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New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006 at 10:34 AM

James Feagin  (Login Orioles1954)


 
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Bill Stone
(Login ston4100)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 10:38 AM 

This will be fun to watch !!!!!!!

 
 
Dylan
(Login Dylan11)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 10:49 AM 

Some dealer at a convention was asked to appraise it and offered 8,000 for the collection, makes me sick.

 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

ruth

October 20 2006, 11:34 AM 

It's a beautiful photograph, but why is it being called a card? Or am I missing something?

 
 

Hal Lewis
(Login HalleyGator)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 11:57 AM 

4.5" x 6.5" makes it a Cabinet Card size, right?

So I consider it the same as an old team cabinet card, like the 1873 Boston team or the 1894 Orioles. Those are nice.

But then again, team cards like the Fatimas where the players are standing in a group are sometimes not favored too much by collectors.

Just like the Josh Gibson postcard that Rob sold last year...

it is definitely a GREAT "item"... but probably not a true "baseball card" when you compare it to other things in 1914 like Cracker Jack cards, etc.

 
 

joe
(Login jcmtiger)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 11:58 AM 

Barry, probably because a card will garner more money than a photograph in most cases. It sure looks like a photo though.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

 
 

warshawlaw
(Login boxingcardman)

That offer was pretty gross

October 20 2006, 12:00 PM 

$8,000 in 2004 wholesale for a card that at that time was listed in the Standard Catalog at $50,000 in vg (2003 edition) is being a pig. Funny thing is, the story says $8,000 was tempting but not enough to go for it. If the dealer had offered a bit more, perhaps $20,000, he would likely have gotten the card given the psychology of non-collectors. Serves the pig right.

 
 
Joe Tocco
(Login BrightPath)

Hmmm

October 20 2006, 12:35 PM 

He walked into a show, and was offered a lowball price, perhaps by the first dealer he saw near the entrance... I wonder who that dealer was?

 
 
David Smith
(Login ctownboy)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 12:54 PM 

But Joe, you left out it was a "cash" offer....

 
 
Rich Mueller
(Login Boccabella)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 1:06 PM 

I have to share a comment made on another message board.

"The Babe was probably pretty excited about the 'abroad' portion of the schedule until someone told him those were just road trips".

Beautiful!

 
 
Corey R. Shanus
(Login benjulmag)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 4:23 PM 

Calling something a baseball card is obviously the objective from a marketing perspective because a card designation generates a higher price. Therefore it comes as no surprise REA will be anxious to slap a card designation on this Ruth item. However, given the size of the item and that it has a glossy finish, is blank-backed and is of photo paper stock (not cardboard stock) thickness, if this item fits the definition of a card, then I wonder how much is left that fits the definition of a photograph.

 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 4:56 PM 

It looks to me more like a counter display, maybe something that would be visible in a stationery or tobacco store to help sell copies of the Baltimore News. It's a wonderful find and a great new early image of Ruth, but of course it is not a baseball card. However, with the right marketing it will fetch baseball card numbers.

 
 
Robert Lifson
(Login RobertEdwardAuctionsLLC)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 5:03 PM 

Whether the team card is defined as a photo or a card could certainly vary from person to person. Some people may not consider it a card because it is very much like a photo. To me, there is no question that it is a card because it is the size of a card, has advertising, and was produced specifically to advertise The Baltimore News. Now just don’t go bringing up the 1863 Grand Match At Hoboken card.(Only kidding – to me that is a card also, but to some it is only a ticket).

 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

response

October 20 2006, 5:17 PM 

Rob- these days anything that is square and made of paper is a card. Ten years ago this would have been a counter display. Not complaining, just saying that the definition grows broader with each new discovery. But a terrific find nonetheless.

 
 
Robert Lifson
(Login RobertEdwardAuctionsLLC)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 6:34 PM 

I want to be very careful not agreeing absolutely in full with someone who is paying for dinner at Peter Luger's! (Please let me know when this is.) The team card doesn't look like a counter display to me. I've never seen a counter display this size. It would be the smallest counter display in the world, and one of the few with no way to stand itself up and be displayed. It looks like a card or a premium that was given away to promote The Baltimore News. I don't think it could possibly be anything else. Maybe there were a pile of these at the newsstand that were given away, we'll never know. The definition of what is or is not a card is always amusing. Sometimes there are gray areas. This one fits every defintion of a card to me but I suppose it really depends on how you define a card. Does a card have to be a particular thickness? No.(T201 Mecca) Is a card allowed to have a photographic surface? Yes. (T200 Fatima) Is a card allowed to have a blank back? Yes.(Exhibit cards) Is a card allowed to be 4.5 x 6.5 inches? Yes.(cabinet cards, larger issues such as T3 Turkey Reds). If one defines a card as not being allowed to have a combination of (or all of) these qualities, then it's not a card. That is not how I define a card but I know that different people might think differently. Now don't go excluding me from dinner just because I think this is a card!

 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 6:49 PM 

There are a number of unmounted photos that are widely considered to be baseball
cards, most notably the T222 and T200 Fatimas. The key with these is that they
were distributed as baseball cards, inserted into tobacco products. If this
Ruth photo was given away to the public as a trade card card or suppliment or
whatever to promote the newspaper, it could be reasonably argued that it counts
as a baseball card. The text on front clearly shows that it was used as advertising
and distrubed by the newspaper.

As the item was pictured in an album with those corner tabs, many peoples' first
impression was 'looks like a family snapshot.' If the item was pictured in a PSA
slab, the perception likely would have been different.


    
This message has been edited by drc1 on Oct 20, 2006 7:00 PM


 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

here's the deal

October 20 2006, 6:52 PM 

Rob- if you are willing to have a steak dinner with me at Peter Luger's then I am willing to agree it's a card. Aren't you still a vegetarian?

 
 
Robert Lifson
(Login RobertEdwardAuctionsLLC)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 7:01 PM 

I am but they have good salads, pasta, and drinks.

 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

hmm

October 20 2006, 7:13 PM 

Salad and pasta don't count as a steak, so I will only concede it's half a card...actually, I think it's great to see you posting on the board, and feel you should participate more often. Rob knows more about this hobby than all of us yahoos put together. As some of you may know Rob and I worked together in 1999 cataloguing the Halper sale, and there wasn't one piece in the entire collection that Rob didn't have complete knowledge of, so hopefully this will be his start as a regular contributor...and by the way, the tomato and raw onion salad with Peter Luger sauce is exceptional.

 
 

Brian Weisner
(Login BRIANKW)

Re: New 1914 Babe Ruth Card Discovered?

October 20 2006, 7:18 PM 


Hi Barry,
I agree, Rob can eat all the ruffage he wants, and I will take care of his steak. I've never had the pleasure of "meating" Rob or Barry, but would be happy to do so at Luger's. I'll be in NY in Nov for the Anti Defamation League awards and would like to see you guys, Be well Brian

 
 
 
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