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FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007 at 10:37 AM

Just wondered, why the forum on SAP was removed.


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 11:22 AM 

Because of the (New)Guinea pig issue........

Ki-boda Nem

Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 11:35 AM 

Just wondered if any my postings was the reasons why SAP forum was removed??? thats all. and wondered why also????


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 1:35 PM 

The issue was to generate intelligent public (especially people who access this site) discussion on how the political party policies of the 34+ political parties in PNG could go towards addressing the developmental needs of PNG. It was to compare the publicly accessible policies by SAP to that of other long time established political parties in PNG.

I guess the reason why it was taken off is because people deviated from the issue. Ki-Boda Nem rightly says some of his comments may have contributed to the forum taken off.

The sarcastic comments from bush scientist and the political chemist may also contributed to that.

Bikpela sore long pea sized brain bilong yupela.

Ki-boda Nem

Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 1:48 PM 

Wabson, Here is K-boda Nem. SAP policies were unique, Could you elaborate for the Public in this Forum to know what is new under the sun? I think its a re-invention of the old Policies, just changed from caterpillar to Butterfly.
Its one thing to color the pages of the webs and books about a Policy but its a another thing to run an election, win an election. AGain, one could be a Champion in his field of Bio Technology, but that does not mean that he will run the Country as a Prime Minister....Any new Policies which "ol Kundiawa Gembogle mas save long em"


Biotechnology centres and other dreamtime concoctions

May 4 2007, 3:08 PM 

Everything I can see is that the party and its peoples are far too elitist for PNG the way the country is right now. Do you people have any idea what the average literacy rate and command of English is? If any of these SAP members have the common touch with the people, why isn't this reflected on the web site?

It's not the English that shows the greatest distance to the people on the ground, it's the entire approach and policy. Does Dr Waine and his supporters have any concept of the way the average Papua New Guinean lives? What their problems are? Their aspirations? I'm not talking about the aspirations of the conmen who are the first to run up to any candidate. I'm talking about the women in the village, particularly, since they make up probably a bit over half of our nation's people. What are their aspirations? I seriously doubt if it is a biotechnology centre.

I'm sure Dr Waine is honest and committed but this has to be the strongest example I've ever seen of Papua New Guineans who have high formal education ending up with a political approach that is simply irrelevant to the people whose votes they are seeking.

A biotechnology centre for PNG? I reckon it is a reflection of how unrealistic this entire SAP approach is to PNG. On the other hand, if it's used as a cargo lolly to attract the people to vote, maybe SAP is more realistic than I thought.

Does anyone know the answer to the reason in back of the biotechnology centre idea?

Dreams are great but they have to be realistic otherwise they're a waste of time thinking up.

Everyone remember these words because I speak the absolute truth: There will never, ever be a biotechnology centre in Papua New Guinea.

Full stop.

End of statement.

The reality of the world.


Time for Reality

May 4 2007, 4:41 PM 

According to a UN sanctioned report on the biological diversity of PNG in 1995, this island that we call home is a host to over thousands of plants, animals, micro-organisms etc which further contain some of the unique chemical compounds, including their genetic information that have many applications in medicine, agriculture, cosmetics and self care products. Now, if I were to go through the details of how these wealth of scientific knowledge ends up in foreign labs where they are patented and developed, the monetary value of the discoveries which originally belongs to you and I, the value far exceeds what the gold, copper, nickel and all the non-renewable resources contribute to the GDP of this country. (Remember, we can boast about our ownership of land and claim to own the gold and mineral resources but do we get the value for our resources???)

We in the scientific community have long been pushing for the establishment of such a center (Biotechnology) to tap into our natural resources here however no grounds were gained because politicians, including Mr. "Commentary" do not see beyong the walls of their air conditioned offices and the monitor of their computers.

In order to generate sufficient revenue base to sustain the need of every electorate, rural population, women and children and the "wish list" that aspiring politicians, accountants, lawyers, etc have on their shopping list, science and technology ought to be accorded the respect it needs to realise the huge potential that is under utilised.

With no government support so far, I for one have produced results that contain alot of promise when translated into monetary values. Unless we start to listening to each other and respect the views of others, we will not progress.

The Biotechnology Center is a welcome news because its full potential will be realised a few years down the road. The future global market will be in the biotechnology sector and PNG has to get involved now to reap the benefits tomorrow.

I am leaving my email contact for those who may be interested to know how many of our genetic and chemical compounds from PNG are earning the patent owners millions overseas while we continue to underestimate our biotechnology potential.

Thank you.


My God let's get real

May 4 2007, 5:06 PM 

Before you go pushing for such high minded goals, would you consider:

1-That many of our rural schools are completely closed down and entire regions have no access to formal education any more?

2-That even close to our towns you will frequently find AID posts that have no medicines whatsoever?

You people are obviously living in some dreamworld that is far far from the realities of Papua New Guinea today.

jane doe

Re: My God let's get real

May 4 2007, 6:19 PM 

I agree with with "disgusted" on these two issues, although I wouldn't totally discount the concept of a 'biotechnology centre'.

PNG needs the basics which we had prior to Independence. We need basic infrastructure to be rebuilt and maintained e.g. roads, schools, hospitals, village AID posts. That should be the focus of candidates for their region.

Some of you maybe to young to remember PNG in the late 60's early 70's.

As a small girl I would walk my bubuman 1km down the road to the Aid Post (EVERY VILLAGE HAD ONE) for whatever illness/injury he had. It was maintained and manned by a local nurse. The District Kiap would come once a month to restock bandages, aspirin, medicines etc WITHOUT fail, rain hail or shine he would be there and he would bring a Doctor to tend the villagers who couldn't get to town where the hospital was.

The roads were in good condition, the schools and hospitals were well maintained and stocked. All public buildings, lawns, gardens and facilities were immaculately kept, in my memory from 1969 - 1980 seven days a week. My bubuman said from 1978 to his death in 1999 the place went to s**t. He never wanted Independence, he kept asking up until his death "When are they Australians coming back?".

There were 'race and equality' issues with the 'white mastas' that I am not denying but by the same token I can't also deny that after they left it all pretty much went to s**t.

But we do have our "Independence, freedom and equality" - The educated minority wanted it, we got it and look what they've done with it. The 80% majority in the village have watched their standard of living and access to good health care facilities, and schools for their children decline.

The uneducated majority trusted the educated minority to steer the ship after the Australians left.

How much personal and economic 'independence, freedom and equality ' do we really have in PNG?

If a government can't maintain these basic facilities then we need to be asking serious questions. Maintenance of basic health and education in PNG is appalling. The government will build new hospitals, schools, stadiums etc and attend the official opening ceremonies, accept the kudos that invariably goes with it but they always fail to maintain. Why, is it because maintenance involves long term planning and budgeting and fiscal discipline.

Encourage your wantoks and rellies to vote for the candidate that offers long term solutions to health, education and basic infrastructure as a priority.


Re: My God let's get real

May 5 2007, 11:38 AM 

Disgusted and Jane doe ought to get out of their little cubicles and look at the bigger picture. Their view will fit nicely into the bigger picture if we can generate sufficient revenue to boost the GDP, which will address their little problem.
Right now, we will not go anywhere if we start thinking small.

jane doe

little problem

May 5 2007, 12:09 PM 


Why do you consider the 'quality of life' issues of 80% of the population a "little problem"?

As for revenue to boost the GDP that shouldn't be necessary to "address our little problems". We have funds allocated in the budget to solve these "little" problems of AIDS education, schools, health etc. it's jsut been mismanaged somewhere between budget time and delivery to the people.

If you don't have an educated, healthy and living population you won't have anyone to "think big".

Read the first sentence of my posting, I don't have a problem with 'biotech' there is a place for it, I just don't think it is as important as health, education and the provision and maintenance of basic infrastructure.


Re: little problem

May 12 2007, 11:27 AM 

You are spot on. Evaluating 'development' and 'progress' in any other way than measuring the quality of life will result in a completely false assessment. A nation's economy can be growing monetarily, yet the money is accumulating into the hand's of a very few, while the majority feel more and more hopeless and spend what little money they have seeking relief in alcohol, gambling, etc.

What I find so unrealistic about Dr Waine's plans for PNG is that he seems to be addressing the minority better offs rather than the majority worse offs. For example, he wants a vast improvement in science education. Fine, but let's start by re-opening literally hundreds of closed down schools, where students have no ability to learn anything.

I think that Dr Waine would find, after election, that just solving the basic problems of PNG will use up all the money we have. There simply is no money for more dreamtime imagination ideas. Remember all the international airports we were going to have in different places? Alotau actually upgraded to that point yet still there are so few tourists it doesn't pay for the expense of upgrading the airport.

Then there was the crazy marine world idea of many years back for Ela Beach. Thank God only a few hundred thousand kina were wasted pursuing that crazy idea.

All those ideas were heavily promoted at the time, and those laughiung at the ideas were putdown as lacking vision. Crazy, crazy, crazy, that's what we see all those ideas to be now.

Biotech centres will certainly join the "crazy ideas of PNG" list when history judges.


anonymous - liklik samting

May 5 2007, 12:25 PM 


so waht you are saying is unless you think big, talk big you are not worth caring about-the 80 percent uneducated majority can take a jump, because you're only concerned about the 'big things'.

Let me get this right "the government can't get the small things right but it can get the big things right so let it get the big things right before it fixes the small things".

So we'll run first and then learn to crawl later. wanem kain logic.

My View

Some thoughts

May 4 2007, 11:01 PM 

1. I hold no affiliation to the SAP political party and the views that follow may not reflect the management of the party.

2. Aspirations of every PNGian may be specific, but am sure they almost always group into hope for security, welfare, satisfaction and happiness. People attempt to harness related factors in life to realize these hopes. I agree that basic needs in every aspect of development must be addressed and political party platforms/policies seem to show these, only that they are not effectively and prudently implemented.

3. Every academically/professionally trained PNGian MUST take responsibility and uphold the welfare of our nation. These endeavors must be for the pride and reputation of her standing in the global community. SAP may be fostering these notions through its policies, thus a vision for a national biotechnology centre. It is a good policy and can be highly beneficial if potentials for biotechnology (biotech) were properly understood and exploited.

4. Policies and accompanying strategies may be short term, medium term and long term, and are established to guide and direct one's developmental activities. It is not like SAP will establish the biotech centre after forming the government in August, 2007. There is always a need for SWOT analysis.

5. Biotech is not a new concept to humanity; only coined and applied differently for mankind has advanced. Since the dawn of civilization mankind has practiced biotech, only that we have moved from the basic practices of manipulating and protecting plants & animals to using highly advanced modern biotech. It is the modern biotech PNG needed to apply in areas 'Stew' has mentioned. We should not shy away, but explore the possibilities of such technologies that have proven to have the potential of generating good cash, which certainly will facilitate other aspects of development raised in this thread.

6. Some aspects of modern biotech is already being practiced in training and research institutions such as PNG Unitech (Lae), OPRA (Kimbe), PNGIMR (Goroka), NBPOL (DAMI), NARI (some stations), PNGCRI (Aiyura) and PNGCCI (Kerevat). As a cost/benefit approach, a central biotech facility can be established and its activities streamlined to address same or similar issues being worked on by the above organizations. A national policy would facilitate this approach and SAP may be in this line of thought.

7. "Go and take dominion over all creation," said the Maker. My attitude is that no encouter in life is a problem, but only a challenge. And challenge is the Maker's package to us to test and expose our potential. I am with any capable PNGian intellectual who dares into uncommon frontiers that hold promise for a better tomorrow.


Re: Some thoughts

May 4 2007, 11:37 PM 

Think big!

Don't waste your time underestimating PNG's capabilities and that of the human resources it has produced. That's how people become successful and countries become powerful. They don't look within their limitations but how they can turn their wildest dreams into realities. Nothing is impossible! We can turn PNG into an industrialized country if we have the right leaders who think beyond their 5 yr political life-span.

Mi tok ya, Clement putim het wantaim olgeta save man blong yumi bai yumi ken wokim senis. He needs to affiliate with the right people...SAP as a party itself is OK but I am very much skeptical of its other members.

My View

Re: Some thoughts

May 5 2007, 8:17 AM 

Kanaka, I agree...

As I have said, I am with those intellectuals who are prepared to take some risk for the better. Once it was thought separating seamese twins with a single membrane partitioning their brains was an impossible task, and those attempting the feat were deamed to fail. A black American doctor (Dr. Ben Carson) came along, decided to take the challenge and created history! Who said PNGians were incapable! We can! Any inferiority attitude is only in the mind!!


Re: Some thoughts

May 5 2007, 9:42 AM 

Sorry. Dr Waine's dreams go far into the realm of unreality and make-up stuff.

Maybe a couple months actually living in villages will cure him of that and next time around we can see a much more realistic SAP platform.

We can only hope.


Re: Some thoughts

May 5 2007, 10:44 AM 


I am just as excited by the possibilities of PNG's involvement in biotech industries as you are, although I don't understand the scientific aspects of it - I work with numbers. Of course PNG's human resources are untapped but first you have to make sure they receive a good education and live to fulfil the dream.

My argument is that the 80% majority who live in the villages are lacking basic services in the way of schools, aid posts, law and order, clean water, good roads and hygienic hospitals and a growing spread of violence and gangs roaming around a law unto themselves, especially in the highlands. There is the growing AIDS pandemic. They are concerned with 'quality of life' for their children and kin. Biotechnology does not figure in their list of priorities at the moment, it may 10 years from now with the next generation, if their basic needs are met.

Of course there is no reason why biotechonology and these core quality of life issues shouldn't all be considered and funded. We have always had enough funds for it, it has always been mismanaged.

jane doe

commentary - biotech dreamtime concoction

May 5 2007, 11:40 AM 


'The reality of the world' you mean your world - this is your opinion and yours alone you don't speak for anyone else, these are limitations you place on yourself.

You mentioned in your posting that 'dreams are great, they have to be realistic otherwise they are a waste of time'.

I do believe the same thing was said on many occasions to 'Gandhi, Martin Luthur King, Mandela, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Emmeline Pankhurst, Eddie Mabo etc.

I find merit in your argument that SAP policies and Dr Waines approach may be on a completely different level than the audience he is playing to. It's a big gap to bridge. We'll find out soon enough.


Y the SAP forum was locked/removed

May 4 2007, 9:51 PM 


Ating ol lokim na rausim olsem sampela manmeri were belittling & insulting Dr Waines character.


Re: Y the SAP forum was locked/removed

May 5 2007, 1:01 PM 


I have alot of time and respect for Dr Waine. I think we all do not dream enough and I applaud him for dreaming.

I too have dreams for PNG, I am giving up hope that it can be achieved in the realm of politics though. I am setting out, in my own small way to achieve my dreams.

The many problems mentioned by Jane Doe et al, can be solved if our people voted wisely, which unfortunately as history has shown and this election will also show, they do not. I for one blame our rural masses for all our problems because they make up 95% of our voting population so aside from Lady Kidu, Sir Mekere and Bire Kimisopa the rest of our political leadership is elected by the rural masses who are now screaming for services. Em rong bilong husait?

Our intellectuals need to dream and pursue those dreams and if it will take someone like Dr Waine to give those dreams arms and legs then so be it. Otherwise all of us intelectuals are going to leave this country for challenges elsewhere. By nature, our intelligence results in a loss of confidence and patience for those less endowed with the gift of intelligence. I certainly find myself shying away from interacting with our unwise, unintelligent masses. They are so stupid it upsets me.

The problem we intellectuals face in our own country is that we are looked upon with so much jealousy and enmity that no matter how hard we try to convince the rest of our countrment and women that we know what is best for this country, no-one would believe us.

So give Dr Waine a chance, he will probably lose the election but then again, no intellectual has ever won an election in this country.


AB-Don't be a coward

May 5 2007, 2:39 PM 

AB - don't be a coward, the blame lies 100% with the pollies that don't do what they are elected and paid for. It's like the master blaming the slave for his own situation "well if you weren't born black you wouldn't be a slave".

don't blame the rural masses - most are uneducated, can't read, write and live as their ancestors did. How can you reasonably expect them to dissect and debate policies, most of the time i can't understand the policies and i'm halfway educated. The last time you were in your village did you discuss voting and politics with you relatives? What response did you get?

I tried last christmas and most of my relations said "I just pick a box randomly and tick". i ask why and they say doesn't matter what box i tick whats going to change, our lives haven't changed in 20 years, skul buruk, rot buruk, hausik kapsait na sting, sik nogut painim planti man na meri.

That is why basic infrastructure maintenance is VITAL, we need to maintain the schools we do have and make education more accessible to the remoter areas of the country, more positions in High Schools, National High and universities need to be made available. Education is the key.


Re: AB-Don't be a coward

May 5 2007, 2:52 PM 

Dont be a bloody negative ass all the time. A positive input and thoughts by you to your relations will make a big difference. C'mon mate, play some positive role in getting your people educated and maski sindaun nating na tingting long ol negative samting tasol.

Maybe we all will make a difference if we started thinking positive about ourselves, our province, our country and contribute in our little way to move forward despite all the negative comments we are getting from media and overseas people.

I think that is exactly what Dr Clement Waine is doing and I salute him for that.

jane doe


May 5 2007, 3:09 PM 

Anonymous/Disgusted - there is no need for name calling e.g. ass/coward.

We all come across people whose opinions vary from ours, everyone is entitled to their opinion. We don't need to degenerate into personal insults.

I find it easier to convince someone to respect or even agree with my viewpoint when I treat them with courtesy.


Uneducated majority on Scape

May 5 2007, 3:18 PM 

Rather than starting to educate others, maybe all of this board should start educating ourselves. Our knowledge of a lot of issues, judging from the lack of depth of discussion on these boards, does NOT indicate a high level of education. Since hardly anyone seems to come forward to add this needed detail, I can only assume that people on these boards are fairly UNeducated.



May 5 2007, 3:41 PM 

Thanks for bringing that to our attention Anonymous. This is just a pastime for most of us as we work,study or do both and as such don't have the time or inclination to discuss issues in depth, yumi pilai tasol.

RR - My name is rokrok and i am guilty of posing as an educated individual. Please don't flog me your highness, how was i to know that you need to have attended university to be considered 'educated' you see my illiterate grandfather was a village chief and the wisest man i ever knew, even today compared to all the 'educated' leaders of our country.

JUDGE - You are hereby sentenced to 10 years of fully funded study at universities around the country.

RR - nooooooooo please sir anything but that.

Sorry, just having a laugh.

Personally, I value commonsense, moral courage and integrity above an education. In a perfect world we would have all three.


Re: Anon-educated

May 5 2007, 3:47 PM 

I agree totally with you about the value of common sense and morality. But if this is a site where issues are discussed, and nearly all the discussions lack substance (with some exceptions) then we come off after reading the discussions hardly knowing anything more than we did before, which wasn't much to begin with!

People beg for details about candidates and all they get in return is the standard political mumble jumble, wantok loyalties and warnings that their candidate will win so there's not need to discuss that person sooner.

Such superficiality even amongst PNGeans with access to the internet! Aiooo mama.

My View


May 6 2007, 8:21 AM 

Anon., rokrok and others

1. We may be faced with the issue of diversity in interpreting concepts. When there is diversity, any input of a subject is always going to fetch differing response. This diversity may be in education, wisdom, maturity, experience (whatever), cultural affiliation, etcetera. Oh, and one original (by birth) diversity we ought ALWAYS remember is: We are all individuals - biblically recorded and scientifically proven. This is why in statistical mathematics, we always consider descriptive and inferential analysis of a sample population to determine averages (central tendencies), confidence intervals, probabilities (chances of expected outcomes/responses), trends, etcetera.

Hence, next time you encounter those with divergent opinions to some fundamental or important concepts, SMILE, keep silent and move on. NOT because you don't know, but you understand.

2. Our deliberations refer to SAP and its policies, particularly of interest to me is the policy on national biotecnology centre. Some of us have said this was CW's 'dream' and 'may be completely at a different level'. To these views, I find no problem, but smile because so often we see radical acts or revolutionary ideas or dreams/visions change our surroundings! One great mind who has passed through our time, Albert Einstein left two messages: (i) Think different, and (ii) Imagination is better than knowledge.

Hence, next time you wish to make a significant contribution of some sort, being slightly different from all else may be an attitude worth a try.

3. Some of us may be thinking that biotech is so hi-tech, daunting to operate and need to educate ourselves and fix our infrastructure first. But are we aware that there's already so much hi-tech stuff in PNG amid uneducated masses and poor infrastructure? Look at advanced technology used by Exxon/Mobil (natural gas), Inteoil (oil refinery), Chinese firms (Ramu nickel mine), NBPOL (oil palm processors), those in operation in copper and gold mines, etc.

See, bringing in these technologies to PNG has created employment (to some uneducated masses as well) and generated much needed revenue for the nation. I am confident biotech can make these contributions as well.

4. The conditions of poor basic services others mentioned is a reflection of poor leadership in politics and low efficiency in the pubic service machinery. And not due to the beneficial technologies we adopt!

jane doe

Well said - My View

May 6 2007, 12:03 PM 


Well said 'my view'. Correct me if I'm wrong, it would take a decade or so to establish and nurture a biotech industry to profitable status. It's not like SAP would establish it in 2007.

That would provide ample time to tackle the basic infrastructure issues of appalling health and education facilities.

I'm not against biotech and high tech industries, we live in an increasingly and overwhelmingly tehnological world and need to be able to compete effectively and often that means providing a product with a difference. I wholly belive there is a place for it IF we have the manpower with the relevant education and experience to implement it effectively.

The question is are we dealing with 'maybes' or 'definites', I believe we are at a critical point in history.

I would prefer government to fullly fund this type of industry as we know that international drug companies have a long history of unsavoury and immoral practices when it comes to patents and business. Legal yes but of questionable moral integrity e.g. charging poor South Americans and Africans outrageously to provide AIDS medications.

A well maintained infrastructure is the economic and social foundation of any country. Let's fix the fundamental probelms first.

Without a solid basic infrastructure PNG is like a 10 bedroom beachhouse with a entertainment room, pool and 5 bathrooms, the owners fully aware that termites are chewing away at the foundations underneath continue to argue over whether they should add a bathroom or a granny flat.

BTW it's ok to disagree with me, I won't insult you or take it personally - its acceptable for us to 'agree to disagree'.

This discussion has piqued my curiousity about biotech industries though, will have to read up on it.

stret frm horse's mouth

Intending politicians need to be realistic

May 6 2007, 12:04 PM 

Have you ever heard of 'appropriate technology'? That which fits the cultural surroundings and environment?

Of course the outcomes of biotech could be applied as appropriate technology but at this point we'd be wasting a lot less time if we look around at the appropriate technology that advancing developing (not developed) countries have that is widespread in their population but absent in PNG and pull those things in first.

Truly appropriate technology starts with something like horses. Any villager can handle them with fairly low training, and can be sustained at the village level. The only reason why horses haven't worked until now is that people like the educated elite on this board would turn their noses up, preferring imported landcruisers instead. Unlike the landcruisers, horses do not require any further loss of our kina into foreign hands, and do not require fuel that relies on imported equipment, yet still does a huge amount of positive work. If you look at any country in the world, you'll see that some kind of beasts of burden were essential for sustainable development, where the skills and wealth became widespread through the population and not accumulated into the hands of a very few as has been true for PNG ever since we started focusing on bringing in inappropriate imported technology.

Honestly, those of you who have studied or spent lots of time overseas have completely lost the plot as to what makes sense for the majority of our people. If you actually spend a lot of time in the village, you must be so busy talking that you never sit back and listen to what people have to say. The majority of our people will not prosper from more crazy ideas because we've been trying to apply ideas straight from developed countries for more than a generation now and seen nothing but one flop after another flop.

In 2007, we talk about the biotech idea as if for the first time our educasted people are coming up with new ideas. That's nonsense. There is a whole string of fancy new ideas out of PNG brains that goes back to independence and before. Amongst our great ideas that have mostly failed are:

-fancy imported diesel powered crop huskers and hullers (unsustainable because of high import costs and high cost of upkeep),

-growing rice (mostly a failure because the highest producing varieties of rice are not an appropriate crop for our culture or our environment),

-hybrid coconuts (great for putting food into the hands of foreign companies, but villagers don't like the poor production for their own food needs),

-solar power (expensive even for developed countries so how on earth did anyone expect PNG villagers to sustain this in any more than a scattered, extremely rare fashion?),

-motorised vehicles (sustainable only in the towns; rural people cannot even sustain their own PNG service without heavily subsidising vehicle purchase and upkeep from their cash crop revenues).

None of those great ideas worked at advancing our rural people as much as those great ideas worked to benefit only a few, discourage many more because of the idea's nonsustainability, and (because most of those ideas are imported) just put a lot more of our scarce kina into foreign hands.

Development occurs successfully only if taken one small step at a time. Go get some lessons learnt literature from the World Bank, it's been floating around the unis for years (but obviously not being read).

The reason why the biotechnology centre idea is being criticised is not because we shouldn't be creative. The whole crux of the criticism is that our creativity needs to start being anchored in the realities of our nation, its environment, and the majority of its peoples.

Why is that last, main point so quickly lost in some otherwise-intelligent brains here?

If you want to see much more appropriate technology that's coming straight from people who really do know the village, go seek out the appropriate technogy centre outside of Goroka on the road to Gahavisuka. It's run by a British fellow married locally and even though he wasn't born in PNG the more I read these crazy biotech centre ideas, the more I think that fellow is the real Papua New Guinean while those arguing biotech centres on Scape are better off remaining overseas and contributing to the environment that better fits their creative thinking.

jane doe

world bank

May 6 2007, 12:38 PM 

horses mouth,

I agree with everything you said except the "World Bank". They didn't invent 'development - how to get there' most of it is common sense and financial and government discipline. We don't need to mimic blindly its okay to take the initiative or disgree.

The World Bank is partially responsible for making already bad situations in poor countries worse.

What they did in Bolivia in 2000 was outrageous. World Bank coerced the government into privatising water in secret negotiations with one bidder Bechtel - forcing poor people to pay an entire months wages for water, most of these people are villagers but were still expected to pay, most had to choose between food and water.

The people revolted, hundreds of thousands clashed with the police, the government had to renege on the deal after 3 days of riots, one 17 year old boy dead and 100s injured.

Bechtel sued the Bolivian government for $50million of 'potential lost earning'. The case continued for 5 years, Bechtel was hounded on all continents to give up the case. Eventually in January 2006 it settled the case for 30cents US.

Throughout all of this chaos the World Bank remained silent.


This is one example of World Bank tactics.


Re: Intending politicians need to be realistic

May 6 2007, 12:43 PM 

"Stret from horses Mouth" appears to be a supporter of the Country Party and the presentation above are the policies of the country party. The presentation further reaffirms my suspicion that it is from the leader of the party.

Olsem mi luksawe tasol.... ating mi giaman??? yu skelim


Re: Intending politicians need to be realistic

May 6 2007, 1:10 PM 

The last thing I would ever want to do is be a spokesperson of a political party. We should be arguing ideas and strategies, not candidates and parties.

Surely by now you realise that almost any person we elect or political party we put into power will become corrupted? The Country party is no different from any of the rest. Peti Lafanama was a wonderful example of how the political system totally corrupts even people who came from an activist, populist background. Peti Lafanama became one of the more corrupt governors of PNG when he was in office.

Even Mekere Morauta, for all his talk now about fighting corruption, was ineffective at fighting corruption when he was in power. While he himself may not have been corrupted (what incentive would he have had), there was plenty of corruption underneath. Arguably, he only became PM because of Wingti's cash and political pressures, and as a result, had to serve as a puppet.

The point is that politicians and political parties are useless in making change in society. NONE of PNG's solutions will come from candidates or political parties. They never have and never will.

Instead, PNG's solutions will come from strategies and ideas embraced by thinking people who accept and appreciate the realities of PNG, which is a nation of mostly isolated, rural people with very very low literacy.

Biotech centre ideas are highly appropriate for highly educated societies such as Singapore or even India. Despite India's vast millions of struggling poor, it also has a much more solid, widespread educated base than PNG does.

There are 2 boxes that people on this board can't get their brains outside of. First is the box that politicians will create development for us and solve our problems (organised churches have tended to do a far better job at education and health). The second is the box that our future ideas must come from developed countries which are so far ahead of us it's not even funny.

What percentage of PNG's population has Grade 12 level education after a generation of independence? It's in the single digits and our education system is getting worse.

What percentage of the average 'developed country' has Grade 12 level education? At least 3/4 of the population. At least. Unlike PNG's education system, there's is improving.

That alone is the reason why biotech centre like ideas are ridiculous to even entertain. Politicians love those ideas, however, because they're like a cargo cult. Mysterious and appearing to deliver great benefit to people. So people grab onto the idea and hope without reason that such ideas will come to pass and bring great development to PNG.

It's little different than the way we have grabbed onto one fast money scheme after another.

Enough of this Country Party, SAP party, and similar political nonsense. Our future lies in coming up with realitic ideas and letting everyone trash those ideas (just like occurs in developed countries) until everyone is very clear about the pros and cons of each one.

In PNG, those who come up with the ideas have the tendency to want everyone to accept them without criticism.


anonymous - realistic

May 6 2007, 1:56 PM 

anonymous you contradict yourself. On the one hand you state categorically that any politician or party we elect will become corrupted and therefore serve themselves only. You then go on to encourage us to come up with realistic ideas, debate them until we are aware of pros and cons and then what.

What happens with those 'realistic ideas'. They have nowhere to fruition because as you stated in your first paragraph all government officholders and decision makers are corrupted. How would you suggest we implement these 'realistic' ideas without government involvement? What strategy would you use, because frankly I don't have any idea how you accomplish it without government involvement. 'Realistic ideas' are meaningless without a means of implementation.

Take education for example - I'm glad you mentioned that. That coupled with health is my main concern. I think we need to focus on educating the rural masses. I firmly believe we need more schools in remote areas. We need more high schools and national high schools. And more importantly we need more positions in those institutions, we lose thousands of students through the education system simply because the positions aren't there.
I agree with you on deepening and widening that education base.

If I'm one of those students who missed out on going onto high school, National High or University, the future looks bleak as we don't have enough alternative government training institutions to pick them up like the Technical, Trade & Secretarial schools. These all exist in limited numbers in the cities, we need to build them within reach of remote populations.

Focus should not be on a 'university' education only.

My cousin completed YR10, missed out on a place at National High and learnt the boilermaker trade in the highlands, his Kiwi boss saw an advertisment on the web for tradesmen to work on the mines in Australia and encouraged him to apply, assisted him with his paperwork and he is now earning 90000 Australian Dollars per year and has applied for permanent residency.

In Australia tradespeople are the new rich - plumbers, plasterers, boilermakes etc earn more than university graduates - why because noone in Australia wants to get their hands dirty - the young ones want to get 'degrees' in the mistaken belief that they will get paid more because of it, provided they find a job, the unemployed get paid to do nothing, the farmers can't find people to pick their fruit because generally speaking Australians are lazy.


Realistic ideas are ideas that villagers can implement.

May 6 2007, 3:59 PM 

What happens to those realistic ideas? You jump over the ineffective political structure and work straight with the communities. If the communities can't take on the ideas by themselves then obviously the ideas aren't very realistic, are they? Yet, villagers make up the great majority of our population.

This is not a theory. It's been going on in some villages for many years now, there have been a number of hand roads built and maintained in remote areas by communities, for years there have been communities creating their own bush material classrooms and I've heard that some communities take their cash crop income and contribute some of the money to buy medicines for distribution after their aid posts have collapsed.

What we need more of is publicity that these things are possible and Papua New Guineans at the village level are perfectly capable of solving problems that our politicians have not only not corrected, but actually made worse.

My View

Choose where you want to belong

May 7 2007, 2:04 PM 

1. Let me make the final observation in this thread. I have surveyed the inclination towards the establishment of the national biotech centre in PNG and am now aware of the attitude from those that responded.

2. Global systems, to which PNG is a part are highly stratified. By development indicators a nation is graded as: a failed state, under-developed state, developing state, or developed state. We choose which class we want to belong by deciding whether or not we 'speak the 21st century language'. PNG is a member to the regional and international organizations such as WTO, APEC, ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF), SPC, MSG, etc, and our local development and progress often stands the scutiny of our neighbor nations.

3. Global socio-demography and socio-economy, to which PNG is a part has progressed through the ice age, stone age, iron/metal age and now electronic age (drivers of information technology and biotech). We choose which class we want to belong by deciding the type of technology we adopt.

4. PNG inhabitation may not be that young. Archeological dating shows human arrival at least 60,000 years ago and practice of settled agriculture dates some 9,000 years ago. In the 21st century, do we still want to appear ignorant and practice gullibility by entertaining attitude and practices of our not so learned (by modern standard) ancestors?

5. Administration and governance of PNG is not that young! Formal possession of New Guinea by Germans (1899) and Bristish protectorate of Papua (1844); postwar Papua and New Guinea Act (1949); first house of Assembly (1964); Papua and New Guinea called Papua New Guinea (1972); First election (1972); Independence (1975). Year 2007 marks the election of the 8th parliament (pre/post-independence). We have seen the Prime Ministers: Somare (Teacher/Radio Announcer), Chan (Economist), Wingti (Political Scientist), Namaliu (Political Scientist), Skate (Economist) and Morauta (Economist). In the 21st century, does PNG's status reflect her 'political age' and the calibre of leadership? What is our choice?

6. Biotechnology (technology of life sciences) is practiced by professions of agriculture, Forestry, Fisheries, Medical biology, zoology, pharmaceutics, etcetera. Twenty PhD holders (may be more), tens more with masters degree and hundreds graduate yearly from overseas and our Universities with knowledge and skills of biotech. Fifteen plus currently pursuing PhD and masters overseas in the the area of biotech. To argue that PNG is not ready for biotech or to say that thinking up this idea is nonsense or to assert that biotech is for the developed nations reflects IGNORANCE of this discipline and the biological sciences it represents. Experts have developed the 'PNG Biotechnology Act' bill and is currently before the NEC. In anticipation for its approval, political parties must derive policies to accommodate its proper implementation.

7. Finally, demographic structure in PNG demands that policies target varying groups. Ok, PNG need to design policies accommodating appropriate technology to cater for the massess to which it may be applicable. In the contrary, create platforms on hi-tech (e.g. biotech, IT, etc) to enable our elites to advance PNG in the 21st century. Lack of appropriate government policies results in brain drain as trained citizens seek professional satisfaction off-shore.

[to be filed safely in a deep drawer]

Another excellent government report

May 8 2007, 8:10 PM 

I've read what you've written. I've seen your technique many times before in government departments where the bureaucrats come up with a lengthy and impressive analysis and reach a conclusion that completely contradicts what anyone just going outside and smelling the coffee would realise.

You're way off base, mate. When was the last time you lived in a community with the "average" Papua New Guinean? Of course I'm not talking about the minority population which lives in the towns, I'm talking about the villages themselves. You're living in a cloud land, but then again welcome to the POM government.

From the cloud land

Reality does hurt!

May 8 2007, 10:39 PM 

No offense, mate. When you argue with data, it hurts! An era will dawn when we will gnash our teeth, clench our fists, weep bitterly and regret: If only we had listened. When the neglected "living in a cloud land" fold their hands, the masses still clothed in ass tangets with digging sticks in hand will wade through terrains of confusion and fade into the mire of ignorance. Surely, the end will justify the mean!


yada yada yada

May 9 2007, 1:52 PM 

You forget. We've had worthless dreamland thinkers ever since the days of Bernard Narokobi and the bully beef club. That's been more than a generation of fine ideas, if it wasn't biotech it was something just as dumb but more sexy for that period in time.

Alomost without exception such ideas have resulted in heaps of useless documents, unrealistic plans and worse yet, needless waste of tens of millions of kina of our precious money for those dumb ideas lucky enough to get to an implementation stage, which was soon followed by project collapse.

Learn from history. Bright ideas that are irrelevant to our state of development, environment or society didn't start popping up only with today's incoming leadership. They've been around always and always created the same waste of time and resources.


Re: Choose where you want to belong

May 8 2007, 11:00 PM 

you facts are wrong e.g. wingti and namaliu are not political scientists...wingti didn't finish uni and namaliu is an economist


Not even the educateds vote wisely

May 5 2007, 2:55 PM 

Just take a look on this board at the countless scapers promoting politicians well known to be corrupt, even having been found guilty by leadership tribunal.

Don't you go blaming things on people less educated. The biggest screwups I've seen in PNG are by people with university educations.


Re: Not even the educateds vote wisely

May 7 2007, 2:20 PM 

We need to move forward. We can't keep side-stepping the issues. Dr Waine wants to grab the issues by the throat. I think it is unrealistic but I admire him for trying.

Heck! I can't do what he is aiming to do.

My point is that in a democratic country, the people always get what they want. Those of us who know better, know that the people should not always get what they want. They should get what they need.

Let me give you an example (as stated on FM Talkback last week), Arther Somare has given the people of Angoram around 5.0 million cocoa seedlings, around 500 dinghies and O/B motors, around 500 cocoa fermentaries, thousands of sewing machines, etc, etc. within the last 5 years. Angoram is still not developed today. They produce very little cocoa and their district is still running down.

Should A somare have given his people all those things or should he have provided an environment for them to work to get those things? Is it the MPs fault that he has given his people all these things? Did the people not ask for these things in the first place? If the people did not ask for these things, why did they accept them?

In PNG, the voter has way too much power come election time and this power is then abused by the voter and the end result is clear for us all to see.


Re: Not even the educateds vote wisely

May 8 2007, 5:00 AM 

Is Clement really contesting the coming elections? I would be honestly disappointed if he rescinds from the challenge. I think he can make a good MP for Simbu and perhaps the country. It will all be hogwash if he decides not to stand for election after playing with peoples emotions!


Where is CW?

May 8 2007, 6:59 AM 

Em stap lo simbu. maski mauswara kam na lukim.


Re: Where is CW?

May 8 2007, 9:23 AM 

Ask the SAP countless officials, ol bai tokim yu, em bai ikam long Fraidei o Saturday or Next week. They love to make educated guesses...........

Lazy people make great disciples, prophets of doom love significate dates.

Gembogl, maski long giaman, mi no lukim em long Kundiawa town.

Wara market mangi

7milebeach (Scape Moderator)

Why ?

May 10 2007, 1:34 PM 

It is very sad indeed that a few have grudges against Dr. Waine. I have known Dr Waine from his forum discussions on Wantoks Forum and later onto Scape Forum in the begining.

Many good forum contributers have left because the kind of abuse, degrading and the list goes on.

From memory Dr Waine's message was that he was not standing for this election but in 2012. This time round he was just putting his party's policy into place.

We all want PNG in good hands but the way I see things on this forum and a few PNGeans I meet about the place; We are doomed unless inviduals, communities, organizations and gov change their attitudes dramactically.

Please stay on the topic without insults to Dr. Waine. I will not have it on this forum.


why why why why why

Re: Why ?

May 12 2007, 3:44 AM 

1. I don't understand why not one person who is a supporter of Dr Waine and advertises his policies and political party are willing to put their real name to their words. The critics, I understand why they want to be anonymous. The supports? I don't understand.

2. Why hasn't Dr Waine, who is a frequenter of the internet himself and well familiar with it, appointed a person to speak for him on the internet when he is no personally available? Surely he would know how discussions degenerate on the internet without a reliable source of information? Such simple information as whether or not he would run in 2012 instead of 2007, it would have saved a lot of needless discussion and unhappy stabs.

3. Can someone give us the web site address for the SAP party positions? It seems that Dr Waine did not organise himself to put this into Google so that it could be retrieved.


why why why

May 12 2007, 11:57 AM 

Why haven't we revolted, even though the stench emanating from Parliament Haus and other public institutions is overwhelming and we are choking on it.

Why do we put up with the constant abuse and contempt from our leaders?

Why hasn't the media and public hounded corrupt leaders out of office?

What are our government and corporate watchdogs doing?

Why hasn't someone shot or hurt a politician yet?

Why haven't we conducted weekly or even daily protest marches?

Why would CW or anyone else come on here, you see for yourselves when the rare voices of reason and intelligence voice their views on here they are attacked personally, sometimes mercilessly without reason, thought or logic. Very rarely will you see in depth constructive debate or discussion on here without someone or many making some unnecessary and personally derogatory remarks.

Like the saying goes 'small minds discuss people, big minds discuss ideas'

Besides there aren't many people who visit this site, compared to the 80% majority who live in rural PNG.

We are placing a huge burden on CW by assuming that he is going to be PM after this elections - he hasn't even been elected YET.

CW is concentrating on his electorate - which is where his focus should be. A majority of the population who are living and working in Simbu do not have access to the internet. At this stage of the process his only requirement is that he needs to win the trust and confidence of the Simbus in his electorate.

In any functioning democracy a candidates primary focus needs to be on his electorate, their needs and their concerns. One step at a time.

Of course, at a later stage if he were to become a Minister or PM then his focus would shift and broaden.


Re: Why ?

May 12 2007, 3:37 PM 

Our attitudes are probably piss poor but that's pretty much the way PNG attitudes are going to be for the foreseeable future. Real solutions to our problems will take advantage of those existing attitudes rather than hope that they'll change. They won't change.

Of all the solutions I've read on these boards, the person or people who have proposed the solution of a few well placed bullets are probably the most spot on in what is going to work. Dr Waine would be the same kind of PM as Mekere Morauta or Rabbie Namaliu, all well meaning but totally ineffective. A few well placed bullets, on the other hand, would speak decisively and clearly to all Papua New Guineans that enough is enough.


Re: Not even the educateds vote wisely

May 10 2007, 5:07 PM 

Arthur Somare has always liked telling people in Sepik that the government brings development to the people. Of course this isn't how development came to the developed countries where it was the people themselves who organised themselves into communities, taxed themselves and built their own infrastructures.

The reason why A Somare and other like minded politicians give handouts is that they want people not to be self reliant. they want people to be dependent on politicians like them so that the politicians become more powerful.

As long as the power goes into politician hands instead of staying with the people, we will never develop significantly much less catch up.

Let's not forget that there are many nations in this world that have been independent for a century and more and still are considred developing countries. Anyone who assumes that PNG will be any different from those perpetually "developing" countries don't know much about the similarities we share with those countries.

It is very likely that we will have a small educated, "developed" elite that will remain a tiny percentage of our population for generations. No country becomes developed with that kind of situation.

Enough of the dreamland ideas folks! Let's get practical and let's not let any more politicians lie to us that government is what brings development to people.



May 11 2007, 6:21 PM 

I think your posting hit the nail on the head. We need to grab issues around the neck (some would say we need to grab some pollies by the neck, anyway I digress).

PNGeans generally are not confrontational (except some Highlands areas) when it comes to our leaders and how they conduct themselves. Is it in our nature or do we find it impolite to seek answers from leaders? Is it cultural?

We beat around the bush, we whisper, we wail, we madly type and when we meet the corrupt leaders we smile and act like nothing is wrong. Why is that?

When was the last time we went down to our MP's office in town and demanded answers - I did that in March, first time in 15 years of voting, my MP wasn't there. The office was unmanned and locked. Unlike Peter Barter and Lady Kidu, my MP lives full time in Pt Moresby, I have NEVER seen my MP in our town or province.

I have tried over Christmases at home to convince relatives and friends in the village to carefully choose their candidate not the one who provides you with a six pack.

I have never been involved in civil unrest - sometimes when I read the papers I feel like getting on the plane to POM and 'hurting somebody' at Parliament House. Am I the only one who feels like that. Nothing ever comes of it though, the moment passes and then I read the paper 2 days later and that same feeling washes over me.

Often I think what legacy am I leaving my children. Can I honestly say "I did everything in my power to make a difference, I supported all movement for positive change, I gathered signatures for petitions, I protested, I emailed and wrote to the media, my MP and current government voicing my disapproval and anger at what is happening." and last but not least I participated in revolution to bring about a change in leadership.

No - I'm ashamed to say that I can't say I did all that, some yes but not all.

If any of you in POM - students, professionals,mums or dads mobilise together and organise a protest march to Parliament House or dare I say it a 'revolution' please don't forget us in the regional areas. Publicise it and give us time to save money to buy a ticket to get on a plane to POM so we can do it together.


Re: AB

May 12 2007, 11:34 AM 

After reading your posting, I decided that you probably have at least 10 times more common sense that our SAP candidate. Thank you for your words.


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 6:36 PM 

I am curious to know if Clement nominated at Kundiawa. Can somebody confirm any latest developments from the 4 corner town


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 6:42 PM 

No - his intention was always to stand for 2012 elections. Don't know who started the rumour that he was standing this year. May have been a combination of wishful thinking, communication breakdown and enthusiasm for the idea.


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 8:58 PM 

WRONG, He was standing for 2007 Election, sorry not 2012...wait istap em bai ikam.


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 9:03 PM 

karr na nomination date close pinis...wonem niupla law gen?


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 9:33 PM 

Did he personally tell you that he would stand in 2007 or is this hearsay? I have never heard CW claim in writing or orally that he was standing in 2007. Many supporters and couch critics have said he would, that alone doesn't make it so.


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 10:31 PM 

Yes, wantok, I do not think he personally told you either that he is not contesting the 2007 and 2012. He left an e-mail add on a previous forum, wrote to him on Clement_waine@hotmail.com traim. See what the reply says.
Nogut mitupela na ol arapela to bai wokim speculations tasol.
Wanbel em istap, wantok noken kros, I am just not hearsaying..got the word from the man himself..from the top


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 10:33 PM 

By the way, he got nominated today so check the electoral office, his name should be there. He does not need to blow his horns when he comes. He is the man, for PM..Full Support SAP


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 10 2007, 10:38 PM 

candidates do not need to present themselves at the Provicial or District electoral office to nominate. They can nominate in absence and the next six weeks is busy time for SAP, check your local guidess

Please, noken blamim SAP, mipela olgeta PNG baagrap pinis. C.W is no messiah, If you have a point to make, please concentrate on Paias Wingty or Somare or Namaliu or Mekere or Chan, they are the ones who added debts to you Countries Dinau to the world outside. Giraun, Gold, Copper, oil em bilong ol outside lain, na yupela tok pait long husait.

Isi liklike Dr. Clement Waine is going to run the Simbu Regional for 2007


Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 11 2007, 9:28 AM 

Confirm that Clement Waine is contesting Simbu Regional for 2007. The ball stays in the court of the Simbu's to vote this Simbu in or not. One can't decide on that except the Simbu's decide. Everyone in PNG other than Chimbu's can't make comments on this lads achievements or ambitions. He excelled in his field of Bio Tech and that is one thing that we PNG should be proud of him. As a Prime Minister, Whoever wanted to comment on this, you have to comment on Wingti, Somare, Chan, Namaliu, Mekere because they led this nation into Debts and poverty. We can believe their stories, but the fruits justify otherwise, that this country is being sold to World BAnk, IMF, ADB or whoever that we get money to develop this country.

Nogat hope!

Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 11 2007, 11:51 AM 

Wrong start pal!

You began on a wrong footing. Get your priorities right before putting your hand up for elections in PNG!


Gates close on potential politicians

A NUMBER of candidates had their nominations turned down yesterday, while questions surround the validity of the nomination of Stars Alliance party leader Clement Waine for the Simbu provincial seat.
Dr Waine, who is based in the United States, was not in Kundiawa to nominate, causing anguish and confusion among his supporters and candidates alike.
After nominations were closed in Kundiawa and draws for the ballot for the Provincial seat was held, Dr Waine’s name drew number six.
Simbu provincial election manager John Elle said Dr Waine’s nomination had been accepted in Port Moresby by Electoral Commissioner Andrew Trawen.
Mr Elle told those who gathered for the draw that Mr Trawen had advised him to accept Dr Waine’s nomination.
He said they also did the same for another candidate, Peter Raiss Tine.
Mr Trawen could not be reached to confirm this, but media consultant to the commission Mark Karambi said he understood that a candidate needed to be in his electorate to nominate, and the nomination must be witnessed by the returning officer.
It is understood Dr Waine’s opponents would be seeking further clarification on this.
Meanwhile, a number of candidates were turned away after they turned up late to nominate.
In the NCD, one intending candidate attempted to nominate at about 4.05pm but was turned away at the gate by the electoral officers.
Electoral officers explained that if they let the candidate in, they would be breaking the law and would be charged.
Amos Junior Yawi said he would have nominated earlier but was waiting to collect enough money to pay his nomination fee.
He accepted that he was late and said he would wait until the next elections.
In Goroka, five intending candidates missed out on nominating, the reason being that their political parties failed to meet the nomination fee.
Returning Officer Alwyn Jimmy said these candidates were misled by certain political parties, who had promised to support them.
Mr Jimmy said these parties promised to pay their nomination fees and by close of nomination yesterday, these parties had not lived up to their promises.
He said there was nothing he could do and that by law, these people were out of the race.
In Simbu province, three candidates were not allowed to nominate because they showed up after 4:06pm, while another would have his K1,000 fee refunded because he did not turn up to sign the necessary forms.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 11 2007, 12:33 PM 



Waine sees PNG in year 2020

May 11 2007, 12:54 PM 

PNG in the year 2020
Dr Clement Waine (PhD)

We have just ushered in the New Year 2007. The ink recording the resolutions for the New Year on the crumbled papers are yet to dry up. I would gladly join in the fanfare but this time I want to raise a point for national discussion. What will PNG be like in the year 2020? I am compelled to ask this question because this is the year to change the guards across the land.
In order to prospect the future, history will always be the guiding post that enables us to extrapolate beyond the present. The year 2020 is only 13 years away. Children that are born now will be reaching puberty and high on hormones, driving their parents crazy. What will their world be like? What sort of country will we, as a collective nation, create for them?
PNG was formed in the crucible of time and space. Within the last 30 years, we have evolved from a nation of countless tribes into a form of democracy that we call PNG. We have achieved much in the process. Our democracy has not faltered along the lines of ethnic fissures as experienced elsewhere around the world and in our region. We have treaded, so many times, around the rim of the abyss. Yet, we have pulled back every time. Our democracy is unique. Based on our own understanding of the world outside of our shores and our own understanding of the intricate uniqueness that characterizes our nation, we remain resolute to make this country truly unique in every sense of the word. Our democracy is best described as the Unity in Diversity.
The forefathers who stood at the Independence Hill that 16th day of September 1975, over 30 years ago, have fallen silent, one by one, as their Maker beckons them on. A new generation has risen up to take their places. The baton has been passed on.
My contemporaries and I, slightly older than the nation itself, have lived through the triumphs and dismays. Our own progresses in life are testaments to what the nation is capable of achieving and the product of our own choices – decisions we made when we came to the fork in the road. We count ourselves as the generation that caught the glimpse of the past and stood the test of time to tell a story. We lived through the brief decadence of the 1980s and enlisted in colleges during the traumatic periods of the 1990s. Our parties did not last into the twilight hours. A new generation arrived on the scene – the generation X. They were reared under the deteriorating social undercurrents.
The progress of PNG can be summarized briefly in the following words. In 1970s, the buzzwords were independence and nationalization. I remember the days of live-bands rocking the nights in the villages of Simbu and my older compatriots succumbing to their emotions and losing their innocence. It was a brief moment of exuberance. In the 1980s, the buzzwords were mining projects. Terms such as joint venture, equity participation and royalties were bandied around. Other terms that become ubiquitous in our national lexicon were corruption, bribery and commission of inquiry. The Bougainville Crisis started towards the end of that decade and new terms were phrased: insurgency,
revolution and civil war. Unlike many nations around the world, PNG became independent without bloodshed but was spilling blood to maintain its sovereign integrity.
The terminologies in the 1990s were varied, highlighting the traumatic episodes onrushing upon PNG: structural adjustments, user-pay, currency devaluation, secession, Sandline mercenaries, military revolt, El Nino, Kina parity against US Dollar, dollar diplomacy, Orogen IPO, Cayman Island, Cairns Conservatory, leadership tribunal, NPF saga, pyramid money schemes, just to name a few. Two groups of people emerged during the 1990s – those who were traumatized by the upheavals and those that were shielded from them by the web of social support. In colleges, we found words to describe the former group. If you fell on the extreme fringes you were labeled “psycho” and those who ascended above the fringes were called “con-men”. These words have now become ubiquitous and entered the national dialect.
The first few years of the 21st century were phenomenal. Reforms to the political system and financial institutions were enacted. The iconoclastic changes instituted by the Mekere government saw the consignment of PNGBC and Orogen to the annals of history. The Chief came back to power and became the Grand Chief. This is the first time PNG had one government for a full parliamentary term. The economy has rebounded on the back of the bullish commodity prices from its doldrums in the 1990s. There is an element of confidence that is rising in the national psyche. The buzzwords now are privatization, good governance, MTDS, macroeconomic stability, green revolution (whatever that means!), fiscal responsibility, political stability, integrity laws on political parties, and the LPV.
Maintaining the status quo
In the year 2020, when we make it there, what will PNG be like? If we conduct our affairs on the “business-as-usual” attitude in the intervening years the following scenario will be presented to us.
The population will have reached over 7 million people. Of this, over a million people will have become infected with HIV and we will have already buried few hundred thousand AIDS victims, most of whom would be in their productive lives. The economic loss from these deaths will be significant. Presently, the rampaging scourge of HIV infections has gone unabated for far too long in spite of efforts to stem it. A brand new message is needed, immediately.
All the major mining and petroleum projects will have already wound up their operations. Much of their activities will be deployed around mine site rehabilitations. The mineral boom days of the 1980s will have gone bust by 2015. In the year 2020, PNG will have been already in the post-bust days. This will severely erode the government’s revenue base. The shock would be far worse than that of the 1990s when Bougainville Copper ceased operations due to insurgency.
The unsustainable social changes rummaging across the land like a hungry pig will have resulted in catastrophic internal strife. This will be exacerbated by the brutality of the gun
culture that is taking over the rule of law in towns and villages across PNG. Before the year 2020 PNG will have been half-ruled by gun-trotting warlords. Already, I have seen them becoming the law unto themselves in parts of the Highlands. This is the sure sign of a very bad omen falling upon the land! Before the year 2007 is over, SHP will be another Iraq and whatever remained of Mendi will make Baghdad look like a school yard playground. People affected by the gun riddled ethnic conflicts, often stemming from failed political processes, are already crowding into towns and cities. They are putting more pressure on the infrastructure that was built during the colonial days to cater for a small population and have become dilapidated over 30 years of neglect. This situation will be exacerbated in July 2007. If you think squatter settlements in Port Moresby are already getting out of control, be assured that you have not seen the worst of it yet. The nation will witness an explosion of internally displaced people.
With the government already running out of ideas to expand its revenue base (the ridiculous notion that concessions create impetus for growth is a fallacy), and the impending explosion in the population growth that is already outpacing real GDP growth, and the irreversibly adverse social changes, the nation is already sitting on a time-bomb. It will have exploded before the year 2020.
Unable to meet its obligations, and pressured by the growing population and the dwindling resources, the government will be forced to crawl on its hands and knees to the international donors. The country will go into a tailspin of borrow and spend modus operandi, plunging further and deeper into debt and shackled down forever. The current crop of leaders does not appreciate the immensity of the debt burden. In the last budget speech, debt was consigned as affordable and constituting about 48% of GDP. In actuality, debt in real Kina terms has not declined significantly. The decline was a reflection of the corresponding decline in dollar terms. The current government shifted the debt burden towards the domestic side. It currently holds the record for exploding the domestic debt from low of K200 million to over K2.0 billion in just three years. The government is borrowing and spending people’s current savings.
In the next few years, the commodity prices will head south. Even if the prices decline slowly, all the extractable resources will have already been depleted. This will dampen the mood in PNG. The government currently has exhausted its goodwill with the donor agencies and has already saturated the domestic debt market. It will be faced with two dire choices – declare PNG bankrupt or default on debt repayments. Either choice will have severe ramifications. Government defaulting on the domestic debt will be the powder keg exploding. People will lose their savings and will take to the streets. The NPF saga was the near-perfect simulated forerunner. Chaos will be the norm of the day. International communities will shun PNG and conducting business overseas will be reduced to personal contacts.
The unemployment rate will have risen to historically high levels. Students now in primary and high schools will be coming out of colleges with inks wet on their degrees and diplomas. They will join the queue for employment and some will turn to crimes as a way of life. Any semblance of human decency will be a luxury not many will afford.
Parents sending their children to school with the hope that these “investments” will repay in kind later will only be frustrated.
By the year 2015, the plebiscite on Bougainville’s Independence from PNG will have been successful by the tiniest margin of 50.001%. Bougainville will be independent from PNG and a new nation will have already joined the club of nations at the UN by the year 2020. The result will embolden the simmering hopes of independence by other provinces and regions. Balkanization (fragmentation) will have been already underway in PNG by 2020.
No government in the last 30 years has made any concerted efforts to realign the formal and non-formal sectors in order to tap into the productive capacities of the 85% of the people that are currently engaged in the informal economy. This segment of the population is not planned for when the Central Bank projects its annual targets for inflation and unemployment rates. It is a blemish against all governments.
Since independence, there have been no systematic efforts by successive governments to improve the physical linkages of the country. Majority of the provincial centers were connected only by air at independence and still are today. There are no major roads and highways linking the different regions and the existing ones are overtaken by bushes – a tragic demonstration of a country that has already lost its sense of direction. Telecommunication links have not improved since the 1980s in spite of expensive transfer and deployment of newer technologies. We are now a country that is isolated within. If we cannot improve the linkages in the last 30 years during the good times – the boom days – what do we expect to see in the post-bust days of the 2020?
The change
When we arrive at the year 2020, historians will look back and say that the year 2007 was a watershed in PNG’s history. The people of PNG took their destiny and that of their children into their own hands and cast the lot for a momentous shift away from the status quo. The time for mediocrity, personality cult, and business-as-usual had ended in 2007. A new era was ushered in.
The buzzwords that characterize the post-2007 PNG must include the following: Information Technology (IT) and Biotechnology (BT), political stability and political will, economic growth and prosperity, and a new social order. Importantly, it will require political will to create these buzzwords and in a very tangible way. There is no magic formula. The power to create the future is in the hands of the people. They will decide what type of future they create for themselves and their children. The time for political experiment over the last 30 years is over. The year 2007 marks the turning point.
The world today is driven increasingly by Information Technology. Those who learn to create and manage the associated technologies are deciding how businesses are conducted, how countries are governed and how wealth is created. Fifty years ago, a drug-riddled and corrupt government was running Taiwain. In 1975, at the time PNG became independent, that country enforced rigorous university entrance examinations and
placed emphasis on science education. Thirty years later it is one of the world’s leading exporters of IT-related products and in the process became one of the most prosperous nations. In the 1960s, Singapore was the backwaters of Malaysia, the poorest state located on the Malay Peninsula. When it became independent in August 1965, it was not considered to be a viable country. Even the Sydney Morning Herald wrote in August 1965 that “an independent Singapore was not regarded as [a] viable [country]…” That country faced immediate mass unemployment, housing shortages, lack of lands and natural resources. It turned all that around to become the world’s city enjoying the highest standard of living in the world. The magic was a progressive leadership that placed more emphasis on education and focused investments on IT-related areas. Recently, the Singapore government invested heavily in biotechnology and medical care. By the year 2020, it will become the regional hub of top-notch medical care available to those that can afford them. Malaysia is catching up now. The Mahathir government has invested in telecommunications, infrastructure and cyber cities and has had some successes. The former PM Dr Mahathir visited PNG for the second time, exactly 30 years after PNG’s independence. It was his last overseas trip as PM and he returned with dissatisfaction after seeing the disparity between how far Malaysia had progressed and how further PNG had regressed within the same time period.
In the 1960s, the wealthiest companies and individuals were industrialists. In 1990s, the wealthiest companies and persons were those involved in the service industry. By the year 2000, the top three wealthiest persons in the world were selling software and other IT products.
Biotechnology is an emerging field. Great strides have been made in this field in the last two decades. There are more opportunities for growth. We have yet to see the best of it yet. Students studying in these areas will come out and create the next generation of wealth. In fact, they will be the next billionaires the world will create.
There is an emerging aphorism: English is the lingua franca of the business world and it has 26 letters of the alphabet. How you combine and construct these letters derives different meanings. The language of the IT is derived from two numeric codes – zeros and ones – and how these binary digits are arranged gives a powerful translation and drives much of what we do today. The language of BT is derived from the four letters of the genetic code – A, T, G and C. How we compose and construct these letters will determine how the world will be run in the year 2020 and beyond. If we invest in this field now, in the year 2020 we will be amongst those who are leading the rest of the world. The Australian state of Queensland is the fastest growing state in that country because it has a progressive government that expanded its investments in BT. It is the only state where new agricultural crops can be tested in Australia. In recognition of the new opportunities available to them, the voters returned the government of Premier Peter Beatie in the recent elections with an overwhelming majority. That State is now posed to take on the world with cutting edge science in the BT sector.
In the last 30 years PNG has focused more on the mediocre political horse-trading in parliament and in the process, we wasted our time, resources and losing our focus and
direction on national strategies. PNG now needs political will to address the serious issues and to refocus our efforts into areas of growth and future opportunities for the nation. PNG has drifted aimlessly through the IT-era and into the BT-era. There are few people in PNG who can speak the IT and BT languages. Knowledge is power but it is the application of this knowledge that is much, much more powerful. It is a great pity, a travesty of the national sovereignty, that not many politicians and department heads in PNG appreciate the power of IT, as demonstrated by their lack of knowledge in basic end-user applications such as sending and receiving e-mails. In fact, I suggest that this should be one of the demarcating features for the people of PNG to break with the past and embrace the future.
Science education in PNG must take a directed approach. Emphasis should be placed on the IT and BT-related areas. New generation of workers must arrive on the scene in the year 2020 with skills and knowledge in IT and BT to propel this country beyond the 21st century. PNG can go into BT with a solid foundation. We have the abundant biodiversity and we now have the critical mass of expertise that can do the work. What is lacking is the political will to take it to the next level and make it happen.
Over 35,000 years ago, PNG was the first place in the world to start the agricultural civilization. This happened when Europe and the rest of the world were still hunting and gathering. Reporting in the July 2003 issue of the international journal Science, archaeologist and scientist unearthed evidence that Kuk Valley in WHP was where agriculture started. Over the intervening years, we lost that civilization and eventually were colonized. If our politicians are serious then we can invest in BT and regain that position as a hub of innovation in the BT field.

About the author
The authors lives and works in the USA. He holds three international patents for his inventions and discoveries in the areas of Biotechnology.



May 11 2007, 1:11 PM 

what's all this garbage when he already let down those who have trust in him


Re: Garbage!

May 11 2007, 1:46 PM 

Ok, SAP is late and there was a problem. Dr. C.W was offloaded on his way back because of travel desruptions. His officials are totally useless people. They conned people, gave them false hopes etc...because there are like hundreds SAP officials running around the country.
Dr. Clement can't control that and he is here to patch that problem as well. Some of this offcials just boarded the ship because they thought that Clement is going to pour millions intheir purse or bank account. Em gutpela na em wokim las minute, bikos, ol still lain bai less na lusim em igo.

Also people anticipated the way people loaded them onto cars and trucks and go and nominate. Another wasted money and resources for such things of little economic output.

Unfortunate that this has happened, but SAP is going to form the next Goverment. We still believe that SAP will do it...even ifyou Simbu's won't get him in...SAP supporters are with this man...Good to go, GO SAP


Re: Garbage!

May 11 2007, 1:57 PM 

how can they form the next govt while they already can't get in..stop dreaming


Re: Garbage!

May 11 2007, 2:49 PM 

Can't get in, you mean he can't get into PNG. When you travel from LA to Sydney and Brisbane and than get offloaded, just when yuo are about to board the plane? THe reason was because some AIrline OCmpany got stuffed up. Sorry, the Name is registered and Doctor Clement waine will blaze trail this Campaign..watch out for him. Check Nationals today. Toksave. Noken belhat long mi, Mi kaukau man long ples.


Re: Garbage!

May 11 2007, 4:22 PM 

Is offloading a new animal to PNG? Did this new problem just start to occur?

Someone who doesn't even have a backup plan for something as simple to avoid as offloading (solution- leave early) is surely going to have even bigger problems down the line.

The more I read of this guy's writings the more I think that he has been living on Planet Jupiter for some years.


Re: Waine sees PNG in year 2020

May 11 2007, 3:27 PM 

I suggest that the author consider returning back to PNG to live and work for awhile, maybe a few years. Then let him write again about what is logical and doable for PNG's future. Smelling the frangipani flowers for awhile tends to bring some magical change inside the brain that results in more sensible ideas.

jane doe

Wake up and smell the coffee

May 11 2007, 4:10 PM 


Living in PNG has little to do with 'logic' and knowing what's right for the country, look at us. We see little logic at parliament house and grudging acceptance of the fantastic 'possibilities' that exist.

In fact I would argue that living in PNG prompts us to move towards the illogical and irrational. We are like an abused woman, we have copped it for so long some of us actually prefer to stay with the current government and accept the abuse because we no longer feel worthy of being treated with dignity as intelligent, capable human beings with unlimited potential.

PNG as a nation needs therapy.

Wake up and smell the coffee, think outside the box and start becoming proactive in the process, an agent for positive change rather than the simply accepting the status quo as scathing couch critics.

Never allow anyone to tell you that your potential is limited and that they decide what is possible, realistic and doable for you. Never give them permission to make you feel inferior.

I watched a movie recently "Happyness" the father taught his son a most important lesson "People who tell you can't do things, usually only tell you this because they can't do it or are too scared to do it themselves".

Martin Luthur King, Gandhi, Mohammed Ali etc. all gave the critics and doubters the finger and chased their dream. Many times they heard "oh come on now be realistic" or "It won't happen, its too far fetched, you're crazy" or "who do you think you are, you think you can come here and upset the status quo".

They faced obstacles and got knocked down by their own and others, but they picked themselves up and kept going. The one I admire the most Gandhi, lived and worked for many years outside of India before returning to become a powerful agent for positive change.

I for one fully support 100% any PNGean who chases their dreams and goals. Without dreams and goals life is not worth living.

Time invested in improving yourself cuts down on time wasted in disapproving of others.


Re: Wake up and smell the coffee

May 11 2007, 4:27 PM 

mi tuya mi sawe les lo ol lain mauswara nating. Broaden your minds, step away from your computers, get off your asses and do something about it instead of whining, whinging and pointing fingers like a bunch of 4 year olds.

Support your fellow PNGeans who are striving for a positive change.


Dr Waine & Gandhi

May 11 2007, 4:36 PM 

The difference that I see is that the people you mention were great communicators. This Dr Waine seems to be a great academic writer but is a poor communicator unlike Gandhi etc.

Dr Waine is a leader of the elite, that much is very clear. Gandhi etc etc were exactly the opposite kinds of leaders.

jane doe

Re: Dr Waine & Gandhi

May 11 2007, 4:55 PM 

Anonymous, I have met Dr Waine during uni days in Brisbane on 2 occasions, before his professional accomplishments, I remember him as being polite, humble and laid back. I don't know him personally and have not witnessed him publically speaking to his electorate so I can't say what kind of communicator he is on the 'village level'.

I am not comparing him per se to Gandhi. I am saying we build the walls in which our minds operate. Gandhi etc are just examples of individuals who operated outside these walls, always challenged the status quo especially when it was so obviously unfair and indecent.

I am saying 'give the man a break, give him the opportunity then judge him on his political accomplishments. I just feel to tear him down when he hasn't done any damage to PNG's reputation or economy is cruel and unkind.

Judge people on their proven track record, how they treat themselves, their families, their local community, fellow countrymen and waiters. Anyone who is rude to a waiter is never a nice person - ever.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 11 2007, 4:19 PM 

I think this absence, more than anything, demonstrates a serious lack of commitment on the part of the supposed candidate.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 11 2007, 5:07 PM 

why make loud noise at the first place?


serious lack of commitment

May 11 2007, 5:35 PM 

yumi tuya. like we know what commitment means, most of us have trouble seriously committing to getting out of bed every morning let alone commiting to one woman/man, one beer or one hour at the poker machines.

My latest 'serious commitment' was to never buy a blue car again, the scratches are to easy to see.

Who in here has ever had a 'serious commitment' to ridding PNG of its corrupt politicians? Lets tell it like it is.

Not me, I sit in my comfortable chair and type away my frustrations, attacking and withdrawing, I feel I am privy to all the facts and information and therefore am qualified to make a judgment.

No, if we were serious about getting rid of corrupt government officers we would have done it by now, collectively as a community.

Obviously, we haven't had enough. If we did we would be working together towards a solution instead of turning our hostilities and fears on each other.


Re: serious lack of commitment

May 11 2007, 7:03 PM 

You're right, very right. You're right that hardly anyone in PNG actually really cares about corruption because the destruction it is doing to PNG we can't actually see the direct impact on our lives. Also Dr Waine doesn't actually have to show up if he still has a comfy job back in the USA that he can go back to. Why make a big effort in such a situation I certainly wouldn't.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 11 2007, 6:47 PM 

But then again, we too must not forget easily. Ours is the land of the unexpected with happenings that boggle the mind. Such like:

Rapists, thieves, liers, ... have now nominated to be leaders. The insanity is that they will score some votes too! And that's PNG!


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 1:16 AM 

First hand information is that Clement has nominated in absentia. There's nothing illegal about that. I was delighted to know and I hope my folks in Simbu vote for him. Simbu & PNG need this brilliant Papua New Guinean more than some of you people know. Here is a man who has broken new grounds internationally - who else do you people want to lead PNG into economic growth and success. Who else can deliver PNG into a nation of prosperity. PNG needs Clement.

Em tasol

The Observer (NO to leader in Absentia)

Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 2:17 AM 

he country does not need someone who is going to be a leader in absentia...

He publicized his intention to contest the national election long ago. He publicized his policies. He formed his political party. And his faithful supporters waited for him in Simbu so he can lead them to nominate his candidacy. And to their dismay he does not show up to nominate. He gives no reason for his absence. He does not apologize to his people.

The dates for the issuing of writs, the close of nominations, date of voting, are all very IMPORTANT dates. These are dates that a widely published, even in the National Gazette. If this highly learned individual can not plan ahead and get his acts together so he can be with his people and show the nation he is ready lead, then he DOES NOT HAVE what it takes to be a national leader. He is a shamble in the eyes of his people.

He can be a superdupa ph.d. holder in a very small narrow scientific field BUT providing leadership to a people and a nation is a totally different ball game. He has just demonstrated that he does not have what it takes to be a leader. He will definitely be defeated in the elections.

The country does not need someone who is going to be a leader in absentia...

Yuai 20t Karamap

Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 8:35 AM 

The Observer...you just hit the nail with the hammer...its all clear...STOP DREAMING ON PEOPLE...commom!!..get off you chairs and look out of the window...Simbus have waited out in the sun...keeping their eyes on the next plane that landed in town and every tinted vechicle that passes by just to see if Clement is in town..even to the last miniute of the writs...some serious supporters and SAP canidates havent eaten the last few days...??????? so now you work that out..you think Simbus still consider Clement...No way!!...maybe he is lost with which formulars to you so I'll give him one...not that scientific - Politics = People x Time....


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 10:33 AM 

If you make a decision to serve the people, do so by all means at all cost. Being around with the people is the main thing. We do not need superficial aliens.

He has let us all down.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 11:06 AM 

Wait a minute tell us how he has personally let you down?

Has he stolen millions from the public purse?

Has he sold out our resources to foreigners?

Has he ignored certain sectors of his electorate because they didn't vote for him?

You are showing the same petty ignorance that Somare has shown to the Wosera people in his electorate. This type of behaviour belongs in the primary school playground.

So, he was offloaded and had to nominate in absentia - big deal. Has he broken any laws?

Dry your eyes princess.

The way you sooky lalas carry on, anyone would think he had raped your woman. Keep it in perspective people.

aaaiiooo I can't believe how judgmental and self righteous people can be. Who died and made you judge, jury and executioner?


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 11:19 AM 

If anyone's overreacting, you would be a prime nominee for the honour!


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 12:35 PM 

I don't give you permission to pass judgement on me by labelling me a "overreactor". Stap isi, mi wanbel.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 11:38 AM 

If what you have said (quoted below) is true, it is very clear to me that our Simbu brothers and sisters need to GET A LIFE! :-)

"Simbus have waited out in the sun...keeping their eyes on the next plane that landed in town and every tinted vechicle that passes by just to see if Clement is in town..even to the last miniute of the writs...some serious supporters and SAP canidates havent eaten the last few days.."


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 12:29 PM 

Sun kukim mipela long Dickson Oval ya olsem wanem?

Wara Mini Market


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 12:57 PM 

mmmm.... he did get offloaded and he did inform the officials exactly what was going. How do you think he got nominated in absentia? As for apologising, give him a chance to get to Simbu first to apologise in person.

Let his electorate decide whether he is a 'shambles' in their eyes or a Simbu and human with faults like themselves.

Observer, by your standards if his plane was blown up he would be at fault for not taking possible terrorist attacks into consideration.

You have such narrow standards for what is acceptable as a leader, I find it strange that your opinion of what makes a good leader is based on a failure to predict being offloaded. Each to their own I guess.

On those standards alone, I could stand for elections as I am in the 30% of travellers who have never had any delays or issues with my travel plans.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 2:11 PM 

Celement's supporters are bunch of clowns. Go and plant your kaukau and live your life. Celement has a family to support by making more money in the US. Why waste time waiting for him? Get real, PNG does not need him. What the country needs is not an honest individual, but a honest, civilized population from which one day emerge honest 109 members ready to serve the people. We do have educated and honest leaders but everytime we throw them into parliament they gets 'eaten' by others. The dishonestly of our politicians reflects the character of the population. Let me give an example. If you have 100 marbles, 25 blue and 75 red, ....the chances of randomly picking a red one is 75%. If red represents corrupt/dishonestly individuals then what chances do we have in electing honest leaders?


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 2:22 PM 

Honesty cannot be bought off. you are dead wrong. Don't make excuses for the pollies that are corrupt, you are justifying their behaviour. They were never honest to begin with. If they had the moral fortitude to begin with no amount of money or coercion would buy off their honesty.

You seriously think that the majority of PNG's population is dishonest. What research have you done to prove this claim?

Your argument fails to convince me.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 2:12 PM 

One of the reasons why we are in the state we are in, we don't concern ourselves with the bigger picture, about the real issues or the real culprits in government. God help CW if his sh*t stinks, he definitely won't be considered leader material by some people here.

CW is in a lose/lose situation, damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I am all for change, I embrace it and I'm open to new ideas and challenges.

I understand that academic writing is far removed from everyday communication. I don't discuss issues with friends and relatives in the same manner that I write academic papers. Academic papers are a very formal means of communication, designed for scrutiny and assessment. Rigid rules are applied to academic writing and research articles.

You adjust to your audience, differ your stance, tone, delivery style and language to suit businessmen or rural villagers etc. I think CW is intelligent enough to understand that.

We expose our own inner weaknesses with emotive personal attacks.

Reasonable, well researched, structured and thought out arguments should be our aim.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 2:20 PM 

If you think Dr Waine can adjust, I guess my first question would be why didn't he adjust in order to write political strategies that were meant for general public consumption. It's a little late now, he's established himself (perhaps wrongly) with the perception that he is out of touch with the realities of PNG, creating the humourous illusion of a white coated chemist thrown into a typical remote Simbu village and shaking his head in puzzleement as ragged clothed people ask whether he's going to buy them all bean hullers if he gets elected.

In any case, what people say on the internet behind their shields is exactly what people say in everyday life behind people's backs. Rather than bemoan that reality, wise people (Dr Waine is certainly smart, but I'm not sure that he is wise) would harness to their advantage, either by engaging in debate (as Donna and even Carol Kidu has done) and sharpening their abilities to reply to criticism in a classy way, or they could quietly listen into the internet, to learn what weaknesses they're presenting to the world, learning from that, and changing as a result (better late than never). Perhaps that is what Dr Waine is doing as one can only hope........


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 2:36 PM 

Mate if responded to every criticism we ever received we would be exhausted and we are not pollies. Donna and Carol are responding to a minute portion of the population who have access to the internet. Imagine if half the population had internet access.

In most democratic countries would be politicians are too busy to surf the web and conduct one to one counselling and answer sessions. They are pounding the pavement, away from their computers, out of their offices, meeting with and listening to their consitiuents.

Don't inflate our self-importance just because we are privileged enough to communicate with them over the internet - 80% of the population doesn't have access to it.


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 2:45 PM 

The posting's (and the thread's) subject is Dr Waine and his supporters, and their poor utilisation of pngscape and the internet. Dr Wain'es supporters seem to complain constantly that people are allowed to complain constantly about Dr Waine on the internet, when in fact, anything you see on the internet is no different than what's being said behind Dr Waine's (or other people's) backs. That's what the internet always will be, a place where public personalities can get a viewing window into what's being said but not to their face.

Rather than Dr Waine's supporters complaining and acting like they expect protection from criticism on the internet maybe they should accept how things are on the internet, and harness to their advantage.

One puzzle: Why does Dr Waine have supporters here but not one of his supporters actually signs their name? Are they that ashamed (or frightened? or ?) to show themselves as supporters of Dr Waine?


Re: Waine's Supporters and Candidates Disappointed

May 12 2007, 3:05 PM 

Who are you speaking for - the minority who have access to the internet.

You certainly are not speaking for the Simbus, there are very few here in Simbu who are speaking against him. Some are - not many though. CW does not require the services of the internet right now because 99.99% of his electorate does not have access to it.

He does not need to answer to anyone who is not in his electorate, if he gets elected he is our servant, a servant of the Simbu public. Bihain sapos em Minister or PM inap you can drill him but don't be alarmed if he doesn't give you the answers you want to hear like every other pollie wannabe. He does not gloss over the situation just to get you off his back.

As for his supporters naming themselves - it's up to them, laik bilong wan wan, it's a free country. The same could be asked of you - why don't you sign your name.



May 12 2007, 3:18 PM 

Dr Waine apparently used to be on the internet discussion forums all the time, he should have used those opportunities to refine his 'reality' thinking cap before he went out into the wide wide world with these crazy academic political party position papers.

What you say is right about the people of Simbu themselves, however, which is why I don't understand why Dr Waine's supporters are getting so worked up about things here. They get worked up, then threads get deleted and warnings are issued. It all seems a bit funny considring.......

Ki-boda Nem

Re: realities

May 12 2007, 3:51 PM 

Ok, Enough is said about Dr. Clement Waine. He is already unorganised and there is no way he is going to contest the Simbu Regional and win so plis olgeta man na meri, noken toktok long clement Waine. Em America man, ino PNG na yupela toktok plenti. Just end this tread about Cr. Clement Waine, because he is just one of those wanna-be saviours of PNG. Just let him be happy in the Chemistry department. I think he is a chmapion there.

For those who are dissappointed. Sorry, the mentality of Simbu's is that they wanted the Dr. to come to town and people just wanted to see the glamour, the pride and the awe of such parades that goes into that little Kundiawa colonial town. I think Dr. Clement Waine did a descent thing by not coming to town like that...just another waste of money and Kakaruk, Pik, lambflaps etc.. car hire, inviting people to go and show off in town...yupela, em wanem kain now yah.Dr. Clement Waine is no Saviour and he is not carrying your money in his wallet. Just stop this crap about Dr. Clement waine here.

He is not contesting the SImbu Regional and that is where it ends..Period!!!


Re: realities

May 12 2007, 4:27 PM 

Ki boda-nem crawl back into your hole and come back when you have fully evolved - you have no constructive input to make.


Re: realities

May 12 2007, 4:35 PM 

Anon, can you give some constructive input..I am already a butterfly, can't shrink back into a cucoon. I have already said, mine. Dr. Clement Waine is not contesting Simbu Regional. If you have some facts, otherwise, tok idai

Ki-boda Nem

Re: realities

May 12 2007, 4:48 PM 

ANon! Gutpela man, yu bagarapim me yah. Em orait, wanbel istap!

Dr. Clement Waine em ino inap long contest long Election. Em tok pilai tasol. Yu laik harim wanem! Sopos yu laik em bai contest arait you salim e-mail long em yet. Ask him, ring the SAP office. If you try the bunch of his tale bearers, they probably will give you a significant date...they love em' dates. There are dozens around the country. I rang em several times and from what I heard from the other end, they are like little kinda garden kids in la la la...la Land.


Anything on this board about Waine's plans true?

May 12 2007, 5:08 PM 

At this point I don't know if anything here is true about Dr Waine's plans to contest, either pro or con. One side is lying big time, that's for sure and I hope for Dr Waine's sake, that it's not the C Waine supporters.



May 12 2007, 4:31 PM 

Dr Clement Waine has nominated in absentia. That's all PNG needs to know. I am certain he is now ready for the long hard road of election campaign. But knowing him, the man will prevail - nothing has ever been impossible for this exceptionally gifted man to achieve. He has conquered the world of science and he is a lateral thinker (the kind of upwardly mobile person that PNG desperately needs). Noone and I mean noone should overlook the fact that here is a man in his hay days willing to sacrifice his successful international career and to serve his beloved nation. I really hope that the people of Simbu give him the mandate to become an MP. The country needs him.



May 12 2007, 4:35 PM 

It isn't surprising that Dr Waine has anonymous critics but it is remarkable that none of his supporters dare give their names. Including you!



May 12 2007, 4:45 PM 

Something to do with freedom of choice and the right to anonymity.


Re: realities

May 12 2007, 4:19 PM 

Realities, don't fool yourself, we the minority do not reflect any villagers 'reality', we are not living as they do. We have no idea how they live day after day year after year. We go to the village on holidays and return to our comfortable lives.

If as 'anonymous' suggested 99.99% of Simbus cannot access the internet then his 'supporters' on this site are living in other parts of PNG or overseas and therefore making your argument irrelevant.

Are you sure you are not labelling everyone who disagrees with you or who has tried to inject some moderation into the debate as a CW supporter. I have read through the thread and there were less that 5 people who fully supported CW. Most were cautious, some were saying give him an opportunity or were undecided which doesn't exactly mean 'supporter'.

jane doe

Re: realities

May 12 2007, 5:13 PM 

After reading todays additions to the thread it's obvious I and maybe some of you need to take a pill and lie down, maybe till after the elections.

May the best man/woman win.

Yuai 20t Karamap

Re: realities

May 12 2007, 5:24 PM 

where are you all netting in with all the ****s here...people cut thoes carp!! CW is not here in town to contest...nominated in absentia and ...polling in absentia??...Cannot see his poster up the walls of TNA supermarket....if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are thinking right now...enough now na talk real kids


"if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 5:26 PM 

"if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are thinking right now"

Where you there? If so, why aren't yu giving us any details?

Sounds like you're lying.


Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 7:18 PM 

Em giaman. mi stap lo Kundiawa, CW stap nau mi lukim em lo ai bilong mi.

Most Simbus support Dr Waine and some are against him. Even the ones against him pursuing a political career, admire his professional and academic achievements.

Inap nau. It doesn't matter if he wins or not, he has accomplished a lot at a young age - not many gain a PHD at age 30 (UQ).

He has nothing to prove to anyone.

Mondia Pass

Dr. Clement Waine Win's or loose, Does it matter?

May 12 2007, 7:35 PM 

Hi folks. In this Forum, some scapers feel that they owe Dr. Waine something, even if he decides that he does not need to contest. I do not think, any of you on this scape ever contributed one single toea to his education, neither have I, and he is trying just like everyone else to make a change, inspire someone in this Country and in the process may have dissappointed someone.

If Candidates and supporters of SAP are angry or upset, than I think this person, being such a gentleman will surely show up and apologise to his people. He is confirmed to contest the Simbu Regional and he is coming, unless his heart stops! I do not dream either, but I choose to believe in him, and therefore optimistic about what Dr. Clement Waine said....after all, we all in PNG wish and wanted to believe in someone. I do not think Dr. Waine is the messaiah of PNG of some sort, but he is just human after all, so give him a break and let him exercise his God given freedom and Democracy.


Re: Dr. Clement Waine Win's or loose, Does it matter?

May 12 2007, 7:37 PM 

Yes indeed. We all have, as you say, a God given freedom. Even the God given freedom to completely screw up and humiliate ourselves!!!!!

Mondia Pass

Re: Dr. Clement Waine Win's or loose, Does it matter?

May 12 2007, 7:45 PM 

Anon! who is ourselves? If you are dissappointed, that is fine, for the last 30 donkey years, we all have been dissappointed. If you should be angry at Waine, I think you should be asking your previous MP that you gave him the mandate to represent you in Parliament. After all, Waine can't answer that for you.


One of the funniest threads

May 12 2007, 7:52 PM 

Who is angry at Waine? This whole thread is making me laugh.


Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 7:43 PM 

Maybe not too many of us Papua New Guineans get a PHD at age 30 but I've just asked a friend who knows these things and he says that it is common, even typical in Australia for people to get PHDs at age 30 or even younger.

Again let's not embarrass ourselves before the world by stating remarkable achievements that anywhere but PNG aren't remarkable at all.

It makes us look naive.

aussie observer

Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 7:54 PM 

Yes however, Australians have been receiving an education for over a century.

Two generations ago Papua New Guineans were in the stone age, that is what makes his and other high achievers from PNG outstanding. This persons grandparents could not read/write (maybe even his parents) and lived a isolated remote life.

I'm amazed you don't find it remarkable, I do.

How convenient for you that you have a friend who knows these things and can confirm this in the past 5 minutes.

Kembil Bang

If you find any PNG Politicians in Australia

May 12 2007, 7:55 PM 

If you find any of them in Australia

They're in Australia to spend the people's stolen and misappropriated money, and anyway they're supposed to be in the villages or their electorates 'developing' their underdeveloped areas.

If anyone of you in Australia spots these thieves all you have to do is find a gun and blow their heads off. If you can't then you pass the hat around collect enough money and pay a druggie to find a sawn-off shot gun, point the gun at this thieving politician's head, simply press the trigger and blow his f..kin brains right out of his head and to smithereens.

I assure you a beautiful feeling of nirvana will sweep over and when it is over you will be happy knowing you have done a good thing for PNG by ridding the country of another louse.


Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 7:58 PM 

Sitting in the next room to me, pal. Visiting from an Aussie uni. That's how he knows.

Common Sense

Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 8:02 PM 

Not even 20 years ago we had 2 universities where people from around the Pacific were enrolling, because they had such a good reputation.

Now hardly anyone outside of PNG wants to go to a PNG university. We may have been in the stone age a few years ago, but the achivements of a tiny percentage of our population isn't keeping our country from retreating back to the stone age. And isn't this happening because we're holding up 1, 2 or 3 individuals who successfully studied overseas and ignoring that the entire ship of educational excellence in PNG has been sinking? What's the point of waving to the captain at the top of the boat when the water is rising past your neck?

Clement Waine is worried about science education. Let's instead start worrying about whether many of our rural people will even have the opportunity to learn how to read and write in another 10 years.

Wara Simbu Tadpole

Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 8:13 PM 

Sori-ol SAP Supporters, yupela kalap, kalap istap, nau kaikai dust. wasman lusim yupela na olgeta disaipel ronowe nambaut...Why na!!!

bush school principal

Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 8:15 PM 

Thank you for the nice comments aussie observer friend.

\We can't compare the two countries. Australians have received free university education up until the 1970's, they have had hundreds of years of 'civilisation' and 'modernisation' and many educated generations have passed.

Australian students receive continual funding and excellent facilities and maintence of these facilites from pre-school through to University. Education is free up to University in Australia. There is never a shortage of water, clean toilets, textbooks, chalk, desks, exercise books, stationary and the list goes on. I don't begrudge them, that is result of a century of good governance.

Our education system is decaying. Skul i bagarap nogut turu. Thousands of children as young as 6 walk kilometres through the bush, unkempt pathways and potholed roads to get to school, leaving their homes at 6 or 7 in the morning to make it in time for classes to the nearest school which has the bare necessities to get by. At the end of the day the students make the same trek home.

PNG parents beg and borrow to pay their way through school, high school, National High and University.


Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 8:24 PM 

You said it. The parents struggle, the kids and teachers do with piss poor resources, and how many of them actually come out of the education system today armed with any of the skills that would help them in their lives? They can't read properly, they can't solve a maths problem that requires any reasoning, it's horrible.

Yet we ignore this tragedy and spend all our efforts loooking at a few of us who were fortunate indeed to rise high up in education. But that number isn't going to grow percentage wise and having such a tiny percentage so many years after independence with higher education means that PNG is never going to develop. You can't have a developed country with so few people able to read and write properly.

To be frank, that's what is annoying about people like Clement Waine type biotech, science centre and similar nonsense ideas. Maybe they'll be appropriate in 50 years but we're far away from that moment in time the way everything stands now.


Re: "if you have been in Kundiawa last week then you should have some idea of what people are

May 12 2007, 9:03 PM 

Mate at this stage PNG is all that matters, why because our leaders are turning our country into living hell, open to the highest bidder, who gives a f**ck what Aussies and other foreigners are doing in their countries. Worry about what foreigners are doing to PNG. Why are you comparing us with the rest of the world. We are concerned with cleaning our backyard first.

I think you must be suffering from 'the green eyed monster' syndrome. You are the naive one.


Give Dr. Waine a Go!

May 13 2007, 2:31 PM 

While reading through this thread, one can see that much of the discussions have been focused on the hi-tech visions put forward by Dr CW on the policies of SAP. Comments by scapers differ, depending on their degree of understanding, intelligence and their ability to look beyond the confines of their defined world. Other critics of SAP blame Dr CW of the failures of successive governments in this country and consider his policies a hogwash and unrealistic, while other comments are baseless and contribute nothing to the general discussion.

It should be realized by all thinking scapers and the people of PNG that all big things start from a humble begining, big discoveries and conglomerates start from a little dream and it is not a mistake or unrealistic to start a little dream for PNG. Where there is a will, there is a way and that comes with commitment and perseverence. That is the way Dr. CW has approached the issue to get PNG on the road to recovery and prosperity.

It is a God given right to have an opinion on how things should be done, especially in the context of getting PNG out of its current economic woes to the next level of economic success, hence the development of PNG. It is therefore important that the individual opinions are respected and their justifications noted. These opinions are expressed by individuals and reflect their IQ, their upbringing, the societies they represent and a wide range of other factors.

While the rest (the majority) of PNG have high regard for this achiever, the few scapers on this site ought to contact him using the link on SAP website to get detailed insight into his policies, and the reasons and justifications for what he stands for.

Finally, let the man have a go at the position of the CEO of this country if he wants to as he has alot to offer. If he can abandone his job in the US which pays him 5-6 times more than what PNG offers to its CEO, it shows this young man has a vision for PNG and probably has something to offer.

We the citizens of PNG kindly request the good people of Simbu to give this young man your mandate and send him in to realise his dreams to get this country on the road to recovery. Please do the right thing.....Give Dr C Waine a go!

Ikam long han bilong yupela ol Simbu long givim tok orait na salim ikam long mipela PNG.


Re: Give Dr. Waine a Go!

May 13 2007, 8:46 PM 

Wanbel long tok bilony you tasol, for him not to be present at that Nomination in Kundiawa could mean losing a few thousand votes. His officials who are rather unqualified and unskilled workforce can chase away a few thousands, and his unquestionable absense for the remainder of this weeks, means that he will loose a few more thousands.

Before we can talk about all the dreams of a person, he needs to win an election before one can talk about PM....sorry, PNG majority of the rural population will be never moved by several hundred pages of policies.

Wish CW the best of luck in Simbu Regional.


Re: Give Dr. Waine a Go!

May 13 2007, 8:56 PM 

Your comments well appreciated brada.

How wonderful it would be if all PNG intellectuals put their heads together with CW and make a revolutionary change for PNG. Clement alone cannot achieve that. He needs the support of all right thinking individuals.

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