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FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007 at 10:37 AM

Just wondered, why the forum on SAP was removed.

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Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 11:22 AM 

Because of the (New)Guinea pig issue........

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Ki-boda Nem

Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 11:35 AM 

Just wondered if any my postings was the reasons why SAP forum was removed??? thats all. and wondered why also????

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Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 1:35 PM 

The issue was to generate intelligent public (especially people who access this site) discussion on how the political party policies of the 34+ political parties in PNG could go towards addressing the developmental needs of PNG. It was to compare the publicly accessible policies by SAP to that of other long time established political parties in PNG.

I guess the reason why it was taken off is because people deviated from the issue. Ki-Boda Nem rightly says some of his comments may have contributed to the forum taken off.

The sarcastic comments from bush scientist and the political chemist may also contributed to that.

Bikpela sore long pea sized brain bilong yupela.

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Ki-boda Nem

Re: FORUM on SAP was removed? Why

May 4 2007, 1:48 PM 

Wabson, Here is K-boda Nem. SAP policies were unique, Could you elaborate for the Public in this Forum to know what is new under the sun? I think its a re-invention of the old Policies, just changed from caterpillar to Butterfly.
Its one thing to color the pages of the webs and books about a Policy but its a another thing to run an election, win an election. AGain, one could be a Champion in his field of Bio Technology, but that does not mean that he will run the Country as a Prime Minister....Any new Policies which "ol Kundiawa Gembogle mas save long em"

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Biotechnology centres and other dreamtime concoctions

May 4 2007, 3:08 PM 

Everything I can see is that the party and its peoples are far too elitist for PNG the way the country is right now. Do you people have any idea what the average literacy rate and command of English is? If any of these SAP members have the common touch with the people, why isn't this reflected on the web site?

It's not the English that shows the greatest distance to the people on the ground, it's the entire approach and policy. Does Dr Waine and his supporters have any concept of the way the average Papua New Guinean lives? What their problems are? Their aspirations? I'm not talking about the aspirations of the conmen who are the first to run up to any candidate. I'm talking about the women in the village, particularly, since they make up probably a bit over half of our nation's people. What are their aspirations? I seriously doubt if it is a biotechnology centre.

I'm sure Dr Waine is honest and committed but this has to be the strongest example I've ever seen of Papua New Guineans who have high formal education ending up with a political approach that is simply irrelevant to the people whose votes they are seeking.

A biotechnology centre for PNG? I reckon it is a reflection of how unrealistic this entire SAP approach is to PNG. On the other hand, if it's used as a cargo lolly to attract the people to vote, maybe SAP is more realistic than I thought.

Does anyone know the answer to the reason in back of the biotechnology centre idea?

Dreams are great but they have to be realistic otherwise they're a waste of time thinking up.

Everyone remember these words because I speak the absolute truth: There will never, ever be a biotechnology centre in Papua New Guinea.

Full stop.

End of statement.

The reality of the world.

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Time for Reality

May 4 2007, 4:41 PM 

According to a UN sanctioned report on the biological diversity of PNG in 1995, this island that we call home is a host to over thousands of plants, animals, micro-organisms etc which further contain some of the unique chemical compounds, including their genetic information that have many applications in medicine, agriculture, cosmetics and self care products. Now, if I were to go through the details of how these wealth of scientific knowledge ends up in foreign labs where they are patented and developed, the monetary value of the discoveries which originally belongs to you and I, the value far exceeds what the gold, copper, nickel and all the non-renewable resources contribute to the GDP of this country. (Remember, we can boast about our ownership of land and claim to own the gold and mineral resources but do we get the value for our resources???)

We in the scientific community have long been pushing for the establishment of such a center (Biotechnology) to tap into our natural resources here however no grounds were gained because politicians, including Mr. "Commentary" do not see beyong the walls of their air conditioned offices and the monitor of their computers.

In order to generate sufficient revenue base to sustain the need of every electorate, rural population, women and children and the "wish list" that aspiring politicians, accountants, lawyers, etc have on their shopping list, science and technology ought to be accorded the respect it needs to realise the huge potential that is under utilised.

With no government support so far, I for one have produced results that contain alot of promise when translated into monetary values. Unless we start to listening to each other and respect the views of others, we will not progress.

The Biotechnology Center is a welcome news because its full potential will be realised a few years down the road. The future global market will be in the biotechnology sector and PNG has to get involved now to reap the benefits tomorrow.

I am leaving my email contact for those who may be interested to know how many of our genetic and chemical compounds from PNG are earning the patent owners millions overseas while we continue to underestimate our biotechnology potential.

Thank you.

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My God let's get real

May 4 2007, 5:06 PM 

Before you go pushing for such high minded goals, would you consider:

1-That many of our rural schools are completely closed down and entire regions have no access to formal education any more?

2-That even close to our towns you will frequently find AID posts that have no medicines whatsoever?

You people are obviously living in some dreamworld that is far far from the realities of Papua New Guinea today.

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jane doe

Re: My God let's get real

May 4 2007, 6:19 PM 

I agree with with "disgusted" on these two issues, although I wouldn't totally discount the concept of a 'biotechnology centre'.

PNG needs the basics which we had prior to Independence. We need basic infrastructure to be rebuilt and maintained e.g. roads, schools, hospitals, village AID posts. That should be the focus of candidates for their region.

Some of you maybe to young to remember PNG in the late 60's early 70's.

As a small girl I would walk my bubuman 1km down the road to the Aid Post (EVERY VILLAGE HAD ONE) for whatever illness/injury he had. It was maintained and manned by a local nurse. The District Kiap would come once a month to restock bandages, aspirin, medicines etc WITHOUT fail, rain hail or shine he would be there and he would bring a Doctor to tend the villagers who couldn't get to town where the hospital was.

The roads were in good condition, the schools and hospitals were well maintained and stocked. All public buildings, lawns, gardens and facilities were immaculately kept, in my memory from 1969 - 1980 seven days a week. My bubuman said from 1978 to his death in 1999 the place went to s**t. He never wanted Independence, he kept asking up until his death "When are they Australians coming back?".

There were 'race and equality' issues with the 'white mastas' that I am not denying but by the same token I can't also deny that after they left it all pretty much went to s**t.

But we do have our "Independence, freedom and equality" - The educated minority wanted it, we got it and look what they've done with it. The 80% majority in the village have watched their standard of living and access to good health care facilities, and schools for their children decline.

The uneducated majority trusted the educated minority to steer the ship after the Australians left.

How much personal and economic 'independence, freedom and equality ' do we really have in PNG?

If a government can't maintain these basic facilities then we need to be asking serious questions. Maintenance of basic health and education in PNG is appalling. The government will build new hospitals, schools, stadiums etc and attend the official opening ceremonies, accept the kudos that invariably goes with it but they always fail to maintain. Why, is it because maintenance involves long term planning and budgeting and fiscal discipline.

Encourage your wantoks and rellies to vote for the candidate that offers long term solutions to health, education and basic infrastructure as a priority.

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Re: My God let's get real

May 5 2007, 11:38 AM 

Disgusted and Jane doe ought to get out of their little cubicles and look at the bigger picture. Their view will fit nicely into the bigger picture if we can generate sufficient revenue to boost the GDP, which will address their little problem.
Right now, we will not go anywhere if we start thinking small.

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jane doe

little problem

May 5 2007, 12:09 PM 


Why do you consider the 'quality of life' issues of 80% of the population a "little problem"?

As for revenue to boost the GDP that shouldn't be necessary to "address our little problems". We have funds allocated in the budget to solve these "little" problems of AIDS education, schools, health etc. it's jsut been mismanaged somewhere between budget time and delivery to the people.

If you don't have an educated, healthy and living population you won't have anyone to "think big".

Read the first sentence of my posting, I don't have a problem with 'biotech' there is a place for it, I just don't think it is as important as health, education and the provision and maintenance of basic infrastructure.

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Re: little problem

May 12 2007, 11:27 AM 

You are spot on. Evaluating 'development' and 'progress' in any other way than measuring the quality of life will result in a completely false assessment. A nation's economy can be growing monetarily, yet the money is accumulating into the hand's of a very few, while the majority feel more and more hopeless and spend what little money they have seeking relief in alcohol, gambling, etc.

What I find so unrealistic about Dr Waine's plans for PNG is that he seems to be addressing the minority better offs rather than the majority worse offs. For example, he wants a vast improvement in science education. Fine, but let's start by re-opening literally hundreds of closed down schools, where students have no ability to learn anything.

I think that Dr Waine would find, after election, that just solving the basic problems of PNG will use up all the money we have. There simply is no money for more dreamtime imagination ideas. Remember all the international airports we were going to have in different places? Alotau actually upgraded to that point yet still there are so few tourists it doesn't pay for the expense of upgrading the airport.

Then there was the crazy marine world idea of many years back for Ela Beach. Thank God only a few hundred thousand kina were wasted pursuing that crazy idea.

All those ideas were heavily promoted at the time, and those laughiung at the ideas were putdown as lacking vision. Crazy, crazy, crazy, that's what we see all those ideas to be now.

Biotech centres will certainly join the "crazy ideas of PNG" list when history judges.

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anonymous - liklik samting

May 5 2007, 12:25 PM 


so waht you are saying is unless you think big, talk big you are not worth caring about-the 80 percent uneducated majority can take a jump, because you're only concerned about the 'big things'.

Let me get this right "the government can't get the small things right but it can get the big things right so let it get the big things right before it fixes the small things".

So we'll run first and then learn to crawl later. wanem kain logic.

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My View

Some thoughts

May 4 2007, 11:01 PM 

1. I hold no affiliation to the SAP political party and the views that follow may not reflect the management of the party.

2. Aspirations of every PNGian may be specific, but am sure they almost always group into hope for security, welfare, satisfaction and happiness. People attempt to harness related factors in life to realize these hopes. I agree that basic needs in every aspect of development must be addressed and political party platforms/policies seem to show these, only that they are not effectively and prudently implemented.

3. Every academically/professionally trained PNGian MUST take responsibility and uphold the welfare of our nation. These endeavors must be for the pride and reputation of her standing in the global community. SAP may be fostering these notions through its policies, thus a vision for a national biotechnology centre. It is a good policy and can be highly beneficial if potentials for biotechnology (biotech) were properly understood and exploited.

4. Policies and accompanying strategies may be short term, medium term and long term, and are established to guide and direct one's developmental activities. It is not like SAP will establish the biotech centre after forming the government in August, 2007. There is always a need for SWOT analysis.

5. Biotech is not a new concept to humanity; only coined and applied differently for mankind has advanced. Since the dawn of civilization mankind has practiced biotech, only that we have moved from the basic practices of manipulating and protecting plants & animals to using highly advanced modern biotech. It is the modern biotech PNG needed to apply in areas 'Stew' has mentioned. We should not shy away, but explore the possibilities of such technologies that have proven to have the potential of generating good cash, which certainly will facilitate other aspects of development raised in this thread.

6. Some aspects of modern biotech is already being practiced in training and research institutions such as PNG Unitech (Lae), OPRA (Kimbe), PNGIMR (Goroka), NBPOL (DAMI), NARI (some stations), PNGCRI (Aiyura) and PNGCCI (Kerevat). As a cost/benefit approach, a central biotech facility can be established and its activities streamlined to address same or similar issues being worked on by the above organizations. A national policy would facilitate this approach and SAP may be in this line of thought.

7. "Go and take dominion over all creation," said the Maker. My attitude is that no encouter in life is a problem, but only a challenge. And challenge is the Maker's package to us to test and expose our potential. I am with any capable PNGian intellectual who dares into uncommon frontiers that hold promise for a better tomorrow.

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Re: Some thoughts

May 4 2007, 11:37 PM 

Think big!

Don't waste your time underestimating PNG's capabilities and that of the human resources it has produced. That's how people become successful and countries become powerful. They don't look within their limitations but how they can turn their wildest dreams into realities. Nothing is impossible! We can turn PNG into an industrialized country if we have the right leaders who think beyond their 5 yr political life-span.

Mi tok ya, Clement putim het wantaim olgeta save man blong yumi bai yumi ken wokim senis. He needs to affiliate with the right people...SAP as a party itself is OK but I am very much skeptical of its other members.

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My View

Re: Some thoughts

May 5 2007, 8:17 AM 

Kanaka, I agree...

As I have said, I am with those intellectuals who are prepared to take some risk for the better. Once it was thought separating seamese twins with a single membrane partitioning their brains was an impossible task, and those attempting the feat were deamed to fail. A black American doctor (Dr. Ben Carson) came along, decided to take the challenge and created history! Who said PNGians were incapable! We can! Any inferiority attitude is only in the mind!!

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Re: Some thoughts

May 5 2007, 9:42 AM 

Sorry. Dr Waine's dreams go far into the realm of unreality and make-up stuff.

Maybe a couple months actually living in villages will cure him of that and next time around we can see a much more realistic SAP platform.

We can only hope.

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Re: Some thoughts

May 5 2007, 10:44 AM 


I am just as excited by the possibilities of PNG's involvement in biotech industries as you are, although I don't understand the scientific aspects of it - I work with numbers. Of course PNG's human resources are untapped but first you have to make sure they receive a good education and live to fulfil the dream.

My argument is that the 80% majority who live in the villages are lacking basic services in the way of schools, aid posts, law and order, clean water, good roads and hygienic hospitals and a growing spread of violence and gangs roaming around a law unto themselves, especially in the highlands. There is the growing AIDS pandemic. They are concerned with 'quality of life' for their children and kin. Biotechnology does not figure in their list of priorities at the moment, it may 10 years from now with the next generation, if their basic needs are met.

Of course there is no reason why biotechonology and these core quality of life issues shouldn't all be considered and funded. We have always had enough funds for it, it has always been mismanaged.

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jane doe

commentary - biotech dreamtime concoction

May 5 2007, 11:40 AM 


'The reality of the world' you mean your world - this is your opinion and yours alone you don't speak for anyone else, these are limitations you place on yourself.

You mentioned in your posting that 'dreams are great, they have to be realistic otherwise they are a waste of time'.

I do believe the same thing was said on many occasions to 'Gandhi, Martin Luthur King, Mandela, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Emmeline Pankhurst, Eddie Mabo etc.

I find merit in your argument that SAP policies and Dr Waines approach may be on a completely different level than the audience he is playing to. It's a big gap to bridge. We'll find out soon enough.

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Y the SAP forum was locked/removed

May 4 2007, 9:51 PM 


Ating ol lokim na rausim olsem sampela manmeri were belittling & insulting Dr Waines character.

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