I either have missed comments on this or it has gone without comment yet but REA is auctioning one of the Premiums and has the story of why Adams-Pepsin Tutti Frutti Gum issued it as their parent bought Colgan's right at the time of marketing and issue. So far as I know this is the first time the premium has been identified.

What do you all think?

We had a thread on this quite some time ago. I think the board consensus was that no one had ever seen a Colgans premium identified as such. If they existed, then they probably had no markings to identify them as a Colgan's premium. I guess we were wrong!

Jeff

can someone post a scan or a link??

Thanks

FW

Sorry, I accidentally edited out the link when I was typing the original post:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=11828

I remember the older threads discussing the rarity of the premiums. When I went to REA, I was surprised at how "low" the bidding was on it at this point. So many more "common" items are through the roof already.

It will be interesting to see where it ends up. Cool team shot.

I remain a bit skeptical on the item, despite the links brought up about the two products both being owned by the same parent company. It just doesn't quite add up to me, but I respect Rob's opinion to believe this to be the Colgan's premium.
-Rhett

I'm with Rhett... I don't think that this photo would be what was contemplated by the Tin-Top offer. If it had Auto-Sales on it I'd think it more likely.

FW

I have an old piece of Adams Tutti Frutti gum. Not sure why the photo in REA is considered a Colgan's premium...seems a bit of a leap of faith is expected here.



And oddly enough I found this in with stuff my great grandmother saved all from the same era which included a Colgan's tin with gum in it and an Ornate pin (non baseball)

Here is an ad on the back of an E270 tin top.... I am not sure how much of a leap of faith the picture is since it is exactly what is said on the back and from the same mfg?

edited to add that I also agree with the write up REA did...and it seems logical to me.

There is a great Colgan's Chip article in the new Old Cardboard (#19). Well worth seeking out and the premium gets a nod too.

Time will probably prove me wrong, and it won't be the first time. This very well could be the thing they are describing on the backs of the cards, but it just seems wierd to me that there would be different products advertised.
-Rhett

While I wouldn't bet my collection on it; all evidence points towards this being the piece advertised on the reverse of the E270's.

Autosales was attempting to form a monopoly and was either buying or signing contracts with gum and candy companies to market products in their vending machines. History shows that Colgan's was phased out within a couple years after being bought by Autosales.

The advertisement on the premium for Adam's was most likely used to market a brand of gum that Autosales felt would be more successful in the future.

You guys may all be right, I'm just saying there is some leap of faith here when there is no solid evidence. Which there isn't. Either way it's clear the item is a premium, and a very cool one at that.

I very much enjoyed John Spano's article in OC (I assume that it is John S. who posted above), and wasn't even aware of the 208 backs. I did, however, notice something that didn't seem correct. You stated that Colgan's were 1 7/16" in diameter, or about the size of a silver dollar. But they are of course smaller than that, about the size of a quarter. Otherwise, it was a terrific article.

I didn't realize the OC was already sent out. Anyways, the cards are 1-7/16".
-Rhett

Here are a few of the 208's...

Rhett- unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, they are smaller than a silver dollar (but they are bigger than a quarter, I am wrong).

Barry, they are almost the exact same size as a silver dollar.

I am shocked. I will have to see it to believe it (I do believe you, but a silver dollar seems huge to me).

I was looking at the checklist on the Old Cardboard site and for what it's worth I can confirm the existence of Unglaub (Lincoln) in the E270-1 Red Border set.

Barry,
By chance are you thinking of a 50 cent piece? Those are quite a bit bigger.

Dan, the bulk of that confirmed checklist is from my personal database that I sent to Lyman, so there are quite a few not on that list that do exist, I just wanted to make sure there was no difference between the red border or Tin Top and the E254 before adding it to my confirmed checklist. An example is the Nap Rucker E254 has horizontal name & team while the E270 has a vertical team and name, a slight difference that was uncharted (much like Leon's Evans--his E254 has a Horizontal name). We are just trying to be as conservative as possible and trying to weed out any errors or mistakes that may have been perpetuated over the years, so we are relying on photo prrof before adding them to the checklist.

I know Larry Frisch was pretty fanatical about the Colgan's issue and presumably had all the Reds in the book as he could only not confirm the Cravath that had been on older checklists. Since then, I have owned or seen at least 5-6 additions to the known checklist, all of which are on the Old Cardboard site.

-Rhett

Sorry, nm.

Here's the E254 and E270-1 Unglaub (Lincoln) for comparison...big difference in cropping.

Well here's a silver dollar, a half dollar, a tin lid, regular Colgans
card, and a red border card...

The silver dollar won't fit inside the lid. The cards' diameter is greater than that of the half dollar.

Dan, there will be a lot of cropping differences between the 2 sets, but here is an example (Hughes seen below) of where there is a big difference...

Hughes:


Som other E254's w/ their Red counterparts...

Rhett, thanks for the info...I'm wondering have you heard of an Unglaub (Lincoln) in the Tin Tops set?

Dan, according to Lipset there is a Unglaub (Minneapolis) in the Tin Top set, but I have never seen it to confirm that.
-Rhett

Edited to add: The Red Border set while the most striking of the 3 sets is by far the most boring in terms of new players. With few exceptions, the E270 Red Borders are just reproductions of E254's with the new border. Only 2 "new" players have been found that were not produced as E254's beforehand, and they are both Louisville players Red Fisher & John Sullivan (see below). Other than those 2 the only major changes occur on those with their name & team on chest like the Hughes above, the Cobb, and I know I have seen a Murch with that type of set-up but it was years ago and I never wrote down the team he was with, I'm pretty sure Tom Boblitt won it on ebay but like I said it was many years ago. Anyways, that is the skinny of the Red Borders...

Here are the newbie's that are not found on a E254...

David: you started a timely and interesting thread. Issue #19 with John Spano's article was just leaving the printer when you started the thread on the 15th.

I'd like to thank John for writing the article and providing a nucleus of E254 scans for the Colgan's gallery on the website. With considerable input from Rhett, Mark Macrae, Tom Boblett and others, we now are missing only three of the 289 E254 cards in the gallery. Thanks again for input from all.

Dan: thanks for the scan of the Unglaub-Lincoln Red Border. We have now updated the Checklist on the website to show the card as confirmed.

The Combined Colgan's checklists at http://www.oldcardboard.com/e/e2/e254-270/e254-270.asp?cardsetID=770 are still a work in progress. As Rhett stated, there has been some doubt and confusion about the confirmation of some of the Red Borders and Tin Tops. As can be seen in the Combined Colgan's checklist, we are re-confirming all cards in both of these sets. A "?" in the checklist indicates that the card has not been recently confirmed by collectors. If you have one of these cards, please send a scan of the card (Red Border or Tin Top only) to me or post on this thread. The result will be a better validated hobby checklist.

Barry: Glad you liked John's article. The above contributors are also acknowledged in the article but again warrant special recognition.

Thanks again to John and all contributors,
Lyman

PS: As David points out, John's article includes a side panel with a discussion about the REA Premium.

Bill Haber had a bunch of E254s. I had telephone conversations with him
about cards, years ago. I always wanted to talk about T206s, he about
E254s. He was always wanting to know who I had, and if I had any new
ones. He wanted one of every E254 out there.

Anyway, anyone know what happened to his cards, specifically his E254s??

My understanding is that Mr. Lipset deferred to Mr. Haber's thoughts and
incorporated them into that section of the Encyclopedia. And that is the
source for what we find in the Standard Catalog and Beckett's today.

Frank,

When I started collecting E254's in the early 90's I remember his name being mentioned along with Larry Fritsch regarding Colgan's. I would assume that they knew (or knew of) one another. Maybe Larry absorbed his collection?

Here is scan I just emailed Lyman on a few days ago, as I did not see this card in the Old Carboard or Lipset Checklist. Harry Welchonce, split time between Nashville and Atlanta in 1912 and was the Southern League Batting Champ in 1912 & 1913.

I believe I have seen Welchouce(sp) listed in a checklist for Atlanta, but not for Nashville.



~ Jeremy ~