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The Five C's in the 3rd State of Motion

July 7 2008 at 1:15 PM
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  (Login DrDaveDC)
from IP address 71.134.227.82

 
Attached to the 3RD STATE OF MOTION -- GASEOUS -- are aspects of movement that lead to TEMPORAL VARIANTS. These temporal variants might be best understood in language metaphor contexts, as decreasing the space between vowels or consonants. They are reductions in time, accomplished by altering and alternating rhythmic execution. The "Five C's" are things we can do to movement in the gaseous state of execution that cause that movement to occur in shortened time frames, in tighter or larger spaces, with shorter or bigger circles, lines, semi-circles, or orbital elipses which have been elongated or reduced.

Compound
Contract
Condense
Consolidate
Conjugate

How are they similar and different? When would one be desirable over another? When might one be undesirable over another? How do the moves in a sequence chain together differently when under the influence of one or more of the Five C's? (i.e., how might Parting Wings. Five Swords, Hooking Wings, or Thundering Hammers look different during gaseous execution under the influence of CONTRACTION alone? What about under the influence of CONTRACTION and CONJUGATION at the same time?)

FYI -- "the Five C's", "Circles of Confluence/Confluence of Circles", "Escalator Parking Spaces", "Chaining", and "Path of the Arc/Arc of the Path" are among some key core concepts that were being explored with Mr. P. prior to his passing, and relate to how Mr. Parker represented his own movement in his mind during it's execution. If you ever wanted a peek inside his head to see what was going on in his thoughts while he was moving or thinking about his own movement, here's a head start.

Talk amongst yourselves.


 
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AuthorReply
Trejo
(Login Trejo54)
76.194.247.93

5 C's

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July 8 2008, 10:05 AM 

Seems to me that when you bring all those "C" elements together in a state of gaseous execution under the influence of CONTRACTION and CONJUGATION at the same time that you would totally have the opposite effect, which would be the the "6th C" (CONSTIPATION) Oh!!! my tummy hurts

 
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Dave Crouch, DC
(Login DrDaveDC)
71.134.227.82

And here I though you were headed for the 7th C

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July 8 2008, 3:00 PM 

CONFLATULATION!!!

Best Regards,

Don Juan Frijole

 
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Trejo
(Login Trejo54)
76.194.247.93

Actually

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July 8 2008, 4:21 PM 

That would be the remedy. ohhh! I feel much better ;-D

 
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BGile
(Login BGile)
74.37.135.197

Re: Actually

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July 8 2008, 9:22 PM 

The old saying of when in Rome do as the Romans do...Takes on a different thought when reading this:

History has numerous anecdotal accounts of flatulence, including Hippocrates himself professing, “Passing gas is necessary to well-being.” The Roman Emperor Claudius equally decreed that “all Roman citizens shall be allowed to pass gas whenever necessary.” Unfortunately for flatulent Romans, however, Emperor Constantine later reversed this decision in a 315 BC edict.

Gary

 
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BGile
(Login BGile)
74.37.135.197

Re: And here I though you were headed for the 7th C

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July 8 2008, 7:55 PM 

When I started reading this I was going to add a few that came to mind also, I am glad others have gone to the funny side of it.

First thing I thought was of all the stories...

Many were learning from EP Sr. on the side just before he died, so the end result was the demise of the man. He must not have gotten much sleep in that last 6 months of his life. Seems to me he would have been working 24/7.

Since his book of reference the "Encyclopedia of Kenpo" being the last thing attibuted to him (with his son compiling and being the reason it was put out). If it is not in there, then the ones talking about it should put it on their shift/watch.

When things go down in the city it is the Watch Commanders job to make sure the right people are notified and pass it on to others. They do get credit for a job well done, and if it is not done well, they pass it on to others LOL...

Gary


 
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BGile
(Login BGile)
74.37.135.197

Re: 5 C's

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July 9 2008, 2:16 PM 

Those who want to discuss this seriously, need to go to AKF and talk there. It has been placed into "cult status" by a request from Dr. Dave at this point and time. Only those who speak and understand this new topic need apply I am thinking. No others will be allowed I think.

Good ploy Dave. It is sad for the discussion was going well I thought? It is not going very good here though, I know why and so do you. 5 letter word/name comes to mind.

Regards,
Gary

 
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Dave Crouch, DC
(Login DrDaveDC)
71.134.227.82

In response...

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July 9 2008, 4:39 PM 

Gary:

The 5C thread was started specifically to get the feedback and input of kenpo people, doing kenpo. If they like it, hate it, whatever, doesn't matter: What matters is that the conversation stays on topic. It might not make a bit of difference to you, but is important to me as it represents a thesis-level chapter of my life...if you've ever been caught in a chapter of your life researching and writing one, you'll know what I mean.

I asked for the thread to be moved so that it didn't degrade further into a school of red herrings. Some of your distractions are entertaining; some are simply not desired in specific contexts. I have seen what happens when you are asked to cease; it doesn't happen, and the innuendoes and distraction continues. So, if taking steps to safeguard the direction of a kenpo thread, about kenpo, on a kenpo forum makes me a punk, I'll take that shot gladly. You can make all the cult accusations and in-group inferences you like. A discussion about the nature of apples does not require a myriad of links to marine habitat articles, and the lives of the herrings that dwell therein.

Do with it what you will,

Dave

 
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BGile
(Login BGile)
74.37.135.197

My response.

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July 9 2008, 7:48 PM 

I know Dave,

I am stating to feel bad about it. Jumping in and being an outsider and you posting it in numerous locations.

How did it go at Martial Talk? I have not been back to read it there. Since I can not post, no real reason unless I was to use what is there for a reference and if others have discussed it with you?

This post is not as appropriate as it is at AKF, but I am getting more from you about it as we go along the way. I would like to see some information, a Thesis on it would be nice. You are qualified I would have to say.

What do others who have posted here have to say to the response to me about the poking fun at it a little, and understanding the 5 c theory. I have not read much about it. It's posted at another location specificly, mentioning, another GM, Org. teaching it.

But those who have mentioned it and have allowed me some inner thought, all did it via e-mail. Quite interesting their input.

Thanks again Dave, for taking time, to tell me. I guess I am lucky to be able to discuss it here.

Regards,
Gary

 
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(Login Trejo54)
76.194.247.93

OK , Im Back

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July 10 2008, 9:55 AM 

Seems to me that your 5Cs are a contradiction to the Gaseous State of Motion. To me I think that Gaseous State of Motion is an "Explosion" of instantaneous action or reaction that ignites and burst from the inside out that would be "RIPPING THROUGH" anything and everything through out the universe. Your 5Cs Compound, Contract, Condense, Consolidate and Conjugate are principles that would best be served in the Outer Rim Concept, that teaches you to "CONFINE" defensive and offensive move of your arms and hands within the imaginary circle that circles the outer rim of your body. To me your 5Cs are based on "COMPACTING", like squashing and empty beer can. But then again, WTF do I know.
5 letter word/name that comes to mind


    
This message has been edited by Trejo54 from IP address 76.194.247.93 on Jul 10, 2008 10:08 AM


 
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BGile
(Login BGile)
74.37.135.197

Big Bang

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July 10 2008, 10:18 AM 

Now it is on the right track, no more funnin. Just simple logic.

When gas is cold it slows down and it can freeze solid out in the universe, when contained under pressure it is a liquid. Temperature is a biggie.

Petrol is another term for gas or diesel. Under conditions that are correct they are explosive for sure.

So if you are feeling sluggish it could be from a "Gaseous" state or you might have eaten a big meal, and needing some release. As in very spontaneous at times. LOL

I personally think this is one of the reasons, many just can't get their head into AK, to much convolution into other things besides natural expansion and contraction of your muscles and other such things in your body. Muscle memory is a term used and after 10,000,000 times hitting the speed bags since I started back in the 50's, give or take a million. I never thought about air (gas) unless my speed bag was not up to the right pounds of pressure.

But I am not sure, so I again went into the funny mode, or not...Gas in the free state, wind is in motion and it has not a mind of its own. IMHO...

I wish I could get serious about this, sorry Dave.

Gary




 
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(Login DrDaveDC)
71.134.241.44

Not mutually exclusive...

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July 10 2008, 4:57 PM 

"Seems to me that your 5Cs are a contradiction to the Gaseous State of Motion."

No more a contradiction than "settling your weight into a blow" is a contradiction to utilization of Marriage of Gravity. One is contained in the other as part of it. The 5C's are aspects of movement within the gaseous state that occur when that mode of motion is slinging around at it's best. Consider the handwriting example...

A right inward handsword can be tweaked to follow any number of paths....one, two, or three dimensionally. One and 2 dimensions offer fewer opportunities to compound multiple strikes into the one movement, and also offer fewer opportunities to load into alternateive -- but complementary -- orbits.

Right inward handsword can follow this path "_", or "/", or "(", or "C", or an upside-down/inverted "J" (like a shepards crook). Each passes different points in the path of the arc, each primes compound insert potentials differently, each sets up the space and weapon/target availabilities between us and the opponent differently. Each is effected by the expansion away from center, or the return to it (tip them on a 3D plane, instead of just a windowpane).

Gaseous particles don't just expand ad nauseum; they bounce off of surfaces into new trajectories. Since we aren't just bouncing particles, but have parts under anatomical contraint, we can dictate the tensions that determine the direction, speed, and timing of these bouncing particles (fists, elboes, knees, feet, etc.). Those forces that influence the behavior of particles released into the crucible atmosphere of colliding bodies can be concieved of, in part, within the 5 C's.

"To me I think that Gaseous State of Motion is an "Explosion" of instantaneous action or reaction that ignites and burst from the inside out that would be "RIPPING THROUGH" anything and everything through out the universe."

While putting rip on it, movement patterns change. Because we move differently in explosive cursive or shorthand, different tendencies apply than do in Block Print. The 5 C's provide a vocabulary starting point for discussing those tendencies. Terms aren't the thing itself; but they do let us have a dialogue about the thing by serving as a transient reference point.

"Your 5Cs Compound, Contract, Condense, Consolidate and Conjugate are principles that would best be served in the Outer Rim Concept, that teaches you to "CONFINE" defensive and offensive move of your arms and hands within the imaginary circle that circles the outer rim of your body. To me your 5Cs are based on "COMPACTING", like squashing and empty beer can."

Unless your arms fly off your body with the very first strike, the Outer Rim and Uni Patterns occupying it become agents of transportation for the paths used to conjugate timing and compound strikes. Contracting or condensing a circle within that sphere (the path of the arc) allows us to cock (or compund within) our next motion without loss of momentum or deviation from an optimal return or rebound orbit...even building momentum, via "slingshot" effects within joint-muscle tensions. Effects not available in block print movement.

"But then again, WTF do I know."

More than me, Bubba.

D.

 
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(Login KENPOJOE)
76.118.115.242

RE: 2 of the "5 C's"

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July 10 2008, 12:28 PM 

Hi folks!
an interesting thread!
Of the five "C"s, condense and contract seem to be the exact opposite of the basic premise that the gaseous stste entails. "Gas seeks it's own volume" is the statement that is the foundation of the gaseous state of motion. The ability to simultaneously strike multiple opponents in different directions is the primary example of this principle. Many of our brown belt techniques demonstrate this concept. The only reference that I can see within the system in reference to the 5 c's are perhaps "marrige of the rams" where you drive your opponents heads together in a "guided collision" after expanding both your limbs out simultaneously, thereby having an expansion/contraction effect. Is this what you are refering to in your post?
BTW,Bgile, if the "5 letter word" you were refering to was trejo, it was in bad taste and unwarranted.
Glad we are talking kenpo on kenponet!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 
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BGile
(Login BGile)
74.37.135.197

Trejo or Kenpo or BGile

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July 10 2008, 12:45 PM 

Your choice Joe. You can make a case, someway I figure.

Step in the big muddy and we are all game, right or not?

I have been given the dubious honor of GM myself, but hey lets try and find the diplomma or cert. on the web. LOL

Regards,
Gary

 
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BGile
(Login BGile)
74.37.135.197

Diplomma

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July 10 2008, 1:00 PM 

It is a term that has a double meaning in case you don't understand it Joe.
Here is some more information that might help to cairify some of the various discussions and the elusive Diplomma.

Here is a good link for all to read and probably understand when we talk about the various certs and D word.

http://www.blogcatalog.com/post-tag/fake%20diplomma/

Now the word "resume" comes into play, so shall we do that, or let it go.

Gary

 
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Dave Crouch, DC
(Login DrDaveDC)
71.134.241.44

Nope.

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July 10 2008, 4:35 PM 

That is not what I am referring to in my post. Short on time now; will clarify later.

D.

 
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Clark
(Login kenpoborg2)
75.16.94.84

Condensing and contracting the opponent,

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July 11 2008, 2:36 AM 

not always ourselves. But then you referenced Marriage of the rams, which is an example of contraction (the two heads in one place!) and expansion (the leg hooks).
Clark

 
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