I have been a sports fan for decades, but so many things have occurred that leave me cold to it. The athletes and sports that I enjoyed growing up have lost a lot of their integrity and significance.
Barry Bonds is chasing the all-time home run record. Normally, this would thrill the fans . . in a small way, it is history. But, his apparent use of steriods to achieve the record robs it of its usual significance. Babe Ruth's single season HR record stood for over 40 years before Roger Maris broke it. Then, another 35+ years passed before it was broken again . . this time by two players in the same year! Then just 2-3 years later, Barry Bonds set the current record. All three of these latter players have been implicated in steriod use. Baseball, probably more than most major sports, is driven by statistics: era, ba, obp, and the various records. The current problem with performance-enhancing drugs renders play on the field increasingly meaningless. MLB banned Pete Rose for life because he bet on games, but Bonds gets to compete for records despite the chemical help he has used to get there? The integrity of the game is hurt by drug use that affects play on the field and milestones achieved.
In auto racing, female driver Danica Patrick is heralded as "the next coming", but she hasn't won a single major event. Obviously, she gets the unearned billing because she is female, in a male-dominated sport, and a pretty one at that. People have made fun of Anna Kournikova for failing to win a single major tennis championship, so how long will it take for Danica to fade if she doesn't win? Will the difference be that Anna K. competed against women, while Danica is competing against men . . in a sport that hopes to increase its following with such gentle-battle dramas? Either way, I think sports stars should EARN their accolades, not have them bestoyed due to gender, race, etc.
Major pro sports have runaway costs, mostly due to outrageous money being thrown at athletes. Anyone who objects to this is accused of being "jealous" of high-paid athletes (and possibly "racist", if the athlete is black and the people objecting are white). The result of this is terrible for the sports, the communities and the fans. High contracts HAVE NOT resulted in better play on the field -- in my opinion, its often worse than what I grew up watching. The costs of paying high contracts put pressures on sports franchises and cities to keep uping revenues. Cities are told, "Build us this new stadium, at taxpayer expense, or we'll leave to another city." (and some do). Cities compete against each other to obtain and keep teams. The average citizen is not only paying through increased/diverted taxes, but also in high costs to see games in the stadiums that he/she helped to pay for. In the NFL, fans now are required to purchase "seat licenses" for thousands of dollars -- all this buys is the OPPORTUNITY to then buy a season ticket . . . . at whatever price increases the team ownership chooses . . . and failing to buy the season ticket forfeits the money paid for the license. Add to this the costs for parking (easily $10 per game, often more), food and drink ($5 or more for a cup of beer . . $4 for a hot dog . . $7-8 for a sandwich).
And, following the game, if you try to greet a player . . most don't have time for anyone. They prance around like royalty . . too busy for the common folk who pay the bills. At "meet-and-greets", the athletes signing autographs seldom even look up as they sign and hand off photos. What arrogant assholes! When I was a kid, players were on "your" team for years . . perhaps their whole careers. Today, from one season to another, there are so many personnel changes, due to players/agents chasing money, that its hard to know who is on the team: Last year's strength can become this year's weakness . . the player on your team that you cheered last year has left this year to play for your fiercest rival.
The costs of televising major events is now so high that games are constantly interrupted by commercials. Ads are run across the screen more than game stats . . . ads are all over the stadiums . . hell, the public-built stadiums themselves are named after companies!
The problem has filtered down to college sports as well, with top high school players being recruited (like pros) as young as their Freshman year!. Such players don't tend to see a free college education as a valuable gift so much as THEIR gift to the "lucky" school they chose to sign with. Then, the players leave early for a career in the NFL or NBA . . and/or, they cause the school major problems by taking money from an agent or alumni, with resulting NCAA sanctions against the school.
OK . . enough ranting. It just burns me up that something that was such a pleasurable part of my childhood and young adulthood has become so corrupt, money-hungry, abusive toward fans and meaningless.
Couldn't agree more Bob. There was a time when guys played sports for the love of it and were grateful if they made enough money in the process to live on. Today the all mighty dollar is all that matters to them- and same with management. If a owner thinks he can make more money by moving to another town- he moves- the hell with the fans- they mean nothing. They are just fodder in the money machine. I lost interest in professional sports years ago.
Bob,
I agree so totally with what you wrote. I can hardly believe what I see and read about in sports today.
But there are other forms of sport happening. I am going to go out on a limb here and post a couple of my journal entries. They maight not make any sense, and y'all might think I have slipped a cog for posting these, but my point is this...those pros, their owners, and the sponsers are not really what sport is any more. There is so much going on behind the camera that no one knows about, or cares about except for the individual. But there are so many individuals that are doing this that it is something to ponder. Why do we? Good question.
may 22.
Tomorrow morning I have an early ride scheduled and during this ride I am planning on conquering a big hill I have not done yet. I am kinda worried about it. I hope I have the strength to do it. I don't want to fall and I don't want to walk. I want to ride all the way up it, either in the saddle or mashing out of it. And I want to have enough of myself left to finish the rest of the ride. More hills, on the back end! Have mercy!
may 25,
I blew myself up today climbing a big hill and rode super fast down another. (That first thing was frustrating, and the second thing was fun!) I am trashed! I will shower and think about words of encouragement and the upcoming Saturday ride up that same hill that killed me. Will I go out and try again tomorrow to accomplish that which I struggled with today? Maybe, and in the meantime I am just going to chill, and snuggle, (heavy sigh...), and have a beer. I am peacefully at home and happy about it. And no more mom's taxi for the summer! School's out! Yeah!
may 26,
I did it!!!!!! I went out again to face my nemesis today. Pursley Road is just straight up hill all the way. And tucked right in the midst of it just for a surprise, and right about when you are feeling too blown up to go further, there is a huge increase in grade. When you make it over that with the balls you didn't know you had, there's more hill, what?..for another mile maybe, I don't know. But today I did it! And with a gastly cross wind, no less. Have mercy! I mastered that monster. Now for a nice rest before tomorrows ride up that thing again. Yes!
may 28,
What I learned about myself Saturday is I am a speed demon. (Peter's words) I am competitive and strong and fast and no one can have an easy slow ride with me around. Sounds hard core! Sounds kick ass! It is, but I am also dropped on almost every hill. Hills are my weakness. I have to struggle to catch up after every hill.
So my plan is to actually earn that polka dot jersey I spoke about earlier. I am going to become an Angel of the Mountains by riding that course I rode Saturday everyday until I can fly up those hills without changing my cadence. I will be able to recover quickly once over the hill and I will never get dropped!
The rest of Pursley Road is all hill! The whole thing is one big I don't know how many miles hill! It never quits. It just keeps climbing and you can't get a rest, can't get a drink, nothing but heart exploding, knee breaking, kill you and send you to hell hills!
That's where I am gong to be this summer. As many mornings as I can will be spent there attacking each and every one of the miles of Pursley Road. My reward will always be the Mt. Gainer descent. It is a bumpy, country road with a steep downhill and blind curve. I managed to descend it yesterday without touching my brakes once. 40.5 miles per hour was my speed there. Pretty good for a short distance!
I have my goals laid out for myself this summer. I have a plan. Everyone seems to be supportive of me. I wonder if anything will come of it all beyond my own satisfaction with my ability. I wonder how much faster it will make me. I guess we shall soon see.
So Bob, Lets take the sports of America back, shall we? What do you want to do? I know you want to watch a game, like the games you watched when we were kids. How do we do this know. What can we do about it?
One would think, if you look around here ,that I AM in Mexico. But that is another string...illegal alien talk, and all that. I am here. I have been riding a lot, as you can see by the dates on that sample of my journal, and I have not had the energy to discuss Iraq. It is a tough subject. One can get fired up and all, but I thought Bob's change of subject was intriguing. One I might be able to get fired up about, a little!
I'm afraid things aren't much better here in FL. I made the mistake of going into Wal-Mart the other day and all I heard was spanish. Even all their signs are now bilingual. At the rate things are going I will be the one who needs a translator.
Knowing english is required for citizenship? If so I didn't know it. Then why do they print voting ballots, drivers tests and other public documents in spanish? Around here every paper the schools sends home to parents now has english on one side and spanish on the other.
I may have been facetious about everyone in the world speaking english- but I seriously do think everyone in the US should! There should be no need for all these bilingual stuff you see everywhere these days. And I'm not expecting anything that I would not expect of myself if I chose to move to a foreign country. Like I would not move to France and expect them to accommodate me with english signs and voting ballots. In fact, that's one of 5000 reasons I haven't moved to France.
Well I think the world would be a better place with less distrust and suspicion among people if everyone could communicate in a common language but I know that will never happen.
Yes, I heard about Esperanto decades ago. It appears to be basically spanish to me. If I was going to construct a artificial language I would make it much more simpler and concise, consisting almost entirely of short one-syllable words just a few letters long. And I would remove all the complexities of matching verbs and adjectives and nouns. Spanish is particularly bad about this where there are all sorts of permutations for each and even inanimate objects have gender that must be matched.
And what I learned about Esperanto this morning was that Europe was trying to get into a common language, Esperanto, decades ago, and it didn't fly. Why is that?
Kind of like the U.S.A. and the metric system. They tried to convert us back in the late sixties and early seventies and it just sort of went away...now we have a bit of a mixed bag. But not an entire conversion by any means. There must be a reason for that.
Well to persuade people to convert to something new you have to demonstrate that it is significantly better then what they are using. The metric system does have one nice advantage over the english system in it's multiples of ten. I was familiar with this because radio/electronics has always use metrics. We measured frequent in kilohertz, megahertz, and gigahertz, current in miliamps and microamps, wavelength in meters and so forth so I figured making the conversion to total metric would be simple, but I found I didn't like metrics for common measures because the basic units are not conveniently sized for human needs. For example, inches and feet are convenient sizes based on human dimensions- the thumb and foot while the meter seems too long and centimeter too short for many common measurements. Same with liters, grams and degrees. We do not live in a world between freezing and boiling water like the Celsius scale is based on- while the Fahrenheit scale is tailored to fit the normal ranged of temperatures we encounter in weather- rarely going below zero or above 100º.
And now John is going to come on and tell me how I'm wrong about all this.
Do you realize that 90% of humanity feel metric measures are perfectly adapted to human needs?
> For example, inches and feet are convenient sizes based on human dimensions - the thumb and foot
Do yo usually measure things with your thumb? Is your thumb one inch long? DO you measure things with your foot? Is your foot one foot long?
> while the meter seems too long and centimeter too short for many common measurements.
DO you know you can count more than one or two of a unit? I'm 1.78 meter tall, weigh a bit too much at 80 kilos, the size on my hand open is 20 cm, etc....
> Same with liters, grams
I buy organe juice by one or two liters, beer bottles are 250 cl or 500 cl, and gas is sold by the liter. I know the tank is empty if I put 40 liters in it. However, a bottle of wine is 75 cl....
> and degrees. We do not live in a world between freezing and boiling water like the Celsius
> scale is based on- while the Fahrenheit scale is tailored to fit the normal ranged of
> temperatures we encounter in weather- rarely going below zero or above 100º.
The temperature where I live rarely goes below zero. And I knwo I'm comfortable at 20 degrees, and stop to be comfrtable over 25 degrees.
The only reasons I can see to refuse to go for metric system is resistance to change.
I can easily visualize someone being six feet tall- but I have trouble visualizing someone being 1.78 meters.
>The temperature where I live rarely goes below zero. And I knwo I'm comfortable at 20 degrees, and stop to be comfrtable over 25 degrees.
Well if you lived in Canada or most of the US you would be measuring in minus numbers much of the year as its common for the temperature to drop below freezing during winter months. Conversely, you are only using about one third of the celsius scale (typically 0 to 36º) so each degree must represent a bigger increment and a less precise measure.
> I can easily visualize someone being six feet tall- but I have trouble visualizing someone
> being 1.78 meters.
I can easily visualize someone being 1.78 meters tall, but I have trouble visualizing someone being whtaver in feet and inches.....
> Well if you lived in Canada or most of the US you would be measuring in minus numbers much
> of the year as its common for the temperature to drop below freezing during winter months.
> Conversely, you are only using about one third of the celsius scale (typically 0 to 36º)
> so each degree must represent a bigger increment and a less precise measure.
Have you realized you can use decimals too? 20.5 degrees make a lot of sense as being slightly different from 25 degrees!
The only point is habits, conservativeness, reluctance to change, ...
"Do yo usually measure things with your thumb? Is your thumb one inch long? DO you measure things with your foot? Is your foot one foot long? "
Yes actually I do use my thumb and foot for measuring. my thumb is 1 inch wide and my foot is 12 inches long. and so...? In my current profession, carpentry, I use a tape measure as well and I must say that the fractional inch is considerably easeir to read.
I buy my drinks in 12, 16, 24 ounce containers. Half gallon and one gallon for milk. I buy benzine in gallons and when I have 32 gallons in my tank I know it is full...
Now in my other profession nursing, I have to say I would be lost with out the ml,mm,cc, litre, mm/hg, .
I am always interested in why we use both English and Metric measurements simultaneously. My bike has a frame measuring 54 cm, Peter's is 60 cm, while the wheels are commonly referred to in inches, 27. However, my replacement tubes have both measurements on the box, 700 X 20/28C, 27 X 3/4"-1 1/8". The frame is never referred to in inches. It is strange, and confusing to the eyes to read all that on the box. Course I read it often enough that it isn't anymore, but it used to be. Why not settle on one way or the other?
This is because much of what we use now is imported from countries that are metric.
This is how it's being forced on us- not by the government- but by imports.
With the bikes, it is probably because the racing aspect of the sport is international, and many of the bikes are from outside this country. Though mine is made right here in Waterloo, Michigan, many of its componants are foriegn, I think. Probably the only thing American about a Trek is the frame, and the name of the Champion who made them famous.
Now many American manufacturers have also gone metric just the compete on the world market. I think US cars are now metric based. It's going to be rammed down our throats one way or another!
Recently I was maling some adjustments to my Ford truck and I had to go out and buy a metric socket just to take my exhaust system apart...really frustrating.
No actually the frustration is from the fact that in order to complete the task I had to reassemble what I had already done, drive 10+miles into town, just to buy 1 socket for my wrench, then start all over again.
Peter you may as well just buy a complete set of metric tools because you are going to need them!
I have both english and metric versions of about everything.
What pisses me the most is when I have a metric bolt and can only find english-thread nuts.
We've had two of the young ones(7 and 8) for the last two weeks. Other than that the regular drill, sow and harvest. Also changed the irrigation system for the strawberries.
Please resend you email address. Apparently I deleted the wrong address when I cleaned out the old one.
"And now John is going to come on and tell me how I'm wrong about all this."
Not all of it...
"The metric system does have one nice advantage over the english system in it's multiples of ten."
That's not the only advantage. The other big one is that units become interchangable because they're related. A litre of water weighs 1 kg, and fills 1000 cubic centimetres. It takes 1 calorie to heat one ml of water (which also weighs 1 gram).
It's less useful in daily life, but very useful in engineering, which is why even many U.S companies have standardised on metric for engineering.
"I didn't like metrics for common measures because the basic units are not conveniently sized for human needs."
That's more a matter of what you're used to. Besides, some conversions are not too hard for daily use. A litre is close enough to a quart. A kilogram is 2.2 pounds - round it down in most cases (actually there is a metric pound, exactly 0.5 kg). A metre is close to 3 feet, an inch is 2.5 cm, a cup is 1/4 litre (or 250 ml).
"We do not live in a world between freezing and boiling water like the Celsius scale is based on- while the Fahrenheit scale is tailored to fit the normal ranged of temperatures we encounter in weather"
The Farenheit scale was in "degrees" - that is the same as the degrees in a circle. There are 360 degrees in a circle, and 360 degrees between freezing and boiling of fresh (distilled) water.
I've never found why the zero was moved to the freezing point of salt (ocean) water, but the scale never had any relation to what "feels" warm or cold - that was entirely coincidental.
Celcius actually called his scale "centigrade", which means literally "100-based".
Either way, the nicest aspect of the Celcius scale is that 0 is where you know it will take longer to drive to work in the morning (or for pilots, ice may start to form on your wings), so it is more convenient that way. I do remember reading of a scale with based on Farenheit, but with 0 starting at the freezing point, but I don't remember where.
Well in school I learned it as "centigrade" but now a days I hear people calling it "Celsius" so I'm trying to be up to date. Strange for me.
I was unaware of the Fahrenheit 360 business but co-incidental or not, it does work out nicely to fit the normal range of atmosphere temperatures on a scale of 0-100. I like that. I don't like having to worry about rather degrees are plus or minus- just adds unnecessary complication. As for knowing freezing- its easy enough to remember if the temperature is below 32ºF watch out for snow or ice.
We Americans like going our own way on things. We don't like being like everyone else. That is one reason why I don't use metric much.
Also, measurements can be like languages, in that you can use a number of them . . . but when it comes to thinking, what language/measure do you use? I have also used metric in my work (cm for size of wound, cc for amount of liquid medication, etc.) But, I find myself converting these to non-metric, to get a clearer idea what I can looking at (e.g., 2.54 cm = 1 inch). And, with languages, I think the language you THINK IN is your dominant language, no matter how many languages you might know.
Maybe non-verbal communication should be the universal language. Everyone understands a smile and "the finger"!
Well I did have a year of spanish in HS but never became very proficient at it. I can speak a little and read fairly well because I can do that slow- but if I hear spanish people talking they go way too fast. Then I have to say "hable despacio por favor" but that don't work if they are on the radio or aren't really talking to me (like the people at Wal-Mart).
As for metric- I'm pretty well forced to use it- the FCC has been 100% metric for years now- so I'm use to multiplying meters by 3.28 to get feet- but I don't like it. And ofcourse these days you have to have two complete sets of tools and hardware- one english and one metric, so metric is being forced on us rather we like it or not.
Actually, I think some things should be metric that aren't- for example- when I was in high school I had to write a thesis about something- so I wrote about a "metric time system"- I would do away with hours, minutes, seconds and AM and PM- and just have "milidays" and "microdays". So 12:00 noon would be "500 md" and 6:00 PM would be "750 md". Get it? It's a idea whose time has not yet come.
Nat, you're not the only one to have thought about making time metric. Swatch did it too, and went a bit further than you by proposisng a single time reference for the planet.
Well that was interesting. No I had not heard of Swatch time. It's for sure that no time system can be perfect because physics of the earth and sun is not perfect- Actual "noon"- mid-day is different for every town (going east/west). In fact in the old days- each town had it on time standard- based on the sun' position. People lived in such isolation back then it wasn't much of a problem but when it caused so much confusion when cross-country railroads got started that standardized time zones were developed so at least there was some degree of uniformity.
Likewise, the calendar could be improved. Instead of months that vary from 28 to 31 days- we could have 13 28-day months so each month would have exactly 4 weeks and the weekday would be the same year to year. Leap-day would be added at the end of each fourth year and would be a holiday. Nothing would be allowed to happen that day.
Well having a metric calndar has not only been already proposed, but also implemented... during the first years of the French Revolution.... It started during the period called "The Terror", jsut to give you an idea of how nice this was.
Yeah but 12 times 30 is only 360. What happen about the other 5 days? (Actually 5.24 days). That calendar would get badly out of step with the seasons after a time.
This is the problem, the earth's rotation, the moon's revolution and our orbit around the sun just don't come out to be nice round numbers and numeric relationships.
Well I don't know how people are going to like a ten-day week. Thats going to take quite an adjustment.
And I don't see how your 12 x 30 + 5 calendar is better than my 13 x 28 + 1 calendar which maintains the familiar 7-day week and has only one extra day at the end.
Well now, the Europeons would have a problem understanding the 1 finger salute. They utilize two fingers flipped up resembling a reversed "peace sign"....
> Well now, the Europeons would have a problem understanding the 1 finger salute. They
> utilize two fingers flipped up resembling a reversed "peace sign"....
The British use two fingers. Most continental Europeans use only one....
Marseil is just being argumentitive. If you recall, all through the Balkans in the late nineties they used the two finger salute. In Holland in the early eighties they used it.
"Marseil is just being argumentitive. If you recall, all through the Balkans in the late nineties they used the two finger salute. In Holland in the early eighties they used it."
Remember he did say most continentals, not all. The point is that none of these signs (finger, two fingers, finger and thumb together, flat hand, etc) is universal, though they mean the same thing in different cultures.
Are you saying that the European nations reasons for not adopting "Esperanto" is, "Conservatism, fear of change, nationalism, lazyness, lack of mind-openness, lack of curiosity, reluctance to intellectual effort, ..."
I mean reasons for everyone not to adopt espaeranto are "Conservatism, fear of change, nationalism, lazyness, lack of mind-openness, lack of curiosity, reluctance to intellectual effort, ..." Of course, this includes European nations.
I am seeing a pattern here, and it has me wondering what you have against tradition. We have enough to do without having to change our language, our time, our way of measuring, and our tool sets. Why does everything have to change with every season. The seasons are enough! I think we have lost so much already, you have no idea, with people always coming in and foisting their own agenda, killing for it even, and tossing out any and everything that is held sacred, or traditional. Read about all the old ways with a nice cup of tea, and chill!
Yes, I do notice. And if we resist change, or aren't interested, we are labeled 'conservative' or any number of other things they think are an insult. It would be good if people would stop looking outword, and just keep their eyes on their own business.
Marseil writes...
<<<I mean reasons for everyone not to adopt espaeranto are "Conservatism, fear of change, nationalism, lazyness, lack of mind-openness, lack of curiosity, reluctance to intellectual effort, ..." >>>
He assumes because these nations don't want to adopt one international language they are all these things above...
What is wrong with Nationalism? It is kinda cool, and I say they should all keep it!
What is wrong with conservatism? What does that have to do with it anyway?
Why does he think it is lazyness? Could be they are busy working for a living and doing just fine with their own language. The only people who ever really need be concerned with multiple languages are those who get to travel, "for business and pleasure" and those of us staying home working for a living are fine.
Why does he assume that there is closed mindedness afoot? You know when ever I hear someone say that someone else is closed minded, or in this case, has a lack of open mindedness, I always figure they are saying that if their own agenda isn't accepted and therefore accusations of closed mindedness occurs, then who is it really with the closed mind? Perhaps we can all have our own way. My mind, your mind, and if I don't agree with your mind, so what? I have every right to my own mind as you do? Correct? Who says one mind is wrong while another mind is right? That is so stupid!
How does he know that there is a lack of curiousity? Maybe they are curious about 1,000 other things.
And this poop about reluctance to intellectual effort...same thing here...who know what everyone is spending their time being intellectual about. If I have a means to communicate, and it works for the majority of the people in my country, then I am totally free to visit quantum physics with my intellect and fry my brain there all I want!
> What is wrong with Nationalism? It is kinda cool, and I say they should all keep it!
Nationalism invariably leads to wars. Hasn't there been enough people killed by nationalism so far in humanity history?
> What is wrong with conservatism? What does that have to do with it anyway?
Conservatism is opposed to progress. Do you feel living conditions in Antiquiy or in the Middle Ages were better than now?
> Why does he think it is lazyness? Could be they are busy working for a living and doing just fine
> with their own language. The only people who ever really need be concerned with multiple languages
> are those who get to travel, "for business and pleasure" and those of us staying home working for
> a living are fine.
Multiple languages is a means to understand other peoples on earth. When you start to understand other people and fight misconceptions, then there is less chances of war. The planet is small and our lives are interrelated. Things will be better if we understand each other better. Languages are a menas to reach this. A unversal language would be even more efficient.
> Why does he assume that there is closed mindedness afoot? You know when ever I hear someone say
> that someone else is closed minded, or in this case, has a lack of open mindedness, I always
> figure they are saying that if their own agenda isn't accepted and therefore accusations of closed
> mindedness occurs, then who is it really with the closed mind? Perhaps we can all have our own
> way. My mind, your mind, and if I don't agree with your mind, so what? I have every right to my
> own mind as you do? Correct? Who says one mind is wrong while another mind is right? That is so
> stupid!
I don't ask your mind to agree with mine. But I still think a way to progress for humanity is more understanding and curiosity. I speak English, and have been to the US many times. I feel I understand a few things about the Us and the Americans. I don't know how many European (or Asian or African...) languages you speak and in how many European (or Asian or African...) countries you've been. The more you travel the more you realize there is not just one right way, but many ways of thinking and doing things and that each of them make sense. And is not better than another. They are just different.
> How does he know that there is a lack of curiousity? Maybe they are curious about 1,000 other
> things.
Languages are a means to communicate with people. This is about curiosity in people. You may prefer things to people, but, in my opinion, you'll miss a lot.
> And this poop about reluctance to intellectual effort...same thing here...who know what everyone
> is spending their time being intellectual about. If I have a means to communicate, and it works
> for the majority of the people in my country, then I am totally free to visit quantum physics with
> my intellect and fry my brain there all I want!
Learning languages need an effort. Wilingness to do such effort shows an interst in people.
Not wanting to to get too long with all the quotes and insets, I will simply try to reply without your text. If any confusion occurs one can just go back and reread...I think...
Nationalism...My kids have black awareness month, hispanic month, and I don't know how many other ethnic pride facilitators in their school. But they don't get any Irish awareness month. Why is that? There is such an imbalance as to who gets to be National, Prideful about their heritage. To push for a 'One World' system will never be equality for all people. Just diluting away the fair ones, and their Gaelic languages, and all other language to facilitate union, for the sake of peace? No, it is just a bigger people for some future government to have control over.
Conservatism...I absolutlely do not feel that living in times past was better than now, especially for women. Tampons are great!
But I do not equate conservatism with a hault in progress. I don't see it that way.
<<<Multiple languages is a means to understand other peoples on earth. When you start to understand other people and fight misconceptions, then there is less chances of war. The planet is small and our lives are interrelated. Things will be better if we understand each other better. Languages are a menas to reach this. A unversal language would be even more efficient.>>>
This one I did cut and paste because you argued against yourself. We already do speak multiple languages. A single language will never be more efficient. Why? Because no one is listening to anyone but themselves! And there have always been wars, and there always will be wars. It matters not that anyone can understand each other. It isn't misunderstandings that cause war. It is secret agendas, and lies that cause wars. In any language!
Closed mindedness...You agreed with me! That was exactly what I said! There is no reason to ever tell anyone they have a closed mind. The way of thinking and doing in any country, county, or city, all across the planet is entirely right for the people who inhabit them. We all have plenty of opportunities to be curious and get to know each other whether or not I get to travel. You shut me down when I attempt to speak with you via this box by making judgements. You tell me that I am wrong about a thing...what does that do? It either ends the conversations, because I might believe you, or figure there is no point in continuing with you...or I stay and have to fight. In your language or mine, you make a judgment to convince me of a thing. You have an agenda. It isn't communication. So what difference does it make what language we use? Argumentative!
Curiosity....I maybe do prefer things to people, and save myself a lot of stress for the preference. But, again, you judge based on the fact that I used the word things and left out the word people. Things, people, stuff, places...whatever. You should ask Nat just how curious I am, just how many questions I have asked this board since I got here in '03...I wonder if he kept track of them all. But many folks here don't like my curiosity, my questions. Do you suppose they would like them better if posed in French?
Intellectual effort and language...Now you are just preaching to the chior. I have an interest in the language of my ancestors, and it isn't Esperansa, or Africanz or French. But it isn't English either. I speak English by default. My ancestors aren't happy with the English, nor have they ever been.
I keep your points to allow a better understanding.
> Nationalism...My kids have black awareness month, hispanic month, and I don't know how many other
> ethnic pride facilitators in their school. But they don't get any Irish awareness month. Why is
> that? There is such an imbalance as to who gets to be National, Prideful about their heritage. To
> push for a 'One World' system will never be equality for all people. Just diluting away the fair
> ones, and their Gaelic languages, and all other language to facilitate union, for the sake of
> peace? No, it is just a bigger people for some future government to have control over.
No opinion about the various ethnic days or months in the US.
Languages are in a danger of disappearance when they are spoken by too few people. Chinese, English, Hindi and Spanish are not facing such danger.
> <<<Multiple languages is a means to understand other peoples on earth. When you start to
> understand other people and fight misconceptions, then there is less chances of war. The planet is
> small and our lives are interrelated. Things will be better if we understand each other better.
> Languages are a menas to reach this. A unversal language would be even more efficient.>>>
> This one I did cut and paste because you argued against yourself. We already do speak multiple
> languages. A single language will never be more efficient. Why? Because no one is listening to
> anyone but themselves! And there have always been wars, and there always will be wars. It matters > not that anyone can understand each other. It isn't misunderstandings that cause war. It is secret
> agendas, and lies that cause wars. In any language!
The idea behind esperanto is to have a communication language that is not owned by anyone. This way, everyone speaks his own language (encouraging the conservation of endangered languages), and esperanto as a means of communication with other people .
The difference with the current situation is that the international communication language is ENglish, owned by the Americans, the British, and a few others. Which creates an imbalance in exchanges. For most posters on this forum, English is your mother tongue, thus you can express yourself a lot more easily than me....
> Closed mindedness...You agreed with me! That was exactly what I said! There is no reason to ever
> tell anyone they have a closed mind. The way of thinking and doing in any country, county, or
> city, all across the planet is entirely right for the people who inhabit them. We all have plenty
> of opportunities to be curious and get to know each other whether or not I get to travel. You shut
> me down when I attempt to speak with you via this box by making judgements. You tell me that I am
> wrong about a thing...what does that do? It either ends the conversations, because I might believe
> you, or figure there is no point in continuing with you...or I stay and have to fight. In your
> language or mine, you make a judgment to convince me of a thing. You have an agenda. It isn't
> communication. So what difference does it make what language we use? Argumentative!
I'm not being judgemental here. I never expressed a value judgement about other posters. I express my opinions and expect to share them, or at least to debate about them, in a constructive manner. Having a constructive debate means bringing arguments, facts and reasoning in order to explain and justify an opinion. What agenda do I have?
And, yes language makes a difference. A better command of language makes expressing opinions more easy.
> Curiosity....I maybe do prefer things to people, and save myself a lot of stress for the
> preference. But, again, you judge based on the fact that I used the word things and left out the
> word people. Things, people, stuff, places...whatever. You should ask Nat just how curious I am,
> just how many questions I have asked this board since I got here in '03...I wonder if he kept
> track of them all. But many folks here don't like my curiosity, my questions. Do you suppose they
> would like them better if posed in French?
You may have noticed I wrote "You may prefer things to people, but, in my opinion, you'll miss a lot.". The important words are "in my opinion". Again, I'm not judgemental, jsut expressing opinions.
I don't think there is ever a bad questions. All questions are worth asking. Curiosity is a very important quality to me.
> Intellectual effort and language...Now you are just preaching to the chior. I have an interest in
> the language of my ancestors, and it isn't Esperansa, or Africanz or French. But it isn't English
> either. I speak English by default. My ancestors aren't happy with the English, nor have they ever
> been.
As unfortunately esperanto is not widely spread, we have no other options but to learn many languages, and try to understand many civilizations in order to satisfy some curiosity and understand better how this world is running....
Jut a matter of curiosity, what language did your ancestors speak?
This IS getting long and confusing...Maybe it should be color codes for the He said, and she said, parts?
Marseil...."No opinion about the various ethnic days or months in the US.
Languages are in a danger of disappearance when they are spoken by too few people. Chinese, English, Hindi and Spanish are not facing such danger."
Me...This is why I don't see an advantage to introducing a new "generic" language. Those languages that are already in danger of being forgotten will have an even harder chance of surviving.
Marseil...."The idea behind esperanto is to have a communication language that is not owned by anyone. This way, everyone speaks his own language (encouraging the conservation of endangered languages), and esperanto as a means of communication with other people .
The difference with the current situation is that the international communication language is ENglish, owned by the Americans, the British, and a few others. Which creates an imbalance in exchanges. For most posters on this forum, English is your mother tongue, thus you can express yourself a lot more easily than me.... "
Me...So you, or some, are worried that having the common language be one that some people have as a mother tongue, English, puts many at a disadvantage. You, or some, would have us ALL be at a diadvantage, to level the playing field, so to speak? Have us all stuck with a new language that no one understands so that we can better communicate with each other. And I bet not a single war will come out of that scenario! (yes, I am being somewhat sarcastic...but I am smiling...since you cannot see my face, smiling)
Marseil..."I'm not being judgemental here. I never expressed a value judgement about other posters. I express my opinions and expect to share them, or at least to debate about them, in a constructive manner. Having a constructive debate means bringing arguments, facts and reasoning in order to explain and justify an opinion. What agenda do I have?
And, yes language makes a difference. A better command of language makes expressing opinions more ease"
Me...I slip into first person a lot when I am trying to illustrate a point. Now you know something more about my way of communicating, so that we will understand each other better.
Marseil..."I don't think there is ever a bad questions. All questions are worth asking. Curiosity is a very important quality to me. "
Me...I agree with this statement 100%!
Marseil..."As unfortunately esperanto is not widely spread, we have no other options but to learn many languages, and try to understand many civilizations in order to satisfy some curiosity and understand better how this world is running....
Jut a matter of curiosity, what language did your ancestors speak? "
Me...My people spoke/speak Cymru (Welsh), and my children are Irish from their dad's side, so I would love to be able to teach them all the Irish Gaelic too.
Marseil...."No opinion about the various ethnic days or months in the US.
Languages are in a danger of disappearance when they are spoken by too few people. Chinese, English, Hindi and Spanish are not facing such danger."
Shadow...This is why I don't see an advantage to introducing a new "generic" language. Those languages that are already in danger of being forgotten will have an even harder chance of surviving.
Marseil ... It is demonstrated the the more languages one person speaks, the more this person is able to learn. Havng to be able to speak one's own language plus an international language would be good way to make everyone intrested in languages and willing to learn a lot more.
Shadow...So you, or some, are worried that having the common language be one that some people have as a mother tongue, English, puts many at a disadvantage. You, or some, would have us ALL be at a diadvantage, to level the playing field, so to speak? Have us all stuck with a new language that no one understands so that we can better communicate with each other. And I bet not a single war will come out of that scenario! (yes, I am being somewhat sarcastic...but I am smiling...since you cannot see my face, smiling)
Marseil... Of course, I'm worried, because with a language hegemony comes the cultural imperialism. In the wake of English language comes Hollywood films, American literature, ... pushing Amercians conceptions of society, and then American industry: Coca-Cola is never far away!
Shadow...My people spoke/speak Cymru (Welsh), and my children are Irish from their dad's side, so I would love to be able to teach them all the Irish Gaelic too.
Marseil... And can you understand Welsh and Irish Gaelic, or has this been lost along the way?
Marseil ... It is demonstrated the the more languages one person speaks, the more this person is able to learn. Havng to be able to speak one's own language plus an international language would be good way to make everyone intrested in languages and willing to learn a lot more.
Shadow...This is where we run into difficulty. How many people are actually interested in learning anything more then they have to to secure their good degree and job?
Marseil... Of course, I'm worried, because with a language hegemony comes the cultural imperialism. In the wake of English language comes Hollywood films, American literature, ... pushing Amercians conceptions of society, and then American industry: Coca-Cola is never far away!
Shadow....If there were not an international market for all of what "Hollywood" produces, then you wouldn't see it as such an influence. We Americans are not the only ones who want this. American culture sells everywhere. That doesn't mean it is all right and good, or that all Americans think it is. It just means that there are enough buyers all over the world who want it, so it is there.
Marseil... And can you understand Welsh and Irish Gaelic, or has this been lost along the way?
Shadow....No! I cannot. It has been lost along the way, and it is up to me to replace it in my family and preserve it as our culture. I am collecting the means to reintroduce these languages as we speak. It isn't an easy task here in Texas, but where there's a will there's a way, no?
Marseil ... It is demonstrated the the more languages one person speaks, the more this person is able to learn. Havng to be able to speak one's own language plus an international language would be good way to make everyone intrested in languages and willing to learn a lot more.
Shadow...This is where we run into difficulty. How many people are actually interested in learning anything more then they have to to secure their good degree and job?
Marseil... What a materialistic answer! What do you do with curiosity, culture, interest in other people and civilizations, will to travel, will to discover people, opportunities to learn from people with different cuiltures,...
Marseil... Of course, I'm worried, because with a language hegemony comes the cultural imperialism. In the wake of English language comes Hollywood films, American literature, ... pushing Amercians conceptions of society, and then American industry: Coca-Cola is never far away!
Shadow....If there were not an international market for all of what "Hollywood" produces, then you wouldn't see it as such an influence. We Americans are not the only ones who want this. American culture sells everywhere. That doesn't mean it is all right and good, or that all Americans think it is. It just means that there are enough buyers all over the world who want it, so it is there.
Marseil... What is the cause and what is the effect between language dissemination, cultural imperialism, and economic supremacy?
Marseil... And can you understand Welsh and Irish Gaelic, or has this been lost along the way?
Shadow....No! I cannot. It has been lost along the way, and it is up to me to replace it in my family and preserve it as our culture. I am collecting the means to reintroduce these languages as we speak. It isn't an easy task here in Texas, but where there's a will there's a way, no?
Marseil... Good luck! It sounds like a nice and ambitous objective.
Shadow...This is where we run into difficulty. How many people are actually interested in learning anything more then they have to to secure their good degree and job?
Marseil... What a materialistic answer! What do you do with curiosity, culture, interest in other people and civilizations, will to travel, will to discover people, opportunities to learn from people with different cuiltures,...
Shadow...Actually, it wasn't a materialistic answer. It was a question. I was being serious, as I see the situation. Whether it is a lack of ambition or a lack of funds for schooling, or a lack of interest...I do not know for sure.
Shadow....If there were not an international market for all of what "Hollywood" produces, then you wouldn't see it as such an influence. We Americans are not the only ones who want this. American culture sells everywhere. That doesn't mean it is all right and good, or that all Americans think it is. It just means that there are enough buyers all over the world who want it, so it is there.
Marseil... What is the cause and what is the effect between language dissemination, cultural imperialism, and economic supremacy?
Shadow...I don't know...partly because I just got back from my bike ride, where I encountered something in the air that made my nose alergic, gak! and I'm struggling to recover...sigh...and partly because I just plain don't know.
Please tell me what you think the answer to your question is.
Marseil... And can you understand Welsh and Irish Gaelic, or has this been lost along the way?
Shadow....No! I cannot. It has been lost along the way, and it is up to me to replace it in my family and preserve it as our culture. I am collecting the means to reintroduce these languages as we speak. It isn't an easy task here in Texas, but where there's a will there's a way, no?
Marseil... Good luck! It sounds like a nice and ambitous objective.
Shadow...Thank you! I fear it might be too ambitious, but what the heck, I'm happy for a challenge.
Marseil's question . . . . could it be of the "chicken or egg" variety? Did the U.S. success in exporting its culture and increasing foreign sales (in the past . . not now) RESULT from the prominence of English spoken worldwide? Or, did the proliferation of English around the world result from success the U.S. has had in promoting its culture and products worldwide? Or, maybe its a combination: Having English spoken around the world and having American symbols and products sold worldwide reinforce and aid each other.
We currently see China making leaps and bounds economically, yet most other countries are not Chinese-speaking. Perhaps Chinese will become more common as China assumes world leadership. In that case, I think the spread of the language would defiontely follow from the business success.
My ethnic background is German-English-Irish. I took a couple of years of HS Spanish, but I don't really speak any language other than English. And, that works for me. It would be cool to know another language, but speaking English-only has not hampered my life or things I wanted to do. I think this is what SHADOW was saying.
I think it would be nice for my children and grandchildren to learn other languages. Actually, my younger son is very interested in languages and has a bit of proficiency in 2 or 3 (I ask him to leave me a note if he won't be home as usual -- he leaves me notes . . . in French! arrggh!) I think it is very cool that he can speak and understand in those languages (I just wish he wasn't most intent upon first learning the insults, curses and sexual comments!)
Marseil:
I don't think nationalism has to lead to war. All it means is pride in one's country and history. Why would that "inevitably" lead to war? I think there are many times that nations feel pride in their cultures and accomplishments, yet do not attack others.
As for "conservatism", the root word is "conserve", which is not just "resistance to change", but also means saving that which is valuable, preserving the good aspects of the past to be enjoyed in the future. I think it is faulty to equate "change" with "progress" . . as many times changes have been for the worse, not better. Some changes are improvements, but other changes are regression.
There is an old saying: "if it aint broke, don't fix it", which means that if something works, there is no need to change it. People often find comfort in the familiar, and if that familiar thing serves the purpose, why change just for the sake of change? I would not begrudge any person or group its desire to change . . . but neither should anyone begrudge another's choice to keep what they like, what works for them. Agreed?
If nationalism does not always lead to war, then you'll have to notice taht in every war there is a part of nationalism. Just look into recent history: wwi and wwii. Nationalism was always among the major causes for the wars.
Change is the progress of humanity. It is what differentiates humans from animals. Humans are able to use tools, to make long term plans and to change their environment, like with farming, raising cattle, building craftmanship, industry, etc.... We would not have changed, we would still be living in caves, and no one would have invented thee wheeel yet.
na•tion•al•ism \"na-she-ne-'li-zem\ n : devotion to national interests, unity, and independence.
According to Webster, it sounds pretty cool to me! I bet it always has had something to do with promoting all the technological changes you speak about. But in a positive way, not a negative.
I am very curious...What might your line of work be? Or perhaps I should say, what is your agenda?
The beginning is:
"Nationalism is an ideology that holds that (ethnically or culturally defined) nations are the "fundamental units" for human social life, and makes certain cultural and political claims based upon that belief; in particular, the claim that the nation is "the only legitimate basis for the state", and that "each nation is entitled to its own state." Nationalism also refers to the specific ideologies of various nationalist movements, which make cultural and political claims on behalf of specific nations."
Further down, you may read:
"Historical events (not just wars) in which nationalism played an essential role included:
The American war of Independence 1775-1783
The Arab-Israeli conflict, beginning in the early 20th century and ongoing
The Anglo-Irish War, leading to the renewed indepedence of Ireland as the Republic of Ireland, also the partition of Ireland into the sovereign Republic of Ireland and the British statelet of Northern Ireland.
The 1911 Revolution in China.
The Balkan Wars in 1912-1913.
The Arab Revolt of 1916-1918.
The Turkish War of Independence from 1919 to 1923
The establishment of the apartheid state in South Africa by the National Party of South Africa, the Afrikaner nationalists.
The conflict between Canadian and Quebecois nationalism in Canada, and the violence of the FLQ.
The Fiji coups of 1987 and 2000.
Etc...."
As I see it nationalism is patriotism carried to extreme. Nationalism is more fanatical- thinking that your country is automatically right in every case.
I'm a patriotic American, but I certainly don't think my country is always right. In fact, in foreign policy, I think it is often wrong.
The danger of nationalism is when you never question what your country does. If more Germans had questioned Hitler there may have never been World War II.
Possibly, but what exactly would these people ask? What would have been their clue in the beginning that Hitler had any agenda other than to unify the German people, and to improvr the economy? Who would have thought to question a man who was making it possible for there to be food on the table and clothes on their backs in the time of economic depression.
I think the German people were dupped by nationalism as a tool of manipulation but one must look at the whole picture to see it in perspective.
Well I guess I would have questioned why so much resources was going into the military- the hugh army- the parades of military equiptment. And Germans must have had jewish friends and neighbors who were mysteriously disappearing. The impression I get was that Germans just went along with whatever their government (Hitler) did. By contrast, here I think it was the public protests in the 1960s that led to the scaling down and end to the Viet Nam war. And the same thing may happen with Iraq.
The American Govt. had rounded up Japanese and German neighbors and shipped them off to camps as well. Luckily there weren't ovens waiting for them but no one really knew and we trusted what the govt. said. Did Joe American run out to stop the internment, question ...no.
I think in the past people believed that their elected officials were acting in their best interest.
. . it can be a problem. Assuming its true that "nationalism" was involved in every major war . . . that is not the same as saying that "nationalism" invariably or usually leads to wars. That's a generalization over-applied.
As someone once observed, the fact that most people who shot heroin had earlier drank alcohol or smoked marijuana does not prove that the latter are "gateway" drugs. Many people who drank or smoked did not progress to heroin . . and even more folks probably drank milk before they shot up . . but that doesn't make milk a "gateway".
Likewise . . . there is a difference between "progress" and "change". Some changes are progress . . . and some changes are regression. In some cases, it is better NOT to change. True, had man not "changed", we could still be living in caves. Yet, if man had not "changed", we might not (some of us) be living in inner city squalor, with divided families, eating bio-engineered foods, and our bodies laced through with environmental polluttants. Clearly, some changes are not progress. Avoiding those changes -- conserving parts of the past -- would be better.
If there was not some people pushing for change from time to time, we would still be living in caves, and have not invented the wheel..... And we would not have the chance to exchange on a forum over the internet.
You posted about your love of the challenge . . . the thing that used to matter in sports like Major League Baseball, National Football League, National Basketball Association, among other big-time sports. The money has reduced these sports to mere facades of what I/you knew as youth.
The "solution" for many has been to start following the "lesser" sports: The high school and small college teams, soccer, the minor and semi-pro leagues . . the Class A or AA teams . . . . the ones the crowds ignore . . . the ones that dare not make demands, as not many people are patronizing them as it is.
Better yet . . as you have done . . . we can start PARTICIPATING in sports ourselves, instead of watching . . . with health benefits to boot.
P.S. I still follow my favorite teams . . . . especially Ohio State football. I just don't spend money to attend games (if you could even get a ticket for OSU!) or to purchase team merchandize. So say I don't REALLY support the teams I cheer for . . . DAMN STRAIGHT!!
P.S.S. Two female co-workers joined/made the new local roller derby team . . . haha . . . I will be watching them starting in August. Go Mandi Mayhem!!!
You are right on. I didn't go into all that you wrote when I posted, though as I gave you my inside thinking these were the thoughts that I was remembering. When we were in San Antonio we were given tickets to the minor league baseball team that played there (I can't think of their name to save my soul!) so we went to several games. We ate before we went and we never bought any caps or jerseys. It was too expensive. And that was minor league!
I do think that there are great benefits to going to high school football games (Texas Religion!) and other sports in your home towns. And finding other more obscure sports, like your aforementioned roller derby, to follow is loads of fun and just as entertaining. Especially if you have someone you know to watch within the sport.
But like my cycling, it becomes a team sport, on Saturday mornings especially, just by the amount of cyclists who show up to ride our favorite route out here. And don't you know there is compitition! Unspoken though it may be, it is there, indeed! The best part is the fun! You get to participate in sport, and you get a skinny butt all at the same time!
As for the money machine that is pro/major sports...it would have to think twice if we all found something else to go see or do with our time and money. When you can't take your kids to the ball park and buy a hot dog and an ice cream on your decent salary, something is terribly wrong with Americas favorite pass time!
One of my superheros for the past seven years, Lance Armstrong, has had the opposite trouble that baseball has now. He is rousted from sleep on a Saturday morning at seven to give a sample for drug testing, passes all tests, and is still accused of doping. When asked what are you on? His answer was "What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my ass six hours a day. What are you on? And even after he retired they tried to bust him and discredit him for past tests that he did pass so they could take away one or more of his championships. It is petty jealousy. It is damned stupid. Why would someone who has lived through so much, come back to life, literally, put that shit in his body?
Is Bonds doping? If so, why do his records mean anything?
