Can those of you who have collected these throw out some guesses as to the relative scarcity of the different backs. I know the red Crofts candy is the toughest, but how tough is the blue compared with the black or red? How do they compare with Crofts Cocoa? What about Dockmans? How do you think they compare with other standard E sets from E90-1 - E106? Thanks,
JimB

Jim- you left out Nadjas. While I'm not an expert, here's my guess:

Nadja and Dockman are easiest
Crofts Cocoa and Crofts Candy black are tougher
Blue Crofts are tougher than blacks
Red Crofts- you can only get them from Leon- he has them all, that greedy

hey jim i put the value of blue crofts about 3x over a regular black back, not sure about the red as leon has sold only one so we have to go case-by-case on those.

i never collected the dockmans (common backs/cartoony lithos) but they would fall in the e95/e93 in term of scarcity. since e92s/e101s/e102s were all printed at the same time/place i would guess just like the other 2 sets some e92s are harder to come by.

i'm sure if u email pete he can give you better info as he's been collecting the set for years.

I agree with Barry's list with one caveat. Although the Nadja St. Louis cards seem to be on ebay constantly, only a few non-St. Louis players show up. In fact other than one Wagner, I cant recall the last Nadja HOFer that showed up for sale (other than STL cards of Bresnahan and Wallace). I would put the non-STL players at or above the Crofts Cocoa.

Funny thing is Oldcardboard.com lists Nadja as being the most valuable back. Obviously crofts cocoa and almost all the Crofts candy are selling for more then the nadja backs. Is crofts candy, black font, selling for more then nadja too?

Bruce is correct that the Nadja St.Louis is plentiful compared to Nadja's from any other team.

Thanks for all the info guys.
JimB

Here is how I would rank them:

1. Croft's Candy Red
2. Nadja (non-STL)
3. Croft's Cocoa
4. Croft's Candy Blue
5. Croft's Candy Black
6. Nadja (STL only)
7. Dockman

I've owned all but the Croft's Candy Red variety, and have followed them fairly closely for about 4 years. The scarcity of the Nadja (non-STL) are not fully appreciated in my opinion because the Nadja (STL) are so much easier.

I would say group 1 is in a class by itself. Group 2 is in a class by itself also, although much easier to find than Group 1. Groups 3, 4, and 5 are very similar although Group 5 is slightly easier. Group 6 is then a step below, and Group 7 is by far the easiest.

However, I also believe that there are a certain poses that are tougher than others in a particular group. This is probably easiest to see in Dockman's because they are the most common.

My experience is close to Colts on scarcity of these.....his was:

1. Croft's Candy Red
2. Nadja (non-STL)
3. Croft's Cocoa
4. Croft's Candy Blue
5. Croft's Candy Black
6. Nadja (STL only)
7. Dockman


Since this is only a backs discussion I don't put the Nadja's as high..with understanding that the non-STL Najdas are very tough but it's still the same back....my list...most difficult to least...

1. Croft's Candy Red
2. Croft's Candy Blue
3. Croft's Cocoa
4. Croft's Candy Black
5. Nadja
6. Dockman

The Cocoa and blue backs are close but I have personally seen a few more of the Cocoa's......Also, blank backs could be put in there and I would put them as number 2 if they are included....
best regards
leon

Any thoughts on numbers. I know there are only a handful of red Crofts Candys, but how many more blacks are there than blues? Three times as many? Two times as many. Any thoughts on how much tougher one is compared with the others?
Jim

From my personal experience (I always say that as I am a relative newbie to collecting, albeit an addicted one, but a newbie nonetheless) I have seen about 9 Red Backs including the 6 I have owned/own. I got five of them from one gentleman that was an old time dealer and was 81 yrs young. He never mentioned what color the backs were until I asked. I was quite happy when he said they were red. I have probably seen 50-70 blue backs and a few more than that on the black ones....On the Cocoa's I have seen about 200 (yes, I have seen that many) and the Nadja's and Dockmans many more than that...Except for the red ones these are obviously close approximates....As we know most old time collectors didn't give a rats patoot about backs, which is sort of interesting....They collected E92 as one set....

Thanks Leon and everybody.
JimB

About a year and a half ago, I asked the question of how tough a Croft's Candy blue back is compared the black back. The general response I got at that time was roughly 10x more black back than blue back.

Since then, I've been looking for both blue and black back. I don't have hard numbers, but it feels like the blue is not as tough as other people seemed to think. I would peg it more like 3x to 5x more black back than blue back. It's possible my short time looking into these cards were at a time when blue backs were on sale more often, so I concede the possibilty the short time and small sample size skews my perception.

It really is too bad that neither SGC or PSA separates out the blue/black/red backs in their pop reports. (or do they?)

King- I would guess your 3-5x estimate is fairly accurate. 10 to 1 just seems kind of extreme. But pop reports never really deal with the backs. If SGC or PSA have graded 100 T206 red Cobbs, do we have any idea what the back breakdown is?

I thought SGC did break down the backs for the T206s in their pop reports...but their problem was that they have a software issue with breaking down the poses for each player.

And PSA started listing the backs a few months back with the T206 labels, although I'm not sure if it is in their pop reports yet.

If SGC does it, then I guess I've never checked. Sorry.