I personally prefer SGC because of their black holders and reputation in the pre-war marketplace. I respect PSA quite a bit based on the size and following of their registry - but hate their holders! I'm curious what the board thinks - how will crossing these cards over to SGC impact their value? Does the fact that PSA has the largest registry add a premium to their pre-war graded cards relative to SGC? I look forward to your (let's assume they crossover to the same grades):

N162 Goodwin Champions Cap Anson PSA 4
1909 T206 Sweet Caporal Frank Chance (Portrait) PSA 4
1914 Cracker Jack Bill Carrigan PSA 2
1909 E90-1 Amer Caramel George Mullin PSA 4
1909 T206 Piedmont Ray Ryan PSA 4.5
1909 T206 Sweet Caporal Rube Waddell (Portrait) PSA 5
1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel Eddie Plank PSA 4
1909 T206 Sweet Caporal Willie Keeler (Portrait)PSA 3

Hoping they cross over at the same grade or above.

N162 Goodwin Champions Cap Anson
PSA 4-$3612.85 SGC 50-$6,900.00

1909 T206 Sweet Caporal Frank Chance (Portrait) Guessing Yellow??
PSA 4-$181.73 SGC 50-$175.50

1914 Cracker Jack Bill Carrigan
PSA 2-$89.00 SGC 40-$158.27

1909 E90-1 Amer Caramel George Mullin
PSA 4-$113.00 SGC 50-$155.00

1909 T206 Piedmont Ray Ryan
PSA 4.5-$218.99 SGC 60-$248.50

1909 T206 Sweet Caporal Rube Waddell (Portrait)
PSA 5-$321.08 SGC 60-$365.00

1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel Eddie Plank
PSA 4-$1,778.59 SGC 50-$2,113.88

1909 T206 Sweet Caporal Willie Keeler (Portrait)
PSA 3-$157.94 SGC 40-$125.50

Bobby how do you figure crossing over is going to DOUBLE the value of the Anson? According to VCP: Latest Auction Prices for: SGC 50 - Average Price: $4,025.00

Also that is taking info out of context. Not sure you can really compare results of sales of a PSA graded card to an SGC example of the same grade. Too many factors to consider. Date of sale, eye appeal of the two cards, where or how the sales were conducted to name just a few.

Peter - I was going to ask the same thing. IMO That card brings $4k tops no matter what it's in.

My Trade/Sale Page

The difference in pricing on the Anson is unusual, but it looks like the SGC cards, overall, demand higher sales. This all depends of course on other factors such as date of sale, eye appeal, competing bidders, etc, as noted in a previous post, but generally makes a point. Still good information.

Erich - it's not that what Bobby said is unusual - it's that it is not accurate. According to VCP the ONLY sale of an SGC 50 Anson was for $4k.

My Trade/Sale Page

I would certainly take $6,900 for anyone that wanted to pay it

I don't know what you guys are looking at but here are the sales for an SGC 50 Anson.



7/9/08 Huggins & Scott Image 30 $6,900.00
10/26/07 eBay $5,225.00
10/2/07 eBay Image richardm909 yamonfigurs 21 $4,400.00
7/9/07 eBay $4,583.00
4/29/07 REA $4,993.75
4/27/07 Mastro 23 $4,915.20
4/30/06 Rea $4,640.00
4/3/06 Mastro $4,374.53

My bad it is a N162 not a N300

PSA 4-$3,939.00

SGC 50-$4,025.00

that's an N300...

My Trade/Sale Page

Bobby, that is not an N162.

No impact whatsoever.

The card remains the card, notwithstanding plastic encasing it.

Leave it to Frank to bring reason to this thread...

Sorry. I've been doing this for over 20 years. PSA misgrades(especially undergrades) frequently, but at least they don't grade trimmed cards.

I completely understand where you are coming from. I too plan on crossing a few PSA cards to SGC.

T206 Ty Cobb Bat Off PSA 4.5
T206 Matty Port PSA 4
T206 Johnson Portrait PSA 4
T206 Matty Dark Cap GAI 5 (Won't be surprised if it doesn't cross and I'm OK with that.)
T205 Ty Cobb PSA 4

I have wondered the same thing about thier respective values. I feel that the values won't really be affect too much if at all. I will ask for a minumum of same grade except the GAI 5 Matty and then see what happens. Good luck.

I hate PSA's ego but I would rather own a PSA than SGC...after selling thousands of cards.

crossing over from PSA to SGC will affect its value in the following ways:
1) increase its value, aesthetically
2) devalue it, with regards to the PSA Registry collectors
3) increase it for SGC Registry collectors
4) increase it to the extent that SGC has a superior reputation for assuring authenticity
5) increase it, to the extent that SGC has a superior reputation for strict, objective, and consistently accurate grading
6) Have no effect whatsoever, since the card remains the card, assuming there is no alteration on the premises during the grading.

Plenty to pick from!

Not to turn this into a PSA bashing thread, but the statement that "at least [PSA doesn't] grade trimmed cards" is, to put it mildly, completely mistaken. My PSA 5 T206 Frank Baker card was a terribly done trim job that SGC rightly refused to cross over. And there have been many many examples of others shown on this board (putting aside whether you consider the PSA 8 Wagner trimmed or hand cut).

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visithttp://www.t206collector.com for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

"Sorry. I've been doing this for over 20 years. PSA misgrades(especially undergrades) frequently, but at least they don't grade trimmed cards"

Paul - you beat me to the punch. The statement above is just patently absurd. Ive personally owned several PSA encased cards that would not cross due to suspected trims. Ive also owned several that were overgraded (at least by SGC's standards).




Edited to add the last sentence.

Of course it makes a difference. Many collectors do not buy SGC cards just as many do not buy PSA.. I would think pre-war you will do equally well; post war no question that due to the PSA Set Registry you would do better.

I think Jim's post nails my observations. Perfect post.

I am crossing most of my Pre-War cards to SGC because I like their holders and grading standards better. But then again I don't plan on selling anytime soon.

The cards are cards, no matter what plastic they are in.

I've developed a preference for SGC vs PSA over the last couple of years. My visits to both companies at card shows, including the Nationals, have given me a preference for the individuals at SGC. I've crossed a few cards over to SGC with minimum specifications, and they have all come back quite fairly, a few with bump-ups that I was hoping for. With or without the bump-ups, I agree that the holders themselves are significantly more appealing, so as long as I continue to get a good feel for the people at SGC, and the fairness/thoroughness of their card reviews, I see no reason to use PSA. My cards are all Pre-War, and mostly pre WWI at that, which seems to be SGC's forte. This is not meant as a knock on PSA's capabilities or process, just a thought-out preference for one company over another. I value this board's input on the matter as well. Outside of my direct contact with hobby folks, it's my main source of 3rd party opinion on the companies.

Sandy Schwartz

I sent you an email, hope I can help

Jimmy

I echo JK's comments exactly. If I were selling post war cards then I might go with PSA for the strictly monetary aspect...though SGC is probably catching up there too. For pre-war it's not even a question ...SGC is the choice and Beckett is 2nd....PSA gets it right most of the times...which isn't good enough for me. Check out their coffee table book and the Doyle they have....That's only about a $500,000 mistake.....best regards

Post war PSA by a mile. Pre war PSA or SGC. PSA makes more mistakes than SGC but they grade so many more cards than SGC that they are bound to make a few more mistakes. I do like SGC's holders better. This is just my opinion.

Leon,

I will grant you that PSA has made some well publicized mistakes as I can attest first hand. My M116 Honus Wagner PSA 8 is actually labeled a T206--wow, don't I wish--but would you really go to Beckett to sell a vintage card? No matter what you think of PSA, one could get considerably more if it was in a PSA holder than Beckett.

Jim

My view has always been:

Buy -- SGC
Sell -- PSA
Own -- RAW

After seeing the job that Beckett has done grading vintage cards recently, I would have no objection to owning a BVG card over a PSA card. As of today, I have much more confidence in SGCs and BVGs ability to get it right that I do PSA.

I like Frank's post. The value of the card will remain the same, but the value of the label might change.

I would say that unless you think the grade is wrong, leave the card in the PSA holder.

I find it funny when I see Frank and others repeatedly post the notion that a card's value is its value and the holder doesn't influence that value. Yet it's often these same folks who blame grading companies for changing "their hobby," in part by driving up the prices of cards (via set registries, people who collect only by the number on the flip, etc.).

So which is it? Either the slab impacts the value of a card or it doesn't. No fair having it both ways to help bolster your argument of the moment.

I think a card has a value, and certain holders better help realize that value at sale. It goes without saying that a card in a SGC holder will sell for more than the same card in a PRO holder. For the same authentic Babe Ruth autograph, you help realize full value on eBay by getting JSA LOA. For the potential buyers, they have a set number on the value of a Ruth signature but won't pay that value, and might not even pay, without the third party opinion.

The collector's value for something and how much he is willing to pay are not always one and the same. This is usually because the collector, viewing something on cyberspace or in an area he's not expert in, may not be confident on the authenticity and grade. Putting the rare card is an SGC holder will make this collector more confident in the identity and condition, and thus he will be willing to pay more. The collector may want to own a Ruth signed baseball, but is not an autograph expert, so waits for one with a reputable LOA that makes him more assured of the authenticity.

This thread is not about switching from raw to PSA, or NASA to SGC. It's about changing from PSA to SGC, which, unless there's something with the grade, is about a lateral move.

Being one of the Frank's "others" I will expand on my short post:

I like RAW cards, my choice, have no problem with those who prefer slabbed.

However, if I BUY a graded card (for later removal), I would rather buy SGC (for the reasons the grand majority of this board espouses).

However, if I were to SELL one of my raw cards (that I feel would sell better as graded) I would have it graded by PSA. For whatever reason, like it or not, overall, I still think PSA cards sell higher than comparable SGC cards.


Just my 2.5 Good+ opinion

This thread is not about switching from raw to PSA, or NASA to SGC. It's about changing from PSA to SGC, which, unless there's something with the grade, is about a lateral move.

An excellent and key point, David. I had no doubt that you appreciate that distinction.

"PSA misgrades(especially undergrades) frequently, but at least they don't grade trimmed cards."

Good point!

Getting back to the original question, I'd say T206's sell better in a PSA holder, due to the Registry. I've been collecting T206's for 30 years and have recently completed a near set of 520 T206's. PSA is the dominant grader of T206's and commands a 5-10% premium on ebay, based on my years of ebay trolling.

To maximize your resale value, check the populations of that card and that set to compare SGC and PSA. Higher overall population of a set is better, but a low population of a single card is better. So, for example, if SGC has graded more E95's, but very few E95's of Plank then I would cross-over the Plank to SGC.

Best Wishes