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blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 7 2007 at 6:46 PM
robert a  (Login caramelcard)

 
Anyone have any cards that have blank fronts, but complete backs?

Please post the front and back if you have one.

Thanks.

Rob

 
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AuthorReply

leon
(Premier Login leonl)
Network 54 Moderator

here's one

June 7 2007, 8:02 PM 

Sorry for the other images...ya take the good with the bad....


 
 

scott brockelman
(Login scottbrockelman)

I have a T209 B&W

June 7 2007, 8:25 PM 

Sorry, no image available at this time.

Scott

 
 

leon
(Premier Login leonl)
Network 54 Moderator

Scott

June 7 2007, 8:29 PM 

Long time no talk to. You feel my T204 blank front is really just the other half of the card, correct? Ramlys were made in 2 halfs and glued together if I remember the conversation correctly....or am I mistaking ?....Have you seen T204s that were pulling apart, from front to back?

 
 

Kevin Saucier
(Login only_child)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 8 2007, 3:03 AM 

Here are just a few:





I have several more and real nice t206's, some t205's and several other brands both vintage to modern. Most are out at a grading company now.


Kevin

 
 

mr. moses
(Login 1880nonsports)

Kevin......

June 10 2007, 4:35 PM 

are these cards you've created like the blanks you showed in a prior thread? I am sort of new to the board. Am I understanding correctly that you investigate and explore card alteration and card anomalies? If that is in fact your mission I applaud you. If not I apologize for the assumption. If you want to respond to my email that's fine or not at all that's fine too. I'm easy going

 
 

John
(Login wonkaticket)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 10 2007, 4:50 PM 

If Kevin did create those I certainly wouldn’t applaud him…if anything I would avoid doing any kind of transaction with him at all costs.

It's kind of odd I never seem to see these come up for auction, in fact in watching auctions for many years I don’t remember seeing many if any of these type cards for sale. So Kevin where did you run across them????

I still can see the silhouette on the T206 is that right????

 
 
Marc S.
(Login schoenen)

John

June 10 2007, 4:59 PM 

<<If Kevin did create those I certainly wouldn’t applaud him…if anything I would avoid doing any kind of transaction with him at all costs.>>

Although I will not presume to speak for Kevin, I would imagine that the cards he has are not for sale. Nor has Kevin ever sold anything deceptively or that he worked on.

Kevin has helped many fellow collectors, including myself, understand various changes a card can go through, and how some of those changes are accomplished. I would whole-heartedly endorse Kevin as an expert in detecting alterations of many sorts, and I very much appreciate all the education he has provided to myself and others over the years.


 
 

John
(Login wonkaticket)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 10 2007, 5:17 PM 

Marc,

First off I’m not saying Kevin is his own print shop I was more taking Henry’s lead and saying if in fact he did make them no need to be proud. Kevin may in fact be the Mother Teresa of the card world helping lost collectors find their way.

However I would be lying if I didn’t say that I was the least bit skeptical of Kevin.

Case in point Kevin has continually told everyone on here how easy these kinds of cards are to make. He has even gone as far to state one should never buy these kinds of printing errors because most are in fact fake. He has even roughly described first hand knowledge of how to make many of the fakes that get passed on us each and every day. I may be the only on here who finds it odd that the vast majority of cards Kevin has shown us are in fact the very types of cards he warns us about and has knowledge of how to create……..

Sorry if that raises my eyebrow a bit. Marc you may know him better and that’s great and if I’ve pegged Kevin all wrong my apologies. But for now I’m sticking with my original view on the topic until I see something that makes me view Kevin and his work differently.

Surely you can respect my view, though you may not agree with it.

Best Regards,

John

 
 

dennis
(Login DCWD)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 10 2007, 5:46 PM 

kevins policy seems to be "show" but don't "tell" how to detect the alterations.

 
 

scott brockelman
(Login scottbrockelman)

Blank fronts, etc

June 10 2007, 5:55 PM 

Leon, yes I believe that card to be the back 1/2 of a 2 part Ramly, 2 part Ramly's were the first to be produced before the more common solid stock most are used. I have about 2 dozen of the 2 part cards, on most the edges which overlap are fairly easy to see with the naked eye. I have seen 1 2 part Ramly with the back adhered upside down. When you see a blank back Ramly that is not one of the 6 square frame fronts chances are nearly 100% it was a 2 part card on which the back was soaked off.

As to Kevin's cards posted, they are probably manufactured as the card stock is rough on the front and not what would normally be seen on any blank front or back card. Would fool very few advanced collectors. He repeatedly tells us the sky is falling, whenever someone produces a print error or other anomoly.

I for one would assert that there is not a glut of homemade errors in the market as he would lead you to believe. I, as many of the older collectors, have sifted through 1000's of cards and finding these errors is almost impossible, but occasionally in an old time collection one pops up.


 
 
robert a
(Login caramelcard)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 10 2007, 6:06 PM 

I'm really not interested in seeing altered cards either.

Does anyone else have any cards that have blank fronts?

I believe Ted mentioned he had a T206 with a piedmont back that had a blank front.

Rob


    
This message has been edited by caramelcard on Jun 10, 2007 6:08 PM


 
 

mr. moses
(Login 1880nonsports)

my wife....

June 10 2007, 6:14 PM 

invented sarcasm. I don't use it as I might confuse myself. I say I applaud him for at the very least enlightening the correct target audience about things that can and probably are being done to alter cards. Period. I wish Clint Eastwood could come around and clean things up. Not everyone wants or needs to share to the same degree that Barry or David R. or others do. The couple of threads I've seen about altered cards and some of Kevin's thoughts by example are interesting and important. If I wasn't so lazy I'd a start a new thread about this. It's probably already been done before so maybe I'm off the hook. I love my hobby. I want to explore the history. I want to protect myself. I want to be an educated consumer. I'll listen to just about anything anyone wants to share on the subject........

 
 

MVSNYC
(Login mvsnyc)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 10 2007, 10:34 PM 

after collecting T206's for nearly 20 years now, and having sorted thru 1,000's of cards, i can safely say that i have never seen a blank FRONT T206...and have only encountered merely a few blank backs.

just sharing my experience.

 
 

Kevin Sacuier
(Login only_child)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 10 2007, 10:35 PM 

These are cards that would never be offered for sale at any price. Interestingly enough I had to turn down several offers just from this one post. Making money from altered cards is not what I do. True, I have never sold a doctored card.

<"If Kevin did create those I certainly wouldn’t applaud him…if anything I would avoid doing any kind of transaction with him at all costs.">


I'm not looking for applause, praise or anything. Just throwing these out to say again, that everyone in this hobby should always think twice before buying print errors, blanks (front or back), or other cards that are outside of the norm. Not saying the sky is falling each time, matter of fact there are some great printers scraps shown on another thread that are far from altered IMO and I'd love to own one.

John, think what you'd like but a transaction with me would all but guarantee the card would not be altered. Also, I'm no Mother Theresa and never claimed to be an expert.

<”I may be the only on here who finds it odd that the vast majority of cards Kevin has shown us are in fact the very types of cards he warns us about and has knowledge of how to create…”>

Well duh. I create them to warn others that they can be made. Be skeptical all you want, makes no difference to me. Just from the pictures above, collectors may now think first before they jump the gun and spend thousands of dollars on a blank front card if it was offered for sale.

As I've always said, I alter in every conceivable way, study the results and pass on (when I can) what I learn. Sometimes that may just be a scan, which I frequently get insulted, accused and criticized for but I don’t care at this point, I’ve become accustomed to it. It would be harmful to all if I started to go into more detail in some instances on a public forum. While I can't tell you what factory or printing press a card came from, I can usually tell if it's been altered in ways others have never even thought of.

For those who care, I do volunteer my services and give step by step instructions in person to a top grader so that he can also detect advanced doctored cards previously not known. One can never stop learning. I also get several cards a week in the mail and/or scans from some of the most knowledgeable collectors, who I deeply admire, requesting an opinion if a card has been altered. To this day I have never charged a penny.

fyi...there is no silhouette and the paper stock is only roughed up on a small portion because that card had paper loss to start. Most of the blank fronts are undetectable...whether you think so or not.

Sorry Mr. Moses I didn't get your email, please try again.


Kevin Saucier


 
 

John
(Login wonkaticket)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 11 2007, 12:04 AM 

“Just throwing these out to say again, that everyone in this hobby should always think twice before buying print errors, blanks (front or back), or other cards that are outside of the norm.”

"John, think what you'd like but a transaction with me would all but guarantee the card would not be altered."

Or at least not that I or anyone else could tell.....

“fyi...there is no silhouette and the paper stock is only roughed up on a small portion because that card had paper loss to start. Most of the blank fronts are undetectable...whether you think so or not.”

Are you saying that the above cards are doctored and not genuine???

If so why show them at all the question I believe was to show legit copies, and those cards off for grading now are they legit??

What’s your point in all this?

1. You want to wow us with your knowledge or allude that you have some amazing insight we fail to have all the while baiting us for an upcoming book?
2. You’re like one of those guys who tells people he’s a spy, when he really works at a Burger King?
3. You make and sell these creations, if not why bother making them….sort of like getting busted making counterfeit money in my basement only to tell the feds I was doing it so I could better spot counterfeit money??

Why must everything be a riddle with you Kevin, its like a freaking episode of Kung Fu…you may think you’re educating us but I for one get more confused with each post you make. I find myself wondering what exactly it is you’re trying to show/teach us….

P.S. Your above post in no way pointed to a bigger picture of beware or had any education purposes to it, it looked like you posted cards you own that were legit in response to the question raised in the post.


    
This message has been edited by wonkaticket on Jun 11, 2007 12:05 AM


 
 

quan
(Login quannimir)

is this a hijack?

June 11 2007, 3:27 AM 


 
 

John
(Login wonkaticket)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 11 2007, 3:40 AM 

Quan...LOL now that's a classic!

 
 
davidcycleback
(Login drc1)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 11 2007, 4:01 AM 

I have 1980s blank front uncut sheets, and I've seen numerous 1980s blank front singles. The singles are usually production errors, like blank backs and upside down backs. Many came from the wax packes. I remember pulling a 1979 Topps blank back from a pack.

 
 

Dylan
(Login EcardCollector)

Re: blank FRONTS for t206 or others?

June 11 2007, 4:17 AM 

Wonkaticket i think your going a bit hard on the guy. I dont know anyone else on this board that has shown the ability to alter cards to the degree Kevin can. Why dont you just run him off the board so we can learn next to nothing from him? Because i guarantdamnT there are others out there just as (or more?) skilled then Kevin altering cards to make a profit. Maybe not obscure alterations like blank fronts, but certainly more subtle things. So why not let him showcase his alterations so atleast there out in the open? Full disclosure is what we all want in this hobby. And you seem to be upset that Kevin shows but doesnt tell you how step by step how to alter cards...well be careful what you ask for... informing graders in private and a bunch of baseball card collecting nuts on an open forum are two different things entirely. Maybe you guys are so quick to jump on his case because he knows how to alter cards and altering cards is BAD! And Wonka your comment stating hes not altering cards as long no one can detect it.. out of line. You dont know Kevin, why do you question his integrity? Because he alters his own cards in his personal collection? How does that have anything to do with me buying a good ole common T206 from the guy? According to you i better run like hell from anycard Kevin lists though right?

 
 
 
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