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Hell's Angels on their way to Cloquet

July 14 2009 at 10:05 AM
Bart  (no login)


 
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David E.B. Smith
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Re: Hell's Angels on their way to Cloquet

July 14 2009, 10:23 AM 

"They explained the ride to us as being a type of family vacation, if you will"

Riders have long pondered, what do I tell the officer if I get pulled over while on a rally and he asks what I'm doing? This is the answer. "Officer, it's a type of family vacation, if you will."

 
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Kevin Powers
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Not to worry...

July 14 2009, 10:38 AM 

..just another Very Boring Rally.

I hear Andy is introducing a new Darien with velcro on the back for patches and rockers.

 
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(Login stryg8r)

Bonus points

July 14 2009, 10:42 AM 

How many points for a pic of a Hells Angel holding my rally flag?

 
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Mark Collins
(Login Old-Shovel)

Re: Bonus points

July 14 2009, 11:46 AM 

Jeez, don't give Eddie any ideas.....

on the other hand, Sturgis is usually the same time as ButtLite. Plenty of HA's just hangin' around. I'm sure they will all get a kick out of everyone's "LOUD PIPES - SMALL PENIS" stickers.

...could be fun.




 
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(Login stryg8r)

Re: Hell's Angels on their way to Cloquet

July 14 2009, 10:41 AM 

Our City Council stopped approving special permits during the Hells Angels visit. Our annual Spirit Valley Days (traditionally held the first weekend in August) was moved up two weeks this year to not conflict with the Hells Angels USA ride. The police don't want any other events occurring that would use their resources during that time.

One permit was approved, despite opposition from police. A softball tournament party at a West Duluth bar will occur on August 1st and allow alcohol served outside the bar. I don't think the partygoers' are in any real danger. West Duluth is probably too rough for even the Hells Angels.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/125199/

 
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Bart
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Re: Hell's Angels on their way to Cloquet

July 14 2009, 11:04 AM 

I see Canadians will be participating in the softball tournament at Player's in West Duluth. Between them and the Hell's Angels, sounds prudent to steer clear of that area. I think I'll head for Wyoming - before the Angels head west for Stoogis.

 
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David E.B. Smith
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Re: Hell's Angels on their way to Cloquet

July 14 2009, 1:17 PM 

Apparently the Duluth PD gets its criminal intelligence from watching old movies on A&E:

When Hells Angels converge on an area, [Duluth Police Lt. Dan] Chicos said they typically take over a particular town or establishment. They pick places where they establish dominance and target local citizens for assault.

And they drag race on Main Street for beers and play their hepcat music real loud, too.

 
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John C
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Re: Hell's Angels on their way to Cloquet

July 14 2009, 7:28 PM 

Hey David, google hells angels and steamboat springs. Why let someone getting shot spoil a perfectly good weekend?

Duluth PD have some real, not imagined, problems coming down the pike. That officer's statement is spot on.

 
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John C
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Here's a little tidbit of the fun when the Hell's Angels come to town.

July 14 2009, 10:09 PM 

http://www.missoulian.com/specials/hellsangels/ha04.html

Cities of Angels
By MICHAEL JAMISON of the Missoulian

Two states, two gatherings, two outcomes

STEAMBOAT SPRINGS, Colo. - Roger Jensen gazed wide-eyed into the roaring dervish, and he wasn't scared. He was calm, ready to embrace Pandemonium.
Ignorance was, indeed, bliss.

Jensen was police chief in the out-of-the-way Rocky Mountain resort town of Steamboat Springs, a wide spot in the Colorado blacktop three hours west of Denver on a road leading nowhere particular. The Hells Angels were rumbling into his town, "Ski Town, USA," for their 1996 World Run, bringing with them a history of chaos in small towns. But Jensen really wasn't worried.

Perhaps he should've been.

Less than one week before the infamous outlaw bikers were to arrive, Jensen told the local newspaper what to expect, based on conversations he'd had with the Angels: "They'll visit our bars and restaurants," he said. "They'll go to our theater, they'll go fishing. You may see them in the parks having a picnic with their family; that's what they're here to do."

Four years later, four years after the assaults and the stabbings and the shootings and the boot-stomping bar fights, Jensen's no longer police chief, and the town still buzzes with tales of those crazy Angels whose World Run swept over Ski Town like a tattooed avalanche.

"They were essentially able to take the place over," says Kevin Bennett, president of the Steamboat Springs City Council. "We underestimated the impact of their presence."

Bennett says the town didn't meet the "gray-haired bikers, this kinder and gentler Hells Angels" promised by Jensen. Instead, he says, "we were on the verge of having it really come unglued."

Hunter S. Thompson, the journalist who spent a year riding with the Angels during the mid-1960s, described a Hells Angel run as "a massive three-day drunk that nearly always results in some wild, free-swinging action and another rude shock for the squares. ... It is a time for sharing the wine jug, pummeling old friends, random fornication and general full-dress madness."

Perhaps not much has changed in 35 years. Perhaps Jensen really should've been worried about the Angels' run to Steamboat.

Two weeks after the outlaw bikers roared out of town, after the hired-gun SWAT teams returned to patrol Denver's urban jungle, Jensen had been, in the words of one Hells Angel, "educated."

"In hindsight," Jensen says, "I would have been more direct in telling people, 'If you come in contact (with individual Hells Angels), you have to be careful. There is an element that is dangerous. If you put yourself in a confrontational situation they will finish whatever you start.' We should have said that. ... They would have not hesitated to have a confrontation with police. They are not afraid of the police one bit."

But, oddly, many of the tales from Steamboat are stories of police overreacting rather than of drunken bikers dragging the town's daughters out of their beds and beating concerned boyfriends with beer bottles.

In the end, there wasn't a single arrest. A half-dozen locals got stomped, but even they admit they started it, even if they didn't deserve it. Two Hells Angels were shot, likely by other Angels, but the bikers police themselves and gave local authorities no opportunity to intervene.

Meanwhile, Main Street enjoyed business as usual while police scrambled to get a handle on what exactly was happening to the unquestioned authority they usually enjoyed.

"For the police, it was a crisis," says Ben Beall, a Routt County commissioner. "For the rest of us, it was no big deal. I went to this meeting and there were all these cops and SWAT teams, and I thought, 'What are they doing?' But you know how it is - everything gets blown out of proportion when you're so involved."

The only time the Angels were a problem for the citizens of Steamboat, Beall says, was when "locals got in the way."

"There were incidents in the bars where the cowboys came in and wanted to see how tough these bikers are," he says, "and you can imagine how that turned out."

Generally, he says, it turned out with a bloody cowboy.

Jensen's then-second-in-command, J.D. Hays, remembers the 1996 World Run as a big deal - a very big deal, in fact.

"We had absolutely zero experience in dealing with an incident like this," admits Hays, who succeeded Jensen as chief of the Steamboat Springs Police Department. The first night the Angels were in town, he says, local law enforcement agencies beefed up patrols from three to 24, confident that a couple dozen police could handle any trouble.

"That was Plan A," Hays says, "and that was a mistake."

Cops responding to calls - to traffic complaints or to bar fights - found themselves surrounded by Hells Angels, vastly outnumbered and admittedly intimidated.

"That's when we decided, 'This is bull----. Let's go to Plan B,' " Hays recalls.

Two years later, when the 1998 Hells Angels World Run came to Ventura, Calif., police there had learned from Steamboat's experience, had called in the troops, had discarded anything like Plan A months before the bikers' arrival. In Ventura, the World Run looked more like a police parade than the madness of Steamboat.

"The difference," says Ventura patrolman George Brink, "is that in Steamboat Springs the cops didn't run their town. Here, we did."

This, then, is a tale of two cities, one where the Angels assumed control and one where police ruled with an iron fist. There is, however, one common denominator: In both towns most locals, looking back, prefer the Angels over the cops.

News tricked slowly to Steamboat Springs. An FBI wiretap tipped federal agents that the Hells Angels might be rolling into the rural Colorado town for an annual gathering. The FBI tipped the Colorado State Patrol, which tipped the Denver Police Department, which handed it to its motorcycle gang expert. Finally, about four weeks before the bikers were to arrive, somebody called Steamboat.

The Angels, it seems, had planned well for their early-August party. Steamboat hadn't. The resort town of 8,000 already had a full house, with about 20,000 tourists in town for a free concert, a special symphony, a PRCA rodeo, an international softball tournament, a national roller hockey tournament, a mountain bike race and a handful of other events.

When local police heard the Angels were riding for Steamboat, Hays says, they began a crash course in "Bikers 101: How to Prepare for the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club." They called local hotels, found out where the Angels were staying (many had booked rooms under the acronym HAMC, and hotel owners didn't know to whom they were playing host); called in motorcycle gang experts; coordinated with nearby agencies; and arranged for extra help, including state wildlife officers and federal forest rangers.

The result was - for Steamboat, at least - an impressive show of law enforcement. Two dozen officers rode two to a car, patrolling in 12-hour shifts.

Meanwhile, 50 dozen Hells Angels rode in one to a Harley, riding pretty much when and where they chose.

The first night, officer Rick Crotz and his partner responded to an early-evening bar brawl, the first of several in which locals lost the fight, some dignity, a few teeth and not a little blood.

A local drunk, as Hays describes him, had opened his mouth at the wrong time and a bar full of Angels had closed it for him. Crotz called for backup, marching in with 10 armed officers to escort their towering and tattooed suspect out of the crowded chaos.

The Angels followed.

"As soon as we walked out of the bar, we were surrounded," Crotz says. "It was very intimidating."

Ringed by 30 or 40 Angels, Crotz and his men opted against arresting their suspect. Had they tried to cuff him, Crotz says, "I have no doubt we would have had to pull our guns."

So much for Plan A.

Even George Christie, president of the Ventura Hells Angels, doesn't understand Plan A, based on a ratio of 24 cops to 600 Hells Angels.

"Wouldn't a logical person understand that if he was a police officer" in that situation "that he would be outnumbered?" Christie wonders. "Of course they're going to be outnumbered, but that doesn't mean we sat down and conspired to outnumber the police."

The day after the showdown outside the bar, Steamboat called in the troops. Reinforcements arrived - deputies from Douglas, Grand, Routt, Mesa, Boulder, Moffat, Arapahoe, Rio Blanco, Garfield, Summit, Jefferson and Eagle counties; city cops from Grand Junction, Steamboat, Denver, Craig, Colorado Springs; fire departments, search and rescue teams, state and federal law enforcement; 26 agencies in all.

"We had close to 200 cops," Hays says, "and if we'd had twice that many it wouldn't have bothered me a bit."

Most of the agencies paid their own way, but Steamboat Springs still doled out more than $15,000 for overtime, meals, gasoline, housing and other law enforcement expenses.

Even that chunk of change, however, could not purchase peace of mind.

On the Angels' second night in Steamboat, with more than 100 cops working the streets, two Hells Angels were shot inside their "compound," a motel the bikers had taken over for the weekend. By the time police got the call and responded to the Iron Horse Inn, the Angels had barricaded the entrances, set up security check stations, established a perimeter guard and posted sentries on the roof. A rampart of Harley-Davidsons had blockaded the building.

Both police and Hells Angels agree it was an extremely tense scene, everyone armed and nervous, because many of the bikers didn't know there'd been a shooting and so were outraged at what they believed was an unprovoked police raid.

"People really weren't quite sure what transpired," Christie says. "They weren't going to back down. We weren't going to back down. It took a little while to sift through everything."

"I guess we had two choices," Hays says. "We could've fought our way in, which made no sense, or we could negotiate our way in, which is what we did."

The Hells Angels wanted an ambulance for the wounded; police wanted access to a crime scene. Finally, two officers were allowed to carry out the bleeding bikers. Officer Crotz says he "grabbed the biggest cop I could find and said, 'Let's go!' "

He was escorted, for his own safety, by a handful of members from the Ventura Hells Angels Chapter into the motel room.

"There was blood all over," Crotz says, and "this Hells Angel laying on the ground bleeding."

Crotz and his partner pulled the wounded out and into the ambulance and then returned to inspect the crime scene.

The Hells Angels, however, politely but firmly told police they no longer required their assistance. A biker named "Ron" took Crotz's card and said he would call if they needed any help.

It was two hours before the phone rang, a long two hours during which police fumed, incensed that a gang of hoodlums was running their crime scene for them. By the time police again entered the room, Crotz says, the blood was gone; the bedding was gone; the carpet was cut out and gone; large sections of the walls were gone; wall studs were gone; and there was no trace of bullet holes, blood or smoking guns.

"It was sterilized," Hays spits, still angry after all these years.

Christie understands Hays' anger, but he takes a more philosophical, if not smug, outlook on the cat-and-mouse game of power and authority.

"Nobody likes to lose control of a situation they believe they're the master of," Christie says. "It was an education for everyone."

Police learned their lesson quickly. The next day, Christie says, "there was definitely a police presence on the street." He called it a "circus atmosphere of law enforcement" that only served to escalate tensions.

The cops, who as a minority had feared where Angels dared to tread, were now secure in their numbers, and they weren't in a good mood. Neither were the outlaws.

And Hays - despite his anger at being frustrated by the bikers, despite the tension, despite the town's sense of a siege laid down by both Angels and police - says he wouldn't change a thing if the situation were repeated.

"Some townsfolk said, 'You're the police. You should've stormed in,' " he says. "Well, look what happened when they stormed their way into Waco. Look what happened when they stormed their way into Ruby Ridge. It made more sense to negotiate."

In addition, the Angels' weekend gathering in Steamboat wasn't over, and Hays had his biggest worry in front of him: a PRCA rodeo at which the stands would be packed with cowboys and Angels. And according to Tom Ross, then managing editor of the Steamboat Pilot, "You know what a cowboy is - he's a cocky rooster who won't take s--- from anyone, and in many ways that's also what a Hells Angel is."

What would happen with all those roosters rubbing wings in the bleachers? What if some redneck tossed an insult into the Hells Angels' crowd? What if, in Bennett's words, things "came unglued"?

Chuck Vale's job, as Routt County's emergency management director, is to deal with what-ifs.

"Planning is all about what-ifs," he says. "What if you have a crowd of redneck cowboys at a rodeo where lots of beer is served? And what if you mix in a group of Hells Angels? Because I have a very redneck mentality, I could see it not going well at all."

And so, Vale concocted the idea of separating the roosters, putting each in self-contained coops. The Hells Angels were given their own bleachers, their own entrance gate, their own bathrooms. The cowboys were penned on the other side of the arena.

Meanwhile, the hill above the rodeo grounds crawled with law enforcement personnel, a half-dozen SWAT teams ready to - to what? To fire into the melee? To rush into the fray? To take charge and restore order? Most likely, Vale says, they were merely ready to clean up the mess when all was said and done.

But there was no riot, no roiling brawl, no cockfight in the stands. Routt County Sheriff John Warner says police entertained themselves by pointing their laser-sighted rifles at the Angels, getting a kick out of seeing the deadly red dot slide from denim-encased crotch to tattooed chest.

The rodeo, Warner says, "was the biggest non-event that ever didn't happen."

Warner remains angry that gang experts and police sources initially misled him, indicating, "It was going to be this wonderful hand-holding experience between the Hells Angels and the community. Everybody said they would come and be peaceful tourists."

The reality, he says, was a long way from that sunny myth.

The Angels, he says, thundered into Steamboat and immediately set up surveillance on police, following their movements with binoculars, cameras and high-tech radio communications. A communications van, he says, was parked for days across from his offices, seven antennae sprouting from its roof.

"We never did find out what frequency they were communicating on," Warner says. "They had a better communications system than we did."

At one point, he says, a Colorado State Patrol aircraft was monitoring the hotel "compound" from 10,000 feet above when the Angels broke into its secure aviation frequency and told agents to "get the hell off our ceiling."

Warner's deputies, shaken by the constant surveillance, began swapping name tags, trading cars and switching shifts, all in an attempt to throw off the bikers - who for their part admit to some surveillance but say Warner and his men were paranoid to the point of absurdity. Still, it wasn't until help arrived that officers felt relatively safe again, Warner says

"Once we got the SWAT teams in here, all of a sudden these guys changed their tune," he says. "I believe if we'd had 100 cops here from Day 1, we wouldn't have had half the problems. Once we got the numbers in here, the violence stopped. Every time they moved, there was a group of cops on them."

That blue-shadow strategy is exactly the approach Ventura authorities adopted from the start, and it also is the approach that has Angels like Christie complaining that police often create tense situations - and trample civil liberties - by overreacting. Police perceive a threat, Christie says, even when the actions of the Angels don't justify that perception.

Steamboat's experience, says Ventura's Mark Coronado, "scared the heck out of law enforcement here."

Coronado is a patrol officer and resident motorcycle gang expert with the Ventura Police Department. He helped coordinate the multijurisdictional effort to contain the bikers when they arrived for their 1998 World Run

The chaos in Steamboat, Coronado says, "opened our eyes, and it should have."

As soon as he learned the bikers were riding for his town, Coronado began briefing other cops about the realities of a possible Hells Angels takeover.

"Chief (Michael) Tracy decided we weren't going to let them take over our city," Coronado says. "They were going to come whether we liked it or not, but they were going to come under our rules."

Those rules, laid down beneath the palms that line the sun-soaked streets, were enforced by a phalanx of cops, making the town look like an occupied city, according to some downtown merchants.

"The whole thing was real successful because we policed them to death," Coronado remembers. "There were more cops here than they had ever seen."

Because Coronado knew Christie well, and because the Hells Angels were a regular presence in his town, he wasn't, like Steamboat's Jensen, lulled by the promises of the roaring dervish. Instead, he listened, he negotiated and he called for backup.

"Every expert we talked to said the only thing the Hells Angels respect is a show of force, but you've got to have the manpower to back it up," he says.

And manpower was one thing Coronado had more than enough of. He had cops on horses, cops on bicycles, cops with dogs, cops in cars, cops on foot, cops in uniform, cops undercover, even cops on Harley-Davidsons.

He takes pride in the fact that the Angels "didn't have a real good time while they were here, because there were cops everywhere."

If he ruined a 50th anniversary reunion and vacation for 500 bikers, he says, if he cut into the economic boost many merchants expected, then so be it. He ran his town.

Christie, however, still wonders why all the police were necessary. There were no confrontations, he says, no "incidents" between Hells Angels and locals. The tens of thousands of dollars police spent on increased patrols, he says, could have been put to better use in some community charity. That's the kind of public-relations message that makes the cops cringe.

One of the most costly and frustrating parts of the "police invasion," as Christie calls it, was the forest of "no motorcycle parking" signs that cropped up overnight in Ventura. Downtown suddenly was off limits, and bikers were forced to park their hogs and head out on foot.

"It ticked off the Hells Angels and it really ticked off the merchants as well," Coronado says. But it was worth it. "We clamped it down. We were there to stop it. If we hadn't stopped it, who knows?"

Christie, meanwhile, wonders what "it" was that Ventura police stopped. The no-parking signs came down shortly after the Angels roared out of town, leading many citizens to believe they'd been erected only as harassment and intimidation, a public statement designed to reinforce the idea that the police, not the Angels, were still the authority.

"We just slammed them," Coronado says. "They know that if you step in it in front of the uniform, you're going to get stepped on. They understand that. I personally like the zero-tolerance approach. Even with our zero-tolerance plan, they tested us. If we wouldn't have come down on them, we would've lost control. They would've done whatever they wanted."

What they wanted, Christie says, was room to get together without constant harassment. The Hells Angels gain nothing by terrorizing the towns they visit, he says. Stories like those from Steamboat only make it more difficult the next time bikers gather. Left to themselves, Christie says, the Hells Angels will get together, party, renew old friendships and scream back out of town astride those gleaming, growling steel steeds, leaving a wake of cash in the tills of local business owners.

But seldom are they left to themselves.

Their mystique draws in the curious, and among the curious are always a few who decide, for whatever beer-drenched reason, to challenge the bikers. The result usually is the kind of contained explosion that draws police, and among the police are always a few who decide, for reasons of principle and power, to slap back this denim-clad dervish.

In Ventura, there were no run-ins with locals, no fights, no trouble. But there were four arrests, seven impounded bikes, 63 citations, 10 warnings and 166 field interviews.

"If everyone would just calm down and stay out of the way," Christie says, "there would be no problems."

From Christie's point of view, the trouble comes when local toughs and local cops push too far.

The run to Steamboat was wild, he says, because a handful of drunks wanted to test the Angels, because the police overreacted to what were essentially a handful of barroom scraps, and because the media latched on to it and ran pictures of SWAT teams armed to the teeth.

From Christie's point of view, Ventura was peaceful because his club was on its home turf, able to seclude visiting bikers within the fence surrounding the Hells Angels Clubhouse, safe from provocation by citizens or police.

But from law enforcement's view, Steamboat was violent only until enough officers arrived in town, evidence that the Angels are the provocateurs and that they will restrain themselves only when faced with a large enough opponent.

And Ventura, police say, was peaceful due to constant and heavy police pressure, pressure they say persuaded many Angels to leave town early.

"Cops, cops and more cops," Coronado says. "That's the only way you're going to keep it in control."

Up north, in Steamboat Springs, where people still tell the 4-year-old stories as if they happened yesterday, Chuck Vale agrees. "If you have a good plan and enough cops, you can really squeeze the Hells Angels and make it not fun for them," he says. "But if you don't have a plan and a couple hundred cops, man, what are you biting off? Think about it."

 
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Andy
(no login)

Re: Hell's Angels on their way to Cloquet

July 14 2009, 2:13 PM 

One year I went to Sturgis, stopped at a hotel in Rapid city, and was talking with the receptionist lady.

We were joking about the Hells Angels and she said, the year before, A lady called in June and reserved 6 rooms during bike week. She thought it was strange but ok. She said the hells angels showed up and said were here for our rooms. She let them have them but called the cops, They stayed for most of the week and she had no trouble with them.

She said they had a boys soccer match later that summer and those kids wrecked the rooms. She said the Hells Angels can come back anytime. Guess you never know.

 
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(Login Rev_Eddie)

short term memory....

July 14 2009, 9:05 PM 


Has everyone forgotten the fun on BLIII....?


[linked image]>




 
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David E.B. Smith
(no login)

Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 12:40 AM 

"But, oddly, many of the tales from Steamboat are stories of police overreacting rather than of drunken bikers dragging the town's daughters out of their beds and beating concerned boyfriends with beer bottles.

In the end, there wasn't a single arrest. A half-dozen locals got stomped, but even they admit they started it, even if they didn't deserve it. Two Hells Angels were shot, likely by other Angels, but the bikers police themselves and gave local authorities no opportunity to intervene."

The HA's national meeting overlapped with the BMWRT.COM Unrally in Gunnison a few years ago. We stayed in the same motels, they went their way, we went ours, there were no issues.

The problems with locals arise when locals cause problems. The problems with law enforcement arise when law enforcement insists on control rather than containment. The HAs on a run will be gone in a few days and are a self-limiting problem. They're like a swarm of bees that landed in your back yard. Leave them alone and they'll fly away, poke at them and pay the price.

 
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John C
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Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 1:07 AM 

David,a murder was committed and sanitized while the hells angels were in town. As an officer of the court, I'm suprised at how lightly you approach this.

Law and order took a holiday. Someone got dead, others got stabbed and beaten.

To put it in context for you, how about if the Hells had some housing violations on their clubhouse in your jurisdiction. When your employees attempt to address this, they are surrounded by HA and quickly leave the area in fear of their lives. No action is taken and your job is not completed. But all the people at the corner liquour store say how nice they are and give them a break because they are spending their money here. Oh, and don't pay attention to the murder that happened in the same house. Boys will be boys.

Time for people to get their head out of the sand.

 
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Bart
(no login)

Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 1:49 AM 

HA: Worse than unauthorized CIA hit squads (Sy Hersh was right), but less effective and more likely to leave town quicker. Plus, since almost every HA member is [allegedly] probably carrying illegal drugs and firearms, they're more likely to behave themselves, lest they draw the appropriate attention of attentive officers of the court.

Not that I know anything. Continue to pee, by all means.

 
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(Login BobTob)

Hells Angels

July 15 2009, 7:25 AM 

is an organized bunch of criminals, and to treat them any other way is a farce. Sure, they may leave some money in your town, or not.

I am with John,they think they can take over a town, play their games and mayhem, while stomping on the rules the rest of us live by.

I am with the SWAT team, if any look like they are causing trouble, target practice.

Allowing these hoodlums to spread their chaos throughout the country is a mistake. They are organized crime,and should be contained or eliminated.

I hope all goes well in Cloquet. I won't be there to observe, there is no mystery to these bullies, thugs,losers and drug addicts to me,they are what they are, scum of the earth.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)

Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 12:54 PM 

Anonymous on purpose
To give it a little more perspective, a good chunk of the dime they spend they got from your kid or your neighbors kid that begged, borrowed, or stole your GPS or laptop to pay for the drugs they sell or the girl they pimped.
They are one of the world's largest international illegal drug wholesalers. These S**Theads are not the wild bunch from from Marlon Brandon movies, they are one of the most sophisticated organized crime syndicates in the world. Their patch, the Outlaw's of Chicago, the Mongol's, and the Bandito patch should be their prison pass.
And another thing, they are not in Duluth because it is a great vacation spot- they have work to do.

 
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Bart
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Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 1:06 PM 

Of course, if there were no such thing as the "war on drugs," these bad actors would have to find a different line of business. Sure, they're a crime syndicate - so is Goldman Sachs, except bankers wear tailored suits and buy government protection, occasionally with our tax dollars...

I just thought it a bit silly to have a pissing match over how best to handle undesirables showing up in your community. No one was romanticizing these people. Obviously, overworked and underpaid LEOs shouldn't have to deal with this but then the world, it's a dangerous, messed-up place.

 
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discochris
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Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 1:38 PM 

Of course, if there were no such thing as the "war on drugs," these bad actors would have to find a different line of business.

Bart is exactly right with the above statement. Prohibition made guys like Capone rich in the 1930's, and it does the same thing today. Take away their high-profit margins, and you take away a lot of the power held by criminal groups.

But hey, nobody else votes libertarian, so I guess most folks don't think this way.

 
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David E.B. Smith
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Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 6:39 PM 

David,a murder was committed and sanitized while the hells angels were in town. As an officer of the court, I'm suprised at how lightly you approach this.

According to the story you quoted, a double shooting occurred, not a murder. And it was HAs who got shot, not any townspeople. As an officer of the court, facts are important things. Wrong facts fuel misconceptions, misconceptions lead to hysteria, hysteria leads to mistakes.

I don't approach this lightly. I approach this realistically. The reality is that when the HAs are on one of their runs, they're not looking to bring down heat upon themselves and they're not looking to cause trouble. They're not looking to rape and plunder the town. Whatever they're doing among themselves does not affect you and shortly they'll be on their way. The reality is also that they're not going to back down from provocation, and if you mess with them, you'd better be prepared.

So if your job as a police officer is to keep the peace, you have two choices when the HAs come to town. You can keep them contained, keep your local jerks from messing with them, and breath a sign of relief when they leave town in 6 days and none of your local people got hurt.

Or you can decide that you have to show them who's boss. In which case you'd better have called in reinforcements from 6 counties around to equalize the numbers. You can harass them on general principles until they call in their lawyers and get you enjoined from violating their civil rights. Then they'll be laughing at you because you can't do anything unless you actually catch them violating the law, which they won't do in public. So if it really bothers you that they're running wild in their compound, and if you can come up with some probable cause to go in, you can get your SWAT team together (and those of the 6 counties you called in for reinforcements), and start a war like Waco, and get a bunch of your fellow officers hurt. And you'll probably come up with nothing more than some guns and dope that you can't connect to anybody in particular.

People do stupid things on bikes because the red mist takes over and they start thinking with their gonads instead of their heads. Law enforcement falls into the same trap. There are some battles that, when analyzed coolly and calmly, are best avoided for another day. Picking a fight with the HAs when you don't have to accomplishes nothing but ego gratification.

I've been shoulder-to-shoulder with police officers outnumbered by an angry mob, and fortunately, they listened to their commanders, held their ground, didn't let themselves get goaded into a fight, and everybody went home in one piece. And the next day, we found the ringleaders when they were by themselves and quietly took them in.

Now, it's a different story if they're setting up shop in your town. That you have to deal with and have no tolerance for. But I've put together cases against worse gangs than the HAs, and we didn't immediately bust in on some lame charges to find ourselves outnumbered, we watched and waited while they built up their criminal business and then rolled them all up in ones and twos. But that's not what the HAs are in town for on a run. If you don't know the difference, you're applying the wrong solution to the wrong problem.



 
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Aaron
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Sweet stuff! And now for something completly different:

July 15 2009, 9:08 PM 

Anyone notice Sotomayor dodge guns and abortion... just kidding!


 
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Bart
(no login)

"the red mist takes over"

July 15 2009, 9:30 PM 

http://tinyurl.com/n9peyy

At least the three DUI idiot is dead too.

I'm going to ride the K bike to Montana tomorrow and try to cleanse (or at least not injure) myself.

 
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John C
(no login)

Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 11:35 PM 

I think we agree on that if they are setting up shop in your city then you have to hit them hard. But I just can't get on board with you that it's okay if they take over for a short time. I was in Steamboat in Sept of 96 and the locals were still up in arms about what happened. I didn't hear any of the "but their money spends" types of comments featured in the article. Perhaps that developed after four years of pretending it wasn't so bad to lose control of your town to self described outlaws. People at that time were pretty upset about what had happened (at the HA, not the cops), and I was driven by the hotel they used as their compound and told about the "murder" that had happened there that they kept away from the cops. Perhaps that misinformation stuck for me. Besides, a murder is just an assault where the victim was uncooperative. Does it make my point that much different if it was two attempted murders? Here's some background on the assaults that the locals "provoked":

http://www.missoulian.com/specials/hellsangels/ha05.html

Privacy protected to the point of violence

STEAMBOAT SPRINGS, Colo. - A knot of burly bikers speeds across the television screen with a herky-jerky hyperactivity, like so many Keystone Kops scrambling across a grainy black and white backdrop.

"Here it is," J.D. Hays says, rewinding the videotape. "Here's where the pummeling begins."

It is, to be sure, one of the most vicious and efficient butt-kickings ever captured on film. The fellow on the receiving end is big - 6 feet, 4 inches, to be exact - and yet beneath the swarm of fists and boots he seems a pint-sized rag-doll.

Hays is police chief in Steamboat Springs, and he's reviewing one of the half-dozen bar fights that kept his department busy the weekend in 1996 when the Hells Angels came to town. This is the only one captured on a bar security camera.

The first punch is thrown, the big local guy drops, is set upon in a frenzy of violence. Fists and boots connect with his head, ribs and groin. Somebody rips a pay phone off the wall and crashes it into his skull. In seven swift seconds, he's reduced from brawny bartender to unconscious victim, thrown bodily out the back door. In another three seconds, the room goes back to normal, high-fives all around, tables turned upright, spilled beers salvaged.

Ten seconds. It's very, very fast and very, very effective. Somebody has been practicing.

"I tried to strike up a conversation," recalls J.J. Johnson, the bartender who found himself lying outside the bar. "But he didn't want to talk."

Johnson had asked a Hells Angel where he was from, but was waved away.

"Are you shooing me away?" he'd asked.

"Yeah, I don't want to talk to you," the Angel replied.

Later, Johnson was laughing with a friend when the same Hells Angel walked by.

"Are you laughing at me?"

Johnson couldn't help himself. He pulled the trigger.

"Yeah."

And the pummeling began.

"It was like going through a gantlet of blows," he remembers. "I figure I took at least 75 blows."

While he admits he baited the biker, he insists he didn't deserve the beating he took.

"I wouldn't say it was an unprovoked attack," he says, "but it was my town. I was in my bar, and I just couldn't swallow my pride. I couldn't let them just take over."

Looking back, he recommends a cooler head when the Angels are in town.

"Practice abstinence for a while," he says. "Stay out of the bars. Go on vacation."

Kent Morrison offers the same advice. He took his beating after infiltrating the Hells Angels' lair in the dead of night.

How to handle a visit from the Angels? "That's simple," Morrison says. "Go home and stay there until they leave town. ... Have a weekend in the country. Go visit your mother."

Morrison is a former member of the Army's special forces, trained in reconnaissance. After a few too many drinks, he decided to take a shot at penetrating the Hells Angels' "compound," a motel they'd surrounded with perimeter guards and rooftop sentries.

"Nobody even thought of going in," he says. "The cops were petrified. The place was a fortress, heavily patrolled, but I got in."

Perhaps he should've stayed out.

Dressed in camouflage, he slipped past the bikers, settled into a lawn chair next to a huge tattooed Angel, and struck up a conversation.

"The last words I remember saying were, 'Don't you want to know how I got in?' "

His advice, now that his jaw has healed: "Don't try to interact. These are guys who value their privacy to the point of violence."

Daniel Sowerby also learned that lesson the hard way. The transplant from New Zealand doesn't really know why he took his beating, but he admits he's a bit of a "smart ass," and that might have had something to do with it.

Like Morrison and Johnson before him, Sowerby had been tipping back a few drinks when he found trouble in the guise of a Angel.

"I'm not too sure what happened," he says. "I got kicked out of the bar because I was just being myself, I guess."

He had been trying to hold down his territory in the face of a biker invasion, and the bartender thought it better that he retreat.

Once outside, a Hells Angel stomped up and asked if he were the guy who had just been "86'd." Sowerby was talking to a friend, and didn't want to be interrupted.

Like Johnson, he came up with the wrong answer.

"Yes."

"Then five of them approached me and it was all over," Sowerby remembers. "I was on the ground in my own blood looking at my teeth."

He had been knocked cold before he knew what hit him and was bleeding from a knife wound to the butt. His friend, an innocent bystander who was pulled into the fray, eventually needed $5,000 in plastic surgery to rebuild his face.

"I'm notorious for being a smart mouth," Sowerby says. "They just took it upon themselves to be tough guys."

And, as with most encounters with the Hells Angels, there was little thought of pressing charges:

"Yeah, officer, it was four or five guys with huge leather jackets and beards. Right."

And anyway, he says, "The only difference between the cops and the Hells Angels is that one's legal and one's not."

Police Chief Hays believes there's more difference than Sowerby cares to acknowledge.

"If you just totally left them (the Hells Angels) alone, did not talk to them, there was no problem," Hays says. But if you engaged the bikers, came up with the wrong answer, he says, then "it was always five or six or eight Hells Angels pummeling some poor schmuck."

There is a difference between that and a run-in with police, Hays says: "Sure, some of the locals brought it on, but if somebody snickered at me, I wouldn't stomp him into the ground."



Or perhaps I was thinking of this bloodbath to the HA and murder:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2002/Apr-28-Sun-2002/news/18627447.html

"Dozens of members of rival motorcycle gangs battled inside Harrah's Laughlin with guns, knives and hammers early Saturday.

Three people were killed and another 13 were taken to area hospitals with gunshot and stab wounds.

Police said as many as 70 people participated in the melee, which occurred during the Laughlin River Run, a popular five-day event that annually attracts 40,000 to 80,000 motorcycle enthusiasts to the casino town 80 miles south of Las Vegas. "

I'm sure Laughlin residents were comforted with false promises that the bikers were there for vacation and that anything bad that would happen would be in private. I've seen video from that incident, and it's amazing no innocents were hurt.

What prompted this (and perhaps I took the bait) is your belittling the Duluth PD's intelligence. Quite frankly, I know some things you don't know about this, and some things you will never know about this.



I've had personal and professional contact with outlaw bikers. They can be very charming, but make no mistake, they are very dangerous. Your comments on this seem to agree with this assessment. Perhaps we could arrange for them to come and visit YOUR state instead of mine.





 
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John C
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Re: short term memory....

July 15 2009, 11:37 PM 

Oh, but I did like the use of "hepcat" in your original post.

 
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(no login)

Re: short term memory....

July 16 2009, 12:01 AM 

I'm just hoping that they don't stray as far as Iron River that weekend, although if I remember correctly, the HAMC doesn't have a presence in Wisconsin, as that's Chicago territory, which if I remember, is the Outlaws. Either way, I'll be not going to the cabin via Duluth that weekend.

My one on one interactions with 1%'ers has always been fine, but I suspect that in a group, it might not be so cool.

 
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(no login)

Re: short term memory....

July 16 2009, 12:03 AM 

Since I'm picking up my new ride at Duluth HD on Friday, I might just ask what they think of the whole deal, just out of curiosity...

 
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(Login kperson)

Re: short term memory....

July 16 2009, 12:46 AM 

I briefly rode in formation with an HA last weekend in CO. We were in heavy traffic at high speed on I-76 leaving Denver, riding staggered in the left lane. Thought we had a real vibe going, we were a team, a couple of brotha's slabbing it at 80. Then he got tired of it and decided to kick it up a notch and filter down the dotted line at 85+. Huh, you think you know someone...

 
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David E.B. Smith
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Re: short term memory....

July 16 2009, 1:17 PM 

What prompted this (and perhaps I took the bait) is your belittling the Duluth PD's intelligence. Quite frankly, I know some things you don't know about this, and some things you will never know about this.

Does Duluth PD have real, specific information that the HAs are "targeting local citizens for assault"? If they do, they can take the appropriate action to prevent the crimes before they occur, and they should do it and not talk about it. If not, either they're misinformed or they're spreading misinformation that is just going to terrorize the public. Better to tell people to go about their business and don't interact with the HAs, then to frighten them into thinking that every long-haired biker in a leather jacket is looking to randomly commit unprovoked mayhem on unsuspecting citizens.

If this was down South, like Texas or Georgia, telling the citizenry that the HAs are "targeting local citizens for assault" would be a sure-fire way to rile folks up and ensure that somebody got shot. Fortunately the citizens of Minnesota are much more level-headed.

 
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Lurleen
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Hey!!

July 16 2009, 4:00 PM 

Ok, I was going along enjoying this spirited debate until you had to go and regionalize it. WTH does being down south have to do with any of this?

I love you Mr. E.B. Smith but don't go playing the stupid, redneck card. I've been spending a lot of time in the upper, mid-west in recent years and believe me - we don't have a monopoly on ignorance down here in my beloved southland.

Can we all just agree that there are violent, organized criminal elements in every part of the world and the media will go to almost any length to cause us "normal" people to fear those elements? I have found that when you take ignorance, cowardice and that basic human survival instinct to go with the "pack", add in a nice helping of testosterone and you will have yourself a nice recipe for a basic, roadhouse brawl - or worse.

That's right - I just played the gender card...

Lisa

 
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David E.B. Smith
(no login)

Re: Hey!!

July 16 2009, 11:11 PM 

I said that because Southerners love to pack shootin' irons and have that "prickly" southern honor thing and the Minnesota folks are pacifist liberals who elect comedians to represent them.

Does that suffice to antagonize everybody or what? happy.gif


 
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(Login BobTob)

Bullies and Cowards

July 17 2009, 1:01 AM 

No need to pick, that's all they are, notice how they always outnumber their target,and pummel after said person is down.

Put an equal number of armed law enforcers in the town,and suddenly they can be docile.

What offends me is, that in the USA we let gangs get away with this crap. The Fed should keep such pressure on these guys, that they would stay in their caves, rather than come into our world.

Sure there are hotheads,and trouble causers everywhere, but gangs of hotheads rolling through whatever small town they choose to terroize,is just plain wrong.


These guys are outlaws,no other name applies. There is no romance in this for the average Joe.

To let them be, boys will boys,etc etc is an offense on everyone who obeys the law. We need a modern day Wyatt Earp. Just leave your guns,knives,and other tools of destruction here at the edge of town, and enjoy your stay, otherwise stay the hell out.


Ride with outlaws,die with outlaws

 
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Winterer
(no login)

Bullies ...

July 17 2009, 8:59 AM 

<<Just leave your guns,knives,and other tools of destruction here at the edge of town, and enjoy your stay, otherwise stay the hell out.>>

They tried that here in St. Paul during the gangster era and it didn't work so well. Much has been written about this in our local newspapers lately because of "Public Enemies," the film about John Dillinger.

The St. Paul cops gave prominent gangsters a free pass to come and go here as they please, as long as they didn't do their shootin' and bank robbin' here in town.

This has been an interesting discussion. It would be hard to refute the proposition that the public perception of the Hell's Angels (accurate or not, it doesn't matter) has been the single-most-significant influence behind the vast chopper-cruiser phenomenon that swept (some might say plagued) the U.S. the past quarter century.

HA is money in the bank for the Motor Company.

Jim

 
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Lurleen
(no login)

Re: Hey!!

July 17 2009, 7:53 AM 

Well, ok... when you put it that way..

I do have a couple of firearms (which drives my liberal, pacifist, Minnesotan, fiance' crazy) and I obviously get a bit "prickly" when people start picking on southerners. But don't go stereotyping me!

I can't be too critical on the comedians in politics thing - my fellow Georgians did elect Ben "Cooter" Jones to Congress back in the late 80's.

In MHO the only good politician is a dead one.

Now back to the Hell's Angels diatribe...

Lurleen

 
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Keith Collins
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Re: Hey!!

July 17 2009, 12:47 PM 

What state do you come from David.

 
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John C
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Re: Hey!!

July 17 2009, 10:36 AM 

Uh, oh. Now you've gone and done it David. I'm out.

 
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David E.B. Smith
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Re: Hey!!

July 17 2009, 11:25 PM 

Keith asked:

What state do you come from David.

I'm from Illinois, home of Rod Blagojevich.

Minnesota elected a comedian, in Illinois we elected a joke. happy.gif


 
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Anonymous
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Way cool!

July 18 2009, 11:10 AM 

Didn't know these guys were still around.....

 
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John C
(no login)

Don't forget

July 18 2009, 7:36 PM 

that idiot wrassler we elected govnah a few years back. In recent history, I still think we win for sending idiots into office. Now historically, Illinois may have us beat.

 
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Wayne Koppa #510
(no login)

Were Number #1

July 19 2009, 9:29 AM 

You guys don't even come close.

Michigan is more than just Number 1 in unemployment.

Our politicians make astrology look like a known science.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI

PS - On the non-governmental side - during this week - within 20 miles of Grayling we have:

40 mile Spikes Challenge Canoe Race

Cycle Conservation Club Six Days of Michigan Trail Ridehttp://www.cycleconservationclub.org/

Lansing Motorcycle Club Pine Cone Enduro

62nd AuSable Canoe Marathon $50,000 Pursehttp://www.ausablecanoemarathon.org/

82nd Jackpine Endurohttp://www.lansingmotorcycleclub.org/

Avita Water Black Bear Bicycle Tourhttp://www.grayling-area.com/blackbear2009/

If you want to paddle, peddle or ride you can find something.

Before my time in the late 60's this community of 2,000 had a motorcycle incident which involved an act of CSC in the middle of the day in a tavern shortly followed by a shotgun killing. Bikers were coming back to have their way with the community so they gunned up with rooftop sentries that included Larry who was asked by the police to bring his not-so-secret belt fed WWII belt fed machine gun. After a month of that things quieted down.

Times have changed but Larry is still available.

When I hear that if we didn't have the War on Drugs I think of Mexico and how some of the criminals have shifted to kidnapping because selling drugs locally is not that profitable.

These guys are going to find a way to take money or make money in ways society does not need. Fixing this isn't easily done through social engineering.

There is an old Russian Ouote that I think applies. Goes something like this.
Death is the best solution. No Person - No Problem.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI


 
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Lurleen
(no login)

Speaking of old quotes

July 19 2009, 7:04 PM 

We have an old southern quote:

Some men just need killin'...

Simple, straight forward and sometimes valid.

Lurleen

 
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rdr#1
(no login)

Re: Were Number #1

July 19 2009, 8:12 PM 

......Belt fed....sweet!
A good gunner or two with enough ammo and spare barrels.....in the right place's...yeah,you can pretty much own the town with this set up.
He had a 30.cal., and they let him?
Nice to have friends in the local PD, or they were protecting themselves from the big invassion from Canada.........

 
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(Login discochris)

Re: Were Number #1

July 19 2009, 10:25 PM 

I asked the sales guy at Duluth HD on Friday when I picked up my new/used Buell what he thought of the impending "invasion."

He just shook his head and laughed and said "I don't expect those guys to be coming in and buying a bunch of t-shirts like most of the groups who ride through here. I expect there will be a lot of locals just trying to get a glimpse of what's going on, but then again, I'll be at a wedding that weekend, so thankfully, I won't have to deal with it."

I said, "but I bet you're stocked up on parts, with 1000 possible HD riders 20 miles away."

He said "that we are - it could be a very good weekend for business in that respect."

 
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