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Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009 at 7:58 PM

chiprop  (Login chiprop)

 
I just placed a bid (in one of the current auctions) on a card similar to a card I currently own. I did this because it is currently too cheap and I would be delighted to own another at its current price. How many times do you find yourself bidding in an auction to protect a card you own? By the way, I did not do this to run up the price, rather to own another and cost average my investment. If I don't end up with it, then I guess I helped myself anyway.

 
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Ken McMillan
(Login kmac32)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:00 PM 

never have done it. Questionable ethics at best when we try to influence the market price this way.

Kmac


    
This message has been edited by kmac32 on Apr 29, 2009 8:01 PM


 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:02 PM 

What is the ethical issue, as long as you pay the bill if you happen to win it? Many collectors go after duplicates for trade bait.

 
 
Matt
(Login MSW1)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:02 PM 

It sounds like you didn't do so in your case, but bidding on another instance of a card with no intent of owning it for the sole purpose of pushing up the sale price, smacks of shill bidding. The difference between the two is that instead of taking the profits from the current sale, you'll get the profits when you sell yours.
I'm sure it happens all the time and many have no issue with it, but it always smelled funny to me.




My Trade/Sale Page


 
 

chiprop
(Login chiprop)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:02 PM 

I mentioned that I would like to own it at its current price, so why can't I bid like everyone else, free of guilt?

 
 
Matt
(Login MSW1)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:04 PM 

Dan - I think your thread title is what's causing the confusion - you're bidding to own AND to protect; I think the questionable ethics part is when you're only purpose is to protect.




My Trade/Sale Page


 
 

Claude
(Login Gamebits)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:04 PM 

If you don't bid on your own card I do not see anything unetical about it, I don't see why you should not be able to own more than one specific card.

 
 

Jeff Lichtman
(Login calvindog)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:05 PM 

Dan, this is a hilarious thread, truly. The more significant question to ask is: have you ever bid on your own cards to protect your cards?

 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:08 PM 

I think the issue is if you bid on a card you don't need just to keep the price up, and of course we assume you don't own it, then how does it differ than if you bid on a card you do need? In either case you either win it and pay the bill, or get topped by somebody else and drop out.

If you think the card is worth say $1000 and it's currently sitting at half that, why wouldn't you bid?

 
 

chiprop
(Login chiprop)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:11 PM 

Matt- You are absolutely correct, although I think it is samantics. The answer is - I think I bid for both reasons. I wanted to make sure if the card sold for X, that it would be mine. I don't think that I was trying to run up the price as much as I wanted another at 1/2 the price as my last one.

 
 
Matt
(Login MSW1)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:14 PM 

Dan - and that's why I think you're in the clear.

Barry - could the same argument be made with regards to shill bidding? If you think the card you are selling is worth $1000 and it's currently at $500, why wouldn't you bid $600?
As I mentioned above, a case can be made that the only difference between the two is that you directly get the profit from shill bidding and you only indirectly get the profit when you sell your other copy with the above.




My Trade/Sale Page


 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:17 PM 

Bidding on your own card is shilling, make no mistake. But if you see a card going cheap in an auction and you already have one, why not bid on it? You are allowed to own two of the same card.

 
 

chiprop
(Login chiprop)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:17 PM 

"Dan, this is a hilarious thread, truly. The more significant question to ask is: have you ever bid on your own cards to protect your cards?"

I would think that happens more than most people think. Along those same lines, I would bet that most "sold" cards in auctions are manipulated, unsold, shilled, or never get paid for, leaving us sold prices that are not valid.

 
 

Jeff Lichtman
(Login calvindog)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:19 PM 

Dan, I think a very small percentage of realized lots in both Mastro and REA will not be the result of some form of shill bidding. It's like cheating on your taxes: lots of people do it thinking that "everyone does it, so what's teh big deal?" And no one thinks they'll get caught -- until they get caught.

 
 
Matt
(Login MSW1)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:20 PM 

Barry - agreed - it's a question of intent - same as shill bidding. With shill bidding you could argue that I see a card going for half price, why not bid - I'm allowed to own that copy of that card, it just so happens that I am the seller. The issue is that with traditional shill bidding your intent is to avoid a loss - if you're bidding for that same purpose over here, then I think you're in the gray.




My Trade/Sale Page



    
This message has been edited by MSW1 on Apr 29, 2009 8:21 PM


 
 

davidcycleback
(Login dereb12)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:20 PM 

Bidding to raise the price with no intention of winning is an equivalent to shilling. Bidding with the hope of winning and willingness to pay the bill is fine. What the initial poster describes deserves no apology, he has perfect right to try and win a second one.

I doubt single handedly 'propping up the market' works. The investor can't survive forever on his own bids.


    
This message has been edited by dereb12 on Apr 29, 2009 8:37 PM


 
 

Wesley
(Login wesleyliu)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:23 PM 

In Dan's case, he wants to purchase another card, so no one can accuse him of anything unethical. However, if one of the main motivations for bidding is to drive up the price of like cards, then there is certainly something wrong. I have a feeling that there is a large percentage of collectors who bid in this fashion to protect the value of cards that they own. In fact, this kind of activity by dealers and collector is probably one of the main reasons why prices for cards have not fallen dramatically in the past year.

 
 
barrysloate
(Login barrysloate)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:26 PM 

Matt- completely agrre, it is a matter of intent and good faith. If you don't own a card and are an eligible bidder, you are free to bid on it for any reason whatsoever, and no auction house will ask you to explain why you are doing so.

 
 
Matt
(Login MSW1)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:27 PM 

"If you don't own a card and are an eligible bidder, you are free to bid on it for any reason whatsoever, and no auction house will ask you to explain why you are doing so."

I'm sure you also agree that just because the house lets you doesn't make it ethical.

Had to write that just for Jeff happy.gif




My Trade/Sale Page


 
 

Brian Weisner
(Login BRIANKW)

Re: Have you ever bid to protect your cards?

April 29 2009, 8:29 PM 


Hi Matt,
Jeff went to Duke.... He has no ethics....

Be well Brian


PS Jeff knows I'm kidding.... Go Heels

 
 
 
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