This will be for sale soon in auction....more details coming....Thanks so much to the person allowing this preview to Net54 board members.....I don't want to give anymore details at the moment....thanks again...
Well here's a dumb-a$$ question. What was the product being sold? What is a baseball snap shot? If they cite FDA, was it a candy product?
Very very cool item. Thanks Leon.
One interesting thing I take from this is that some cards have one hand cut edge, and others have two. Of course, most of the cards are hand cut on all four sides, but knowing how many sides actually had to be hand cut just to detach the card from the body of the piece is still interesting.
Looking at this box I think it contained candy or gum, but the box was supposed to resemble a box camera which was very popular at that time. I'm guessing the kids would cut out the little photos and pretend they were photos that they took of the ballplayers.
That is one cool item Leon. Can you tell us when and where it will be auctioned?
edited to add: I just printed that out, cut it out and put it together and I think I'm exactly right. It resembles a box camera.
This message has been edited by slidekellyslide on May 27, 2007 3:31 PM
It does appear to me to be some sort of pinhole camera. If you fold up the box and poke a hole in it in the circle, that is.
It would stand to reason in my mind that the box contained film. Perhaps not plausible if they were issued in 1906, though.
But something seems weird about the W555s to me. Up until just a few months ago, I'd never seen one with anything more than just a tiny bit of black edge. Most were cut right down to the picture. I recognized this becuase W555 was a card type I was looking for.
Then, all of a sudden, a few months ago I started seeing them in bunches with four black edges. They seemed to come from out of nowhere. My initial reaction was "Oh, wow, whatever box they were cut from was black." Then my second reaction was "Wow, where did all these W555s come from, and why do they all have four black edges when I'd never seen one like that before?"
Now, here's a full box, from out of nowhere. Nobody ever knew where these cards came from, and now here's a box.
Cool item, though.
This message has been edited by Novocent on May 27, 2007 5:33 PM
As you can see, and as I have maintained for years, true full size W555's will have 1-2 rounded corners and full border. I have handled many of these in their original state albeit detached from the entire piece seen here. I have always insisted the cut to the white or even black edges are "trimmed", even though each major grading service has continued to slab them as high grade. If they are not in this original full size as shown above they are trimmed, thus making it very easy to cut them down and send in for a 84 or 86 grade which is just plain wrong.
the top 2 cards would have only needed to be separated on one edge, while the lower pair would have 2 sided needing to be removed from the piece. leaving the round corner and all of the orginal edges. Look at the PSA 8 Waddell in the "handcut" thread. It is nothing more than a cut to size trimmed piece. At least in my eyes as I can plainly see what the original piece looked like.
Edited to add in response to Dan's post above. If you look very carefully at the entire piece above, I believe you will see some factory "fold" marks in the black area, to make folding up the piece a bit easier and this is where the cards were meant to be cut away from the piece. Now obviously the cut away edge might have a little variance according to the abilitys of the cutter, but the remaining sides should be fully intact in order to be graded as an original piece.
This message has been edited by scottbrockelman on May 27, 2007 6:10 PM
What a great discovery. It amazes me that 1) a complete box exists and 2) it took 100 years for the mystery to be solved. It still confounds me that these strip type cards can be given numerical grades since they can be cut to sharpen the corners/edges.
That's interesting for a couple of reasons. First, there are no instructions provided for how to cut and assemble it. Second, if that is the case then the camera and baseball cards have nothing to do with each other; they are really two separate products.
Is it possible you were supposed to hold the baseball cards at one end of the camera and look at them through the little hole, and maybe then have the illusion of the players doing a jig or some such thing? Otherwise, it's a very odd product with unrelated parts.
In my opinion you were to cut out the player photos and then put together the camera. Kids would pretend that they took "snap shots" of the players with their little camera.
edited to add: This box probably came assembled (since it most likely contained candy) and all the kids had to do was open the end flaps of the box and you could tear off the "snap shots" I wish I had my camera with me right now so I could take pics of the box I made from this - all four "Snap shots" are situated at the end flaps and when the box is opened on either end they can be removed easily.
This message has been edited by slidekellyslide on May 28, 2007 1:31 PM
Looking at this piece, I would say:
-First I am not so sure the cutting was ever intended by the product designer. It may have very well been the idea of the consumer and not the manufacturer.
-Second, if I look at the whole piece and want to separate what is the "card" and what is just 'background packaging'.... the white border around the players seems to be the dividing point. The player images have a distinct flat black border around them. After the white border, there is that pattern that can be seen throughout the rest of the piece.
So, I would think if it should be cut - the white line is the cutting line.
I wonder if there are cut marks where hilited... Also, there appears to be a circular mark on that top middle section (old adhesive stain). The cuts would make more sense in folding this box. I'm probably wrong,but a fun challenge.
Dan- here is what I am trying to figure out and you may best be able to answer it since you produced your replica. We know after it's put together it's still not a real camera, because it has no parts (pretty clever observation, don't you think?). So when a kid cut out the baseball cards, folded it properly, and put it together, what exactly did he get? There is hole, and if that hole is punched one should be able to look inside. What would he see? There has to be some logical reason this intricate piece was constructed. So I think it had some use, but I have no clue what that is.
Barry, I don't think it's anthing more than a 5 cent box of candy was meant to be. You open up the box on both ends, remove the candy and the little "snap shots" which are easily torn out, you then close up the box and it's a pretend camera with 4 little "snap shots". It's nothing more than that.
1. I think Dan has it exactly right. The player pix are the exact right size for something that would come out of this "camera". Maybe they fit in one end so you could pretend to pull it out of the camera - not to look in to see it, but pull out a snap shot. To a 6 year old, that's probably a great thing.
2. I don't remember the last time I heard anyone use the word gyp! haha. I'd forgotten about that one.
OK, hang on a second. I have to reset my thinking here.
This box, as far as I can tell, couldn't be folded up into anything in the state shown in the scan. So it couldn't have contained anything - candy or whatever.
If that's the case, why the reference to the FDA?
Were they obtained by the kids like this - in this state? Maybe as a penny toy just to be the camera? And again, why the FDA ref? If it was supposed to contain something, was this one something that was never put to its intended use and just went out the back door of the factory?
To me, unless you cut the side attachments on two of the cards (Birmingham and Mullin as shown in the scan), it could never be folded up. But this one does not appear to be cut. And it's unlikely that all four were detached at the factory and inserted into the camera, because they are found today with either one or two rounded corners as shown in the uncut version above. It seems like if they were factory detached, all four corners would be square. (And the cost of detaching and inserting the four photos would probably be as much as or more than the cost of printing and die-cutting the flat layout.)
Dan - when you folded up your printout, did you have to cut the sides on the two cards, or could the snapshots be folded into the ends with no further cuts than shown in the scan?
Cool cool object. Like someone said upthread, how stunning that the mystery is solved after 100 years. Wow. But still more questions.
Joann, the Birmingham and Mullin cards had to be cut on the edge to make this fold up and I think if you look at Leon's scan very closely it appears that there is a cut there on those cards. Since this item has folds in it, it is possible that this one did contain candy and was not taken out the back door of the factory.
Forget it... I was trying to clarify what was being said, but whatever.
This message has been edited by rhettmyeakley on May 29, 2007 1:22 AM This message has been edited by rhettmyeakley on May 29, 2007 12:45 AM This message has been edited by rhettmyeakley on May 29, 2007 12:43 AM
Excuse my interruption from the NS board. "Privilege to Examine before Purchasing" "Open and Examine before Purchasing" are standard phrases on all early candy boxes. Am 99 percent certain this box held candy at one time. The cards are therefore early candy, package design. What a terrific find.