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conflicting thoughts, options, measures...

January 14 2004 at 7:41 PM
Kath  (no login)

"Society says" alot of things, and there is a protocol to pretty much everything, and that includes a manner of dress.

I am conflicting with my beliefs here, but I have to admit what is so. In as much as I would love to burn the few bras that I still have left and never touch one again, I know that there will always be occasions where I either must bra, or must make sure that my bralessness is concealed. I wish it werent so, but it is so.

In as much as I would love to go without everywhere, I know that certain places ..such as the office, it goes against the protocol and societal expectations. I must admit, if I saw a co-worker show up to the office tomorrow jiggling and/or nipping and obviously braless....while part of me would think "you go girl", another part of me would be somewhat uncomfortable working with her in that environment. It would be a distraction to all I think.

Geez, I feel like a traitor! I can't believe I"m writing this, because I continue to believe in brafreedom and hope everyone experiences it some day. However, I do know that there is a time and place for it. That's not to say that one should wear one to such places as work. It just means that one should at least freeboob it there with some discretion, whether is be with a bra substitute such as a camisole, pasties, or thicker tops/vests/blazers etc.

This is why I stuggle with the concept of freeboobing it to the office, and why I still have yet to burn all my bras. Believe me, I am still going on with the goal of going completely 100% bra-free, but with some caution as to how I go about doing so.

I had many talks, and a recent lengthy discussion about my going 100% free with my partner this past weekend, and we have an informal "plan of attack", if you will - for going about achieving that freedom goal.

For now, I have cleaned out my bra drawer of most bras I owned, only hanging onto a handful of the most comfortable and functional ones. I now own around a half dozen bras. As they wear, they will be disgarded and not replaced. I am making a slow transition to complete bralessness by going braless to work whenever the outfit allows me to do so discreetly, by substituting my bras with camisoles when possible, and by gradually eliminating my bra inventory (as per Michaela's recommendation some time ago).

My issues are both nipples and jiggle. I think the nipple issue (mine are prominent) is somethign I will just have to live with. I've always had visable nipples (even with a bra on), so there's not much that can be done there other than to choose work clothing that masks it somewhat. I will cami it under blouses and such for good measure.

As for the jiggle issue, well my partner and I have looked into the options for this one as well, and the one we are leaning towards is a breast lift which would firm things up, and hense reduce jiggle/sway that I have now. I know this sounds drastic, but it is a viable option that would enable me to go braless at work with more discretion. Heck, we even did the math and on the money we'd save on bras over the years, the operation would pay for itself over time.

Im not crazy about operations nor the cost involved, but nor am I crazy about bras.

We are doing our research now, and I have an appointment with a plastic surgeon next month to see about it all.

Is this too drastic????? Again, we are just entertaining this option at this point in time.

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(no login)


January 14 2004, 8:15 PM 

"I must admit, if I saw a co-worker show up to the office tomorrow jiggling and/or nipping and obviously braless....while part of me would think "you go girl", another part of me would be somewhat uncomfortable working with her in that environment. It would be a distraction to all I think."

There's a group of people who call themselves "furries" - in general this encompasses fans of cartoon animals that look like people. A lot of them even dress up as furry animals, spending a lot of time making their own costumes. They'll sometimes have conventions where they dress up and show off their work.

It's pretty harmless fun, but still... if you were working with a giant raccoon, you'd find it a little hard to ignore, and it might be hard to get work done as easily.

Is this the type of distracting that you'd feel with a noticably brafree female co-worker?

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January 14 2004, 9:00 PM 


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January 15 2004, 8:51 PM 

What I was getting at is, when you said you find a woman's breast movement distracting, I don't know what kind of "distracting" you mean. There are some distractions that you can get used to (odd carpeting colour), some you can't, and are just obnoxious (piercing shreik from a smoke detector), and some you can't get used to, but are otherwise harmless (dressing up as cartoon animals is the example I gave).

Just wondering which category would you put breast distractions - something you might get used to if it happened normally, for a year or so, or something that you think would always have an effect on you?

Does it make a difference if it's you or another woman's breasts - that is, if you go brafree, do you find yourself not even realising it at points during the day, or does it constantly make the day "feel" different, even when you don't stop to thing about what that difference is? Similarly, if another woman who you were working with were brafree, do you think you'd get used to that?

As far as the surgery, I'd only ask if you'd miss any of the things it would change. If your own breast movement is something you simply don't ever like, then surgery to eliminate it is a reasonable thing to do, if you're ready for it. In a sense, it's similar to getting eye surgery to not need glasses (not exactly the same - if you need glasses, you probably can't function well without them, wheras you can probably function better without a bra).

In any case, good luck with a) brafreedom b) surgery or tropical vacation at a topfree beach, whever you decide to spend the money on c) work and d) the weather, since you can always use better weather.

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The point of the forum...

January 14 2004, 9:24 PM 

You are conflicted. Please forgive me, Kath, but... You have told us all this before, several times. The part about the surgery is new, however, and kind of a shock.

I don't get you really. How is it that a person who has her nipples pierced is not more into her natural breasts? Whether they appear to be braless, or move, or hang a bit. It seems to me this whole subject of breast freedom is to help bolster womens body image. Society HAS brainwashed us if we think we need surgery to stop the movement of our breasts. Society is wrong, and you should really not buy into any of that.

Unless you are like the woman I saw on Oprah when I was on vacation who lost a ton of weight and her breasts were huge empty sacks laying flat against her chest and stomach all the way down to her waist band. She got a lift and needed it. Do you? Really?

(sorry if that was rough)

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The point

January 14 2004, 10:21 PM 

The point of this forum is breast FREEDOM.

At least from my point of view. I think that a woman has a right to make HER own informed choice as to what see does or does NOT do with her breasts. I may not agree with her choice(s) but I believe that she should have the choice.

Now in relation to Kath, I have no problem with her decision to getting a lift, IF she feels as if that is in her best interest. At least she is NOT getting implants or other surgery but just a nip and tuck here and there! I know that this is surgery but if she feels as if that is what makes her happy she has the right to make that choice.

Sorry if that sounds harsh and counter to our discussions in the past about Breast Freedom but that is how I see it!

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Re: the point of the forum

January 14 2004, 11:29 PM 

I tend to agree with what Michaela wrote. It's your body, but I don't understand why a little jiggle would concern you. If on the other hand, you lost alot of weight and have loose skin or something like that, then that is something else entirely.

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Well, it's up to you

January 15 2004, 1:01 AM 

But to be honest, I hate the idea of surgery unless you're really in discomfort. I guess I'm a "naturist"--I think boobs are fine however the individual woman is equipped, be they bouncy or droopy or nipply (sounds like friends of Snow White there) or even just plain tiny. It seems like there's a lot of variety out there, and I say they're all good. The idea of a woman letting her lovely breasts be attacked with a sharp knife just makes me cringe.

Personally, it wouldn't faze me greatly if a woman I worked with went braless and it was noticeable. I'd have more trouble with excessive display of cleavage, very short skirts etc, but just breasts being breasts under somebody's clothing seem harmless enough. It might be annoying if she were obviously looking for attention, but then the attitude would be the problem, not the breasts.

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body image issues

January 15 2004, 5:26 AM 

I feel so sad that you feel this is even an option. Surely the whole point of this group is to encourage people to have confidence and acceptance of their bodies as they are. Body image is such a difficult subject because of the pressures placed, mainly on women, but not exclusively these days, to conform with what the fashion industry sees as the norm. This is of course not what your average person in the street sees as normal nor even desirable in many cases. My wife surely has no anorexic 15 year old body, but I love her dearly even so. The point is that a woman should be able to appreciate and enjoy her body image no matter what otheres say or even think.
I would say forget the operation, slowly phase out the bras and spend the money you save on a nice holiday somewhere!

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I agree

January 15 2004, 10:55 AM 

I must agree with David, in that I think Kath should take the savings from not purchasing more bras and use it for a nice holiday, and not a breast lift. Yet, on the other hand, if one needed a breast lift for health reasons or for their own confidence ( which I do not think Kath needs, as I beleive she is one of the most confident women on this forum )then by all means have the breast lift. I just do not think one needs a breast lift just so she can be more "non noticably braless".

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I figured

January 15 2004, 2:48 PM 

I figured some would have a problem with my potential surgery, and disappointed so far that few seem to support the idea.

I don't see it as a negative thing, and Im' certainly not going to get it due to "pressure". What pressure? Nobody ever suggested I needed it, and my boobs really arent that saggy, they just move a little too much when I walk for my liking. Frankly, it sometimes distracts myself! I am pierced and thus more sensitive there don't forget.

A breast lift is simply a body improvement proceedure. It is not any different than braces, teeth venears, a new hairstyle with color, working out/dieting to get leaner/muscular, colored contact lenses, and such. We're not talking implants and making me Dolly Parton, we're talking about firming up what I already have....turning back the clock if you will. It's not like I"m going to be a female Michael Jackson (ie. Latoya Jackson). I dont see anything wrong with improving my look without changing it...The side benefit being less jiggle and sway and therefore enabling me to burn my bras once and for all.

How many of you die your hair, get styled, workout (and few workout JUST for the health benefits...we all want to lose inches and tone up) etc? Isnt that altering your body?

The proceedure I"m looking at is called The Lazer Bra ( similar to http://www.stevenslaserbra.com/) , which in a nutshell forms an internal bra inside of the breast...thus lifting and shaping it while maintaining a natural shape and look.

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it's up to you...

January 15 2004, 3:28 PM 

"How many of you die your hair, get styled, workout (and few workout JUST for the health benefits...we all want to lose inches and tone up) etc? Isnt that altering your body?"

However, none of these things you mentioned are surgical proceedures. What if it gets botched?

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it is up to her

January 15 2004, 5:49 PM 

Breast augmentation/surgery is about as routine as dental work these days, and the most common of all cosmetic surgeries. The risk is minimal, although site will glorify those botched jobs, which are usually from days gone by and by non certified board membered surgeons. aka. Mexico.

I think it's great that you wish to improve the look of your breasts. It is, last I checked, called "breast FREEDOM". Be free to chose Kath.

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January 16 2004, 1:18 AM 

"A breast lift is simply a body improvement proceedure. It is not any different than braces, teeth venears, a new hairstyle with color, working out/dieting to get leaner/muscular, colored contact lenses, and such."

some things to consider:
-Any surgery has risks. Surgery is not really comparable to exercise. Unless you get hit by a car while jogging, it has essentially zero risk and huge health benefits. A breast lift has no health benefits. Jogging typically doesn't leave you with scar tissue.
-Some research points to breast surgery as having the possibility of stimulating the growth of abnormal cells. Surgery causes scar tissue that has the potential of disrupting breast circulation.
-A medical opinion from someone who stands to gain financially from your decision has a substantial potential for bias. A second opinion from a non-surgeon medical doctor could be useful.
-Any surgery has the potential for loss of skin sensitivity; just ask your family doctor. Some women find a loss of sensitivity (even telling hot from cold) after breast reduction or augmentation. Is removing a little natural bounce really worth even any chance of breast numbness?
One study showed that 20 to 30% of breast reduction patients had difficulty telling hot from cold in their nipple/areola and another recent study of 25 women [Ann Plast Surg. 2003 Jul; 51(1): 1-5. Sensibility of the breast after reduction mammaplasty.] accurately measured breast sensitivity at several points on the skin surface and determined that, "After surgery all patients had decreased sensation in all points studied, and this was significant." (According to the authors, this recent study was really the first to accurately measure such sensitivity.) Yes, breast reduction is not exactly the same as a lift, but both are surgery, and all surgery involves cutting, scar tissue, and the possibility of loss of skin sentivity.

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Re: conflicting thoughts, options, measures...

January 15 2004, 3:24 PM 

I'd never ever think about doing a thing like lifting nor anything else (and I jiggle a lot). It's the way I am. And I accept it, more: I am proud of it and I want others to accept it as well. I'd never have a face lift either. There is no need to look younger than I am (58). That's what I consider self-confidence to be.

The whole problem boils down to being worried about what we think other people might think. (John said that somewhere, I believe). It's not living, it's being lived by others. My advise: it's not worth the money, not to speak about the risks (face lifts sometimes end up worse than before).

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January 16 2004, 1:21 AM 

My advise: it's not worth the money, not to speak about the risks (face lifts sometimes end up worse than before).

----Just take a look at a photo of Michael Jackson.

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Re: M.J.

January 16 2004, 12:14 PM 

I think he went overboard and instead of just having his original nose made a little smaller, he had surgery after surgery so he could look like someone else. I heard somewhere that he was going for the look of a child. Now he just looks like an old woman.

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Re: Re: M.J.

January 17 2004, 9:53 AM 

He is actually a little closer to looking like the "cript keeper."

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Cindiee Sherwood
(Login cyndiee)

Jiggle and nipples

January 21 2004, 7:27 AM 

I have small boobs, 32b and my nipples are very prominent, trust me.
What I do a lot, is to buy the round covers that adhere to the skin and cover my nipples perfectly. If one does not want to spend money on that, taping over them with scotch tape does the trick as well.
As far as the jiggling is concerned, well, since mine are not that big, I don't that much of a problem, unless I jump or run, etc.
I just got used to not wearing a bra and so far, nobody of my friends or other women made ever a negative comment.

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