In case anyone was interested.

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/article/?p_ArticleId=5475

Best,

Scott

I guess now there really won't be a Monday opening...

I have a feeling that a lot of thier employees are going to end up getting screwed on this deal.

Honestly, why anyone would sell a card in a GAI holder at this point is beyond me.


James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

Although I am no attorney, Chapter 11 suggests a reorganization. GAI needs to apply for TARP 2 and get some bail out money. Seems every other business is getting some.

Warning, if you enter the web page associated with the link above you will see one of the few things (other than PSA) that a few N54 contributors likes to rip into... Wonka used to love to create nice collages in honor of the ripee...

Too bad about GAI. Early on it was interesting to see there slabs then after a short while they were like PRO but with a better reputation. You could see that they were encapsulating trimmed cards but early on they had a lot of people defend them.

They still may try to rise out of the ashes. It's just too bad that the image is a little tarnished.

should the "first graded" examples hold their value since that was when they were the toughest (most accurate)?

No, first graded means nothing, could have been yesterday.


Steve

To me it seems like quite a bit of debt compared to assets. Up to $10 million....Wow!

"estimated assets between $50,000-$100,000 and estimated liabilities of between $1 million and $10 million".

I wish they would just get out if they are having problems, sorry to hear this but sometimes you just have to stop and start over

Jimmy

They had the best grader in the hobby and a loyal customer base among dealers--many of whom followed them over to GAI. This was not enough however

as the execution on a number of fronts was poor.



Joe ought to rehire Mike--another senior grader at PSA would be a good thing. The GAI brand is too tarnished for a restart.

For those who might have been unaware, ebay recently added GAI as one of their "approved" autograph authenticators.
=

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

Global was added to the approved list many years ago. In regards to autographs, they have had a rotating circle of authenticators and who knows who authenticated what at any time. This doesn't mean that eBay isn't afraid to take into consideration the opinions of others in regards to yanking "suspect" pieces. So you could have purchased a piece with a GAI cert a few years ago (that could or could not be good, but there was trust in hand) and you throw it up now, it could very well be pulled from the site as being fraudulent.

After all, Brill did a story a while back about athlete reps complaining about their client's signatures appearing with Global certs.

http://www.thebrillreport.net/2007/06/gai_draws_fire_.html

More importantly, when will SCD go under?

DJ

Jim-

PSA ought to rehire Mike? Do you really think that's going to happen? I hope this isn't another "save my slabs".

"Save My Slabs"?

That sounds like some campy 1970's game show starring Monty Hall.

Dave,

At one time Baker was considered the best grader in the hobby. If he were willing to join PSA as a senior grader(not run grading) and report to Reza I think it would be received well that PSA was enhancing btheir grading capability.

Jim

"More importantly, when will SCD go under? "


Probably right after Coaches Corner stops buying 25-40 pages every 2 weeks.

For historical accuracy, I should mention that at one time I thought that GAI would be one of the three big card grading companies. I had even given thought to crossing my entire collection to GAI if something happened to PSA. Mike came over my house to see my collection and basically quoted me a price that he would to it for free($1 per card for crossover but offset by his grading another 10-20,000 cards for little if any charge. He would set up shop in my basement and grade 35-45,000 cards there. I would then be a spokesman for GAI.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't do.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...but he was the head grader at GAI and presided over the overgrading, trimmed grading, etc., that buried the company. Why he is held in esteem by some when his recent work product is so unimpressive baffles me.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

I don'yt think it was the grading that buried the company, it was the company's customer service and their constant overpromising, underdelivering and failing to meet deadlines. Baker is as good as they come in grading cards and I consider him to be an ethical guy.

Mike Baker:

I sold a card (old judge) on ebay to a fellow board member in a GAI holder that was immediately submitted to SGC and deemed rebacked.

I immediately offered the buyer a refund, contacted Baker and he basically said NO PROBLEM. SEND ME THE CARD, I'LL PUT IT IN AN AUTHENTIC HOLDER. YOU SELL IT AGAIN ON EBAY AND I'LL SEND YOU THE DIFFERENCE. This would mean I didn't lose any money due to GAI's initial error right?

After several MONTHS of me calling, emailing and not hearing from GAI or Mike Baker, I finally got the card back in the new auth holder.

I sold the card again on ebay in the GAI authentic holder, contacted Mike Baker again with the balance so that he could send it to me. I NEVER HEARD FROM HIM AGAIN until I saw him at the National. When I asked him where my money was, he still maintained that he would send me the money within the next month or so.

Of course I never received the money. Of course I'm foolish for trusting him.

The End.

Robert

I have a lot of really nice caramel cards in GAI holders which aren't trimmed, altered or recolored and they match up fairly consistently with the ones I have in SGC holders, grade-wise.
If someone wants to dump any nice caramels in GAI holders, let me know. The guys are GAI were very cordial and helpful but I agree that it was their customer service, or lack thereof, that killed them. I stopped using them before their meltdown and use only SGC now.

Being real Jim, yours has been the lone prolonged voice on this board lauding Mike Baker over and over as one of the 'best in the business' over the last couple years.
That doesn't actually make it so. Certainly his influence over grading standards and consistency was unimpressive at GAI.

I'm personally disappointed in GAI's failure because I belive there was an honest and hard working effort to create another viable grading business, and more choices are always good.

But while many nice cards ended up in GAI holders, so very many of them were grossly graded or flat out misses on condition or tampering it was laughable. I trusted my own eyes to buy the card - not the holder, but to think you considered moving your collection from one standards-questionable company to another even more deficient does not speak well for your trust or understanding.

And in the end, Mike Baker and all else involved sank this ship with a shoddy business plan, no interest in quality standards and a standard set at the least good instead of the being the best.

I agree with part of what you say. I don't think I said I considered moving it. I wanted to have options and I also talked briefly with Dave about crossing the whole thing.

Now THAT would make sense Jim....but somehow I'm guessing you wouldn't get cut the right kind of deal to make it worth your while.
Shame actually, an accurately graded collection like yours minus the suspicion of over-grading that accompanies the PSA cert. would be really something to behold.


All the best
Daniel

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I am happy with the PSA certificate. The market seems to be as well.

Daniel,

I don't keep up with the market for SGC cards that closely but is it your opinion that SGC 88s command a premium to PSA 8s on average 1887-1969(what I collect).

I am not anti-SGC--just that because of the Set Registry on average I think that PSA cards of equal grade would usually get a premium.

Jim

Some people Adam? Looks like only Jim is praising him. My favorite at GAI was Danny, he was always very nice to work with and showed interest. Since Mike was grading it sounds like, I didn't get to converse with him as much. But he did seem like a good guy. Very sorry to hear about the story above, that stinks. Dan.

I think I will be the first to say it, it changes the long held uberhold of PSA prices mythology.....

BUT YES!!!
YES YES YES.

I would suggest keeping an eye on auction house results for SGC material at grades equivalent to PSA's, and that includes 50's and 60's issues. What makes it difficult is that cards can have quite different appearances while graded at the same tier, but my impression over the last 12 months is that SGC has not just drawn even, but pulled past PSA in many sales results for same graded cards. Especially at the higher tiers where the graded populations become sparse.
Unfortunately per the SGC system of grading, their methodology does not translate to mid-80's cards and newer. This is especially egregious in centering, and I wouldn't have anything post 85' outside a BGS holder.

I will go further on the Forum record as saying that in the next ten years prices will continue that trend and that SGC cards will carry a 15-20% premium over PSA material.

It's the same up and coming dream you've hear the last decade. Bargain bulk auction house submissions pump up numbers but where do the cards go. The registries do not lie. They are proof that there are collectors for the product out there. Compare all the major T-Card sets, Goudey, Play Ball, Bowman, Topps. Where are the collectors?

Please Red, registries show but a tiny fraction of collector holdings and sets.
If you've convinced yourself otherwise, you're not following this board or the market place in general too closely.

I left a friends house last week who has 2 tobacco sets less the biggies, many exhibit sets, a signed exhibit set, multiples of most of the Topps sets and an unbelivable memorabilia collection. Some cards had rubber bands loosly around them and you won't find a single slab in that house! God Bless him!! You can't fathom the amount of material that is out there that is not accounted for on the internet by registries or what have you.

jim, i have to disagree with you on this one, they ""are"" out of buisness because of bad grading! i got this mnatle with a set i bought, when i seen it i was not surpised, from 3 feet away you can see the top and bottom trim, uneven as if done in the dark. i cracked it out as use it as a filler. this will never hit ebay and be passed as a nm card. my loss yes, but worth it, doing my very small part, and i was raised right, i could never sell this card like this. but gai had no problem grading it. unless they really stunk, knowing this would be in the population of vintage cards just to make sub. money is very bad. and if mr.baker over seen things like this i would never want him at psa, or sgc, who cares how good he is....

I agree with Dan 100%. There are some old timers out there who have incredible collections of ungraded cards. Maybe no one can match Lionel Carter but there are some real treasure troves around. I know one good friend who has an incredible collection of caramel cards which he purchased in the 70's and 80's which are sitting in a box, all raw, in his attic. There is also a near set of T213-2s in there. He hasn't even checked on them in at least 15 years despite my pleas. He was a caramel card collector when caramel cards weren't cool I remember rolling my eyes at him when we pursued the mid 1950 and 1960 cards and when I first started collecting tobacco cards. I thought he was buying "junk" by grabbing up all those E90-E99 cards. He certainly got the last laugh on all of us.

The Registries do not lie, I can accept that.

But what happens is that folks infer all sorts of meaning and nonsense from that miniscule, inaccurate, and tiny sampling of information. From that comes the lies.


Amen, Dan. LOTS of stuff out there that hasn't seen daylight in ages. Not a slab in sight.

There are three collectors in my town who have unbelievable collections, but do not get cards graded...One of them wanted to sell his cards and I told him he should get the good ones (Mantles) graded and he did...Of course he was not happy with PSA 6 when in his mind his cards were MINT so that was the end of that....and he decided he would just keep his cards.

The other two guys haven't collected in years, but have tremendous collections...mostly 1950s and up. One is VERY anti-grading companies and insists that PSA has ruined the hobby...the other guy is just a quiet guy who goes about his business...I have noticed that he's been breaking his sets up and selling on ebay the last 6 or so months (ebay ID museumoftheodd). I haven't noticed him putting any of his 1930s-60s non sports sets up on ebay though and he really has a tremendous collection of that kind of stuff.

I have many grade cards from GAI. Both Caramels and Tobacco's. Never had a problem with GAI grading or service. To say that cards in GAI holders are worthless is somewhat ignorant. Frank

Just worth less. Plus, I would never buy a GAI card without being able to go over it in person or with a strong return policy from a good dealer; just too many horror stories out there.

Dan: I was being polite. Doesn't suit me, I know.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

Marty, a) you're a good man and b) that is the worst trim job I've just about ever seen. The card looks like it was cut with kindergarten scissors. When GAI re-opens on Monday you should have a talk with them. Oh wait....

I have several T206 HOF's in GAI holders.

Those who have no faith in GAI, what would you do with these?

Would you keep them in their holders? Or would you send them to another authenticator?

Frank L.

Frank, I'd cross them to SGC or PSA. No question that prewar cards in GAI holders are discounted by at least 1/2 to 1 full grade on the open market.

I had 2 cards that I had graded by GAI (purchased), then PSA, then SGC. Both
were graded lower by both SGC and PSA. After that I never trusted GAI again.
Here's one:

Dan, you realize that you now have to crack out that Jennings and send it to Beckett don't you?

I also got the GAI 3 to SGC 30 treatment a couple of times and decided GAI was out. Maybe they overgraded to get business as the upstart 3rd wheel but from a long term perspective, that was not going to work.

I remember their booth at the 2007 National in Clevland and saying to myself that something did not look right just from the type of activity going on. Anyway, if grading is your thing, I would get the cards crossed to Beckett, PSA or SSG. There are not too many ASA holders left.

As per Bruce's post on auction houses going bust, what happens to people's cards that are sitting at GAI?

I have an absolute horror story about these guys and may post later when I have more time.