There is no argument that the Red portrait Cobb was American Lithographic's "signature picture" for its white
bordered T-card sets. This picture of Cobb appears on at least 30 white bordered cards with various Tobacco
advertising backs. But, there appears to be some argument regarding the relative scarcity of its 11 toughest
T206 backs. So, let's run a survey and see what results.









I will start this survey with 2 of my 4 red Cobb cards.

0....BROAD LEAF 460
0....DRUM
0....HINDU (red)
0....LENOX (black)
0....UZIT
1....SOVEREIGN 460
1....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
0....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
0....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
0....CYCLE 460
0....EPDG



OK, guys and gals.....how about running up the numbers.....show and/or tell us about your red Cobb(s) ?

Remember, this survey is not limited to just these 11 backs....any Red Cobb is welcome to this study.


Thanks for your time an effort responding to this survey.


TED Z

when i collected red cobbs, i had:

sov 460
cb
piedmont 42

i no longer own any of these.

piedmont 42 and tolstoi.

American beauty 350 with frame.

I have one Piedmont350-460 Factory 42!

Sweet Cap 350

I had a lenox that I crossed from a GAI 2 holder to an SGC 2 holder. I also own one factory 42 and one carolina brights.

Sovereign 350

i have none...but...it seems there are a lot of pied fact 42's out there...odd?

Of the T206 Cobb Red Portraits that I consider scarce backs I have

On your list:

Lenox (on ebay right now)
Carolina Brights
Piedmont F42

Not on your list:
Broadleaf 460
American Beauty
Cycle 460
EPDG

Broadleaf 460 clearly belongs on the short list. Perhaps at or near the top.

broadleaf, and hindu's should be at the top.

I would say that a Cobb Hindu Red or Black is more difficult to find than a Lenox or Uzit. Just my thoughts after looking for a Cobb hindu for a few years

just a good ole regular Piedmont 350 that i'll never part with,Ted.

best,

barry

Great thread Ted.

Have a Sweet Cap 350 back, fac. 25. Frank A.

1st....As I've already stated, the BROAD LEAF 460 is not on the list because there is no debate that
it is absolutely the scarcest. Anyhow, I doubt that more than 2 examples would be reported here.

2nd....This survey was mainly prompted by a discussion regarding the relative scarcity of this Cobb
with DRUM, LENOX, Red HINDU and UZIT backs. I added the CAROLINA BRIGHTS, PIEDMONT 460/42
and the SOVEREIGN 460 to this survey because I feel that these 3 are also quite scarce. But, since
some have requested here, I now have added AMERICAN BEAUTY 350, CYCLE 460 and EPDG backs
to this survey.

OK, get this straight....the order that the backs are listed here has no relation to their scarcity......
that is what we are trying to determine from this survey.

Updated survey......

0....DRUM
0....HINDU (red)
2....LENOX (black)
0....UZIT
2....SOVEREIGN 460
6....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
3....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
2....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
1....CYCLE 460
1....EPDG


Good start, guys; but, we need a lot more inputs to get an accurate sampling. Where are all the Red
Cobb's that I know are out there in Net54-land ?


TED Z

Ted,
Here are the T206 Cobb, red, cards that I have:
American beauty 350 with frame
Carolina brights
Cycle 460
Old Mill
Piedmont 350, factory 25
Piedmont 350-460, factory 42
Polar Bear
Sovereign 350
Sovereign 460
Sweet Cap 350, factory 30
Sweet Cap 350-460, factory 30
Sweet Cap 350-460, factory 42 with overprint
Tolstoi
T213 Coupon, type 2

Good luck with the survey.
Art

UPDATED survey....4/3/09....adding Art's inputs and an email from a Net54 reader.

0....DRUM
1....HINDU (red)
2....LENOX (black)
0....UZIT
3....SOVEREIGN 460
7....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
4....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
2....CYCLE 460
1....EPDG


So far, only 24 inputs......it would be nice to get 100+ responses.

This is a very popular card, how about it Net54er's, tell us of your Red Cobb (s) ?


TED Z

Golly, Ted... you asked to hear about my red portrait Cobb. I have one, the only one I've ever had in the white border set. It isn't on you're list, because it's common I reckon... Piedmont 350-460 factory 25. Now I've told you about my red Cobb, as asked!!

Mine's also not on your list, Ted.

Sweet Caporal 350-460 with overprint.

You have a T206 Cobb (bat off shoulder) with a rare back that NONE of the Red Cobb collector's have (and will never have).

An AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back....and, I know you are very proud of this card

Regards,

TED Z

I have a Sweet Cap 350, Factory 30. Not rare.

Nobody asked but my green portrait is an Old Mill Factory 25. Also not rare.

But they are two of my favorites and, although I've sold almost all of my T206s, I can't seem to part with these.

------------------------------
MY COLLECTION: http://www.rustywilly.com/MYCOLLECTION.htm

I have one red Cobb. It has an Old Mill back.

Wow 7 P42s. That is an impressive hoard of those toughies....

Hi Ted,

I have a Piedmont Factory 42 and a Polar Bear.

Craig

Thanks for all your inputs, guys. Also, I have received 6 emailed inputs from Net54 readers.
I'll tally up the data and post an updated list later tonite.

For you guys who have posted your Cobb's with backs other than these 10 scarcest ones,
I appreciate your inputs and near the end of this survey these backs will also be tallied.

We are on a roll here, keep the inputs rolling in. We can't have enough Red Cobb's....can we ?


TED Z

Ted, since you are doing an overall tally as well my Red Cobb is a Piedmont 350, as I suspect many others are as well.

The most often seen backs on the Red Cobb's are......

PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25

SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30

POLAR BEAR



TED Z

Thanks guys and 6 inputs emailed from Net54 readers.

UPDATED survey....4/4/09

0....DRUM
1....HINDU (red)
3....LENOX (black)
0....UZIT
3....SOVEREIGN 460
9....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
3....CYCLE 460
2....EPDG


OK, we have 32 total inputs....we need a lot more data points here in order to arrive at some valid conclusions.

Check-out your Red Cobb's and tell us about them ?


TED Z

Probably no surprise but I have a Cycle 460. I have noticed that people posted about cards they once owned, are they being counted?

Lee

HI Ted,
You can put me down for a Piedmont 350/460 25/2.

Thanks,
Rick

Thanks for your CYCLE 460 input.....I rarely see a Red Cobb with this back.

All inputs are being tallied....even if you do not have your Red Cobb, anymore.


TED Z

Ted, I have 1 with a polar bear back for your survey

Ted: I have a Red Cobb with Old Mill back (per my e-mail last night).
DMcD

Ted,

My Red Cobb has a Tolstoi back. Bill

Thanks for all your inputs. The daily update will be posted as soon as I can sort out the 5 emails
that I received on this subject from Net54 readers.

TED Z

UPDATED survey....4/5/09

Scarcest group......

0....DRUM
1....HINDU (red)
3....LENOX (black)
0....UZIT
3....SOVEREIGN 460
9....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
4....CYCLE 460
2....EPDG

Next group......

2....TOLSTOI
4....OLD MILL
2....SOVEREIGN 350
2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
2....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
6....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
7....POLAR BEAR


OK, we have 61 total inputs....we need a lot more data points here in order to arrive at some valid conclusions.

Check-out your Red Cobb's and tell us about them ?


TED Z

Put me down for a Piedmont fact 25 and a Tolstoi.

Thanks JACK G for your input. And, there are 4 more inputs from Net54 readers.





UPDATED survey....4/6/09

Scarcest group......

0....DRUM
1....HINDU (red)
3....LENOX (black)
0....UZIT
3....SOVEREIGN 460
9....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
4....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
4....CYCLE 460
2....EPDG

Next toughest group......

2....SOVEREIGN 350
0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
4....TOLSTOI
4....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
2....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
6....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
4....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
7....POLAR BEAR


OK, we have 68 total inputs; but, we need a lot more data points here in order to arrive at some valid conclusions.

Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards.....check-out your T206's and post them here ?


TED Z

Ted, I'll post mine tonight. Also, this survey cannot be complete until the carpet guy from Michigan chimes in after he's done rioting after basketball tonight. He's the Nelson & Bunker Hunt of red Cobbs.

still looking forward to seeing your Cobb's


TED Z

Mine has a Polar Bear back.

cycle 350
2 sweet caporal 30 NY

Piedmont 350 factory 25

Sweet Caporal 350 Factory # 30.

picked up 4 red Border Cobbs today

three are 350/460 25/2
the other is Old Mill Factory 25/2nd district

Thanks guys for posting your Cobb's and thanks to all the Net54 readers that've contacted me.





UPDATED survey....4/7/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..0....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..4....CYCLE 460
..2....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..3....SOVEREIGN 350
..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..5....TOLSTOI
..7....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
10....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
..9....POLAR BEAR


OK, we have 96 total inputs.....but, we need many more data points in order to arrive at some
valid conclusions.

Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards....hop onto this bandwagon
and add your Cobb to this list. Who will be the first to reach the 100th input ?



TED Z

Ted,

You are a pro at front back variations....what's the deal with 10 factory 42s -- seems way out of line with that back's perceived scarcity.

Cycle 460

1st....the 10 red Cobb's reported (so far) with PIEDMONT 460 Fac. 42 do not surprise me in the least.
If we were to get a lot more participation in this survey (at least 200 inputs), we would get a more
realistic perspective. And, the 10 red Cobb's with P460/42 backs would not seem out of line.

2nd....in a P460/42 survey that I ran last November, the six super-prints (this red Cobb is one) were
more often reported with P460/42 backs than other 350/460 subjects. Furthermore, I have a theory
why this Cobb is found with many P460/42 backs. The PIEDMONT brand was very popular in the South-
east, so American Litho. printed up many red Cobb's at the tail end of the PIEDMONT run and shipped
them to Durham, NC (Factory 42) to be inserted into the L&M PIEDMONT packs.

3rd....Finally, In recent years, P460/42 cards have been sought after much more so than in the past.
The 1st T206 set that I put together back in the 1980's had 4 - P460/42 cards in it....that I was not
even aware of. Simply, because this back was seldom seen (most collectors were unaware of it).

When Bill Heitman published The Monster in 1980, Red HINDU backed T206's were virtually unknown.


TED Z

Hi Ted

My red Cobbs
sweet cap 350..30
tolstoi

Drew

Sweet Cap 350 / factory 30

Ted; I am not reporting another Cobb, but pulled my card out to check the factory number again. It is a Sweet Cap factory 25, 350 back. Are these for some reason scarce, as I see all others are fac 30

The Red Cobb is not often seen with a Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 25 (VA) back.

And, it is less seen with a Sweet Caporal 460 Factory 25 back.

I'm not sure why this is so....as the Factory 30 (NY) versions of both these Sweet Caps are very plentiful.


TED Z

I have a red back Cobb (PSA 3).....Piedmont


It's a 350/460 back, factory 25/dist. 2.


Edited to include t-brand.

You left out the T-brand on your " xx 460 Fac, 25 " Cobb ?


TED Z

Thanks BOB, DREW, SCOTT and ERIK for your Cobb inputs and thanks to two Net54 readers
that have contacted me with their inputs.




UPDATED survey....4/8/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..0....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..2....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..3....SOVEREIGN 350
..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
..7....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
11....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
12....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
..9....POLAR BEAR


OK, we have 102 total inputs.....but, we still need many more data points in order to arrive at
some valid conclusions.

Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards....hop onto this bandwagon
and add your Cobb(s) to this list.

Hey JEFF L....where are all these Cobb's you have ?


TED Z

included above come from a collector? If so, you might want to add in the example that is in REA to your population.

The Red HINDU recorded in the survey list is the one from the current REA auction.


TED Z

Piedmont 350................add one for that Cobb.

I have a Sweet Caporal 350-460 overprint

Keep up the good work, Ted.

Received 11 more inputs, since I've been "computer-less"....so, here is the updated tally for anyone still interested.




UPDATED survey....4/15/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..0....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..2....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..3....SOVEREIGN 350
..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
..9....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..3....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
12....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
14....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
10....POLAR BEAR


We have a total of 113 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some meaningful conclusions.


Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.


Hey Jeff Lichtman......we are still waiting to see all your Red Cobb's....are you hoarding them ?


TED Z

Ted, glad to see you again! We tried all that we could to lure you out of hiding on the new board -- to no avail!

I've got a single red Cobb and it's a lowly Piedmont 350, factory 25.

Hi Ted,

Last nite a T213-1 Red Cobb ended on ebay. I know you believe the Type 1 Coupons should be part of T206, so I thought you might like to be aware of it. (I tried a snipe of $1200, but obviously I got blown out of the water!) Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120401023810

Add another Old Mill to your list.

I saw your's and John W's "lures"....as soon as I can get the software to enable my computer with it's new Hard Drive
to work with my scanner....I will "blow you guys out of the water" with my T206 Cobb.


Incidently, I must say, I'm disappointed that you did have some "exotic" Red Cobb's


TED Z

Craig,

I bid on the T213-1 Cobb as well, but couldn't make myself go any higher. The paperloss killed it for me & the top edge definately looked trimmed. Still a nice card, though.

I'm not going to add this "baby" to the survey list....lest I'll get grief from the " Burdick
can't be wrong" crowd....and, who do I think I am to question him ?

Thanx for bringing this 1910 Coupon to my attention.






TED Z

Hi Ted,
Here are my Red Cobb's.....

1 Carolina Brights
1 Polar Bear
1 EPDG
1 Old Mill
1 Sovereign 350
1 Piedmont 460 42
1 Sweet Cap 460 25
1 Piedmont 350
1 Sweet Cap 460 30

Be well Brian

Ted funny you should say exotic Cobb's Jeff and I just purchased all these. All of the backs are Red Hindu....

Thanks ole buddy......9 - Red Cobb's......now, that is really impressive.

We might get to 200 cards, yet.

Best regards, Brian.

TED Z

Your array of 7 pastel colored Cobb's are a pretty sight to see......However, check-out my 2 extraordinary
UZIT Cobb's......

The "exotic-ness" of these two Cobb's certainly trump your 7 Cobb's....






American Litho. must of thought Cobb was brandishing his "weapon" on this one and printed him with their
T80 series.


T-Rex TED

LMAO...Ted Cobb always said baseball was like war.

Anyone have a guess as to how many red Cobbs (including all backs) exist? Probably an easier question is, how many red Cobbs have been graded, all companies included?

Bruce,

PSA shows they have graded 1093. SGC shows 303.

Edited to add - I'll check with GAI on Monday.

Ted,

I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu....In the years that I've been collecting the different Cobb backs, I've seen more EPDG, Lenox, Cycle and Uzits than even a normal Hindu Cobb.

Brian E.

Is the Red Cobb the most graded card at PSA and SGC?

Dave,

That's a pretty broad question. I don't think either company makes that info searchable in their database.

Ted,

I have two, both Sweet Cap 350 Factory 30.

I don't know how we can establish a grand total population of how many Red Cobb cards exist.
Grading Co. POP reports are at best misleading (due to constant churning of re-grading). And,
there are still many old dinosaurs like me who have ungraded Cobb's (currently, I have 4 such
Red Cobb's).

Then there are (by my count) 30 different Red Cobb's....24 T206's, Ty Cobb back, 1910 Coupon,
T213-2, T213-3, T214 and T215....which complicates any true count of this Subject.

Here is what we do know......in two independent T206 surveys totalling over 40,000 cards, the
Red Cobb out-numbers all other T206 Subjects (except the 5 other Super-Prints) by a factor of
approx. 2 to 1. The closest Subjects were guys like Johnson (portrait) and Joss (pitching). From
these surveys, Johnson's sample was 110 cards and Joss' sample was 124 cards....while the Red
Cobb's sample was 196.


TED Z

You noted......
"I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu...."

Are you alluding to the Brown HINDU back ?

I don't think you are, because the Brown HINDU back exists only in the 150/350 Series of T206's.
The Red Cobb was printed in the 350/460 Series; and therefore, can never be found with a Brown
Hindu back.


TED Z

Thanks JEFF L, BRUCE M, BRIAN W, JIM VB and a Net54 reader for your inputs.





UPDATED survey....4/16/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..0....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
11....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..4....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
11....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
16....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
11....POLAR BEAR


We have a total of 127 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some
meaningful conclusions.


Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.





TED Z

Ted -

Here is a drum. Not mine, but wish it was.

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&lot_qual=

I was aware of this Cobb when the Hunt find was reported.

But, I didn't input it, hoping that some one here would provide a scan.


Thanks again,

TED Z

Thanks to Richard and 4 emails responses from Net54 readers, we have 6 more inputs.


TED Z

UPDATED survey....4/20/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..1....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..4....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
11....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
20....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
11....POLAR BEAR


We have a total of 133 inputs.....it doesn't look like we'll attain the 200 figure that I hoped for.
Anyhow, we are 2/3 rds of the way there, and that will do for now.


If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

And, the only T206 back that has not been reported is the UZIT....does any one have one ?


TED Z

I have a Piedmont 460 Factory 25.

GLYN....thanks for your PIEDMONT 460/25 input.

Also, I received a Net54 reader's email input with a TOLSTOI back.





Here's my UZIT red Cobb.....it's too bad that it's my gimmicked-up fake. Otherwise, if real, it would
be a really unique error that would command big $$$$$$.
Actually, I'm surprised that such printing mistakes haven't been found, since American Lithographic
was printing these Red Cobb's and the T80 Military men cards, simultaneously, in early 1911.

In any event, still looking for a Red Cobb with a UZIT back to confirm its 24 different T206 backs.

Or, any other Red Cobb's will do ?


TED Z

I have one red Cobb.

It has an Old Mill back.

Hi, Ted. I agree completely with you about resubmissions and ungraded cards owned by old farts like me. I was surprised, though, by how many have been graded, even accounting for resubmissions.

ted,you can add a sweet caporal 350 factory #30 to the list.

You can add another Piedmont 460 factory 25 to the list.

One more Piedmont 350 factory 25 can be added to the list.

Brian

Thanks for bringing up this subject again. I have given this some thought and I think we can extrapolate and arrive at
an educated guess to answer your original question. Let's do a little math here......

Let's assume that this random survey of 40,000 T206 cards is valid. It yielded 196 red Cobb's......and, an over all ave-
rage (OAA) of 78 each of the other 509 T206's.

40,000/509 T206 Subjects = OAA of 78 T206's.....509 = 524 - (the Big 6, 6-Super Prints, Dahlen, Elberfeld, Lundgren)

40,000/196 = a red Cobb per every 200 cards


Red Cobb/OAA = 2.5 red Cobb's per any other 509 Subjects

Simply stated, the Red Cobb lies somewhere between a Double Print and a Triple Print.


Furthermore, Scot Reader, in his book "Inside T206", has a chapter on the "survivability" of the T206 cards. If I recall
correctly, he estimates approx. 1 to 2 Million cards. I think Scot's estimate is a good one.

So, if we divide 1 Million T206's by 200, it yields 5,000 red Cobb's. This number might sound high; and, I'm sure I'll be
challenged on this population #.....but, that's my best guess.


Best regards,

TED Z

Thanks....TODD....GIL....JEFF....BRIAN....for your Red Cobb inputs.

I'm going to visit an old hobby friend tonite who has a huge T206 collection (all ungraded), which includes 8 red Cobb's.

So, I will be upgrading this survey late tonite or tomorrow with at least 14 new inputs.



TED Z

Polar Bear for me.

Ted,

Your survey is very interesting.

It would be nice to know how many of the cards sampled have been graded.

Most of my card collection is ungraded.


Wonka - Love that yellow and purple Cobb !

Keep up the good work !

Sovereign 350

Here is my only t206 Cobb... I'm bringing it to The National this year.

nice Drum Cobb !!!

Danno - why are you bringing that to the national? To give to me?

btw, in case you didn't hear, rare back / common front Cobb's are overrated.

Rmann- You know I don't care too much for Cobb cards or rare backs, except for this one and the one you have.

You asked how many of these Red Cobb's have been graded....I'll see if I can post that info tomorrow.


TED Z

UPDATED survey....4/22/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..8....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..5....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
13....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
18....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
23....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
14....POLAR BEAR


OK, we have a total of 151 inputs.....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 3/4 ths
of the way there, and it's looking better.


If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have one ?


TED Z

Ted:

Some observations from looking at the data, all obvious, but interesting nonetheless.

1)The Piedmont 460/42 and Old Mill seem to be candidates for "easier" status.

2)The Sweet Cap 460/42's also seem pretty tough. In fact, with one exception Sweet Cap backs taken individually seem scarce in relation to many other backs.

3) There does not seem to be nearly as many of each of the "easy" backs as I would have thought. I suspect under-reporting is the cause of this.

4) When looked at as 4 groups, the distribution flattens out some. I may be off by a couple but get the following out of 149 backs reported:

All Piedmont: 49 or 32.9%
All Sweet Cap: 30 or 20.1%
All OM/Sov/PB: 31 or 20.8%
All Other backs: 39 0r 26.2%

Piedmont has the most as expected, but the other three groupings as a whole are pretty close. Based upon overall ppn. of all Piedmonts to all backs, there should be a lot more Piedmonts out there yet to be reported.

This may be a stupid question, but why no 150 backs on this list.

Ted,

I didn't recheck these, but I pulled them about a week or so back.

Graded red Cobbs:

by PSA:

American Beauty.......10
Carolina Brights......4
Cycle.................1
EPDG..................4
Lenox.................2
Old Mill..............19
Piedmont..............90
Polar Bear............36
Sovereign.............13
Sweet Cap.............109
Tolstoi...............5
Ty Cobb...............1
Unknown...............800

PSA Total.............1093



by SGC:

Unknown...............303

Dave

There is no doubt about it, the Piedmont 350 Fac 25 and Sweet Cap 350 Fac 30 red Cobb's have been under-reported.
I think this may be due to most collectors on Net54 go for the tougher backs. A more random sampling would most like-
ly result in many more of these two easier backs.

Frank

The red Cobb was printed and issued in the 2nd (350) series of T206 set in 1910. And, then was further printed and is-
sued in the 460 Series in late 1910 and 1911. Perhaps, you are thinking of the Green Cobb which was issued in the 1st
(150) series in 1909.


TED Z

a black Lenox and an American Beauty

Hey Frank A....

As I understand it, the white border tobacco cards were issued in a progression of series and brands. The series are somewhat obvious, the brand aspect isn't quite so obvious. Series 150 first, then 350, and last was 460.

Green portrait cards and bat on shoulder (gray cap) Cobb cards were in series 150, and carried over into 350. Red portrait cards and bat off shoulder (black cap) Cobb cards first appear in series 350, and they continue into series 460.

Ted Z can expand on this, no doubt. Scot Reader's great publication would help, too.

I could not have said it any more succinctly than you did.


TED Z

My calculation estimates that there are approx. 5000 red Cobb cards in circulation.

The Graded POP report you posted shows 1400.....where are all the other Cobb's ?

Yes, there's guys like me that do not get my cards Graded.....I have 4 red Cobb's.
And, I know of about 40-50 T206 collections that are un-graded with Cobb's.

I am sure there are many more such T206 collections; but, we have to go a long,
long way to come up with the difference.

Any suggestions....besides saying my calculations are exaggerated ?


TED Z

I can see you parting with the AMERICAN BEAUTY Cobb....but, why didn't you keep the LENOX ?

Let me guess....you got an offer for it that you couldn't refuse ! !

So, what back(s) is(are) on the Red Cobb(s) in your current set(s) ?


Hey DAN....email me....tedzan11@comcast.net


TED Z

Interesting question Ted. I certainly don't know the answer. You would think that more than 28% of the red Cobbs would have been graded by now. Maybe not though.

Seems likely that several of them would have been resubmitted... As difficult as it will be for us folks here to accept, there are lots of collectors who either know not, or care not, about this board, the cards those folks have would remain unconsidered in this analysis.

FRANK W and JIM VB

I would estimate the population of T206 collectors (and Ty Cobb collectors) are in the 1000's.....worldwide.
Many of them are old "dinosaurs" (like me) that have collected these T-cards for 4 (or more) decades. And,
have no interest in having them Graded.

I have very few graded cards in my various sets (1887-1987). However, I do get Sports cards graded for the
purposes of selling them. All that said, I'll apply my old axiom here...."we live in a 1/3 rd world"....therefore, if
1400 red Cobb's are Graded. Then, I speculate that there are another 2800 that are ungraded.

And, I don't think the converse (1400 graded while only 700 are ungraded) is true.

Also, no one has come up with how many Red Cobb's are Graded by Beckett, GAI, etc., etc. ?

Anyhow, just offering my 2 Drachma's to this discussion.


T-Rex TED

Beckett has graded 64 red Cobbs. I don't think GAI has a pop report that you can access -- at least I can't find one. I suspect the number would be rather small.

Sorry for my slow response to this thread. I have two T206 red Cobbs: SC 350 Factory 30 2nd Dist. NY, and Ty Cobb brand back.
JimB

Thanks for your inputs....you have motivated me to add all 30 white-bordered Red Cobb's to this survey.


TED Z

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON back
..0....T213-2
..0....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215


T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....4/24/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..9....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..5....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
13....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
23....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
27....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
16....POLAR BEAR


OK, we have a total of 164 inputs.....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 82%
of the way there, and it's looking better.

If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.


And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have this one ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I'll continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.





Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....



TED Z

Please note that I have expanded this survey to include all 30 backs of the Red Cobb card.

I am now taking Red Cobb inputs from these 6 additional white-bordered issues....as well as the 24 - T206 backs.

1910 COUPON
T213-2
T213-3
T214
T215

and the unique TY COBB back


Thanks for your participation in this over all survey.


TED Z

I've received two T213 red Cobb inputs and 4 - T206 red Cobb inputs.





..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215


T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....4/25/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
13....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
23....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
29....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
16....POLAR BEAR


We have a T206 total of 168 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 84% of
the way there, and it's looking better.

If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.


And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have this one ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I'll continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.





Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....



TED Z

One more round on this survey....let's see how many more red Cobb's can be reported.

Since the last update (a week ago), I have received several emails reporting these T206 red Cobb's......

CYCLE 460
PIEDMONT 350
OLD MILL
POLAR BEAR
SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42


TED Z

Hi Ted,

I have a Cobb red background with a Piedmont 350.

Thanks guy for your input. I will tally it shortly, along with 7 new inputs.


TED Z

Adding the the 7 new inputs from prior posts and one more new input.





..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215


T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....4/30/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
14....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
25....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
31....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
17....POLAR BEAR


We have a T206 total of 176 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 88% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.



And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT....does any one have this one ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.





Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....



TED Z