Well, now that we can see the footage on Sigung John Bishop's website, (albeit not much footage) of Prof. Chow in action, what do people think now? Is the stuff that William Chun Jr. teaches, or GM Kuoha more closely linked to what Prof. Chow taught? I ask this because the late William Chun Sr. was even more highly ranked by Chow than Kuoha was, yet, Kuoha is the heir-apparent to the Chow lineage, so I'm a bit curious. The rapid fire hand strikes are very evident in the footage extant, and any kicking was after the guy was already on the ground. Kuoha's Kara-Ho Kempo is full of high TKD style kicking, and I have no idea what Chun's looks like. Anyone?

Here, for instance, is a post from 2003 from an anonymous poster known only as "Observer":

Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:00:51 -0500

>by observer
>"I think that Scott has the correct web site. Chow never selected Sam
>as Grand Master nor did he promote him to 10th degree.Only Bill Chun
>Sr. Was promoted to 10th by Chow(1976). Sam's system does not in any
>way have any similarity to Chow's Kara-Ho. Ive seen both, Chow, Chun
>and Sam. Sam's way out there with his version. Chow quit teaching the
>old stuff in the late 70s and in June of 1987 promoted Bill Chun to
>11th degree because of what Sam was claiming on his certificate.
>True, Bill Chun didn't accept the 11th because he was much to humble
>a man to claim anything like that, but the promotion was made. Sam
>is full of Bull, when he met Bill Chun Jr. he had fear in his face,
>he tried to back away and Chun Jr. held him in place, Sams body
>guard tried to step between them and could not move Chun. There were
>a lot of people who saw this and one Kajukenbo man said he got it on
>tape. No, Sam doesn't teach Chow's method, only his own."


Okay, I have NO idea how true this is, but would be curious to hear if anyone else has an opinion about this.---Dan

Here's some earlier info I found on this topic from about two years ago. Now that we have footage to look at, I'd be interested to hear people's opinions.---Dan

1960 wrote:
IF YOU ARE REALLY LOOKING FOR THE TEACHING AND PHILOSPY OF PROF CHOW, AND ALL DUE RESPECT TO AN UNINFORMED BROTHER JOHN. DON'T GO TO THE FAKE SITE OF KARA HO KEMPO BUY THE GUY WHO CALLS HIMSELF THE SAM THE MAN GRANDMASTER. Sam Kauhoa studied under the Professor less than 16 times. After Chows passing He had a business arrengment with the Prof. late wife to take over the system, for this he was to pay he a certian amount of money and take care of her. Nun of this took place, he bilked her and Chow himself prior to his death. This guy does not know Kare Ho, admitted publicly he did not like Chow or the way he taught, and teacheds a mix of TKD and akido.If you want true Chow teaching and philophsy go to the Chow Chun site The Go shin jitsu kai Chinese kempo. This is the origional system taught by Chow and passed down buy promotions directed buy himself and his succesors. The present day Grandmaster is Bill Chun Jr. Chun Jr began studing under
the Prof. and Chun Sr. at the age of five years old, lived with the Prof and was a valued confident. Chun Jr. learned the Kempo/Kenpo life the only way one
could in those days, by living it. Contray to what the many uninformed believe, Chow taught the most effective way possible. If you through a punch or a kick you learned to block and counter. Each individual was taught as an individual. The basics were taught as a group but Chow and Chun realized that each person had to learn to effectivly defend there selves in a method that fit them physcicly and mentaly. Unlike todays kenpo teaching, in which you are required to learn a hundred or so techniques which might not work for you, which I and any person with good sense would agree is a waste of time. We were kicking the tar out of other Martial Artists in a hurry, we were able to defend ourselves and were effective. On the other hand when you have a commercial school one must have a set of rules for promotion.Believe me Chows methed was harse but effective, even though Ed Parker left Chow as an early Brown belt he was still the most effective out there on the main land, this it self speaks for Chows methods. The true Chow linage is as follows. Chow started the system, promoted Bill Chun to 10th degree in 1976,Chow promoted Chun Jr to Black Belt in 1977 and began refering to him as the young Master. In 1993 Chun Sr. promoted Chun Jr. to 10th degree. If you want more info I can Email you or you can Email the Go Shin Jitsu site.
Respect

Brother John Wrote:
YUP, I was uninformed. Teach me to trust every issue of Inside Kung-Fu huh?

Anyone else got a hornets nest theyd like me to kick?

Thanks for setting me straight 1960.
(always wondered why they kicked like Tae Kwan Doists)
Your Brother
John
PS: Please e-mail me with that further info... thanks.

Sfp wrote: i'm sorry, didn't know Ed Parker's American Kenpo was such a waste of time...

so exactly how many techniques/counters did Chow teach?




1960 Wrote:
If you take the sum of the people Chow taught and factor in the mental, pyhsical and athletic differances and mutiply that by the amount of time each person spent with Chow, then factored in the amount of time they spent studying what they were taught. That would give you a good idea of the amount of tech Chow taught.
As far as what Mr. Parker taught, it was much better than what many others are teaching, but the fact is Iam tired of people saying or insinuating that Chows methods were not effective. Ive seen this posted many times in this forum and yet not by anyone that has gone up against the likes of Chow, the Chun brothers or even Bill Chun Jr. Ive seen them all and know what they can do. And yes, I feel learning a tech. which is not suitable for you is a waste of time. Some of what is being taught today is, in my openion, not what Mr. Parker intended at all.
Respect

Ron Chapel Wrote:
1960. I hate to be the one to bust the bubbles all the time. I'm glad you know the Sam Kohoa story as well.

For John: The magazines print whatever you tell them and are full of third party errors. They often put their own spin on things as well to create controversy (which sells magazines).

1960 wrote:
I Thank You, Its good to know that others are aware of the fox in the hen house. Iam glad the good Dr. knows
Respect

Any user wrote:
Hello everybody, I do not get on the internet very often, but I was informed that somebody is on here making statements about Professor Chow and also Go Shin Jitsu Kai Chinese Kempo. This person is using the name, "1960?"
Anyways, I would just like to say that this person does not represent the Chuns or Go Shin Jitsu-Kai Chinese Kempo and is speaking on his on behalf. Therefore, things he says are his own views and may not represent the beliefs, views or truths known to and by the actual practitioners within that particular Kempo system.
If you want answers to any questions regarding Professor Chow or the Go Shin Jitsu-Kai Chinese Kempo system, please go to their website and e-mail their webmaster directly.

Thankyou guys and good training to all.

Joe Shuras wrote:
I know this is a late message but I just was going through the archives and caught it. I took a two day seminar with Master Bill Chun Jr. sponsered by Nick Cerio's Kenpo, hosted by Hanshi Craig Seavey & Shihan John James in Framingham, Massachusetts. You are absolutely right! His Kempo is exactly what I thought Professor Chow's Kempo would be like. (I was a former student of the late Professor Nick Cerio). Master Chun was lightning fast, extremely powerful and very explosive. He did a controlled technique on me and I just felt his power go through my body.
I also had communicated with him on the net with various questions before and after I had met him. He always got back to me right away and I found him extremely helpful, courteous, friendly & very knowledgable. A definite role model of the martial arts world. I, myself, have been in the Arts since 1973 and consider myself a good judge of character and ability. Take care, Shihan Joe Shuras

Wow...I was told about this site from friends that have been on it and I didn't realize how much derogotory comments are slung around. Amazing though as an editor of Inside Karate Magazine said some year ago...that allot of people will talk, but none will say it to the person's face. I say this...people have given me no choice but to make a verbal interview done by Professor Chow in the late 70's, public or a portion thereof. Because of it's negativity, I have refrained from making it public as this is the man that is speaking and if anyone knew him like I did, there would be no questions. There will also be a interview by Professor Chow's long time friend and advisor on this dvd made public hopefully by the end of September. Then after you big mouths all watch it, you can sit down, open mouth and insert foot.
As to Bill Chun Jr. I never even met him but evidently he knew who I was. I was a guest at Hanshi Bruce Juknik's Gathering in Sacramento and Bill Chun Jr. walked up to me and shook my hand, then he started to squeeze it or a poor attempt to do that. It happened for only a few seconds and then he said I am Bill Chun Jr. My instructor and student was behind me and stepped from behind me and Bill Chun Jr. couldn't release my hand fast enough. He didn't say nothing after that but quickly walked away. I just spoke to my instructor and by the way, his name is Sensei Al Parker, a former USMC Recon instructor, who went to war in the gulf and was 20' from Saddam Hassahn, but was told to leave him alone. He is now a Police officer and head of SWAT. He said whoever is writing these letters are full of you know what, that he never even touched Bill Chun Jr, ( and anyone that klnows Sensei Al knows that if he had done so, this argument would not be in discussion at all) and these comments are false and he would like to see that video tape, he said he is easy to get a hold off and he is more then happy to oblige anyone to prove them wrong. He said to put up or shut up and quit saying things that are nothing but lies as he was there and so was Hanshi Bruce Juknik.
PS. In this tape interview Professor slams Bill Chun Sr because he never tried to stay in contact and in fact in this interview he says he has not seen or heard from Chun Sr. for the past several years. Watch for the dvd, then you can make your choice. By the way, a declaration signed and notarized by Patsy Chow (Professor's wife) was printed in a magazine article with what her husband wanted for the system. *I bet you all think all these people are lying and I paid them all off, even a wealthy man like Dr. Perry.

Kenpo has always been an innovative system but you certainly have to stay around to learn all the good stuff. Too many people, thought Professor Chow was a plain person...but ohhh, they never saw the good side of him. Get involved in Kara-Ho for about 15 years and you will see what was taught in the good days. If not don't talk about something you don't know. Try talking with John Soet sometime, he was the editor of the then Inside Karate Magazine and he says in an interview and article that as soon as Professor Chow passed away, he contacted everyone that was important in Hawaii and learn the truth. All you folks have is nothing but hearsay...and in the courts system hearsay is inadmissable for one reason...and that is because it is the portrayal of one's person owns interpretation and not a true fact. If you got something bad to say...tell it to my face.
Grandmaster Kuoha

>As to Bill Chun Jr. I never even met him but evidently he knew who I was. I was a guest >at Hanshi Bruce Juknik's Gathering in Sacramento and Bill Chun Jr. walked up to me and >shook my hand, then he started to squeeze it or a poor attempt to do that. It happened >for only a few seconds and then he said I am Bill Chun Jr. My instructor and student was >behind me and stepped from behind me and Bill Chun Jr. couldn't release my hand fast >enough. He didn't say nothing after that but quickly walked away. I just spoke to my >instructor and by the way, his name is Sensei Al Parker, a former USMC Recon instructor, >who went to war in the gulf and was 20' from Saddam Hassahn, but was told to leave him >alone. He is now a Police officer and head of SWAT. He said whoever is writing these >letters are full of you know what, that he never even touched Bill Chun Jr, ( and anyone >that klnows Sensei Al knows that if he had done so, this argument would not be in >discussion at all) and these comments are false and he would like to see that video tape, >he said he is easy to get a hold off and he is more then happy to oblige anyone to prove >them wrong. He said to put up or shut up and quit saying things that are nothing but lies >as he was there and so was Hanshi Bruce Juknik.

Well, I personally love a good story and I'm not trying to dispute anything you say sir. However, I do believe that if you line up 20 different witnesses to this event, they will all have a different story, even WITH a video. They will have different interpretations according to their angles of view, faulty memories, prides, prejudices and collaborations. I personally was there and the walls shook, there was a flash of lighting, water was turned into wine, everybody took a deep breath and there was a UFO sighting. I'm seriously kidding but keep that statement in mind and then read this: WHO cares? BS is BS. With all due respect... Who is lying? Bill Chun? The original poster? You? Don't let it get to you. Again, who cares...? You are responding to a random post on the internet how do you know Bil Chun Jr. even said those things? I do not even know for sure that I am responding to a post from GM Kuoha. Did you talk to Bill jr? Maybe you guys should, it might change things. We should humble ourselves and let bygones be.
I think you guys should just shake hands and try to be friends, brothers in arts or acquantices at least. That would be much more constructive than pointless he said she said pointing and bickering. Over what? It is obvious Professor taught and told many people many different things. Some that may even conflict with things he said to other people. Some people may even lie about what he said or taught. Again, who cares. That was over 20 yrs ago. Many of those people are no longer active in the arts or even alive. So much knowledge is being lost everyday by these men dying. What Professor taught you was good and it was for you. The same can be said for what he taught others. Keep the Professor's memory intact but let's move forward. Let's let the arts he passed on speak for themselves and remember him for that. You yourselves should be remembered for that. Keeping the flame burning. Not for keeping up controversy or fighting. There is so much knowledge to share and that we all can benefit from. Honestly, is this topic so important that grown men cannot come together to celebrate what they were taught and their love for the Professor? It is obvious at least that you both have that for the Professor. I would love to see the 2 of you put on a comparison seminar. Not to see who is better or who is right, but to see a celebration of the different interpretations that artists have taken from the intstructions of their Master, so all can benefit and we can keep the art alive by sharing and gaining new students.


>PS. In this tape interview Professor slams Bill Chun Sr because he never tried to stay in >contact and in fact in this interview he says he has not seen or heard from Chun Sr. for >the past several years.

Well, this may be true. Oh well. Not everybody was able to live up to the Professors expectations, that's too bad. I wish things were different. The Professor may have said things about you when you weren't around as well Sir. Does it matter? Honestly, nobody is perfect, I guess we would all like to be the knight in shining armor. Not going to happen. I really don't believe the Professor was perfect, all I know is that he is one of the greatest Martial Artists to have ever lived. But again, this was over 20 yrs. ago. Let's move on. After Bill Chun Sr.'s wife passed away he dropped out of the arts for a time. The money he was sending to help the Professor stopped as well. I'm sure the Professor was upset about this as Bill was there for him for a long time and then life changed and some things came to a pause. Nobody is perfect and who ever said life was easy? Again, let's let the different seeds that the Professor has sewn come together and create something greater than any one art by itself. We are all part of the Chow Kempo family, even if it is disfunctional at times.

I say all of this out of respect and to bring people together. I have no enemies and do not wish to have any. I'd only like to see things change. Sometimes emotions and fears cloud a more sensible resolution from being born in situations such as these. Let's focus on what's important and real. If any offence is taken to anything I said or it is wrong in any way, please humble me. We can all have, see and benefit from a different future together if we spread humility and just try.

thanks,
Jacob

A response to this post has been written by Master Bill Chun Jr. You can read it by using the link below.

http://www.chinesekempo.org/kenponetresponse.htm

Brian

I wrote to you in the past and I truthfully identified myself to you, but somehow you never replied to any of my letters and your Kempo students (bodyguards) replied in return protecting you from ever answering my letters.

Before you publish anything derogratory about Bill Chun, Senior or Junior, I strongly suggest that you get in touch with me so as to sort matters out. I have researched Professor Chow's reputation and Kempo practice as well as have been fair with you. What you call derogratory comments, found in replies to the posting by Dan Weston merely reflects the truth and such comments are not derogratory. You may not like what is being said, but such things, many of them, are true, including my comments made in my posting today.

I have read what you have said and I have read what the Parkers have said and I agree, generally, with what you people have said, yet I think that people should be civil and should treat Professor Chow as well as Master Bill Chun Senior with great respect. He who does not like my dog (friends, family, and fellow long-time Kempo buddies), does not like me!

If you value Professor Chow, you should not speak ill of Master Bill Chun.

I do agree with what you have posted, because in his dying years no one helped Professor Chow. Yet, you should not speak ill of Master Chun as Professor Chow taught this man his system. 15 lessons does not make a man an expert on Professor Chow's style.

If you really do love Professor Chow, then you should value the cultural background behind Professor Chow. While I am being treated in much the same way as Professor Chow by his students, they are correct in venting their hatred of you. You make many claims, which are fraudulent and many of these students, ages ago, could have licked you with one hand tied behind their backs. Do you remember the Sand Island get together after Professor Chow's death and with all of his students there challenging for headship of the Professor's school. You walked out and therefore shouldn't have had any part in claims of representing Professor Chow's style. As I see it, you have no legal right to the use of Professor Chow's name. If his son or any other successor were smarter, they would certainly challenge you in a court of law to prove that you are indeed Professor Chow's successor...this is something that you are not!

DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF MASTER CHUN, inspite of what Professor Chow told you confidentially, as such things were only meant for you privately. Master Chun does represent a major portion if not almost all of Professor Chow's style and teachings.

Please write to me, I can explain (privately)!

Lester D.K. Chow
zhouclan@yahoo.com

I was surfing the net, when I came across your posting "William Chow: Who is Closer?" I thought that your article was very interesting. I do not know Professor Chow, never met him, though I did find out, later, that his father is the younger brother to my grandfather, so that would make Professor Chow my second-uncle. I spoke to many people from the Kempo circles in Hawaii and surfed the net years earlier to learn what I can about Professor Chow. I would like to add there is much Chinese history behind Professor Chow that many people do not know of.

Professor Chow comes from my family circle and Chinese of old in Hawaii followed the same cultural patterns, so if anyone lied and said things that were untrue, being a family and clan member, I, we, would know about it.

I accept the comments made below as truth, because what local people in Kempo have told me and from what I know about my own family culture, it certainly rings true. If a man did something by fraud and stole another man's property, he would not be able to get away with it, because the other man, whom he had taken things from, would have put safety measures in place to prevent and detect theft. Does this man Sam Kuoha know the hidden and secret things about Professor Chow? If not, then why not? Such things, secret and hidden things (Chinese culture) would be passed on to his true successor as the Professor had, I found and I have been told, a lot of pride in his Chinese roots and ancestry as, also, evidenced by his Kempo practice. The Chou clan, people who descend from China's Chou Dynasty, today, are China's imperial family. This does include Professor Chow, so Professor Chow's background has deep cultural meaning and clan attachments. The reasoning goes like this, "If you love my dog, kind of thing, certainly you would love me. If you do not love my dog, then I do not believe that you truly love me!" Therefore, if you love Professor Chow, he would have taught you the secret things behind his power or family ancestry. How many students of Professor Chow know his secrets. In my opinion, only the few that I have spoken to. It is an easy thing to purchase Professor Chow's trophies and medals, especially when Professor Chow was poor and with nothing to his name. His wife Patsey suffered and had to sell what she could so she could survive. Professor Chow did have a close relationship with a few of his students like Bill Chun, Senior, and others.

It would be a shame for Professor Chow's name and legacy to be wasted and to amount to nothing. Sam Kuoha, I do not know, but I do know that he does not practice Professor Chow's style. Any misrepresentation by Mr. Kuoha would not be accepted well by the Kempo practitioners nor by people who were students of Professor Chow.

Yours,
Lester D.K. Chow
President of the Chou Clansmen Association of America
(The family organization for all people with the Chow surname in America)

The following is true:

Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:00:51 -0500

>by observer
>"I think that Scott has the correct web site. Chow never selected Sam
>as Grand Master nor did he promote him to 10th degree.Only Bill Chun
>Sr. Was promoted to 10th by Chow(1976). Sam's system does not in any
>way have any similarity to Chow's Kara-Ho. Ive seen both, Chow, Chun
>and Sam. Sam's way out there with his version. Chow quit teaching the
>old stuff in the late 70s and in June of 1987 promoted Bill Chun to
>11th degree because of what Sam was claiming on his certificate.
>True, Bill Chun didn't accept the 11th because he was much to humble
>a man to claim anything like that, but the promotion was made. Sam
>is full of Bull, when he met Bill Chun Jr. he had fear in his face,
>he tried to back away and Chun Jr. held him in place, Sams body
>guard tried to step between them and could not move Chun. There were
>a lot of people who saw this and one Kajukenbo man said he got it on
>tape. No, Sam doesn't teach Chow's method, only his own."

I have personally seen a signed and notarized certificate from Prof. Chow promoting GM Kuoha to 9th degree from 1984. He was also listed as the Vice President of Prof. Chow's organization. After Prof. Chow died in 1987, GM Kuoha called Sijo Emperado and asked him if he wanted to take over the system. This was a VERY humble move. Sijo said no and that since it was clearly Prof. Chow's wish that Kuoha take over the system, it would be disrespectful to their former teacher to do otherwise.

No one is saying that Chun, Castro, Parker etc. weren't student's of Prof. Chow. They all were and they all carried on their training in their own way. But it is equally clear that GM Kuoha is the one that Prof. Chow intended to take over his art and organization in the end. Thank you for all of the input in an attempt to clear up the matter. For me the issue is resolved.