Cubs) is SC 150.
JimB

 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 1:23 PM 

SGC's pop report lists one 1909 Sovereign back for Lindaman and Tom Jones. There appears to be a few 150 onlys with a single Sov 150 back. It is still tough to read the SGC pop reports if the player has multiple poses.

Lee

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only T206 cards

June 6 2006, 1:49 PM 

Thank you Mike T, Ron, Martin N, Brian W and JimB for your inputs.

The total as of 1;30 today is.......

PIEDMONT 150 or SWEET CAPORAL 150 backs = 84

El PRINCIPE de GALES backs = 10

HINDU backs = 14

And, there is one "P350" back which I am beginning to question at this point.
We have examined 108 cards and just 1 - P350 really raises a "flag" in mind.
Sorry, guys but I am very skeptical at this point regarding this one input.

 
 

(Login RayBShotz)

One only

June 6 2006, 1:51 PM 

I found after looking at my 120 or so cards that only one card is EPDG. Thats a PSA 2 Maddox.
RayB

 
 

(Login ethicsprof)

epdg

June 6 2006, 2:54 PM 

keep it going Ted.
great work.
i love the various tributaries opening up---feels like
discoveries! Lee B.'s on to the 150 sovereign issue on
another thread so it looks like tributaries/discoveries
are abounding!!

what a great hobby!

best,

barry

 
 


(Login mafoli)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 3:31 PM 

Ted, I just got back. the brands are:

Schulte - SC150
Lindaman - SC150
Lundgren - P150
Ames - P150
Jones - P150
Doyle - P150

Also, I just recently sold an Ewing with a Sweet Caporal 150 factory 649 back.

 
 

(Login rjacobs3)

EPDG Backs

June 6 2006, 4:56 PM 

Only one about of about 100 cards: Mathewson w/ black cap.

 
 

(Login sgrove31)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 5:03 PM 

Out of my meager collection I have two EPDG backs (Lindaman and Doolin(sic) portrait)

So my contribution is:
Lindaman EPDG
Lundgren (Chc)Pied 150
and Ames (Hands in Front)SC 150


 
 

(Login Greatwake)
Registered Users

those other cards

June 6 2006, 5:57 PM 

These are the backs on the other 7 cards you guys are tracking:


Ames, hands at chest - Piedmont 150 fac 25
Doyle, throwing - Sweet Caporal 150 fac 25
Ewing - Sovereign 150 fac 24
Jones, St Louis - Piedmont 150 fac 25
Lindaman, Boston - Sovereign 150 fac 24
Lundgren, Chicago - Piedmont 150 fac 25
Schulte, Chicago - Piedmont 150 fac 25


Frank W.

 
 

(Login rebelsart)

T206 EPDG

June 6 2006, 6:18 PM 

Nice thread. Here are my T206's for Ted's back surveys:

Ames (chest) SC150, SC150, SC150 (all factory 30)
Doyle (throw) Pied150, Pied150, SC150 factory 30
Ewing P150, SC150 factory 30
Tom Jones P150, SC150, SC150 (both SC are factory 30), Hindu
Lindaman P150, Sov150
Schulte (Cubs) P150, SC150, SC150 (both SC are factory 30)


EPDG:
Bush
Crawford, batting
Donovan, portrait
Jennings, 1 hand
Jennings, 2 hands
Jennings, portrait
Killian, pitching
Mullin, batting
Mullin, throwing
O'Leary, hands on knees
O'Leary, portrait
Schaefer, Detroit
Stanage
Willetts, batting
Brain
McCormick
Wilhelm, batting
Needham
Myers, fielding
Clarke, Cleveland
Criger
Titus

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg

June 6 2006, 6:30 PM 

Art,

i count 22 epdg. a bit more than most.
out of what total?
did you make an effort to collect this particular back.

many thanks for the efforts

best,

barry

 
 

(Login rebelsart)

T206 EPDG

June 6 2006, 7:02 PM 

Barry,
Most of my EPDG backs are in my Detroit collection (14).
The 22 total EPDG backs are out of around 1200 total T206.
Art

 
 

(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 7:17 PM 


Ted:
Just back from a trip. Tomorrow will post some results of my survey data on EPDG and the seven [or six if Lundgren (Chicago) has been confirmed with Piedmont 350] possible 150-only additions.
Scot

 
 


(Login ockday)

150 or 350 series..

June 6 2006, 7:45 PM 

ames p150
doyle p150
ewing p150, sc 150
jones p150, p150
schulte p150

previously mentioned these 2..lindaman and lundgren both p150

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 6 2006, 9:23 PM 

Scot Reader

This survey regarding the 7 (possible) cards at this point is overwhelmingly
in favor of them being "150-only" candidates.

The single exception of one reported "P350" of a Lundgren (Cubs) is raising
doubts in my mind. Perhaps this card was mistaken for Lundgren (KC) which
of course would be a 350 Series card. Statistically speaking, something just
does not jive here. Call me a "skeptic", but until some more "350" cards are
reported in this survey, I have my doubts.

Also, aren't you surprised by the few (3) reported Sovereign 150 cards in this
group ?

Ted Z

 
 
Anonymous
(Login Back2Final4)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 9:41 PM 

Joe,

I will try to get a scan to you. I don't have a scanner or a digital camera, so I'll have to borrow one. Thanks for your help. Back2Final4

 
 

(Login rebelsart)

T206 EPDG

June 6 2006, 9:42 PM 

Ted writes:
"This survey regarding the 7 (possible) cards at this point is overwhelmingly
in favor of them being "150-only" candidates."

There are more than 7 cards that would fit the profile in Ted's survey.

Anybody have/seen a T206 Mullin, throwing (horizontal) with ANY Sweet Cap 350 back? Probably not.

Anybody have/seen a T206 Schaefer, Detroit with ANY Sweet Cap 350 back? Probably not.





 
 

(Login obcbobd)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 10:07 PM 

Ames, hands at chest - Piedmont 150 fac 25
Doyle, throwing - Piedmont 150 fac 25
Jones, St Louis - Piedmont 150 fac 25
Lindaman, Boston - Sovereign 150 fac 25
Schaefer Detroit - SC 150 fac 30

Great thread!

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 6 2006, 10:18 PM 

Art M

Hey guy......I fully agree with you. I am presently working on my 3rd T206
set (3/4 complete) and I know that there are other possible candidates that
fit "150-only" category. However, early in this Thread a comment was made that
certain "150-only cards could not have EPDG backs", so this motivated me to
start this survey (focusing on these particular 7 cards). Anyone else can con-
tinue this on any number of additional T206's suspected of being "150-only".

OK guys....the 10 PM tally......

PIEDMONT 150 & SWEET CAPORAL 150 = 113

SOVEREIGN 150 = 3

El PRINCIPE de GALES = 11

HINDU = 15

 
 

(Login ethicsprof)

epdg---150

June 6 2006, 10:42 PM 

thanks Art.
i had a feeling with that many epdg's you were going to
have the most t206's of the crowd---and with 1200 you're right up there.
we can still contend that epdg is much rarer than we thought.
i see your point about sov. 150's rarity,too, ted; lee b.'s
thread is corroborative.
and with your data on the 150 only folks, it looks like the
backs world is gaining some very interesting clarity.

best,

barry




 
 
Mike Ernst
(Login 62corvette)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 11:12 PM 

Great thread!!!
I have about 580 T206--all collected prior to 1975, with no regard for backs.
There are only 2 EPDG-
Schlei catching and Pfeister seated

Of the seven we're tracking:
Ames--Piedmont 150
L. Doyle throwing--Hindu
Ewing--Piedmont 150
Jones--Piedmont 150
Lindaman--Piedmont 150
Lundgren (3)--all three are Piedmont 150
Schulte--Hindu


 
 

(Login caramelcard)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 11:25 PM 

Ted,
Two lundgren chicago with piedmont 350s have been reported in this thread.
I'd be happy to send mine to you if you'd like to take a closer look. Let me know.

The other cards that I have are all 150s.

Ames (front) - Piedmont 150
Doyle (throw)- Piedmont 150
Ewing - Sweet Cap. 150
Tom Jones (St. Louis) - Sweet Cap. 150
Lindaman - Sweet Cap. 150
Lundgren (Cubs) - Piedmont 350
Schulte (Cubs) - Piedmont 150

With the EPDGs, I have:

Chesbro
Cobb Bat off
Flanagan
Groom
Marquard Hands Down (2)
Jennings Portrait

I've always felt the Jennings Portrait was harder to find than other 150 cards. It also seems to be found with EPDG and Piedmont 150, but I haven't seen the card with other backs that I remember in the 150 series.



    
This message has been edited by caramelcard on Jun 6, 2006 11:32 PM
This message has been edited by caramelcard on Jun 6, 2006 11:29 PM


 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 6 2006, 11:28 PM 

Hi Mike,
I would like to buy or trade for your Schulte Hindu. LMK Thanks Brian


Hi Art,
It's about time you chimed in. LMK when Mullin arrives.

Be well Brian

 
 

(Login tedzan)

EPDG backs within the 150-only group

June 6 2006, 11:34 PM 

Barry A.

You initiated a great Thread with your EPDG question. Great, because it also
stimulated debate as to the validity of EPDG backs on the 150-only cards in the
set. And, I guess my Lundgren (Cubs) EPDG was the "spark" that ignited it.

Back in the early '80s, another Barry (Sloate) clued me in on the "tough" T206
cards when I first started collecting this set. And, it was then when I acquired
this card and I still recall how excited I was to show it to Barry. Well, 22 years
later, I'm excited again since this card was a factor in the tremendous response
to your Thread.

T-Rex Ted

 
 

(Login ethicsprof)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 12:01 AM 

Many,many thanks, ted.
I feel a bit like frank w. when he says he's worn out(on another thread) because i've done nothing much the last days but check and recheck this site.
But it is a great ride!!!
And it's not over---scot reader et al are promising more information.
Keep tabulatin'!

Best,

Barry


 
 

(Login hornsby)

T 206 El Principe Population Survey

June 7 2006, 2:23 AM 

Out of 329 T206's I have 11 that are El Pricipe de Gales.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 7 2006, 9:06 AM 

BRIAN W.

The jury is still out on these 7 possible "150-only" candidates. But, you
must admit that this survey, so far, is indicating that there is a pretty
high probability that at least 6 of them are in this category.

More significantly, it confirms that these cards were available with EPDG
backs. And, if you are still not convinced on these in the survey, then
please consider the early input on this Thread (by Rob) of a Johnny Evers
(port) with an EPDG back. And, there is no doubt that this card is in the
150-only category.

Also, Art M. suggested more cards (Mullin-horiz and Schaefer-Det) and I am
in full agreement with him. Perhaps, we should conduct another survey on
these and possibly a few more.

Schaefer, for example, was traded to Washington in Aug 1909; therefore, the
T206 designers would not have extended his first card into the 350-Series.
And, its interesting that Schaefer re-appears later in the 460-only Series
(with Washington).

 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 12:47 PM 


Hi Ted,
Art and I have been "chatting" and keeping track of rare backs together for quite some time. We both feel there are many cards in all series that are probably not available with all of the "possible" combinations which should be available.
I'm not sure why you think I'm disagreeing with your conclusions, as I agree with most of them. My major concern is that we still don't have a "known" 150 only card with a ELPD or Old Mill back. Evers Blue Sky is the 150 only, not the portrait, which is availabe in both the 150 and 350 series. In fact I have an ELPD Evers Portrait.
I'm enjoying these threads more than anyone on the board, because I study these cards whenever I have any free time.
Art is the reliable source who has listed Lindaman as being seen with a 350 Piedmont back, but he may have made a mistake, or he may not remember. I'm sure he will chime in shortly.
Trying to figure out the patterns of distribution on these cards has been my passion for years and I'm excited so many others are interested in finding out which cards are really "available" with which backs.

Talk to you soon Brian

PS My Mullin comment to Art had nothing to do with the Horizontal in the thread, but an Orange background Portrait I sent him for his Birthday and his Tiger collection.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Enjoying all Subtle Aspects of T206's

June 7 2006, 1:34 PM 

BRIAN W.

You caught me in an error....Evers (Blue sky) is indeed the 150-only card.
I always held the idea that any picture of a Chicago (NL) player with "CUBS"
on their uniform as a 150-only card. And, of course Evers (portrait) depicts
this. Sorry, I got carried away. And, you are right we both think the same
regarding the T206's.

OK....I will agree, until we arrive at a more definitive understanding as to
which additional cards can be classified as "150-only". We haven't seen an
EPDG on the known 11 - "150-only" cards....Geo. Browne....M. Brown(Cubs)....
Burch (bat)....Donlin (fldg)....Evers (blue sky)....Pattee....Pelty (horiz)
Powers....Reulbach (Cubs)....Honus Wagner....Sherry Magie (only with P150).

Incidently, did you ever get a chance to check-out your Magee (port) cards to
see if you have a Piedmont 150 in Vg-Ex (or better) condition for me ?


 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 1:56 PM 


Hi Ted,
I think the 6 possible 150 only cards might be part of a small group of cards that were first released in the 150 series with Piedmont, Sweet Cap, Hindu and Sovereign, and the released again in what I will call the first "assorted" series. I believe this first "assorted series" consisted of Old Mill and ELPD brands and was released shortly after the 150 series and before the initial 350 series release. I believe many of these cards that are "supposed" to be available in the 350 series were either not included at all or they were short printed due to there earlier release in the 150 and assorted series. This would explain the relative scarcity of Lundgren, Mullin, etc in the 350 series.
I did check on the Portrait of Magee and I was mistaken, the only Magee Portrait I have with a Piedmont back is my Magie error, and he's not for sale. Keep the info coming guys. Be well Brian

 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Old Mills

June 7 2006, 2:44 PM 

Here we go again, now that we found there are a few Sovereign 150 in the 150 only cards.

Where are all the OLD MILL 150 series only cards? I have been half heartly trying to get all the diiferent backs for the G.Browne Cubs & have never seen Old Mill or EPDG.

Lee


    
This message has been edited by bowlingshoeguy on Jun 7, 2006 2:54 PM


 
 

(Login tedzan)

150-only cards

June 7 2006, 3:37 PM 

Robert A

I have duly noted the prior posting of a Lundgren (Cubs) with a
P350 back in the Table. It bothers me, however, that the scan of
this card has vanished.
I will add yours to the tabulation when I update the tally this PM.

Can you please show us your Lundgren (front & back) ?

 
 

(Login caramelcard)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 3:53 PM 

Hi Ted,

I'm not sure why the scan disappeared. I didn't remove it.
I will post it again later tonight.

Along with my trading buddy Chuck P. who mentioned he has one as well, I guess that makes two with a piedmont 350 in this thread.

Best regards.

Robert


    
This message has been edited by caramelcard on Jun 7, 2006 3:55 PM


 
 

(Login tedzan)

Updated Tabulation

June 7 2006, 4:16 PM 

As of 4 PM 6/7/06 Tabulation

Note....2 cards have been added as new inputs have been received, they are:

Mullin (horizontal) = 1 (P150)

Schaefer (Detroit) = 2 (P150 & SC150)

PLAYER................150.....350.....EPDG.....HINDU

Ames (hds chest)....19........0.........0..........2

Doyle (fldg)............18........0.........0..........3

Ewing....................17........0.........3..........1

Jones (St Louis)......19........0.........1..........3

Lindaman...............19........0.........3..........5

Lundgren (Cubs)......21........2.........4..........0

Schulte (Cubs)........20.........0........0...........3

Totals..................143.........2.......11.........17

 
 
robert a
(Login caramelcard)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 4:20 PM 

The lindaman ending soonest on ebay supposively has a sovereign 150 caboose, but there is no scan included.

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg---150

June 7 2006, 5:44 PM 

T Rex, great work tabulatin'!

I'm wondering about the sampling.
Looks like around 25 examples per card, with a total of 'round 170.
I'm grateful for the responses from folks but wonder what sort of sample we need to get.
In other words, any 'guesses' out there regarding how many of these particular cards may be out there, so we can envision what the tabulations may actually be saying. I would assume that this
board's collectors hold many, if not most, of the cards. What do you think?


again, a great ride!!

best,

herbivore


    
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 7, 2006 5:46 PM
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 7, 2006 5:45 PM


 
 
Scot Reader
(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 6:18 PM 

From my eBay survey:

1. SUBJECTS CONFIRMED WITH EPDG:

150-only (0.5% of backs seen): M. Brown (Cubs on Shirt)

150/350 (1.1% of backs seen): Beaumont, Bergen (Batting), Bowerman, Bradley (Portrait), Cicotte, F. Clarke (Portrait), F. Clarke (Holding Bat), J.J. Clarke, Criger, G. Davis, Donlin (Seated), Donovan (Portrait), Dooin, Evers (Portrait), Ganley, Gibson, Gilbert, Griffith (Portrait), Herzog (N.Y.), Jennings (Portrait), Karger, Keeler (Portrait), Killian (Pitching), Lajoie (Throwing), Leach (Portrait), Overall (Portrait), Owen, Ritchey, Rucker (Portrait), Schaefer (Detroit), Stovall (Portrait), Tinker (Portrait), Turner, He. Wagner (Bat on Left), Young (Bare Hand)

350-only (1.0% of backs seen): Atz, Barger, Blackburne, Bliss, Bush, Casey, E. Collins, Congalton, Davidson, Demmitt (N.Y.), Dubuc, Jo. Dunn, Easterly, Egan, Fiene (Portrait), Fiene (Throwing), Freeman, B. Graham, Hoblitzell, Hofman, Jackson, Kelley, Lord, Maddox, McCormick, McLean, Nattress, Nichols, Oberlin, Phillippe, Puttman, Rhodes, Schlafly, Stanage

350/460 superprint (1.2% of backs seen): Chance (Port. Yellow), Chase (Port. Blue), Chase (Dark Cap), Cobb (Port. Red), Mathewson (Dark Cap)

350/460 regular print (1.2% of backs seen): Berger, M. Brown (Chicago on Shirt), Doyle (With Bat), Jennings (One Hand), Jennings (Both Hands), Johnson (Pitching), Joss (Pitching), Lajoie (With Bat), Lake (No Ball), H. McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago), Mullin (With Bat), Overall (Hand Face High), Steinfeldt (With Bat), Street (Catching), Tinker (Bat Off), D. White (Pitching), Wilhelm (With Bat), Willis (Throwing)

460-only (0.6% of backs seen): Bell (Follow Through), Bridwell (With Cap), Camnitz (Arms at Side), Chance (Batting), Frill, Gandil, Murray (Portrait)

2. BACKS CONFIRMED ON POTENTIAL 150-ONLY SUBJECT ADDITIONS:

Ames (Hands at Chest): Br. Hindu, P150, SC150/25, SC150/30
Doyle (Throwing): Br. Hindu, P150, Sov150, SC150/30
Ewing: P150, SC150/649
T. Jones: Br. Hindu, P150, SC150/25, SC150/649
Lindaman: Br. Hindu, P150, SC150/25, SC150/30
Lundgren (Chicago): EPDG, P150
Schulte (Front View): P150, Sov150, SC150/30

NOTES:

The EPDG back appears on roughly 1% of T206s.

It seems from earlier posts that Lundgren (Chicago) is a 150/350 series card. It would be great to see scans of any OTHER of the seven potential 150-only subjects identified above with a 350 back so they could be definitively ruled-out as 150-only subjects.

I have never seen any confirmed or potential 150-only subject with an OLD MILL back. It would be great to see scans of any confirmed or potential 150-only subject with OLD MILL--if indeed any exist.

Scot




 
 


(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 7:53 PM 

Hi SCOT,
You need to add the following:
ELPD
150/350:
Bates, Chesbro, Crawford, Delehanty, Hemphill,Johnson Port, Jones st. Louis,Kling, Lindaman, Lumley, Marquard, Mathewson white cap, Mullin hor, Niles, O'Leary, Powell Hor, Scheli cat, Spade, Weimer.

Sorry, heading to CA. in the am and don't have time to finish, but will do so when I retrurn next thursday. Be well Brian


PS I have a Ewing Hindu, and I have seen Hindu's of Schulte and Lundgren.


    
This message has been edited by BRIANKW on Jun 7, 2006 7:55 PM


 
 


(Login cfc1909)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 9:37 PM 

Scot please email me

 
 

(Login RayBShotz)

P150 Only

June 7 2006, 10:12 PM 

Ames, Doyle , and Lindaman all P150's in my collection for the record.
RayB

 
 

(Login drdduet)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 11:11 PM 

EPDG 6 out of 450+ T206's

Cravath
Evans
Joss pitch
Lajoie throw
Konetchy glove near ground
Barbeau


    
This message has been edited by drdduet on Jun 7, 2006 11:12 PM


 
 

Jim Rivera
(Login cfc1909)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 7 2006, 11:48 PM 

Scot,
Add these EPDG to your confirmed list. Can send scans if you need them
1.Bresnahan (bat)
2.Burchell
3.Chesbro
4.J. Collins
5.Evans
6.Kleinow (catch)
7.Krause (portrait)
8.Lattimore
9.Lumley
10.Milligan
11.Shannon
12.Weimer
13.Wiltse (pitch)
all the others I have you have on your list

Ted
Also have a Lindaman with Sovereign 150

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg

June 8 2006, 1:44 AM 

Scot, your ebay survey resulting in your contention that the epdg back appears on roughly 1% of T 206's appears to be in line with the data presented by board members on this
thread. many,many thanks.
the ole epdg turned out surprisingly rare to many of us.

all the best,

barry

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Sufficient Sampling question of Potential 150-only

June 8 2006, 11:21 AM 

Barry A

Your observation is a valid one and I do not understand why we have not
received a larger number of responses. I know of at least a dozen more
Forum members that could contribute....but have not.

As of now, we have 170+ card inputs. If you think about this, it's not really
too bad, and some "statistical genius" would probably tell us that it is quite
a representative sample. Consider this.....professional polls typically sample
just 1000 people and tell us that their poll is representative of a nation
of 300,000 people.....that has always "boggled" my mind.

Barry....I don't know how to increase our sample....other than scanning Ebay
and other sites for more data. Personally, I enjoy the personal responses we
have received on this Thread.

 
 

(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 8 2006, 11:43 AM 


I should note that I have Brashear, Marquard (Hands at Side) and J. White with EPDG in my own collection. None of these three subjects showed up on eBay when I was taking my survey. My guess is that a sufficient sample (maybe 100,000 or so) would reveal most T206 subjects with EPDG--southern leaguers and ultrararities excepted. So Ted, when can we expect you to complete your T206 set minus southern leaguers and ultrararities with EPDG backs? Scot

 
 
sagard
(Login sagard)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 8 2006, 2:23 PM 

I think you can extrapolate the ratios in another way. Take the cards with a tons of submissions to SGC (HOFs) and measure the ratios of EPDG in those. It won't be perfect but a 200-300 card sample of a single player card may have less bias than a sample of a 400 card T206 collection.

I'd take a look at the data myself, but I won't get to it until the weekend.

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg--150

June 8 2006, 2:27 PM 

ted,

i agree. it has been a great time seeing what backs the
board members have as well as seeing how many t206's they
have. i was quite surprised at times. also great fun doing the 'detective' work and
collaborative work.
and learning some new data along the way.
i'm interested in seeing sagard's statistical work,
if he gets a chance.

many thanks,

barry


    
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 8, 2006 2:31 PM


 
 


(Login T206Collector)

EPDG Rarity

June 8 2006, 2:29 PM 

Even if the stats are right, you won't find me thinking EPDG backs are particularly rare. They may not be as easy to find as Polar Bear backs or even Sovereign Backs, but they're much easier to find than most of the other backs that T206 collectors consider to be rare. The fact that I currently own three EPDG through nothing but dumb luck, but in almost ten years of T206 collecting have never owned a Carolina Brights, Broadleaf, Drum, Uzit or Lenox backed card is telling...

 
 

(Login tedzan)

T206 EPDG

June 8 2006, 3:27 PM 

T206Collector
I don't think we are stating that EPDG backs are rare (a relative term).
Barry Arnold started with the proposition that this back is somewhat tougher
than has been previously thought.
And, the data we have received here bears this out. In fact your 3 EPDG cards
out of 520 different cards in your set is very representative of our findings.
And, especially since you are saying the 3 you have acquired are just due to
"dumb luck".

Incidently, would you like to inform us of the backs in your set for our Secondary
survey regarding the 9 potential "150-only" cards. Refer to the above Table for
these players and their identifying variation.

Thanx, Ted

 
 

(Login tedzan)

EPDG

June 8 2006, 10:42 PM 

Scot Reader

I have to complete my "all Piedmont" set first and I still need 114 (P350) cards
to attain the "magic" 518 total. I have sort of hit a "bamboo wall" recently in
trying to acquire the remaining cards (some Stars, Major Leaguers. and mostly
Minor Lgers). Either not available or mainly too, too expensive. I am used to
paying < $40 a common. Nowadays, T206 in the $20-40 price range are a little
too "brutal" for my liking (at least on ebay).

So, I do not think I will be taking you up on starting an "all EPDG" set any
time too soon. I will leave that up to some younger guy to try.

T-Rex Ted

 
 
William Heitman
(Login WHeitman)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 9 2006, 5:37 AM 

It's late and I've just spent a little over an hour on this thread and I've only gotten through June 5. Dan Koochin's posting of 6-4-06 is curious. I do not remember his email. I'm going to go through my notes and lists and post some stuff on this thread.

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg---150

June 9 2006, 1:54 PM 

it will be great to have your contributions, Bill.

all the best,

barry

 
 


(Login T206Collector)

Ted, I provided this...

June 9 2006, 3:45 PM 

...way above, at 12:12 pm on 06/06/06:

What backs I have for the following seven (7) cards:

Ames (front) - SC 150
Doyle (throw) - P 150
Ewing - SC 150
Tom Jones (St. Louis) - P 150
Lindaman - SC 150
Lundgren (Cubs) - P 150
Schulte (Cubs) - SC 150

What other Players would you like me to share?



 
 

(Login tedzan)

T206 EPDG

June 10 2006, 7:29 AM 

T206 Collector

Sorry guy, I had already tabulated your inputs.
Anyhow, if I understand you correctly, you are the perfect collector of T206's
for this survey, because the backs of your 520 cards are incidental to you; and
therefore, represent a truer random distribution than most.

Also, could you check-out the backs your Mullin (horiz.) & Schaefer (Detroit)
and post them......Thanks much.



 
 


(Login T206Collector)

Mullin & Schaefer

June 10 2006, 9:39 AM 

Mullin (horiz.) - P 150
Schaefer (Detroit) - you tell me....



...anyone want to sell me an SGC 40?

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Ewing - Jones - Lindaman - Lundgren

June 10 2006, 10:07 AM 

As of today, there are no reported "350" backs on Ewing....Jones....Lindaman....
and, only two on Lundgren. However, this survey (177 cards to date) does not
in anyway discount possible "350" backs on the above 3 players.

But, let's consider the 4 above players' Major League history......

Ewing (Cinc).....traded from Cinc. to Phila (NL) Jan. 1910

Tom Jones (St Louis).....traded from St Louis to Detroit on Aug 20, 1909

Lindaman (Bost).....MLB career ended in 1909 (pitched in 15 games)

Lundgren (Cubs).....MLB career ended in 1909 (pitched only in 2 games)

The point I'm trying to make is, as these 4 players' MLB careers changed in 1909,
there is a real good probabilty that the T206 designers decided not to extend
3 of them into their subsequent 350 Series (issued in 1910)....The year 1909,
of course, is critical to this debate, since that was the year the 150 Series was
first issued.
And, regarding Lundgren, a "350" back of him I would argue is very, very rare.

Furthermore, all the EPDG backs have only shown up with these 4 players.
Not a single reported EPDG back for Ames....Doyle....Schulte; therefore, at
this point are we to conclude that these three are indeed "150-only" cards ?

And, I arrive at this conclusion since some have said that "150-only" T206
cards and EPDG backs are mutually exclusive.


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 10, 2006 11:50 AM


 
 


(Login scottbrockelman)

7 150 cards

June 10 2006, 12:15 PM 

Ted,

I finally got out my set.

Ames front, P 150
Doyle throwing Sovereign 150
Ewing P 150
Jones SC 150
Lindaman P 150
Lundgren cubs P 150
Schulte cubs SC 150

 
 

(Login ErikV)

T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 1:22 PM 

I only have about 25 T206 cards, mostly HOF'ers. Out of these, two have EPDG backs. They are:

Ed Walsh and Hugh Jennings (portrait).


 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 1:35 PM 

Finally rounded up all of the rest:

Jones, Schaefer & 2 Mullens all SC 150s.

Jones and Schaefer were 2 of the last 10 cards I needed.

Lee

 
 

(Login schoenen)

I have two

June 10 2006, 1:43 PM 

and they did not seem particularly hard for me to track down - although getting the rest of the Philadelphia players -- may be tougher now, in light of this thread

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Updated Tabulation on Potential 150-only T206's

June 10 2006, 3:01 PM 

As of 3 PM....6/10/06

Note....2 players have been added as new inputs have been received, they are:

Mullin (horizontal) = 5 (P150)....1 (EPDG)

Schaefer (Detroit) = 5 (P150 & SC150)

PLAYER................150.....350.....EPDG.....HINDU

Ames (hds chest)....21........0.........0..........2

Doyle (fldg)............20........0.........0..........3

Ewing....................18........0.........3..........2

Jones (St Louis)......21........0.........2..........3

Lindaman...............22........0.........4..........5

Lundgren (Cubs)......22........2.........4..........1

Schulte (Cubs)........21.........0........0...........4

Totals..................155.........2.......14.........20


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 10, 2006 7:43 PM


 
 

(Login ty_cobb)

EPDGs

June 10 2006, 3:20 PM 

I've always used Lew Lipsets' 'Marketing of T206'
as a reference - link below.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_17.html

From an advertising standpoint, only Piedmont, SC
and Sovereign are mentioned in the first printing of T206.
Hindu comes later. My personal speculation is that EPDG
staring issuing late September/early October 1909. By that
time Hindu is issuing 350 series cards. To clarify, I
speculate EPDG is also 'a 350 series issue'. Doesn't
mean EPDG doesn't have 150 series subjects, just means
it was issued after the 'first' 150 series print run.

The '9' 150 series shortprints shouldn't have EPDG backs.

The others you are tabulating card backs for will have EPDG backs, I'm not surprised. Ted, Scott I'm unclear why its necessary to group these in with the other 9 that do not feature EPDG backs.

Ted , Scott
Are you saying EPDG was a 150 series brand issued right
from the start (speculative June /July?)and somehow didn't
issue the '9' shortprints, nor advertise their product. Or are
we agreeing they were issued later, roughly late fall 1909?


 
 

(Login rebelsart)

T206 EPDG etc...

June 10 2006, 3:57 PM 

Ted,
Your latest recap shows a T206 Schaefer, Detroit with Hindu.
Where did this come from? I would be interested in this card for my Detroit collection!
Art

 
 


(Login Orioles1954)

Got this today....

June 10 2006, 5:19 PM 

[IMG][/IMG]

I bought this today at a card show for $45. I have NO idea about rarity or value since I've never bought one before. The dude that sold it to me said he didn't know anything about these boxes, but said it came as part of a t206 collection he bought awhile back. The flip-lid is still there, but the binding is loosely attached. Did I get a good deal?

 
 

(Login joggerdru)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 5:48 PM 

Anybody have/seen a T206 Schaefer, Detroit with ANY Sweet Cap 350 back? Probably not.

No but i have a Piedmont 350 back of Schaefer Det.



Drew

 
 


(Login cfc1909)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 6:58 PM 

Drew

Can you post scans of the front and back?

 
 

(Login Baseballcollecitbles)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 7:01 PM 

Hi Ted,

My cards are:

Ames (Front) P150
Doyle (Fielding) P150
Ewing SC150
Jones Hindu P150
Lindaman Hindu P150
Lundren (Cubs) P150
Schulte (Cubs) P150

ELPD:

Abbott
Blackburne
Brain
Brown (Cubs)
Bresnahan
Cravath
Donlin
Groom
Jennings
Kruger
Leifield
McCormick
Rudolph
Spencer
Young (Bare hand)

Thanks,

Tom





 
 

(Login joggerdru)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 8:00 PM 

Jim
Email sent


Drew

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Schaefer/HINDU error.....corrected

June 10 2006, 8:01 PM 

Art M

Sorry, but I am going to disappoint you.

I went back and checked my notes and I mis-read my handwriting.In my notes I
had "scratched" down Schulte/HINDU and when I was ready to input the new data
it looked like Schaefer (instead of Schulte). It has been corrected on the Table.

T-Rex Ted

 
 

James Feagin
(Login Orioles1954)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 8:25 PM 

Not to be a pest, but does anyone have any info on my box? Is this the actual box that t206's could've gone in? Does anyone know an approximate value?

James

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg---150

June 10 2006, 9:05 PM 

hi tom b.

i note your 15 epdg and am wondering how that fits into your total of t206's.
since i know already you are one of the princes of back collecting, i bet that your percentage of epdg's will be quite a bit higher than the rest of the crowd.
thanks for the help.

and thanks again for the AB and BL I purchased from you yesterday!

best,

barry
P.s.

tom, i knew that you had said something about your total before on this
thread---and i found it (entry 16).
total of about 500.
i was right that you have more epdg's than most (percentage-wise).
thanks for the help.


    
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 10, 2006 9:13 PM


 
 

(Login rebelsart)

T206 EPDG box

June 10 2006, 9:30 PM 

James,
Yes, that is the correct EPDG box type that once held T206 cards. Does this have the factory 17 stamp on the bottom?
The $45 buying price seems like a pretty good deal. Congrats.

 
 

James Feagin
(Login Orioles1954)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 10 2006, 10:10 PM 

Unfortunately, it looks like the tax stamp has been removed. I see the residue of one.....

James

 
 

(Login tedzan)

T206 EPDG & "150-only" Survey

June 11 2006, 3:25 PM 

TOM B

Thanks for listing your info. and it will tabulated along with newly
received data via emails to me by "readers" of our Forum.

I do not refer to people who monitor this Forum ( but for whatever
reasons, choose not to post)......as "lurkers". This term connotes
someone who is "furtive", or "up to no good". I have met quite a few
"readers" of this Forum at the Philly Show; and believe me, they are
very interesting collectors who really enjoy this Forum.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Potential 150-only T206 Survey

June 11 2006, 4:04 PM 

Updated Tabulation

As of 4 PM.....6/11/06

PLAYER................150.....350.....EPDG.....HINDU

Ames (hds chest)....23........0.........0..........2

Doyle (fldg)............22........0.........0..........3

Ewing....................20........0.........3..........2

Jones (St Louis)......22........0.........2..........4

Lindaman...............24........0.........5..........6

Lundgren (Cubs)......24........2.........4..........1

Schulte (Cubs)........25........0.........0..........4

Schaefer (Det).........7.........3.........1..........0

Mullin (horiz)............6..,......2.........1..........0

Totals..................173.........7.......16.........22


Edited to include 3 reported Schaefer cards with PIEDMONT 350 backs.


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 12, 2006 3:21 AM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 12, 2006 1:42 AM


 
 
William Heitman
(Login WHeitman)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 11 2006, 4:56 PM 

Schaefer, Detroit--Piedmont 150, Sovereign 150, Sweet Cap 25 & 30 150, Piedmont 350 and EPDG.

 
 

(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 11 2006, 7:46 PM 


Ted,
I have seen Schaefer (Detroit) and Mullin (Throwing) in 350 in multiple instances. They are definitely not 150-only.
Scot

 
 

Brian Weisner
(Login BRIANKW)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 1:27 AM 


Hi Scot and Bill,
I don't think Art was suggesting that Mullin Hor was a 150 only card, but was asking if anyone had seen a Sweet Cap 350. I have a Piedmont 350, and have seen several , but 0 Sweet Cap 350's. Be well Brian

 
 

(Login tedzan)

Schaefer with PIEDMONT 350 backs

June 12 2006, 3:15 AM 

Scot and Brian

I fully understood Art M's initial question and I wanted to prove (to at least
myself) a pattern that I noticed was emerging. And, that is why I deliberately
added Mullin and Schaefer to round out this survey (even though I was aware of
them being also 350 cards, since I read it in Scot Reader's book). And, sure
enough the pattern that I am alluding to, is that an occasional "350" back will
surface. But, it isn't just any 350 back, but exclusively a PIEDMONT 350 back.

Lundgren and Schaefer have proven this and we could continue this survey to
infinity and I predict that no other "350-type" back (Sw Cap, Sov, etc.) will
be discovered. My theory is that PIEDMONT was always the 1st issued brand.
And when the T206 designers transitioned into the 350 Series (circa 1910),
they quickly realized Lundgren was no longer in the Major Lgs. and Schaefer had
been traded to Washington; therefore, they stopped printing them and only a few
PIEDMONT 350's got into circulation. This is exactly the same "scenerio" that occurred
with the Magie card at the start of the 150-Series (Magie exists only as a P150).

Now, regarding the other 6 cards (Ames, Doyle, Ewing, Jones, Lindaman, & Schulte),
can we extrapolate that they too will eventually surface with PIEDMONT 350 backs
in this survey......I am not too certain about that happening. We have quite a
formidable T206 resource to draw from in this Forum and I would have thought
more 350 backs would be evident by now ? ?

All you T206 guys, let's see your inputs.....we are still far away from "infinity".

T-Rex Ted



 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg--150

June 12 2006, 1:29 PM 

trex,

this PRIMACY OF PIEDMONT theorizing is absolutely fascinating.
seeing the development of t206's from their inception with renewed clarity
(even at the theorizing stage with the beginnings of corroborations) is mesmerizing---at least for us 'nuts', as you say.
great work, Ted et al.

a great ride! and many,many thanks for the e-mail response,Ted!

Barry

 
 
Scot Reader
(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 3:20 PM 

Ted,

I like your "Primacy of Piedmont" theory a lot--but I'm not sure Schaefer (Detroit) exemplifies it. My survey data show one instance of Schaefer (Detroit) with Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 30. This could be a mistake--either a recording error on my part or the result of an ebay seller having scanned the wrong back. But it's there in my data nonetheless.

Here is the list of 150/350 subjects that my survey data show with a Piedmont 350 back but no other 350 back:

Chance (Red), Clarke (Cleveland), Dahlen (Boston), Delahanty (Washington), Durham, Ganley, Herzog (New York), Karger, Kleinow (Batting), Lumley, Matty (Portrait), Mullin (Throwing), Stone and Wiltse (No Cap). (You can add Lundgren (Chicago) to this list based on what we have learned on this thread about his availability with Piedmont 350).

Many, but not all, of these players switched teams during the 1909 season or the off-season that followed. More particularly, at least Dahlen, Delahanty, Durham, Ganley, Herzog, Karger, Kleinow and Lundgren switched teams. (Durham and Lundgren were sent down to the minors).

I'd like to see if anybody has any of the above 14 or 15 subjects with a Sovereign 350 or Sweet Caporal 350 back. It would be great if Chance, Clarke, Lumley, Matty, Stone and Wiltse were confirmed with Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 and the others were not. That would advance your theory a long way in my view.

Scot


    
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:38 PM
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:30 PM
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:28 PM
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:27 PM
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:25 PM
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:25 PM
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:24 PM
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jun 12, 2006 3:23 PM


 
 


(Login bowlingshoeguy)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 4:22 PM 

Of your list Scot,

I have Sweet Cap 350, 30 for Lumley and Herzog, NY.

Lee

 
 

(Login BBT206)

350 backs other than Piedmont

June 12 2006, 4:25 PM 

Scot,

I have some 350 backs other than Piedmont on cards that you just listed. Here is what I have:

Chance Red Sovereign 150
Clarke Cleveland Sovereign 150, SC 150 Fac. 649
Dahlen Boston Piedmont 150
Delehanty Washington El Principe De Gales
Durham Piedmont 150
Ganley SC 150 Fac. 30
Herzog New York SC 350 Fac. 30
Karger Piedmont 150
Kleinow NY Batting Sovereign 350
Lumley SC 350 Fac. 25
Mathewson Portrait Piedmont 150
Mullin Throwing Piedmont 150
Stone Sovereign 150
Wiltse Portrait No Cap Sovereign 350

Bill

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg--150

June 12 2006, 4:28 PM 

my wiltse(no cap) is a Hindu---otherwise, i have 150's. chance red sc150;
clarke cleveland p 150;delehanty washington p150;ganley sc 150; karger p150;
kleinow batting p150; lumley p150;wiltse (no cap) Hindu brown

great research question, Scot.

best,

barry


    
This message has been edited by ethicsprof on Jun 12, 2006 4:35 PM


 
 
Scot Reader
(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 5:45 PM 


Great! So we can scratch Herzog, Kleinow, Lumley and Wiltse from the list before ol' T-rex even gets back on the thread!

 
 
Elliot
(Login pro9)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 6:24 PM 

Sorry for the late reply.
4 EPDG's out of about 440 t206's.

Doyle Fielding--P150
Ewing--P150
Jones (St.Louis)--P150 x 2
Lindeman--P150
Schaefer (det)--Sc150
Mullin (hor)--Sc150

I also have Lumley in a SC350.



    
This message has been edited by pro9 on Jun 12, 2006 6:32 PM
This message has been edited by pro9 on Jun 12, 2006 6:29 PM


 
 

(Login joggerdru)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 6:28 PM 

I'd like to see if anybody has any of the above 14 or 15 subjects with a Sovereign 350 or Sweet Caporal 350 back. It would be great if Chance, Clarke, Lumley, Matty, Stone and Wiltse were confirmed with Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 and the others were not. That would advance your theory a long way in my view.

Hi Scot

I have the following cards
Matty portrait SC 350 Factory 30
Chance red SC 350 Factory 25


Drew

 
 
barry arnold
(Login ethicsprof)

epdg--150

June 12 2006, 6:39 PM 

thanks, elliot

your 4 epdg out of 440 206's falls right in line with our 1% or less figure.

all the best,

barry

 
 

(Login rebelsart)

T206 EPDG....

June 12 2006, 6:53 PM 

Scott,
I have the following cards from your list of 14 150/350 cards with Sweet Caporal, 350 subjects backs:

Chance (Red), Sweet Cap 350, fac. 30
Delahanty (Washington), Sweet Cap 350, fac. 30
Kleinow (Batting), Sweet Cap 350, fac. 25

Art M.

 
 


(Login yawie99)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 7:12 PM 

I've got a Wiltse (No Cap) with an SC 350 back.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150/350 cards

June 12 2006, 9:16 PM 

Scot

I am not sure that players like Dahlen might prove anything, since he
was in a Boston (AL) uniform till 1910.....well within the 350 Series
time frame. So I would expect this first Dahlen card to have the full
complement of Tobacco backs. Is this a fair assumption ?

Anyhow, here are all my backs of the 15 cards you noted......

Chance.......P150..SC150..P350..P350
JJ Clarke.....P150..SC350..EPDG
Dahlen.......P150..P150..SC150
Delehanty...P150..P150
Durham......P150
Ganley.......P150
Herzog.......P150..SC150
Karger........P150
Kleinow......P150..P350
Lumley.......P150..SC350
Matty.........P150..Sov 150..P350
Mullin.........P150..Sov150
Stone.........P150
Wiltse........P150
Lundgren....P150..P150..P150..P150..EPDG


Edited to add 4 more cards (Matty-P350, Kleinow-P350, Clarke-SC350 & EPDG)


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 13, 2006 8:52 AM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 12, 2006 9:20 PM


 
 

(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 12 2006, 10:39 PM 


Ted,
Dahlen left Boston to become the manager of Brooklyn after the 1909 season and before the 1910 season. So I think his example may be relevant to your "Primacy of Piedmont" theory (as the good professor has dubbed it). Looks like many, but not all, of the 14 or 15 have been ruled-out as Piedmont 350 only. Let's do a tally after a day or so more of contributions.
Scot

 
 

(Login caramelcard)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 13 2006, 12:11 AM 

My Dahlen Boston is Hindu

 
 

(Login ty_cobb)

Schulte 350

June 13 2006, 2:29 AM 

I was checking through my notes, one of the forum members
listed a Schulte (front view Cubs) 350 subjects in his T206 collection last year.

Also , does anyone have a scan of the 'rumored'
M. Brown throwing Cubs EPDG? This I have to see to believe...

 
 

(Login tedzan)

150/350 cards

June 13 2006, 6:43 AM 

SCOT R.

I've gone back and referred to all my notes in putting together my 3 sets
of T206's. And, from your list of 14 cards (except Lundgren) I have noted
that Durham and Ganley were tougher to find than most 150 Series cards
in the set.

So, I'll go "out on the limb" and suggest that only these two will conform
to my "Piedmont theory" (as so far Lundgren appears to be one). Let me
clarify....Durham and Ganley can be found with P150, SC150, Sov150 and
Hindu backs. As a 350 Series card, I say they exist only as a Piedmont 350.
And, therefore we can expect these two also with EPDG backs.

Dahlen (Boston) has never been tough to find according to my notes. So, I
I will not go "out on a limb" for him.

And, Scot, I am sure there are some guys out there already searching thru
their T206 cards ready to prove me wrong.....it's a great hobby, especially
when we are talking T206's.

T-Rex Ted

 
 


(Login phlflyer1)

Great thread...

June 13 2006, 8:56 AM 

Sorry that it has taken me so long to add my data but I, like others, enjoy threads and sharing information like this.

Ames - P150
Doyle - P150
Ewing - SC150
Jones - SC150 fact 649 OP
Lindeman - P150
Lundgren - P150
Schulte - P150

Out of a near set (minus the big six) I only have one EPDG card of Overall.

I also have a Wiltse, No Cap, SC350 as others have reported.

Scott

 
 

(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 13 2006, 10:01 AM 


Dan,
Purported Schulte (Front Views) with Sweet Cap 350 have shown up on ebay a couple of times in the last few years. Turns out that each time the seller put up the wrong back scan or improperly described the back--which was 150 in each case. I have heard other rumblings of Schulte with Sweet Cap 350, but never confirmed. I would love to actually SEE one in a PSA or SGC holder to put this issue to rest. Also, it is interesting that I have never heard any rumors of Schulte (Front View) with a Piedmont 350 back--a more common back than the Sweet Cap 350.
Scot

 
 
Aaron Cowan
(Login acowan19)

EPDG and 150 series only cards

June 13 2006, 10:05 AM 

I have 2 EPDG backs of only 24 T206s, although I am a back collector. I also have a Tom Jones with a Hindu back.

Aaron Cowan
acowan19@gmail.com

 
 

(Login tedzan)

New Survey 150/350 cards

June 13 2006, 10:30 AM 

Scot

"350 Subjects" survey on the remaining 6 cards that you have identified....

Player.............P350.......SC350........Sv350......HINDU......EPDG

Dahlen (Bost........0............0..............0.............1............0

Durham...............0............1...............0............0............0

Ganley................1............0..............0.............0............1

Karger.................1............0..............0............0............2

Lundgren (Cubs)....3...........0..............0.............1............4

Mullin (horiz).........2...........0..............0.............0............3

OK guys....let's keep this data rolling.


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 21, 2006 4:01 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 17, 2006 8:08 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 13, 2006 3:50 PM
This message has been edited by tedzan on Jun 13, 2006 10:36 AM


 
 

(Login RayBShotz)

2 cents

June 13 2006, 4:47 PM 

Of the 14-15 additional cards I have only 2 in my collection of 160 or so T-206's.
Karger Piedmont 150
Kleinow Batting piedmont 150

On another note, this thread has crystalized a lot about what I've learned about back rarities in assorted publications, including Scot's.
Thanks guys for rolling out the resources.

This is now my set of choice, after many years of wandering. The intricacies are fascinating, the mystery intriguing, and the fun is endless!

RayB

Always looking for presentable PSA 1,2,3's that I need for my humble set.

 
 

(Login tedzan)

T206's....R....Us

June 13 2006, 7:41 PM 

Ray

Welcome to the club....you are already 30% on your way to completing the set.

Best regards, Ted

 
 
Scot Reader
(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 13 2006, 7:58 PM 


Hi Ted,
Thanks for the spreadsheet. I recently owned and sold a Ganley Piedmont 350. I bought it SPECIFICALLY because it had a 350 back. You can add "1" to Ganley/Piedmont 350.
Thanks,
Scot

 
 

(Login sreader3)

Re: T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

June 13 2006, 7:59 PM 


Ted,
Also recently saw a high-grade PSA example of Karger with Piedmont 350. It was either a PSA 7 or 8.
Scot

 
 


(Login T206Collector)

I've got a Durham SC 350

June 13 2006, 8:23 PM 

Lo and behold, I have some relevant information...
I own a Sweet Caporal 350 backed Durham, so:

Durham - SC 350
Dahlen (Bost.) - SC 150
Ganley - P 150
Karger - SC 150
Lundgren (Cubs) - P 150
Mullin (horiz) - P 150

 
 

(Login 18colt)

350 info to add to tally

June 13 2006, 8:47 PM 

I (like Drew several posts earlier) can confirm the Matty portrait with a SC 350 back (mine is also factory 30).

Mike (18colt)

 
 
barry arnold