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New Wagner Find

July 31 2006 at 3:26 PM

Bobby  (Login Bresdo)

While at the show and waiting to talk to Joe from PSA there was a reporter there doing an interview with him about the Wagner card discovered in Chicago. Also in on the conversation was the owner of the PSA 8 Wagner whose name I don't know. The owners of the newly found Wagner had an expert on paper verify that it is from that era, he supposedly dealt with the dead sea scrolls. And an expert on printing verified the printing on the card was consistent with the time period of the make of the card. They are refusing to send it in to a grading company and it will be auctioned soon by a New York auction house later this year. The reporter says they are expecting to get in the $1mil range for the card un-graded. Joe and the PSA 8 Wagner owner thought they don't stand a chance to even get $10,000 unless it is graded by one of the big 3.

Would you be willing to take a chance on such a card that was only authenticated by an expert on Paper and printing?

 
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Josh Adams
(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 3:31 PM 

Bobby,
I think you know the answer to that question!

Was the owner of the alleged Wagner Harlan Burke? He's a dealer in artificats, and has dealt with old manuscripts. His refusal to send in for a grade sounds like him!

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

 
 
joe brennan
(Login 2dueces)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 3:59 PM 

Wasn't there a couple of guys on e-bay a few years ago or maybe last year that claimed they had everyone and their brother (exept the big 3) look at a Wagner and claimed it was from the right time, printing, blah, blah. But they refused to let go of it to have it graded. I remember it had some racial over tones with the story. Is this the same card and group?

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.
adited for fat fingers


    
This message has been edited by 2dueces on Jul 31, 2006 4:00 PM


 
 
TONY
(Login tonygalo)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 4:00 PM 

Unless your a true hobby '"expert"....anyone buying this card ungraded is taking a great chance & just isn't worth it....

 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 4:22 PM 

...


    
This message has been edited by drc1 on Aug 7, 2006 8:39 PM


 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

wagner

July 31 2006, 4:37 PM 

For someone with even a little hobby experience it would not be very difficult to look at a raw Wagner and know right away whether it was real. You could miss some subtle restoration but there has never been a fake that would fool a hobby veteran completely. That said, no sane person would sell such a significant card without getting it graded. In the same vein, no sane auction house would take a fake Wagner and try to pawn it off as real. The whole story doesn't really make a lot of sense.


    
This message has been edited by barrysloate on Jul 31, 2006 5:20 PM


 
 
Al C.risafulli
(Login Novocent)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 4:51 PM 

Would a major auction house even accept a Wagner on consignment if it wasn't graded? Sounds to me like there's a ton of liability there, and I can't imagine that between that and all the money that would be left on the table, nobody would.

I sure wouldn't.

-Al

 
 
Griffin's
(Login Griffins97)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 5:16 PM 

I would think for that level of card it would be worth while for both the auction house and the grading company to fly someone in to grade it.

 
 
Jim Clarke
(Login husbandoftammy)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 5:34 PM 

I think the NY auction house is taking a HUGE risk on having this one back fire on them. Are they going to sell is "AS IS"? I'm sure anyone that buys this card would make sure that this card would grade or they get their money back. Even though I'm not caught up in the grading scene, there is NO WAY I could place a bid of 500.00 on it without there being a 3rd party grade on it from the Big 3 grading companies. One of these days I have to get all my cards graded including this one....


 
 

Josh K.
(Login jkrasner2)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 5:49 PM 

lol

 
 

Bruce Babcock
(Login uffda51)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 5:58 PM 

I wouldn't bid on this card without the carbon 14 testing results. Speaking of finds, the LA Times yesterday said that there are 700 cards in the T206 set. Interesting.

 
 

Gilbert Maines
(Login ItsOnlyGil)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 6:27 PM 

I fully understand that only the grading companies have the capability to determine if a baseball card is genuine. And the Presedential seal with the blessing of the Pope complimented by the wizardry of Merlin will never suffice.

But come on, how mysterious a black art is this really?

" ... an expert on paper verify that it is from that era, he supposedly dealt with the dead sea scrolls. And an expert on printing verified the printing on the card was consistent with the time period of the make of the card".

Get dr cycleback's book and bcd's magnifier and trust in the wisdom of the ancients.

 
 
bob beyerle
(Login bobbvc)

big 3 grading companies?

July 31 2006, 7:02 PM 

Didn't one of these BIG 3 "lose" someone's T206 Plank and not want to take responsibility for it? Gee, I can't imagine any reason to not have a six or seven figure card graded.

 
 

Jeff Lichtman
(Login calvindog)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 7:05 PM 

Joe, you're correct. The "new" Wagner is a card that was put on ebay last year with about 100 typos in the listing and claiming all sorts of scientific tests which purported to prove its provenance. However, if my memory serves me, the card had been rejected by all of the grading companies (save PRO which was ready to give it an 11-first one ever). I believe some of the articles attendant to this Wagner reported that the owners believed that they were being treated unfairly because they were minorities. I guess I'm sensitive to that claim because we all know that GAI, SGC and PSA are all about denying the black man the chance at a Wagner....

 
 
Scot Reader
(Login sreader3)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 7:11 PM 

DELETE


    
This message has been edited by sreader3 on Jul 31, 2006 7:17 PM


 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 7:38 PM 

.


    
This message has been edited by drc1 on Aug 7, 2006 8:39 PM


 
 
Cobby33
(Login Cobby33)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 7:52 PM 

I remember seeing that jibberish that Jeff references as well.
BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID!

 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 8:20 PM 

There was the Sienfeld where George and Kramer were walking down the a crowded street in New York City, and Kramer started waving a large denomination bills. George grabbed Kramer's arm and said, "Don't wave money around like that. People will be jumping out of windows to get it."

If a collector waves in the press a T206 Wagner that people think is genuine, there will be people jumping out of the windows to buy it or take it on consignment.

The idea of having trouble finding a buyer for a genuine T206 Wagner is silly.


    
This message has been edited by drc1 on Jul 31, 2006 8:27 PM


 
 

BruceBabcock
(Login uffda51)

Re: New Wagner Find

July 31 2006, 8:52 PM 

I remember these guys, too. I think they mean well. They are just uninformed and are hoping against all odds and factual knowledge that they have the real thing. I wish they did, but they don't.

 
 
mark t
(Login Averysaab)

Wagner Card Update....

July 31 2006, 9:37 PM 

I do believe its the same guy who wanted to be in the room when PSA graded it. They refused him entrance, due to the policy, and he decided not to let them grade it. HMMMM , makes me wonder if this guy is a loser who is trying to make money on reprints or state of the art printers that can duplicate a $1,000,000 card in seconds. JUST LET THEM GRADED IT !!!

 
 
 
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