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Not in order but off the top of my head here they are..........
Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Honus Wagner
Ty Cobb
Joe Jackson
Christy Mathewson
Waler Johnson
Grover Alexander
Josh Gibson
Rogers Hornsby
Cap Anson
Ed Delahanty
Cy Young
Mickey Mantle
Oscar Charleston
Pop Lloyd
Tris Speaker
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Willie Mays
For the most part, I don't collect as an investment, but if did, I'd focus on undervalued players in undervalued sets. I'd also try and project who might be more highly regarded, and less regarded, in the future. For instance, if Joe Jackson ever went into the hall of Fame, I believe it would devalue his cards, since he's basically a Rogers Hornsby-level player, and currently, his cards can outsell Cobb and Ruth in comparable sets. I suspect that as time goes by, statistical analysis and not membership in the Hall of Fame will have a greater bearing on how people judge a player's ability. Also, I'd collect players who people have a sentimental attachment to ...
1) Honus Wagner (the second greatest player ever and much cheaper than Ruth)
2) Babe Ruth
3) Jackie Robinson (his stature in baseball history will only increase with time)
4) Lou Gehrig
5) Joe DiMaggio
6) Satchel Paige
7) Ty Cobb
8) Ted Williams
9) Christy Mathewson
10) Walter Johnson
11) Willie Mays
12) Hank Aaron
13) Roberto Clemente
14) Cy Young
15) Lefty Grove (very much undervalued)
16) Jimmie Foxx (undervalued)
17) Yogi Berra
18) Stan Musial
19) Sandy Koufax (grab those Bell Brands and Morrells now!)
20) Any Negro Leaguers in the Hall of Fame (since statistics have little use when evaluating Negro League players)
In particular, I consider Mickey Mantle, Dizzy Dean and Joe Jackson to be overvalued ... along with about half the players in the Hall of Fame.
Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with the inclusion of Josh Gibson on any investor's list either: he's got like one card and it's value is down about 80% in the past 3 years.
Chris I agree completely on Dizzy Dean...he is ridiculously overvalued
My list:
1. Roberto Clemente - He'll be there with Jackie Robinson in time, but he's not quite there yet. While I think Robinson has leveled off, the Latin influence on baseball continues to grow, and Clemente is their patron saint of baseball.
2. Lefty Grove - Best. Pitcher. Ever. People just don't realize it yet
3 and 4. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb - These guys are the elite of the elite, and always will be. As long as there is demand for baseball cards there will be no shortage of buyers for their material.
5. Lou Gehrig - A rung below Ruth and Cobb as far as career accomplishments, but probably not for notoriety. His name will live on forever, even among casual baseball fans.
6. Christy Mathewson - Has always been and will always be popular with vintage collectors. Johnson was a better pitcher and Alexander has stats that match his, but Matty seems to have that certain something that appeals to collectors.
7. Cy Young - The award that bears his name has ensured that his name will live on forever.
8. Jimmie Foxx - Like Grove, he seems very undervalued relative to his career accomplishments
9. Stan Musial - A more modern version of Foxx
10. Gavvy Cravath - If you want to take an outside shot at a Veterans Committee selection, anything related to him might be worth a try
Also: Ted Williams, Walter Johnson, Tris Speaker, Connie Mack, Honus Wagner, Charlie Gehringer, Satchel Paige
Great lists. I feel like a couple of the most undervalued cards right now are Jackie Robinson and Pete Rose. Rose is way way down for all the obvious reasons but is the greatest hitter to ever play the game, and when he dies everything will change. Both of these players have a good chance to have a major hollywood movie done about them someday and demand for their cards would be huge when that happens. I also believe that Rose has a legit shot at getting in the hall after his death and do think it will happen.
Fatty Arbuckle
Oscar Charleston
Jimmy Claxton
Chuck Connors
Ed Delahanty
Josh Gibson
Pete Hill
Joe Jackson
Pop Lloyd
Cornelius McGillicutty
Fred McMullin
Bid McPhee
Ernie Nevers
Swede Risberg
Frank Selee
Louis Sockalexis
Jim Thorpe
Cristobal Torriente
Buck Weaver
Claude Williams
Harry Wright
edited to add "The Rifleman"
PS and I didnt include any Jewish or Deaf players, which I easily could have
This message has been edited by fkw on Apr 24, 2009 2:06 AM This message has been edited by fkw on Apr 24, 2009 2:05 AM
Chris, I agree with much of your list, but have a hard time thinking Wagner is the second best player ever, unless you have Ruth & Cobb tied for first. Also, I find it puzzling that you would think Dizzy Dean is Overvalued yet you think Sandy Koufax is Undervalued, Really?
-Rhett
Edited to add: Greg, I like a lot of your choices too, especially Grove, he was incredible, also imagine if the Orioles hadn't held onto his contract for as long as they did.
Also, I agree wih Tinker & Evers being overrated BUT Chance was quite a bit better than those two and he would have made the Hall had he never played but just for his Managerial record. I guess I feel is is much more legit than his song counterparts.
This message has been edited by rhettmyeakley on Apr 24, 2009 5:24 AM
Also, I wanted to add if one is talking about the most underrated players of all time I feel like Lefty Grove is probably the top pitcher, while for hitters I think it is Eddie Collins hands down!
While Wagner's numbers are better compared to his contemporaries (meaning he led his league in more offensive categories, etc.), if you look strictly at the numbers Wagner & Collins are so similar it is kinda startling.
Getting back to Wagner, one could easily make the argument that had Wagner been in the American League he may have been overshadowed by not only Cobb but Speaker & Lajoie as well. Admittedly, however, that is tough to argue as Wagner was the best in the National League at the time, and we can never know how he would have done against the AL pitching.
-Rhett
1. Babe Ruth
2. Ty Cobb
3. Honus Wagner
4. Mickey Mantle
5. Joe Dimaggio
6. Lou Gehrig
7. Joe Jackson
8. Ted Williams
9. Christy Mathewson
10. Walter Johnson
11. Cap Anson
12. Jackie Robinson
13. Willie Mays
14. Hank Aaron
15. Cy Young
16. Nap Lajoie
17. Tris Speaker
18. Rogers Hornsby
19. Grover Cleveland Alexander
20. Ed Delehanty
I agree Koufax is overvalued. But the question pertained to collecting as an investment, and I believe Koufax will always be overvalued, especially when the supply of his tougher regional cards dries up ...
As for Wagner, I have no problem putting him ahead of Cobb because of his versatility and defense. In addition to being the dominant hitter in the National League during his era, he was considered by some of his contemporaries to be the best defensive player in the game ... at any position! Because of the status of his T206 as the ultimate card, there will always be a mystique about owning a Wagner card. Plus, aren't there a lot more Cobbs out there than Wagners?
1. Ruth
2. Wagner
3. Cobb
4. Joe Jackson
5. Walter Johnson
6. Mathewson
7. Cy Young
8. Cap Anson
9. Gehrig
10. DiMaggio
11. Ted Williams
12. Mantle
13. Buck Weaver
14. Jimmy Claxton
15. Jackie Robinson
16. Lajoie
17. Koufax
18. Clemente
19. Eddie Collins
20. Lefty Grove
If they only had more cards/memorabilia, certainly in the top 20: Satchell Paige, Josh Gibson
I gave points to the players in reverse order of their position in the list (1st name 20 points, 2nd name 19 points all the way down to the 20th players which get 1 point) a player to qualify needed at least 3 votes.
1) Ruth 155
2) Cobb 141
3) Wagner 130
4) Mathewson 110
5) Gehring 110
6) Jackson 105
7) Johnson 88
8) Young 75
9) Mantle 66
10) DiMaggio 63
11) Anson 60
12) Williams 58
13) Robinson 51
14) Clemente 43
15) Mays 36
16) Lajoie 33
17) Alexander 29
18) Grove 26
19) Delahanty 26
20) Aaron 23
