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ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007 at 1:46 AM

  (Login zguinness)


 
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(Login studentt206)

I can't find the thread

February 27 2007, 2:03 AM 

I posted a thread about what this card would go for if auctioned months ago. I think I said 5M or 2M but can't remember. I think I am biased now that it sold in the 2M range, but I think I said 5M. Can't find my post in when I do a search I can't find it, help!! I hope I said 2M and not 5M. Either way not long before it will be a 5M card IMOHP.

Damian

 
 


(Login zguinness)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:11 AM 

I agree. It certainly doesn't show any trend in decreasing that's for sure.

 
 


(Login zguinness)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:18 AM 

Damian,

I found the thread you were talking about.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1169093324/

Zach S.

 
 

(Login gscheyd)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:24 AM 

Any chance the new owner will cross it over for an AUTH grade from SGC?

 
 
David Smith
(Login ctownboy)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:34 AM 

If that were to happen, would PSA be on the hook for the $2.35 million purchase price??

 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:43 AM 

"This particular one was preserved in spectacular condition," said the PSA President.

An interesting choice of double meaning word in my opinion, as the word 'preserved' conjures in my mind things in altered states like pickles, jams and embalmed bodies. Dracula preserved (and entombed, interestingly enough) his victims.


    
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 27, 2007 3:50 AM
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 27, 2007 3:40 AM
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 27, 2007 3:34 AM
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 27, 2007 3:25 AM
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 27, 2007 2:56 AM
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 27, 2007 2:48 AM


 
 

(Login studentt206)

DOOO! Hit my head it was $5M!!!

February 27 2007, 2:54 AM 

Thanks Zach for the leg work. I was pretty sure I predicted 5M and didn't want to admit. This thread is going to go miles and miles. Here we go!! Leon, try and make sure the parachute works!!! It's gonna be a dozzie!!

Best Regards,
Damian

 
 

Hal Lewis
(Login HalleyGator)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 6:53 AM 

Come on...

surely SOMEONE on here can tell us WHO BOUGHT IT???

 
 
anthony
(Login lug-nut)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 6:53 AM 

there go my chances at owning a psa 1...just bumped the price from 200k to 400k

 
 


(Login asphaltman76)

Hal

February 27 2007, 6:54 AM 

You mean it wasn't you? I was ready to offer congrats this morning. LOL

Dave

 
 

(Login barrysloate)

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 7:32 AM 

Didn't the article state that SCP Auctions bought a piece of it? If true, it may be so that in the future Sotheby's would get a shot at reselling it.

 
 

(Login studentt206)

Wagner

February 27 2007, 7:56 AM 

Maybe it will be cut up into a hundred pieces and put into cards as an insert buy "Stupid Deck". They could also cut up the case and flip and put it into cards. Good idea!!

Damian

 
 


(Login asphaltman76)

I'll ask the question again...

February 27 2007, 8:04 AM 

Since "alot" of folks believe this card to be trimmed...IF it were sent to SGC to crossover, would SGC slab it nrmt as well....or give it an authentic label? Would the prestige of the card be too overbearing to allow SGC to just stick it as authentic?

 
 

(Login martyogelvie)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 8:05 AM 

scary synopsis but probably not far from the truth with Upper Deck.

martyOgelvie
nyyankeecards.com

 
 
Pennsylvania Ted
(Login tedzan)

T206 Wagner

February 27 2007, 8:12 AM 

Have no fear, the buyer is not about to crack the plastic on this card
and re-submit to another Grading Co.

It would be quite interesting if this occured; but, it never will.

Unless, all the members of Net54 pool their $$$$ and buy this card.
Then, do you guys think all of us would arrive at a consensus to crack
it and submit it to SGC ?

 
 

(Login barrysloate)

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 8:39 AM 

If we pool our money, buy it, and cross it over to SGC, we better be prepared for the worst!

 
 


(Login asphaltman76)

Barry

February 27 2007, 8:41 AM 

I truely don't believe that SGC would have the ***** to do anything other than pretty much a direct crossover from what PSA has the card at. There is no way that "the card" of the hobby...the most famed individual speciman of "the card" would ever go into a SGC Authentic slab....no way.


Obviously I know nobody is going to try crossing it to begin with.

 
 

(Login barrysloate)

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 8:48 AM 

I think SGC would return it to the owner as is, and tell him you probably don't want to go there. They have to treat it like any submission, and make an objective decision.

 
 


(Login asphaltman76)

Barry

February 27 2007, 8:54 AM 

And I believe....SGC would welcome the attention it would receive having the Wagner in a SGC 88 holder...

 
 

(Login barrysloate)

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 8:56 AM 

This is a very provocative discussion, and I wonder which way they would go if they had any reservations whatsoever.

Edited to add SGC has a strict buyback policy, and if they make an error by slabbing an altered card, and they missed the alteration, they agree to refund to the buyer the purchase price. Any further thoughts in light of this?


    
This message has been edited by barrysloate on Feb 27, 2007 8:59 AM


 
 

(Login glynparson)

Discussion with Dave.

February 27 2007, 10:22 AM 

I had a discussion with Dave Forman, whom I have known for about 16-17 years, about this very card. He told me that their is not a grading company out there that would not slab this card. This leads me to believe SGC would be happy to grade the card.

Edited to add: This was before Dave purchased SGC.
Also added: They said collector was from LA area, did Don Louchious buy it?


    
This message has been edited by glynparson on Feb 27, 2007 10:30 AM
This message has been edited by glynparson on Feb 27, 2007 10:26 AM


 
 

MVSNYC
(Login mvsnyc)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 10:40 AM 

i had information a few months back that the card sold for over $2M to someone "outside of the hobby"...meaning NOT one of the big well known collectors...

 
 


(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 11:02 AM 

Why does there seem to be the assumption that the card would receive an "AUTH" from SGC?

 
 


(Login bijoem)

Hal - I can help you with your question

February 27 2007, 11:31 AM 

It wasn't me.

(thats one less person on the list of possibles).


 
 


(Login asphaltman76)

Josh

February 27 2007, 11:35 AM 

There are many people...as well as quite a few on this board that believe the card is trimmed...thats why I asked the hypothetical question about crossing it over for the SGC guys

 
 
steve
(Login 200backstroke)

Demand, Demand, Demand

February 27 2007, 11:40 AM 

My jeez ! 2.3+ Million for the best card in about a total population of about 60 known examples !!! Just goes to show that Demand, not supply, rules the card world. I have a couple Wagner's that are highest ever graded (Colgan's regular PSA 8 & Tin Top SGC 60), if auctioned maybe on a lucky day hit 2 Thousand, not 2 Million. Overall real good for the T206 market - keep your nice HOF'ers tucked away.

 
 


(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 11:43 AM 

Dave,
Thanks.

So it's really just speculation?

 
 

MVSNYC
(Login mvsnyc)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 11:43 AM 

guys- we all know that NO ONE is ever going to crack this out of the PSA slab...

i can't stand this "trimmed" debate...i have owned several very high-end, unaltered PSA T206 cards, that measure smaller than this wagner...this ongoing discussion is annoying.

 
 

(Login Marckus99)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 11:45 AM 

a fool and his money....will soon part.

m.

 
 


(Login slidekellyslide)
Network 54 Moderator

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 11:48 AM 

I personally don't think it's trimmed....the rest of the card is in such great shape it's hard for me to believe that the corners of the card were rounded enough that someone decided to trim the card.

 
 
Colt McClelland
(Login cmcclelland)

Return on Investment

February 27 2007, 11:54 AM 

What strikes me is that, assuming Brian Seigel owned the card for approximately 7 years and paid $1.265M, he had an annualized return of about 13% by my calculation. That's obviously not bad. However, considering the risk and liquidity issues associated with this collectible, I don't think it can really be viewed as a home run from an investment perspective. I guess another way to look at it is to say that maybe the new owner is getting a very good buy at this price.

I know that no one is really trying to say this was a home run investment here, but I just thought it was interesting to point out the actual return on investment. A gain of over $1M sounds great at first blush, and in reality it's not bad. However, there are certainly a lot of other investments that would have done much better over the last 7 years and probably with much less risk.

Also, I didn't have time to go back and do all of the calculations, but my guess is that this 7 year period of ownership is among the lowest yielding periods of ownership for this card in terms of annualized return on investment.

I'm not trying to start a debate of investing vs. collecting or anything like that. I just thought this was interesting to point out.


 
 


(Premier Login leonl)
Forum Owner

For the record

February 27 2007, 12:08 PM 

I believe the sentiment, from very long time hobby veterans close to this card, is that it was cut from a sheet much later than the mfg date. My personal opinion is that SGC would be reluctant to put a numerical grade on it...due to their guarantee. I could be wrong as this is only a guess. best regards

 
 

(Login pchaos)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 12:17 PM 

Colt,

The scary aspect of all this is that it may actually lead to a slowdown in the market for T-206s. During the 7 years there were many T-206s that doubled in price, now that we find out that the Gretzky Wagner didn't even double, this should lead to slowing of appreciation for other T-206s.

Peter

 
 

(Login croftscocoa)

Leon is correct.

February 27 2007, 12:19 PM 

This card was originally found on an intact "uncut" sheet in a FL flea market. There was also a Plank on the sheet - it is now in a PSA 8 holder as well.

To make a long story short, these cards were cut from this sheet then ended up in Bill Mastro's hands (who bartered the price down b/c of the "wavy top border" of the Wagner), then Bill sold the Wagner and Plank to Copeland and the rest is history.

 
 

(Login barrysloate)

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 12:19 PM 

While the yearly return may have only been 13%, I know the owner got tons of joy and publicity owning it, and that is worth something too. He was generous with his time, and took it to schools and shows and everywhere else to display it. If you had a bond that paid 13% a year (not a bad bond at that) you would stick it in the vault and never look at it again.

 
 


(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 12:24 PM 

An uncut sheet? sounds kinda cool. Any photos of this uncut sheet? Or any uncut t206s sheets in general?

"many hobby veterans?" Who is considered a "hobby veteran?" Seems like an arbitrary title. Sounds like "Government Official X." Without any evidence of someone who actually saw it, such statements seem like speculation, which is ok. Don't get me wrong, not ripping, just wanted to understand why some people said what they said. And I have. Thank you
In the end, it doesn't matter much, because I will not be plunking down a million bucks for a baseball card.
Perhaps the Dorskind Group bought the card? We don't know how many members make up said group, they could have pooled their money! LOL.

 
 


(Login slidekellyslide)
Network 54 Moderator

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 12:24 PM 

Scott, I would love to hear the florida flea market story....there has to be a story right? Who found it there? What did they pay for it? Why did they cut it up?

 
 

(Login croftscocoa)

Dan, I have since thrown out all the info. I had on the subject.

February 27 2007, 12:30 PM 

Hell, I was banned from bidding in Mastro auctions for a while for talking about this! When I quit collecting, I cleaned out my filing cabinet and threw out the folders of info. I had on this card. I had all the names of people involved going back to the "find" at the flea market.

I do know a couple of people who have probably as much, if not more, info. than I had on the card now. One is well known here - he contacted me to see what info. I had left a year or so ago. I also know that there is at least one individual, whom has been in contact with me over the past few years, who is doing a book on the card - should be interesting as he has done his homework (in fact, the other person who posts on here has done his homework as well and has a TON of info.). I will not post their names - they can if they want to.

I am done with this subject!!!!

 
 

(Login flinchfree)

The first time

February 27 2007, 12:31 PM 

I have ever heard such a detailed and confidently spoken accounting of this card's history........any reason Scott that such a complete picture is just now being offered, we've all dined on such meagre morsels in the dark for so many years?

Daniel

 
 
David Smith
(Login ctownboy)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 12:31 PM 

OK, so here is another couple of question; which would you rather have, the uncut sheet with Wagner and Plank or the cut cards? Which would be worth more, the sheet or the individual cards?

Personally, I think an uncut sheet with both Wagner and Plank would be sooo cool if mounted properly and displayed on a wall but that is just me.


David

 
 

(Login pchaos)

Most Valuable

February 27 2007, 12:32 PM 

Guys,

On the bright side of all this is that the Gretzky Wagner card has reclaimed it's position as the most valuable piece of Baseball Memorabilia in existence. Surely, it is more valuable than the 3 million that McFarland paid for McGwire's home run ball.

Peter

 
 

MVSNYC
(Login mvsnyc)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 12:42 PM 

peter-

what are you talking about? the wagner almost exactly doubled...this is very good news for T206 collectors...

 
 

(Login pchaos)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 12:48 PM 

MVSYNC,

The Gretzky Wagner went up $1.1 million which is lots of money, but it did not double. However, go through your T-206 Hall of Famers in your collection, try to recall what the prices were back in the year 2000. My guess is that at least half of the HOFs doubled during that period of time. So there were lots of cards in the set that did better than the Wagner as an investment during the 7 years.

Peter

 
 


(Login asphaltman76)

Peter

February 27 2007, 1:17 PM 

I think with the card going for 2.35 million...while maybe not doubling is a huge jump. Obviously with the current market value for it, the Wagner can't keep doubling everytime it is sold...lord it would be selling for $20 million by 2015. Have to keep in perspective the amount of money we are talking about that it would take to "double" this card.

 
 

MVSNYC
(Login mvsnyc)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 1:17 PM 

peter-

1.25 to 2.35 is close enough to "doubling" in my book...

over the last 15 years it has gone up by a factor of 5!

$451K ---> $2.35M

 
 


(Login tbob)
Registered Users

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 1:24 PM 

Anyone want to hazard a guess for the difference in value between this slabbed Honus and an uncut sheet with the Honus on it? Just curious...

 
 


(Login slidekellyslide)
Network 54 Moderator

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 1:25 PM 

Lordy!!! Now I'll never be able to sleep until I know the details of this Florida flea market deal.

 
 

(Login pchaos)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 1:32 PM 

Dan,

Your a true historian, that's great. The rest of us are thinking about the bucks involved and your more interested in the historical route that the Gretzky Wagner traveled.

Peter

 
 

MVSNYC
(Login mvsnyc)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 1:34 PM 

i am torn about whether or not the uncut sheet would fetch more or less than the two seperate cards graded PSA 8 (wagner & plank)...?

the uncut proof sheet from Halper only sold for $75,000, which i think was the deal of the century...BUT that says to me that peopel really prefer to have the actual card, not an uncut sheet...

how much do the uncut lajoie goudey sheets fetch?

 
 


(Login slidekellyslide)
Network 54 Moderator

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 1:44 PM 

I think uncut sheets will sell for less than the cards combined in similar condition because of the PSA registry collectors - they don't want sheets they want pristine cards. If there was a way to cut the cards that they would be undetected and placed into slabs you would probably see the prices for sheets going higher. - I do realize that cards can be cut by machine, but I'm guessing if a highly publicized goudey sheet with a Lajoie were to be sold by Masto or somesuch then a few weeks later a PSA 9 Lajoie shows up there's going to be some questions....and now I'm just rambling.

 
 

(Login pchaos)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:00 PM 

Guys,

Since the Gretzky Wagner came from an uncut sheet. Would you consider it to be an uncirculated card.

Peter

 
 

(Login tedzan)

"Famous" T206 Wagner

February 27 2007, 2:01 PM 

LEON referred to the veterans in the hobby, who well know the history of this Wagner card.
I am not sure if it came from an uncut sheet. My recollection is that it was from an original
collection from Long Island, NY.

I personally saw it up close in the mid-1980's at Willow Grove in it's "NAKED" form. But, I am
not going to talk about it any further. However, here is the link to Bill Heitman's post on this
Forum which tells us the real story. It is very interesting reading and may shock a lot of you.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1131705519/last-1132579205/More+on+PSA>


    
This message has been edited by tedzan on Feb 27, 2007 3:06 PM


 
 


(Login boxingcardman)

There's rare and then there's famous

February 27 2007, 2:03 PM 

The card had acquired the most valuable thing in the world for non-essential items: fame. The card isn't as rare as many others and it may even be cut down from a sheet. Guess what: no one who could buy it cares! The card is the best known card in the world and that alone will drive its price. Perhaps some day the rich men who buy cards like this will collectively tire of puffing out their...chests and saying they own the #1 card in the world, but I don't see that happening. If rich men with toys were rationally analyzing their purchases, they wouldn't buy T206 Wagners, Picasso paintings, Ferraris, or Anna Nicole Smiths, now would they? The motives for owning a rare and expensive toy are non-financial; the cash is secondary. Hell, the seller could have tripled his money in the last five years in any of a dozen hot real estate markets, but he wouldn't make the news and be known as the man who owned the best toy ever.

 
 


(Login Wite3)

Hobby Veteran and personal knowledge

February 27 2007, 2:27 PM 

Josh,
I am a hobby veteran in my own definition. I have 20 years experience with vintage cards (granted mostly Phillies and T205s) and think that many people who have had more than 20 years have examined the card.

Back in 1991 at the National in Anaheim a friend of mine and I were both able to actually hold this Wagner in our hands. We were then chased off by the owner because we had pulled out a couple of T206 commons and held them behind the wagner. It is trimmed. Very slightly but the two or three commons we held were all visible behind the wagner. I understand it was cut from a sheet but I still feel that it may have been trimmed a second time to even up the borders before PSA got their hands on it.

Granted, this is only my opinion and my choice of commons may have been off, or my eyesight, or ???. Take with it what you will.

Joshua

 
 


(Login T206Collector)

When I read...

February 27 2007, 2:28 PM 

...Bill Heitman's entry in the link posted above, I sat back once again, safe in the knowledge that all of my T206 cards are SGC graded and not a single one lingers in a PSA holder.

To all of those who have their collections in PSA, I'm sure you have pently of rationalizations for why stuff like this doesn't matter. I'm just glad I don't have to rationalize.


 
 

(Login barrysloate)

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:32 PM 

Good analysis Adam. Ego is the whole ballgame here and you're right, they're just toys to own for awhile and then discard. Some joy of ownership along the way for sure, but you still hit the bullseye.

 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 2:48 PM 

Duly note that in the State of California, the seller of an item like this is required to include paper document guaranteeing the authenticity and stating any known alterations or restorations. The new owner has a period of time to return the item if the statements proves not to be true, and the original seller could be fined if it is shown he or she broke this law.

This law was written in response to fine art fraud and forgery, but also explicitly applies to the sales of collectibles worth a minimum of a certain amount.


    
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 27, 2007 2:56 PM


 
 

MVSNYC
(Login mvsnyc)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 3:02 PM 

http://www.scpauctions.com/

i received an email from SCP just now, with this announcement.

 
 
Neal Kane
(Login jacksdad)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 3:03 PM 

<<To all of those who have their collections in PSA, I'm sure you have pently of rationalizations for why stuff like this doesn't matter. I'm just glad I don't have to rationalize.>>

I don't have to rationalize either ... and I collect mainly PSA graded cards. I also own a few SGC graded cards, and that area of my collection is growing.

I do not the true story behind the card, nor do I care. PSA has graded a ton of cards. Many of them have been overgraded, many have been undergraded, and many of them have been altered and then slabbed -- I hear about those often. I would imagine that other grading companies have a pretty close percentage to what is over/under graded, as well as altered material that somehow got slabbed.

To post on how PSA got a grade correct would make some pretty boring reading. As far as my collection goes, PSA has gotten it right pretty much every single time.


    
This message has been edited by jacksdad on Feb 27, 2007 3:06 PM


 
 


(Login T206Collector)

Even if it were true...

February 27 2007, 3:10 PM 

...that "other grading companies have a pretty close percentage to what is over/under graded, as well as altered material that somehow got slabbed," only SGC provides you with the buy back guarantee. To me, that is the key to purchasing graded cards.

 
 

(Login pchaos)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 3:21 PM 

Guys,

I prefer SGC also, but then I liked CTA better than PSA also and look at what happened to them. I have to admit though that PSA knows how to market themselves. Their recent full-page ads in hobby periodicals focus on their registry.

From a marketing viewpoint, it makes a lot of sense, because that's where they can clearly differentiate themselves from other grading companies.

Peter

 
 

(Login croftscocoa)

Wagner History.

February 27 2007, 3:47 PM 

I have been contacted by several people wanting to know more about the Wagner card. If you do, feel free to e-mail me. I have written down what I know and am not typing it again, but will forward it to anyone in an e-mail that wants to know. E-mail me at tycobb@adelphia.net. Don't get worried if I don't respond until later tonight, as I have a ton of things to finish doing for the day.

 
 

(Login tobacco-r-us)

PSA or SGC???

February 27 2007, 6:43 PM 

Quote by T206C.
"When I read... Bill Heitman's entry in the link posted above, I sat back once again, safe in the knowledge that all of my T206 cards are SGC graded and not a single one lingers in a PSA holder."
*
*
T206C. I'm surprised you said that.
Somehow, some of the slab aficcionados keep forgetting that the Rosen/Keith O./Joe Doyle error card fiasco was entombed in an SGC holder.

I just want to be totally unbiased, and democratic about the who's the betta slabber topic.

I want to go on record.
I enjoy cracking, and freeing any poor defenseless T206 creature from whatever enslaving company, regardless of brand, factory # and religious belief.
Try carrying around a binder filled with 525 slabs and tell me that it's fun.

It sure is easy to see who the collectors and investors are in this forum.

Whatever happenned to collecting cards for fun, and as a sublimation to the investing world around us?

The mindset of a collector, and the mindset of an investor, are totally two different animals.
On this forum, they can coexist without a problem.

When I was into stocks, I never considered my portfolio as part of a collection. ... There were short, and long term hopes to make money. .... hopefully was a key word.

Which brought me to collecting baseball cardboard.
A form of distraction, or sublimation to hopefully forget the realities of the investment world.

I must say that I succeeded in my goal to have fun.
Totally refused to let the investment mindset to get into my game, and it worked for me. ... to each, his own.

Are you a collector, or an investor?


 
 
peter chao
(Login pchaos)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 7:11 PM 

Joe,

I don't see it as two different animals. I'm both a collector and an investor. I have a core group of about 250 cards that are part of my collection and not for sale. Then I have about 199,000 other cards that I don't know what to do with. These other cards I would trade, sell, or give away when the time is right.

Peter

 
 

(Login t206kid)

Honus

February 27 2007, 8:59 PM 

I agree Peter. I have less than 100 cards in my collection (excluding 1 high grade 1950's set). I sold everything else for these reasons.

I am really curious as to who bought this card. We know that it was a lesser known private collecter from the LA area. Anyone card to elaborate...

 
 
Alan
(Login Jewish-collector)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 9:07 PM 

My guess is that the buyer could be Gary Cypress.

http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr0505/cypress.chtml

 
 

(Login knglerxt)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 9:59 PM 

What's up with all the secrecy regarding the history of this card? It makes me think someone's got something to hide.

 
 

(Login FYS)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 10:20 PM 

"Since "alot" of folks believe this card to be trimmed...IF it were sent to SGC to crossover, would SGC slab it nrmt as well....or give it an authentic label? Would the prestige of the card be too overbearing to allow SGC to just stick it as authentic?"

I am certain they would love to grade the card and it would get an AUTH grade. I do not think they would do a SGC 88 (Hand Cut) grade, as that is reserved only for cards that did not come cut from the manufacturer at all.

 
 

(Login FYS)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 10:37 PM 

"T206C. I'm surprised you said that.
Somehow, some of the slab aficcionados keep forgetting that the Rosen/Keith O./Joe Doyle error card fiasco was entombed in an SGC holder."

The Doyle error is THE SGC legacy of F-Up's. I am not sure why certain people feel the need to bring this up to bash SGC, because the real truth shows that SGC is second to none when it comes to standing behind their product. This is also why the PSA 8 Plank and Wagner would never be anything but AUTH in an SGC holder. What happened with the Doyle:

1. SGC admitted failure.
2. SGC paid Rosen back the money he paid for the card plus his advertising expenses.
3. I believe Rosen paid around $8,000 for the card.

I assume SGC is not very proud of this moment in history, but I would publish this in every issue of their SGC collector magaizine to show the guarantee in action.




 
 


(Login sabrjay)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 27 2007, 11:22 PM 

SGC has had one major screw up and did the right thing when it was exposed. PSA has a litany of major screw ups and refuses to admit to their mistakes. Dan McKee can testify to the fact that it takes a law suit in order to get any money out of PSA when they screw up.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

 
 

(Login tobacco-r-us)

MikeU . ...

February 27 2007, 11:52 PM 

I think you missed my point completely.
Read what led up to it again.
Before you jump into the pool, check to see if there's water in it.

I wasn't putting down SGC in their what you call the Universally known Rosen/Keith O./Doyle error .. THE SGC legacy of F-Up's.

If you read and followed this thread, you'll see where T206C. was flaunting the SGC banner over the poor PSA parishioners.
He was declaring the wisdom, and the unfaulty ways of SGC without mercy. .... just like you are.

I couldn't help it.
Something got a hold of me.
I just had to come to the aid of the poor misguided lambs from the PSA cult.
So what did I do.

I reminded T206C. ... of the Great SGC Mother of all F-Ups.

MikeU. ..... I'll have you know, that I don't play favorites.

It doesn't matter to me, whether it's a GSC or PSA that I crack open.

Joe P.

 
 

(Login AdamBaxter)

Olbermann

February 28 2007, 1:09 AM 

"There are many people...as well as quite a few on this board that believe the card is trimmed."

Olbermann seems to think so. He mentioned the Wagner sale on Countdown tonight and commmented on the fact that the card is visibly smaller then it had been in the past. Judging by his comments and tone of his report, I would say that he has his doubts about the uncut sheet theory.

 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 28 2007, 2:19 AM 

For many hobbyists the rule of thumb is that someone who spends $2.35 million on a
baseball card probably can afford a better lawyer than them; and if they're going
to be sued to destitution, it should be for something better than disrespecting
a baseball card.

The smart hobbyist saves his chat board card disrespecting for cards worth less than
$10. So if a Net54 member wants a free flow of critiquing, he should post a scan
of a 1988 Fleer.


    
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 28, 2007 2:32 AM
This message has been edited by drc1 on Feb 28, 2007 2:24 AM


 
 

(Login Davalillo)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 28 2007, 7:46 AM 

My guess is Dreier bought it.

This wouyld be a $5 million card minimum if it were widely viewed as a legit psa 8.

 
 

Richard
(Login 39williams)

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 28 2007, 8:08 AM 

I wonder how this sale will impact the prices of other Wagner cards like E90-2, E103, E107, etc. What is the opinion on this?
Thank You

 
 


(Login asphaltman76)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

February 28 2007, 8:24 AM 

This wouyld be a $5 million card minimum if it were widely viewed as a legit psa 8.


What Jim? So even YOU believe this card has been altered and isn't an 8??? Why the double standard? Your PSA 8's and 9's are all legit..but the Wagner isn't? Ha ha.

 
 


(Login T206Collector)

Fair is fair

February 28 2007, 9:00 AM 

Two points:

(1) "T206C. was flaunting the SGC banner over the poor PSA parishioners.
He was declaring the wisdom, and the unfaulty ways of SGC without mercy."

Absolutely not. SGC are human, but willing to acknowledge their humanity and make it right with their buy-back guarantee. Apart from more consistency of grading, better customer service and nicer holders, it is this that really separates them from PSA.

(2) In JimC's defense, he has readily admitted to me that not all of his PSA 8's are on the up-and-up.


 
 

(Login tobacco-r-us)

The Saga of "Who's a Betta Slabba?" :)

February 28 2007, 12:58 PM 

"Absolutely not. SGC are human, but willing to acknowledge their humanity and make it right with their buy-back guarantee."
*
*
Blessed be for the humanitarians at SGC.
We can now safely say that the Union, and the baseball card investments are preserved.

A little background is in order.
Before the grading humanitarians migrated from the Numismatic Market to the fertile fields of baseball cardboards (AKA the hobby), the collectors and dealers graded their own cards.
They looked at, and handled enough cards so that they were able to grade their own.
They read the Lipsets, and Heitman's plus dig deep into their research.
No PC's, therefore it wasn't easy to pick brains like it's customary here.
There was no getting away from doing leg work, and exchanging thoughts without the help of a PC.

The problem was, and it still is:
That Beauty Was in the Eye's of the Beholder.
Dealers and collectors were not always in agreement on the grades.
Therefore, "Abargainigan" was the order of the day at shows.
You know what, the give and take was fun.

So here comes the slab humanitarians, after screwing up the numismatic hobby offering the card board collectors the perfect way to grade Sides and Corners.

I'll be the first to agree that they were great with Sides and Corners.
They were good.
They were pretty, but guess what?
Why the question by da slabheads of Who's Da Betta Slabba?

We're back to the old school collectors.

The only difference is that besides knowing how to grade their own cards, due to their many trials and errors, they also are more likely better at spotting an altered, or doctored card.
It took Mark Macrae, and I a long time to convince a mile high dealer at the Texas national in 1990, that he had a non Kosher card.

The slabber contribution to my cardboard hobby is that they helped make it an Investment Game. ... enjoy the game.

 
 

(Login Davalillo)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

March 1 2007, 10:37 AM 

So Mr. Dreier is not the buyer. Bad guess. But somehow SCP may be involved I hear. Interesting.

 
 

(Login pchaos)

Re: ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M

March 1 2007, 7:47 PM 

Jim,

SCP was the minority partner in the purchase. I suspect they are going to try and get all the publicity they can out of the Getzky Wagner and then sometime down the road auction it off.

Peter

 
 
peter chao
(Login pchaos)

Next SCP Auction

March 13 2007, 5:45 PM 

Guys,

Have any idea when the next SCP Auction will take place. Thanks.

Peter

 
 
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