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Arizona's New Illegal Immigration Law

May 2 2010 at 4:06 PM
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Bob  (no login)
from IP address 99.67.184.6

 
Undoubtedly, all non-comatose Americans know that the State of Arizona recently passed a law making it (in the words of NPR radio) "illegal to be in the country illegally". There has been an uproar of protests against the law (though polls show that a majority of Americans support it), and threatened boycotts unless the Arizona legislature does an abrupt about-turn and repeals the law before it can take effect. Yesterday, I received an invitation from a friend in Belgium to join a group of internet users that oppose the law -- so it looks like this is known in Europe and perhaps other parts of the world. Anyone who knows me is aware of my feelings on the subject. Does anyone care to share theirs?

 
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Nat
(Login Nafana)
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98.208.226.3

My position

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May 2 2010, 11:52 PM 

This is a difficult question because I can see both sides of it. As much as I hate to see the Mexiconization (or here- the Cubanization) of America- I have to admit most of these people are hard workers who just want to provide a better life for their families. And- I understand what a pain current immigration laws are. So this is my position- they can come ~if~ they are self-sufficient and behave- AND- adopt our Americans ways (ie- learn and speak English) instead of expecting us to cater to them by speaking and printing things in Spanish. I know if I decided to move to a foreign country I would consider it my obligation to adopt their language and culture- and if I'm not willing to do that I have no business going there.

 
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BlueTrain
(Login BlueTrain)
98.141.224.66

Re: Arizona's New Illegal Immigration Law

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May 3 2010, 7:04 AM 

At one time Germans had to prove their Aryan ancestry back to sometime before 1800. I'm pretty sure of my ancestry but I'm not sure I can prove it. In any case, I'm certainly not an American Indian.

That's what bothers me the most about all of this. What is to keep people in Arizona from asking people that they are Arizona citizens and not just American citizens? I don't believe some of the things said about illegal immigrants, which is to say, some people have a credibility problem. I realize they are speaking to the mob (in a manner of speaking), but one exaggeration, one little white lie, tends to destroy whatever credibility they might have about anything else.

 
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Nat
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Owner
98.208.226.3

Back to the Indians?

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May 3 2010, 4:23 PM 

The irony is that Hispanics have a better historical claim to the southern US than we English speaking people. Almost all the initial exploring and settling of the south was done by Spaniards. We see this every day by the many southern cities and places that have Spanish names like those beginning with "Los" or "Las" or "San". So some Hispanics think they are just taking back what was theirs in the first place!

Of course, if we go by that rule- then we would have to give the country back to the native Indians!

 
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Bob
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99.67.184.6

9/10

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May 5 2010, 9:52 PM 

I go by the rule that says "Possession is 9/10 of the law". This country is ours until someone takes it from us . . or we let someone take it. Certainly, Mexico could not take for its own any part of U.S.A. if we don't give it up. Not only would they stand no chance militarily, but they really have no effective economic means to retaliate -- they get a hell of lot more $$$ from U.S. that then reverse.

My concern is that we (our Federal Govt) will gradually relinquish parts of the southwestern U.S. to Mexico. It could technically remain part of U.S. but be under their control. I think we are at a crossroads of either fighting to maintain border integrity and expel those here illegally or we will let the numbers of Hispanics grow to such a point that parts of U.S. are really "theirs" rather than "ours". If Americans were united, there is no way the latter would occur. Sadly, there are just enough mouthpieces and lawyers to keep the will of the majority at bay while Hispanics take over.

 
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Nat
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98.208.226.3

Re: 9/10

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May 5 2010, 10:43 PM 

Yes I agree- it's not like they don't have their own country. They have had as much opportunity to make Mexico a successful modern country as the US had- and if they didn't- who's fault is that?

And I think we are giving a lot more than we are getting from trade agreements like NAFTA. And like it or not- Hispanics are becoming a powerful factor in our government- they already control whole towns in the south and are becoming a ever larger force in our national politics.

Something else I've notice lately is how many US websites like Youtube and Flicker are being inundated with Spanish language posts even though the majority of the website users can't read them. This seems to be another selfish effort on their part to force their way into American Culture rather than adapting to it by posting in English.

 
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Marseil
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86.75.198.230

Languages

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May 7 2010, 6:25 PM 

How fun!!!! You never ever thought about the imperialism of English language and American culture (supported by the business community and decades of government policies) on the whole world, and the total disappearing of more languages in the xxth century than ever before.

You start to be concerned with languages (and the cultural values associated with them), when you see your own language slightly threatened.

Marseil.

 
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Nat
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Owner
98.208.226.3

Re: Languages

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May 7 2010, 11:08 PM 

This is not America forcing English on other countries- I'm talking about American websites in America that were made for English speaking Americans to use!

If other people wish to use them- fine- but they should have the courtesy to not disrupt their purpose- which is to serve English speaking Americans.

 
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Marseil
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86.75.198.230

9/10????

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May 7 2010, 6:22 PM 

Bob wrote: I go by the rule that says "Possession is 9/10 of the law".

Come on, Bob! This rule doesn't stand for a minute! With such a rule you're legitimizing US possession of Iraq, Chinese colonization of Tibet, Xinjiang and Mongolia, Russian occupation of the Caucasus regions, etc....

If you back a couple centuries in time, this is a legitimization of all colonizations!

Marseil.

 
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Bob
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99.67.184.6

My Point

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May 9 2010, 12:25 AM 

My point was that Mexico cannot take the southwestern United States unless we give it up. If Americans stand firm in defense of our territory, then there really is no legitimate threat. But, part of standing up is securing our borders and expelling illegals.

There is no way that Americans want or need any the lands our military personnel are in now. If we can both conserve energy and develop our alternatives to oil, then we will be content to have our own country and let others have theirs.

 
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BlueTrain
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98.141.224.66

Re: 9/10

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May 12 2010, 4:29 PM 

Who gets to say if you're an American? Do you have to be native born? Can you only live in the state you were born in? Where does an immigrant from Canada fit in?

 
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Nat
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Owner
98.208.226.3

Re: 9/10

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May 12 2010, 10:56 PM 

I think what Bob is concerned about- at least what I'm concerned about- is not immigration in general- but the fact that Hispanics seem intend on imposing their culture on us. This is not a problem with Canadians (many who visit and even live here in during the winter) because they speak our language and have similar customs and fit right in. But Hispanics establish their own Spanish speaking communities and stores, demand government documents be printed in Spanish and make Americans feel like we are foreigners in our own country.

 
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Bob
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99.67.184.6

Legal Status

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May 13 2010, 10:55 PM 

All most Americans expect is that existing laws be enforced. So, to answer your question, "Who is American?", or more to the point, "Who should be allowed in America?", the popular answer would be, "Those who entered the U.S. legally, and maintain legal status while in the country, whether they become citizens, or resident aliens, here on visas, etc. . . . those people are welcome in the United States." Conversely, those who enter the country illegally, and/or remain in the country after their legal status expires . . . those people are the ones that most Americans object to. Personally, I don't care if people live in an adjoining country and LEGALLY commute into U.S. each day to work a bonafide job here and then return home -- they are obeying ours laws and I have no problem with their doing that.

The concern is not, as the opposition wants to claim, that the newcomers are non-white. It is that they violate the laws of the U.S. by coming here illegally and circumvent the established process for legal immigration.

True, another concern is that America stay America. We have a dominant language that almost all Americans speak, which helps to unify us as a nation. I don't care if legal residents speak another language as well, but I don't think it is reasonable for people to move here and then expect their host nation to change to accommodate them. Likewise, we have our traditions and holidays, or American version of history and heroes (we are not alone in that, as all nations/peoples interpret events in a way that honors themselves), and we should not have our American ways supplanted in order to satisfy newcomers. As often happens, the dominant culture often adopts some of the ways of other groups (e.g., the cities and states in U.S. that adopted Indian names -- as in my native Ohio; words borrowed from languages other than English and are in common usage by English-speaking Americans).

So, in a way, we do honor other cultures. But to be REQUIRED to do so in order to make the newcomers more comfortable . . . I don't see that as necessary or as a reasonable expectation. If, for example, I relocated to Italy, I would not expect or demand that Italians change to satisfy me or make their country feel more like my home in U.S. No, if I go there, I expect to deal with their culture as-is and to put forth the effort myself to acclimate to the host culture. True, it would be great to have Italians speak English to me (since I don't speak Italian), but I wouldn't get hostile and demand that everyone and everything communicate to me in English.

Did this answer your question?

 
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