This is a question for everyone, who would you call a Ed Parker Student, one who went to pasadena and did private and group classes, one who did seminars or what?
Next question is did Mr. Parker at the pasadena school in the last ten years of his life, and did he accept new students during that time, or did he delagate new student to some of his seniors.

First question:

I do consider myself a student in Ed Parkers Kenpo, which in short would be an Ed Parker student, but that's probably not what you mean, since I have never had the pleasure and the honor of meeting Mr. Parker.

You're probably searching for a definition of someone who could call himself Ed Parker's student. I guess in my opinion there was only person who could determine who Ed Parker's students were, and was Ed Parker himself.
Since the man unfortunately is no longer with us, he hasn't got any students anymore, so the answer to your question would be no-one.

To elaborate further on this I'd like to ask why does it matter? We're all students of Ed Parker's Kenpo. Some can tell stories about Ed Parker from their own experience, and some can't but does that in itself make their Kenpo better or worse? Not in my opinion.

If we believe that only a person who has been a direct student of Ed Parker can be good (the best) at Kenpo, then we will have to admit that the road we're following is going nowhere but downhill. In 50 years there will be no former Ed Parker's students left, so first generation students, who were the best in this dogma, will have to be replaced by 2nd generation, and another 50 years later there will only be 3rd generations left.

(the periods of time will most probably be shorter then that, but I don't want to send anyone in instant depression, which is why I talk about 50 years).

Do we want to follow a downhill road? I for sure don't, and I'm still around because I don't believe that's the road we're following.

Newer generation students who have never met Mr. Parker can be just as good or even better then the first generation. The only reason why at this moment in time the best people in Kenpo (IMO) are some of the people who have been students of Ed Parker, is that those are the people who have been in and at Kenpo for the longest time!! By the time we, second and third generation Parker Kenpoists, have been training and studying for more then 30 years, some of us will be just as good or even better then the seniors we look up to now.

Our road isn't going downhill, we're going upward and we're nowhere even near the top of the mountain yet!!

Second question:

That's where the people who were Ed Parker's students come in handy, they know about history from their own memory. And that's why books like "The Journey" are so important, to be able to trace back history after the first generation will be gone. All the questions we still have after reading those books, will have to be asked now, while tey're still around.

Just my opinion, keep the discussion friendly, even if you don't agree.

Marcel

***************************************
Marcel de Jong, 4th Black from the Netherlands

http://www.katsudokenpo.nl

"In 50 years there will be no former Ed Parker's students left"

While there won't be any old-timers remaining (In 50 years, I'd be 111 years of age, Chuck Sullivan would be 125, and Joe Hyams would be 135), those who were in their 30s and lower and training with Mr. Parker around the time he passed will still be alive in 50 years - perhaps shuffling around in walkers, but they'll here.

Salute

"While there won't be any old-timers remaining (In 50 years, I'd be 111 years of age, Chuck Sullivan would be 125, and Joe Hyams would be 135), those who were in their 30s and lower and training with Mr. Parker around the time he passed will still be alive in 50 years - perhaps shuffling around in walkers, but they'll here."

Someone who was 30 when Mr. Parker passed away, will be 97 in 50 years. So although I appreciate an optimistic view I'm afraid there won't be too many of those people around by that time, let alone be active instructors.

Anyway, the point that I was making is that there will be a time that no former students of Ed Parker will be around anymore, be it in 50, 60 or 70 years.

Marcel

***************************************
Marcel de Jong, 4th Black from the Netherlands

http://www.katsudokenpo.nl

Everything I have come to understand about EP suggests that he was a revolutionary martial artist. He demystified the martial arts for all of us. In that sense he was unique. He was also unique in the way he moved and in his ability to teach through stories, analogies, etc.

The seniors had the benefit of training with him personally. They came to know first hand the logic he was building into his system of kenpo.

But is he the ONLY person who can think and express kenpo effectively? I think not. I think EP would be proud of all the students of his system that continue to perpetuate the art and evolve with the times.

The fighting arts have changed considerably since EP passed on. More and more people watch/know about/train MMA than anyone could have imagined. Many kenpoists now add MMA fighting techniques to their repertoire in the hopes of 'keeping up'. I think this is 'ok'.

There are some pretty sharp kenpoists out there who did not have the chance to meet with EP, let alone train with him. Many of these people are damn good at what they do and understand fully the process of kenpo. Perhaps some of these people understand it and can DO IT even better than some of the seniors.

Kenpo continues to evolve. It cannot stagnate. There are too many brilliant kenpoists around for that to happen.

While it is true that EP gave us many answers, it is also true that he left us many questions to discover the answers to on our own and as a group. And while we may never agree on which answers are 'right', we should be able to agree on at least one thing: We have a lot of thinking to do if we are to continue to evolve.

Respectfully,
TOMR

There are guys out there who maybe took a seminar or two, or a private or semi-private or two, and call themselves direct students of Mr. Parkers. Then there are guys who knew him for 20-30 years, some seniors, some having never endeavored to yon dizzy heights, but who spent much more time with him than most...maybe content to call him "friend". They, too, call themselves students of Mr. Parkers.

Guys in the middle somewhere, with more time than many and less than others...some play it up, hoping to "BIRG"..."bask in reflected glory". Some play it down, hoping not to be construed as "one of THOSE guys". Some will beef up their resume with half-truths, while others play down their resume's with tactical ommissions.

I guess it's all in how individuals choose to honor their memory of Mr. Parker, and be remembered in kind.

D.

In psychology, its possible to be a student of Freud, albeit only of his teachings. So, I am a student of Ed Parker, through his teachings, I have never trained directly with him.

I study what he taught and how he moved through the videos on YouTube, etc and in his books, and also through those people who were privileged enough to know him and train with him.

I am a student of Ed Parkers but I was never Ed Parkers student.

Peace

Yours in Kenpo

I have to disagree on two points.

First, Freud was never a psychologist. Psychoanalysis was a competitor to psychology, seeking a different path. While psychology (especially American psychology) was moving from the philosophical to the empirical (testable science, building on direct observation), psychoanalysis was moving the opposite direction, toward myth, literary analogy, and untestable constructs. Freud is studied in psychology classes because of his indirect influences on psychology, such as with the "talking cure" or recognizing the influences of childhood experience, and for the ways psychology sought to move away from his decidedly unscientific approach. Freud lives on in English department literary analysis (after all, he did literary symbolism masquerading as mental health), and psych department jokes. God, I've heard a lot of Freud jokes. Good old Siggy Fraud.

Second, Jung was a student of Freud. Anna Freud was a student of Freud. Adler may have been a student or a peer, depending on accounts. But, no one alive is a student of Freud. There are students of Freudianism, or Freudian Analysis, but no students of Freud.

Even if I was the best kenpoist on the planet, I would still be a student of Ed Parker's kenpo, not a student of Ed Parker.

Peace,
Scott