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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007 at 2:12 PM

ScottIngold  (Login aloof1003)

This is a link to some thoughts on where the Wagner came from. Throw in the history about an uncut sheet containing this and a Plank....... Well just real intersting reading.

Simply amazing that this could happen and be kept quiet for so long. I also have a feeling that with all of the knowledge and history on this board that more than a few could add to this.

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=718115&CategoryID=498428&startcat=1&ThreadID=2759585

 
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leon
(Premier Login leonl)
Forum Owner

Scott

February 28 2007, 2:19 PM 

I would prefer not to have links to other forums listed on this site, that are essentially doing the same thing this one does. There is no animosity towards those guys whatsoever and I wish them the best. As far as I know almost everyone over there posts on this board too, which is great. I will leave this one, no big deal, but would prefer not to have links posted to other sites in the future.....especially on the main forum. I have nothing against Jay and Scott for starting that one but the reason they started it is because of the banner ads on this one (and Scott and I hadn't kissed and made up yet ). I don't feel the banner ads have harmed this site at all, nor has anyone kept their mouth shut about anything (which is good too)....regards

 
 

Josh Adams
(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 2:43 PM 

"Throw in the history about an uncut sheet containing this and a Plank"

Is that a fact, or just speculation?
If it is fact true, why hasn't anyone said this in relation to the sale in the past few days?

 
 
Pennsylvania Ted
(Login tedzan)

SCOTT

February 28 2007, 3:13 PM 

Here is the Thread you initiated in 2005 that provides a lot of debate on this topic......

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1131565466/last-1132579205/lawsuit+against+psa+for+10.5+million+awarded+to........

 
 
Scott Elkins
(Login croftscocoa)

Leon, you will be waiting a long time if you think......

February 28 2007, 3:25 PM 

we are going to kiss (no offense - you have the wrong plumbing to be my type is all)! However, we have buried the hatchet and I am glad.

Josh - I have been telling people about this card for a long time now - going back to the old boards. I caught a lot of Hell for it as well, since it involves Bill Mastro and some of the big dogs in the Hobby. I threw out all my files on this Wagner when I quit collecting a few years ago.

However, I do know that M. Wentz and M. O'Keeffe (a reporter who has been in touch with me over the past couple of years) have a ton of info. on this card - including some "Before" pics of the Wagner - before it was cut down a second time! If they want to share what they know, that is up to them. I do know there is going to be a book about the card coming out shortly by Mr. O'Keeffe. He has done the right thing - waiting until he has the facts together first and obtaining as much info. as possible.

Like I stated on my site - the most difficult thing in researching this card is that EVERYONE involved has lied about the card or is lying now!

 
 

Dave
(Login asphaltman76)

I've asked this before..and don't think I got an answer..

February 28 2007, 3:30 PM 

Scott-
Do you or anyone else here have any idea how the Wagner was distributed in the short time it was? I know it was only available with Sweet Caporal, but I'm curious about where Sweet Caporal was available? From the amount of SC backs, I would venture a guess it was pretty much like "Winston" and Piedmonts were basically the "Marlboro's" of the time period..so maybe anybody in the country "could" have had a chance at the Wagner...or, could it be it was only distributed to the NEastern US? Or the MidWest?

 
 

leon
(Premier Login leonl)
Forum Owner

so.....

February 28 2007, 3:31 PM 

I also spoke to a hobby veteran (and board member) yesterday about this. To be very succinct it seems the card was cut from a sheet (most agree) and then cut again after that. The top border has never looked too straight to me...and I have seen it, through glass, but in person, many times....best regards (btw, I doubt any of this talk hurts the value)

edited to say ..>Scott- my tongue was very much in cheek when I mentioned kissing you.....agreed, you have the wrong plumbing and I am happily married...


    
This message has been edited by leonl on Feb 28, 2007 3:38 PM


 
 
Scott Elkins
(Login croftscocoa)

Leon, it is nice to be joking around with you again!

February 28 2007, 3:35 PM 

The PSA 8 Wagner has a Piedmont 150 back. In fact, there are around three Wagners that have Piedmont 150 backs - all three look hand cut at one time or another!

 
 
Aaron
(Login aaroncc)

Re: Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 3:36 PM 

Found this is some interesting reading on this topic: http://www.thepit.com/Hub/PC_20010325.asp

 
 

Dave
(Login asphaltman76)

Re: Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 3:37 PM 

Wow...Why did I think all the Wagner's were Sweet Caporal? read that somewhere...I wonder if the "3" Piedmont 150's all were cut from sheets later..maybe never actually distributed?


    
This message has been edited by asphaltman76 on Feb 28, 2007 3:38 PM


 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 3:40 PM 

The general theory is the Piedmont Wagners were never put into circulation.

 
 

Josh Adams
(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 3:43 PM 

"To be very succinct it seems the card was cut from a sheet (most agree) and then cut again after that."

How can you tell that?

 
 

leon
(Premier Login leonl)
Forum Owner

the other Piedmont back

February 28 2007, 3:43 PM 

I held the other single, Piedmont backed, Wagner a few weeks ago. To me it's definitely hand cut and the owner believes so too. It's a great card with some unique provenance.....It reeks of historical significance....

 
 

Dave
(Login asphaltman76)

Re: Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 3:44 PM 

So are the three known cards with a Piedmont back all in great condition?

 
 
Scott Elkins
(Login croftscocoa)

Barry, I agree.

February 28 2007, 3:45 PM 

I just posted a long-winded thread about my "theory" on the Piedmont Wagners on my board - not typing it again, as I am too lazy. You can all check it out if you wish - it should be at the bottom of the thread Scott posted the link to at the top of this thread (if that makes any sense!).

 
 

Josh Adams
(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 3:46 PM 

I mean, how can you tell a card is hand cut? what traits do you look for?
If the Wagner was cut from a sheet as some have suggested, why weren't any pictures taken?
From a collector's point of view, I would imagine that would be a pretty cool uncut sheet of cards.

 
 
Scott Elkins
(Login croftscocoa)

Dave - only the PSA 8 is that nice.

February 28 2007, 3:46 PM 

The other two I have seen are no better than GD and were handcut.

 
 

leon
(Premier Login leonl)
Forum Owner

Josh

February 28 2007, 3:47 PM 

I will not name names but I have spoken with at least a dozen hobby veterans about the history of the PSA8 Wagner...every single one of them says it was cut from a sheet. I am positive they are not all wrong or are all telling a story...So, it's not personally known by me, only told to me, and I believe it...hope this helps.

 
 

Dave
(Login asphaltman76)

May be a stupid question.

February 28 2007, 3:49 PM 

But, does it really matter if the Wagner was handcut from a sheet? It would have been cut from a sheet as well in the factory....so does it matter if it happened a year later....20 years later...or 70 years later? It isn't like there has been any "altering"...right?

 
 

Josh Adams
(Login vintagewhitesox)

Re: Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim

February 28 2007, 3:50 PM 

I don't think I'm explaining myself properly, I appologize.

All I want to know, for my own education, is how can a person tell a card is handcut from looking at it? what traits do you look for? How do you know it's handcut as opposed to just a poor cut by the machine, or whatever did the cutting in 1910?

As for the mystery people, everyone's entitled to privacy.

 
 
 
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