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1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008 at 2:00 PM

jdrum  (Login hrbaker)

 
Rec'd the Winter 2008 SGC Collector Magazine today with the article on these 6 recently discovered cards. Is it just me but does the photo on the Dazzy Vance card look like Burleigh Grimes instead of Ol' Daz?
Dennis, fair enough. I'm not sure how this will turn out but here's a scan of the magazine photo.
[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by hrbaker on Dec 19, 2008 3:46 PM


 
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Anonymous
(Login DCWD)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 3:23 PM 

not dazzy,he has a unique "look". you are right,does look more like grimes


    
This message has been edited by DCWD on Dec 19, 2008 4:26 PM


 
 
Phil Garry
(Login bcbgcbrcb)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 4:44 PM 

WOW!!! That's an awesome card, who are the other players from that set that have been discovered? That's a new Dazzy Vance RC to go after now........

 
 

jdrum
(Login hrbaker)

Six

December 19 2008, 4:53 PM 

Six cards according to the article; Ruth, Dugan, Heilmann, Gandil, Gleason and Vance. But, I don't think that's Vance. If that's not Grimes I need new glasses for Christmas.

 
 

dennis
(Login DCWD)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 5:08 PM 

interesting that in 1920 (the issue of the cards) vance was not in the major leagues. perhaps he was a big star in the minors?

 
 

boxingcardman
(Login boxingcardman)

what's most likely?

December 19 2008, 5:20 PM 

1. The year is incorrect.

2. The name is incorrect.

I'd say #1. Since Vance had a few games in 1916 and 1918 but didn't even get back to the majors until 1922, I'd guess that the card's year is misattributed.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

 
 

dennis
(Login DCWD)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 5:28 PM 

i too, thought that the year of issue was wrong but gandil was out of baseball by 1920. so this clouds the issue date a little.

 
 

Greg Ecklund
(Login Gecklund311)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 5:51 PM 

That is Grimes for sure, and it is correct that 1922 would seem to be the first year that it would make sense for Vance to be in a card set. Having a supposedly disgraced player like Gandil in a set at that point sounds a little fishy to me...where were these found?

 
 

dan mckee
(Login danmckee)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 6:11 PM 

Are we sure this is a legit original item? Dan.

<spanwww.danmckee.com/pictures/types001.jpg>

 
 
keyway
(Login keyway)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 6:17 PM 

Did you notice that all these cards have a different front. Perhaps their from different years. Frank

 
 
Anonymous
(Login Yomass)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 6:34 PM 

Different years of issue is a possibility. There is more than one version of the offer on the back. The cards are attributed to a company in western Canada which existed in the early 1920s and even though Vance was not in the majors in 1920, he was a regular in the PCL. 1920 is the year that fits based on Gandil's presence (PCL connection as well) and Ruth's appearance as a Yankee.
The Vance card is a different size and could easily have been issued at a later date and the player appears to be in pin stripes (Vance was briefly with the Yankees before 1922).

Why are you sure the picture is of Grimes? Does someone have the actual photo? Is there an early image of Vance for comparison (most of the photos I am familiar with are him as an old man)?

 
 
Paul
(Login PaulPaulPaul)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 6:56 PM 

Can someone post pictures of the remaining cards?

 
 
Rhett Yeakley
(Login rhettmyeakley)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 8:23 PM 

What Dan said.
-Rhett

 
 

jdrum
(Login hrbaker)

Grimes and Vance

December 19 2008, 8:38 PM 

Grimes
[linked image]
Vance
[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by hrbaker on Dec 19, 2008 8:39 PM


 
 

MW
(Login hobby_stump)

Peggy Popcorn cards

December 19 2008, 8:55 PM 

Being one of the few who has held the raw cards in my hands and examined them at length, I can assure both Dan and Rhett that they are legitimate, albeit quite rare or possibly one-of-a-kind, much like many other hobby issues such as the recently discovered 1912 W-UNC Strip cards of Wagner and Young, the 1904 Allegheny "game" cards, the 1888 Gypsy Queen California League card, D303 Mother's Bread, or the Alpha Photo-Engraving Baltimore Orioles.

I should also mention (not sure if it's in the SGC article) that the provenance is interesting in that the cards were originally part of an extensive collection of vintage baseball cards and rare coins that made their way into the hobby through a Canadian coin dealer in the 1970s.

 
 

dan mckee
(Login danmckee)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 9:27 PM 

ok I just got a warm friendly email from Mr. Wentz. So my apologies to the Wentz brothers as I did not know they found them nor have I researched any provenance. I just don't like the looks of the card and all I have is gut feeling and no facts at all on my side. It was just an opinion and God all of you know I have been wrong before. All I have seen was this 1 post and this 1 card. Yes the Alpha's were brought to the Industry in 1992. D303 Mother's Bread has been around since the beginning of time and what 1912 uncataloged W series Wagner did I miss? Can new stuff be found in today's world? Absolutely! Could these qualify as a new neat discovery of a truly vintage item? Absolutely.



Please post the other cards pictures and the backs and the provenance, I would love to educate myself.



I am just stating that I don't like the looks of the card pictured here. I also didn't like the looks of the paper thin Ruth strip card numbered #1 and I was quickly corrected by my good friend Lew Lipset that it was good and has been around forever.



I know this may hurt my fan club but I really don't know everything and am constantly learning as I go. Again, no harm meant to the Wentz brothers who are friends of mine.



Sincerely,



Dan Mckee

edited to remove that damn signature I have for some reason.


    
This message has been edited by danmckee on Dec 19, 2008 9:28 PM


 
 

boxingcardman
(Login boxingcardman)

Just so's we're clear

December 19 2008, 10:20 PM 

I wasn't questioning the cards, just the date attributed to them, based on Vance's name being used. It is most unlikely a guy who was out with a bad arm for a couple of years would have had his name in a set like that. As far as tne northwest/PCL connection, nice idea but doesn't fit the facts. Vance was with Memphis then New Orleans in 1920 when he had an arm injury and an operation. Vance spent 1921 with New Orleans in the Southern Association. Vance went 21-11 in 1921 and was bought by the Dodgers.

Gandil wasn't really disgraced until the summer of 1921, when the Black Sox trial took place. Prior to that he was out of the majors because he could not reach a financial accord with the Sox and went home to California.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

 
 
KBR
(Login KEVINBR)

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 10:27 PM 

Vance was with Sacramento in 1919 after a brief stint with the Yankees in 1918. Not sure when he received his papers from Sacramento, but he was a major cog in their 1919 team and a very popular player.

What type of stock are the cards made out of?

 
 

Dan Bretta
(Login slidekellyslide)
Network 54 Moderator

Re: 1920 Peggy's Popcorn Cards

December 19 2008, 10:50 PM 

I have two photos of Dazzy Vance when he was with New Orleans in 1920-21



Photobucket



Photobucket



These came from his own family photo album...it is my opinion that the card pictured above is NOT Dazzy.


    
This message has been edited by slidekellyslide on Dec 19, 2008 10:56 PM


 
 
Todd Schultz
(Login gotwins)

interesting

December 20 2008, 12:16 AM 

it sure looks alot more like Grimes than Vance to me. Although I never seem to do real well at these face match games, the pose and face look alot like the image used for Grimes in the 1923 W572 set, a trimmed example of which is currently on ebay: (maybe someone can place the scans side by side--it's not in my skill set)
http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-W572-35-Burleigh-Grimes-W-572_W0QQitemZ350140835360QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sports_Cards?hash=item350140835360&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

If it is Grimes, then it's logical to assume that someone used the wrong Brooklyn pitcher for this card, thinking Grimes was Vance. If so, that would date the card to 1922 or later, as they were not teammates before then.

 
 
 
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