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Kudos to Legendary - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 25 2009 at 10:40 PM

Mark Fimoff  (Login bmarlowe1)

 
Lot #252 in the current Legendary auction:

[linked image]

Legendary's description:
"The assembly includes: Abstein, Byrne (VG/EX, spotting on collet at left edge), Clarke (VG, stain-spots in background), Miller, Wilson, and one unidentified athlete."

OK - of those 5 names listed by Legendary, some may be there, some may not be there. Can you match all 6 correct names to the right faces?

Hint - pages 22-23 of the fall 2008 Old Cardboard might help.


    
This message has been edited by bmarlowe1 on Apr 29, 2009 10:47 PM


 
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Rhett Yeakley
(Login rhettmyeakley)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 25 2009, 11:05 PM 

I don't have any of the Old Cardboard's with me but here is whom I think they look like from that team (no Clarke in there). I could very well be wrong though...

L-R top row ABSTEIN MILLER WILSON
L-R bottom row LEACH BYRNE CAMNITZ

-Rhett

Edited to switch Camnitz & Byrne as I had their position switched in my mind (the new board will be nice to be able to see the previous posts while writing yours.)


    
This message has been edited by rhettmyeakley on Apr 26, 2009 12:30 AM


 
 
Al Simeone
(Login batsballsbases)

1909 pirate ID IQ Test

April 25 2009, 11:27 PM 

I will take a shot here top row L To R. Abstein,Miller, Wilson Bottom Row L To R Clarke, Byrne and heres the tricky part Could be Camnitz, Leever, or Simon I would say Camnitz

 
 
Frank Wakefield
(Login FrankWakefield)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 12:50 AM 

I've not looked at other photos or guides to identify the guys... If I
do that, then we don't discern who "I" can identify, but rather who I
can pick out with photo help.

I think that's Clarke on the bottom left, one of the Camnitz's on
bottom right.


I think these are later than 1909. In 1909 the city's name was Pittsburg.

It was just a bit later that the name was changed to Pittsburgh.

So they might depict 1909 players... but they're a year or so later.

 
 

Mark
(Login bmarlowe1)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 1:14 AM 

Frank said -- "If I do that, then we don't discern who "I" can identify, but rather who I can pick out with photo help."

That is an interesting take on this - I never intended it to be a "closed book" test - it's hard enough when you do have a very clear team photo for reference (as with the Pittsburg Press supplement in Old Cardboard that I recommended).

As to the date - one of the players was gone after 1909, another did not arrive until well into the 09 season, so the intent was likely to depict members of the 1909 team..


    
This message has been edited by bmarlowe1 on Apr 26, 2009 1:18 AM


 
 
Rhett Yeakley
(Login rhettmyeakley)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 1:29 AM 

Frank, the Pittsburg vs. Pittsburgh thing is trickier than you think.

In 1890 the US decided to Standardize all city names around the country as there were some cities with several different names and some with multiple spellings (as is the case here.) It was decided that ALL cities in the US that ended in "-burgh" or "-burg" would now be "-BURG" and thus the "H" was Officially dropped from Pittsburgh.

Despite this fact the city fought it and tons of stuff produced & printed after that date still retained the "H". Pittsburghers are a tough bunch and didn't really take kindly to the Gov't telling them how to spell the name of their city. I lived in the Burgh for several years and can testify they are a tough working-class city.

In 1910 Pittsburgh officially announced the restoration of the lost "H" to their city. Despite this fact some people still spelled the city w/o the H for several years, as had been the earlier custom. So, I would never use the "H" or no "H" to try and date anything, it just wasn't that cut & dry.

Anyways, that is why Pittsburgh retains their "H" while most cities ending in -burg/-burgh are today spelled without the H.

-Rhett


    
This message has been edited by rhettmyeakley on Apr 26, 2009 1:32 AM


 
 

Steve Murray
(Login jacklitsch)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 8:38 AM 

L-R top row ABSTEIN/MILLER/SHELTON
L-R bottom row CLARKE/BYRNE/HOWIE CAMNITZ

 
 

Sean
(Login milkit1)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 9:26 AM 

I would bet money on it that the bottom far left is Tommy Leach and NOT Fred Clarke.

 
 

JDRUM
(Login hrbaker)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 9:36 AM 

I agree that is Leach and not Clarke.

 
 
Al Simeone
(Login batsballsbases)

1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 12:40 PM 

Gentleman,
I dont know,maybe we will have to re write the books but this is what I have. From Hake+ Steckler.
As I think I said the only one is the last bottom right that maybe in question. But as we know even the best can be wrong![linked image]

 
 
Al Simeone
(Login batsballsbases)

1909 pirate

April 26 2009, 12:42 PM 

looks like it only took 1 picture in the first post.[linked image]

 
 

Mark Fimoff
(Login bmarlowe1)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 12:44 PM 

They are:
Abstein - Dots Miller - Wilson
Leach - Byrne - Camnitz

Rhett got them all.

The most important thing, auction-wise I guess, is that it's Leach, not Clarke, as spotted by several posters above.

[linked image] [linked image] [linked image]

edited: Al posted while I was working on my post - Hake+Steckler is wrong on Clarke & Leach - they have them reversed.


    
This message has been edited by bmarlowe1 on Apr 26, 2009 12:50 PM


 
 
Al Simeone
(Login batsballsbases)

1909 pirate test

April 26 2009, 1:24 PM 

Thanks Mark like I said even the best can be wrong!!!!

 
 
Frank Wakefield
(Login FrankWakefield)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 26 2009, 11:01 PM 

Thanks, Rhett... So do you think they're 1909, or realistically 1910 depicting the 1909 players??

 
 

Mark Fimoff
(Login bmarlowe1)

Re: Legendary Auction - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 28 2009, 1:26 PM 

edited in light of next post


    
This message has been edited by bmarlowe1 on Apr 29, 2009 10:49 PM


 
 

Mark
(Login bmarlowe1)

Re: Kudos to Legendary - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 29 2009, 10:48 PM 

Legendary has made the needed corrections to the item description!

 
 
Matt
(Login MSW1)

Re: Kudos to Legendary - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 29 2009, 11:31 PM 

I suppose better late then never - any ideea if they got in touch with all the bidders to give them the option of bid retraction? a HOFer to a non-HOFer is a big difference.




My Trade/Sale Page


 
 
Al Simeone
(Login batsballsbases)

1909 pirate

April 29 2009, 11:37 PM 

Matt,
I believe the rarity of the lot will still bring a very good price. Even if it isnt Clarke. They dont come up that often and the stick pin is nice to have with that lot.

 
 

Mark
(Login bmarlowe1)

Re: Kudos to Legendary - 1909 Pirate ID IQ Test

April 30 2009, 12:42 AM 

Matt - I don't know. They didn't get a lot of notice on this one and they responded pretty fast compared to another auctioneer of recent memory. I would think that if a bidder wanted to retract his bid he would have a leg to stand on here, but I am sure other posters here know better than I do.

 
 
 
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