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The "New Masters" of Kenpo

May 21 2009 at 12:39 AM
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  (Login Rich_Hale)
from IP address 216.175.105.45

 
Although this post is not entirely directed at Amen Rahh, it was inspired by the previous posts where Dr. Dave and Michael Miller spent a fair amount of time beating him up over his videos and apparent declaration of Kenpo mastership. Only the next few paragraphs are directed to Mr. Rahh. The balance is directed to anyone who fits the bill.

Mr. Rahh, you seem like a nice guy. You took the Internet beating like a man and responded to several shots at your competence, experience and performance with a certain degree of wit and a lot of personality. I respect that and would no doubt like you on a personal level.

In that I dont know you personally, I cant be a judge of your fighting ability or your overall knowledge of Kenpo. On the other hand I do know Dave (very well) as he is one of my best friends and have spend a fair amount of quality/painful time on the mat with him. I also know Michael Miller and shared the mat with him as well. Hes not only a good kid, but one hell of a martial artist. I can say that kid thing, because not only am I fifty seven years old, but Ive spent 37 of those years in the Ed Parker system of Kenpo.

Please understand that I am not trying to insult you when I say this, but you are in no position to argue with the likes of these two gentlemen. In fact you should thank them for their critique and pay the way for at least one of them visit your school and help you polish up on your Kenpo.

People sometimes take on certain titles and automatically expect everyone to respect and admire them as being masters of the art. If that doesnt happen right away, they sometimes put YouTube videos up expecting everyone to now suddenly become aware of their greatness. Unfortunately, it seldom goes down exactly the way they expect.

I know its quite the reality check when someone critiques your video saying things like; it lacked power, focus and form. They may even say the demonstrator seemed to have little understanding of Kenpo at all, let alone the Ed Parker System of Kenpo. Inflamed the standard issue comeback seems to be, Well lets see you post a video Mr. Smarty Pants! Its easy for you to criticize me, but wheres YOUR video? As if this childish rant will somehow make their video look better by comparing it to someone who (they are hoping) is even worse than they are.

Sorry guys, videos are a stand-alone representation of you and your students in action. Comparing yourself to someone who is hopefully worse than you doesnt make you any better, it just makes you happy.

To the credit and understanding of those who make videos, I can tell you that Mr. Parker hated both still photography and video. He once complained (for a lack of a better term) about a photographer and writer, doing a magazine article on him with plentiful text and photographs. He was excited to have the article come out, because it would graphically show his art of Kenpo to the mass readership of the magazine.

When the article came out Mr. Parker was pissed! He said, they not only photographed him from the wrong angles, making him look open and vulnerable, but they actually mixed up some of the photographs and text so the sequence didnt match.

I didnt relate this story to give everyone, who makes bad videos, a way out by saying the angles didnt properly represent the performance. I simply recognize the difficulty of producing quality videos.

In that we now recognize the difficulties involved, if you still want to post a video of you or your students performing Kenpo, prepare yourself for the criticisms that come along with it. And if you call it Ed Parkers Kenpo or not, if its a video of a modified Long Form 1 by any other name, it will still be judged as Long Form 1. The same holds true for anyone who changes Five Swords into Slashing Swords, Seven Swords, Swords of Death, etc. You can call your system Dark Star Kung Fu if you want, but if its an obvious knock-off of American Kenpo it will be judged as American Kenpo.

And when wishful comparison fails to establish you as being awesome, dont resort to being a master of your own system. Its too late for that. Youre already in an Ed Parker related forum and you have already posted a video declaring yourself to be one of us . . . only better . . . because youre a master and most of us are not. So, you cant now say youre the master of your own system anyway, so the comparison to Ed Parkers Kenpo is unjustified. And if youre the master of your own Kenpo system, what are you doing in this forum and why does your system look so much like a poorly modified version of Ed Parkers?

I have good friends in Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Shotokan, etc. and they would never think of posting a video of themselves on YouTube then coming here to discuss its merits, let alone defend it. So, if youre the master of your own system, please feel free to open a forum dedicated to you, your system and your followers. Im sure they would appreciate participating in a forum that is dedicated to the founder of their system as much as we enjoy participating in a forum that is dedicated to the founder of ours.

I know it could be rough getting started, but Mr. Parker had the guts to buck the system and go it on his own when he was an absolute nobody. He didnt dress up like Professor Chow and run around trying to convince everyone that he was teaching the same art as Professor Chow only better. No, he created his own system of Kenpo, called it American Kenpo, distinguishing it from his instructors art of Hawaiian Kenpo, and set out to make his own mark on the martial arts community.

This leads to the biggest issue I have with anyone who professes to be the master of their own system yet wears the same belt we do. An absolute tell-tale sign of Ed Parkers Kenpo is the very unique belt configurations worn by our 5th degree black belts and above. Mr. Parker created a bar and stripe configuration that is totally unique to our system. He did that to separate himself and his black belts from any and all other black belts, Kenpo or otherwise. Personally, when I see someone wearing a black belt with five inch red bars on the bottom and two one inch red stripes above the bars, I expect that person is a seventh degree black belt in the Ed Parker system of American Kenpo. The same holds true for two double 5 inch red bars, one above the other. By wearing that belt configuration the man is declaring himself to be a tenth degree black belt in the Ed Parker system of American Kenpo.

In case you think Im alone in this way of thinking, I suggest you walk into a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy wearing a black belt with a single red bar, on one side of the belt, covered with six to eight white stripes. Or you could walk into the Kodokan wearing the traditional red and white paneled belt of a Judo Master. In either case they too will have a certain expectation as to the knowledge and skill you are claiming by wearing those belts. Our belts and uniforms are representative of our system and our linage. If you dont want to be held to the curriculum of any given system, then dont wear the trappings of that system.

If you are the master of your own Kenpo system and youre tired of being criticized by a bunch of Ed Parker Kenpo instructors, then get out there and create an all new system of Kenpo with all new forms, sets and techniques.

And while youre at it, back up each technique with your own personal notes describing how each technique got its name, the theme of each technique - describing exactly what the technique is supposed to teach you, then add in several what-if scenarios for each technique and finish it up with a series of notes to help your students learn not only the difficult areas of each technique, but notes that will assist them in taking each technique from being primitive to mechanical and on to the spontaneous level of implementation.

When youre done with that put together an encyclopedia of a thousand, or so, terms that pertain specifically to your art - as an additional resource for your students, and then, time permitting, you can create a new and unique belt configuration to distinguish you and your students from any other Kenpo.

Maybe then you will be respected as a master of your own art instead of criticized as being a plagiarizer of someone elses.


    
This message has been edited by Rich_Hale from IP address 216.175.105.45 on May 21, 2009 12:40 AM


 
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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.192.78

Great post

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May 21 2009, 10:18 AM 

Rich,

It's nice to hear from you. I greatly appreciate your compliments, but it's people like you who make me who I am in the world of Kenpo. I learned a lot from you during the classes I took from you and the time I spent with you. You are a class act and a phenomenal Kenpoists who I love spending time with.

Anyway, again, great to hear from you, stud!

Michael Miller, CKF

 
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(Login BGile)
74.37.68.125

Re: Great post

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May 21 2009, 10:38 AM 

Yes it is, and one of the reasons I have his material he has written, and his thoughts...

Nice seeing it here Rich...

Regards,
Gary

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

Awesome post Mr.Hale

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May 21 2009, 11:48 AM 

...As a friend and as a person who knows Rich Hale his neutral position has always impressed me and above all he has merit in his content of words.
I enjoyed the dialogue about Ed Parker and our system of American Kenpo. Many truthful comments were refreshing to listen to as I read your post sir.
I too having known Ed Parker appreciated his teachings and his insights that he shared with manyof us. Let be 15 minutes or in hours Ed Parker was a caring man who loved people and enjoyed sharing his Principles and Concepts. But he is now gone for over 18 years and we must keep his teachings as given to us all to the next generation.
Rank is the number #1 problem in all Martial Art styles and Systems. Mr.Hebler once told me Black belts were the worst and all they wanted was more stuff, never being happy with what they already have.
I have recently changed my Belt from Black with Red Bars and stripes to a Red Belt with Black Bars and stripes. Ed Parker taught us everything has an opposite and a reverse and it is so true.
This was an idea I had about Lineage and Red stands for Bloodline and heart into the art versus show cases a ego.Besides in speaking to one of Mr.Pick's fellow brothers in the military Ranger Gary O'Neal he being of Indian culture and has a system called the "The Warrior Arts" he made a profound comment that Blood is thicker than water and family is a top priority in his way of thinking and it must be recognized, so he to has adapted this way of thinking and has designed his Belt the very same way.
Ed Parker did not copy Professor Chow but he did respect him and always mentioned this in his travels and reading litature.
Mr.Hale I admire your writing, thinking and above all your calm manners that I too get reminded about why being of older in wisdom is a cycle I can only be excited to reach too as being 47 years old can only wait for the next few years will allow me to duck more often than swing back as it is first thrown in public or on Forums.
Thank you for coming up and stepping up to the plate and making it a pleasant read!!!!!


TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login jbkenpo)
208.252.21.146

Respectfully disagree with the belt color change

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May 22 2009, 1:30 PM 

"Protect the sacred things.."

There is history and tradition tied to the Black Belt that goes far beyond your time in the martial arts. Why try to change that? Each rank was awarded to you. It isn't your place to swap it out for some other multi-color variation (your a whatever degree "Black" belt not "Red" belt).

It would seem that a true representation of opposite and reverse would be like your previous mentor, Mr. Planas who doesn't wear stripes, so he reversed the multi stripes to a plane Black Belt and then his time in rank has worn the belt to fray and show the white, representing the opposite of Black.

Add a patch, add a tattoo, etc...but leave the belt alone.

jb

www.ikenpo.com

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

You have the right to the opinion...but

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May 22 2009, 4:56 PM 

Huk used to wear his stripes while the "old man" was still around and if he chooses not to display them then that is his choice. Let me remind you of this...rank is not only given by instructors in this world, rank is also given to Seniors by their chosen following and that is a fact.
Even Mr.Parker had a teacher and I have photos of him wearing 7 stripes before the Bar was adopted in the system.
My respect and devotion is not judged by material items but it is by my actions as I do travel to share what it means to me as an enjoyable career from those who were my teachers both past and present. Thank you for your opinion and I respect your thinking but many have made changes both positive and negative since 1990.
I live a life of passing on the art to those who enjoy my company, ability to communicate and with honor.Let's leave his Legacy in the hands of the future generations by us all making it possible for them to learn as much as possible ...NOW!
I salute anyone who keeps the Flame Alive and Burning!!!!

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

OK

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May 23 2009, 7:33 AM 

You know, if you had created your own system, I would understand the belt change.

I don't know what Mr. Pick thinks about your new belt, but I'm hoping Larry would slap me back into last week if I did something so glaringly disrespectful to the rank he gave me.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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(Login BGile)
74.44.162.136

Not sure!

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May 23 2009, 8:18 AM 

Probably won't answer...But!

How about the Gi? Flair is fair, or not?
The Flame, has a nice Flare to it...Hmmm

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

Thank you Clyde for helping me make this a positive decision

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May 23 2009, 9:50 AM 

....I enjoy being different and take the freedom of choice as a compliment to my own Journey.
Yes, Mr.Pick has endorsed this as a acceptable maneuver and like he said, Ed Parker himself was known as a Rebel to due things a bit different than others.
Clyde, this also allows me the comfort to say we are far from being equal as 7th Degrees and this shows the immediate difference. Thank you for the idea and the reason beyond the obvious why this was carefully thought out and a decision made with dialogue with my teacher GM Michael Robert Pick...bottom line!
Everyone has their path to follow or the freedom to choose where they go or with whom they enjoy spending company with.
Mr.Parker has left us since 1990 and many changes have come and the art is very much alive and growing.
Choice is always a option in everyones Journey and I chose to grow by learning from many in the Kenpo Garden and keep that concept still going. I'm not a know it all,nor do I claim it But what I have to share is wisdom, education and insight as Ed Parker was very much in my life and I have a thing or 2 to offer to anyone who finds it of interest.
The IKKA patch is no longer the same and many have made changes in it as well since 1990. This allows us to identify ourselves as branches of his tree and we are very proud to say we had him and many of his First Generation students in our lives and appreciate their time and now must pass it on to the next generations who follow.
If my belt offends you then I invite the opportunity to come try and take it off....good luck as I will defend my Honor as it has been put through the test many of times and I can say with confidence the task is yet been accomplished...just a note of truth!
My art and my Journey is a happy road for me and I enjoy the many who invite me to share what I have to offer. I'm not offended by the comments, the stone throwing as this is nothing compared to my challenges I have encountered far greater than those who are Computer Warriors that talk tough,insult others and come off as the Kenpo Police Agents but never come out to play with the Big Boys.....I say step up and do something positive and change those that pollute our Society.
I think I have had more Little Dragons ages 3-7 in my school than you have had total in adults or any following for that matter as a note of interest. I think this speaks volumes of how popular one might be in the demand of instruction or the ability to communicate the art to the masses.
Happy to see you approve of my cloth change as this makes it even more so why it is important to have done....you can tote that in your Gun Case as well.
TCB...enjoy

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

OH really

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May 23 2009, 11:41 AM 

"If my belt offends you then I invite the opportunity to come try and take it off....good luck as I will defend my Honor as it has been put through the test many of times "....


OK, I'll certainly take you up on that. When the time arrives, remember, you offered. And when it happens, are you gonna run and call 911 like Bob Jones in Vegas did?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde


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Dave
(Login CountDante)
71.248.67.170

Video?

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May 23 2009, 1:04 PM 

Can you video this epic battle and place it on YouTube?

 
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Craig Tavis
(Login chtavis)
32.158.80.21

Only on pay per view!

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May 23 2009, 1:05 PM 

I'd buy pizza and have some friends over. Be hard to explain to the regular folk why Chuck Norris is beating the snot out of the StaPuft marshmallow man.
Ct

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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Phelan,Brian
(Login liv4kenpo)
74.186.168.69

I've got a feeling..

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May 23 2009, 2:10 PM 

that you have your money on the wrong contender. Why you would choose to insult Mr. Kelley and Chuck Norris is beyond me.

Brian Phelan

 
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Craig Tavis
(Login chtavis)
207.118.61.239

My apologies

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May 24 2009, 11:59 AM 

The Chuck Norris thing is an inside joke. Not funny for all. Mr. Kelley would certainly understand that should I not comment under these circumstances my friends and family would be looking for pods in the basement.
CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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(Login 6410382)
64.12.116.80

No Problem Craig... still laughing here...

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May 24 2009, 12:51 PM 

Enjoy the dialogue and the humor!!!!

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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Phelan,Brian
(Login liv4kenpo)
74.186.168.69

pods?

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May 24 2009, 9:31 PM 



Brian Phelan

 
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Craig Tavis
(Login chtavis)
75.106.192.58

Pop Culture?

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May 25 2009, 6:58 PM 

Egad Brian! You've never seen "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" in any of its incarnations?

Oh what a sad world we live in.

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

From the original

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May 25 2009, 7:26 PM 

[img][linked image][/img]

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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Dave
(Login CountDante)
71.248.67.170

Not StaPuft

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May 23 2009, 5:52 PM 

More like Bobby Hill.

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

You're killin' me here ROFL

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May 23 2009, 5:57 PM 

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]


Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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Dave
(Login CountDante)
71.248.67.170

LOL...

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May 23 2009, 6:15 PM 

That is too damned funny.

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

I'm rollin here Clyde...LMAO

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May 24 2009, 8:37 AM 

..see the difference here is I'm in a crowd of people who train, gather up and share things and your home sitting on a cactus branch and we can be sure your scratching your furr face and have no place to go but Kenponet....so please humor me more...this is awesome !!!

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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Dave
(Login CountDante)
71.248.67.170

Re: You're killin' me here ROFL

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May 23 2009, 7:03 PM 




[linked image]

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

Right Click, Save picture as

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May 23 2009, 7:17 PM 

Before it disappears. I can't wait to pass that around LOL.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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Clark
(Login kenpoborg2)
75.4.214.104

If the belt,

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May 24 2009, 3:05 PM 

is intended to be like steve spry's belt, then I understand everything. Wait, isn't that belt (red base black rank) a negative image of the EPAK version?

Okay, now we see where the negativity comes from, from the heart I guess.

Clark

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

.....Nice note of bravery! But sir some of us don't run or play by the rules

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May 23 2009, 1:51 PM 

....The comment of 911 to me is handled as any Terrorist act...."direct and head on"
Another Flush of the toilet handle where all the stink goes....TCB


TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

So

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May 23 2009, 2:15 PM 

Is that a yes or a no on the call 911 issue? Your writing skills leave one wondering exactly what you're saying.

Clyde

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(Login KimDahl)
85.81.47.1

911

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May 23 2009, 2:30 PM 

Maybe he will call 911, so You can come to the ER happy.gif after the fight. happy.gif

 
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Jaime Reyes
(Login jaimereyes)
71.104.232.117

I missed the outcome of

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May 23 2009, 2:48 PM 

the Troy Wilson challenge of Clyde awhile back. Anyone know how that turned out?

 
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(Login amenrahh)
94.246.126.105

Now that is a great post!

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May 24 2009, 3:01 PM 

Hope Miller and likeminded have read.

www.geocities.com/kkfkenpo
www.geocities.com/africansportkarate
kkfkenpo@yahoo.com

 
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(Login chtavis)
75.106.192.36

Bet I could.....

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May 25 2009, 7:00 PM 

Get your belt that is. I'd sneak it out of your gym bag whilst you were sitting out because of the altitude.

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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(Login seabrookJA)
70.27.56.225

Re: Respectfully disagree with the belt color change

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May 23 2009, 6:50 PM 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as is Mr. Kelley. Personally, I love the belt that Sean Kelley is now wearing, as those that know me, know that I am not so caught up in traditions, customs and rituals.

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

Yep

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May 23 2009, 6:55 PM 

You're not caught up in honor or loyalty either, other than who will throw the next rank at you.

Clyde

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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

Now that is topic of laughter....so what do you think Jamie??

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May 24 2009, 8:39 AM 

Speaking of Honor do you smell something that is really foul in hear...oh I know what it is!!!

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

They're called homonyms Sean

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May 24 2009, 8:43 AM 

Speaking of Honor do you smell something that is really foul in hear...oh I know what it is!!!

TCB....Sean Kelley


One of these days, you might figure them out, then again, maybe not.

Here- where I am at the moment

Hear- to have the capacity of apprehending sound

As for Jamie, all I see is this.

[img][linked image][/img]



Clyde

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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

As Ron White would say..."You Can't Fix Stupid" It is Permanent

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May 24 2009, 9:16 AM 

.. you can get a hair cut, get a face lift, tummy tuck, nose job but you can not fix stupid..it's permanent!!!!
Okay Scooter....


TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

You're right Sean

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May 24 2009, 10:04 AM 

Reallly Sean, you can't have a battle of wits with me, you're completely unarmed. I can tell more of a story with one picture than you could write in a lifetime. Example:


[img][linked image][/img]



Clyde

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Michael Miller
(Login millhouse23)
72.72.192.78

Really?

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May 24 2009, 12:30 PM 

That's funny, since he backed out of going for his 7th. Maybe you inhaled too much gun smoke lately, Clyde. Keep totin' brother!

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

The problem is

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May 24 2009, 1:02 PM 

His promotion was all setup secretly, hell, Frank didn't even know it was going to happen until someone exposed this shenanigan. Get back when you've got truth, honor, and integrity, until then, you're just doing the same thing as Jamie, and just as badly.

Going for some of that gunsmoke inhalation tomorrow morning, it's the smell of FREEDOM, and it's quite intoxicating.


Clyde

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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.192.78

Wrong, Clyde

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May 24 2009, 1:15 PM 

"Get back when you've got truth, honor, and integrity, until then, you're just doing the same thing as Jamie, and just as badly."

First of all I have truth, honor, and integrity. Who are you to judge my life when you have no clue what I do daily?

And what do you mean I am doing the same thing as Jamie, just as badly?

Again, Jamie never went for a 7th, and I don't give a rats you know what about rank. I think it is over-rated and there are way too many high ranking amateurs out there, and I don't want to be in their company. I would much rather be another Rich Hale, Tom Bleecker, Dr. Dave Crouch, and Wes Idol, where I stay lower in red and have much better skill, knowledge and standards than some of the red taped punks out there. I am proud to be a 4th and that is where I want to be for a very long time. In fact, I would love it if I was never ranked again. Mr. Kelley knows my feelings about this.

What's your issue, anyway, Clyde? Can't you just enjoy life and shoot your guns? You are too busy fussing over everybody else in the Kenpo world that you are caught up in a delusion of reality. When was the last time you were in Larry's school?


 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

You see Mike

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May 24 2009, 1:53 PM 

The flaw in your logic is, you just want me to shut up, but without providing a balance of opposing information. Sean flipped his belt to emphasize this, but yet, here you are attempting to shut out the contrast. Shame on you. I am the checks and balances to see the rush to mediocrity isn't too swift.

Look, you're young and impetuous, I know this, went through the same phase myself, took me a while to get through it as well. Remember the joke about the old bull and young bull, and running down the hill?

I don't know when I was in Larry's studio last, can you remember the last time you were there? Oh, that's right, NEVER!!!!!!



Clyde

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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.192.78

My response

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May 24 2009, 2:18 PM 

"The flaw in your logic is, you just want me to shut up, but without providing a balance of opposing information."

I never said I wanted you to shut up. I can provide more information than you are aware of, but you know it all.


"Look, you're young and impetuous,"

Impetuous does not describe me. Rational is a better term.

"went through the same phase myself, took me a while to get through it as well."

How did you get through it? What's better on the other side?

"I don't know when I was in Larry's studio last, can you remember the last time you were there? Oh, that's right, NEVER!!!!!!"

Didn't stop him from wanting to promote me, which I declined.

The difference between you and I is that I will always have a teacher that I train directly with on an average basis (at least 9 times per year) on top of my full-time teaching schedule. You can't even remember the last time you were in your teacher's studio.

Now, shame on you!!!

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

Again Mike

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May 24 2009, 3:35 PM 

You've lost objectivity in your strife, I've gained much.

Think about this for a minute, what title do I hold for my Rank? Senior Professor, not Senior Instructor as yourself. When someone becomes a Professor, do they continue their education in school, or do they branch out, continuing their research. and making new discoveries with the knowledge gained from said education?

Larry's insight has pushed me to far greater levels than I had ever hoped for or expected, and I stayed with him with honor and loyalty to garner the best from the best. As I branch out on my own, new discoveries await me with my own student's knowledge, a symbiosis of sorts, as they ask new questions about their own discoveries.

An example: Pete Landini in NY is responsible for the second M in ARMMing, he understood what I was teaching and expounded on it, as it should be.

Brian Hoff in NV is responsible for Preference in what dictates a technique (Environment, Target Availability, and Preference) in the same manner.

Anyway, one day you'll find that symbiosis yourself, as of yet, you're still in the nest with your mouth wide open looking to feed your hunger. Not like it's a bad thing though.

Clyde



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(Login bloodrage78)
75.70.133.2

Re: My response

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May 24 2009, 8:35 PM 

"The flaw in your logic is, you just want me to shut up, but without providing a balance of opposing information."

"I never said I wanted you to shut up. I can provide more information than you are aware of, but you know it all"
Clyde.
I wish you would shut the hell up, how the hell do find time to train when all do is sit in front of a computer jerkin the gerk? put some cloths on, stop playing with your self and go do some yard work.

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

Well, you know the old saying?

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May 24 2009, 9:15 PM 

Wish in one hand, poop in the other, see which one fills up first.

Clyde

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(Login bloodrage78)
75.70.133.2

Re: Well, you know the old saying?

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May 24 2009, 9:28 PM 

Thats the problem you got your hands all over self!

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

Project much?

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May 24 2009, 9:53 PM 

Seems you're infatuated with the idea of masturbation, any mother issues?

Clyde

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(Login bloodrage78)
75.70.133.2

Re: Project much?

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May 24 2009, 11:35 PM 

never meet her, but I am not saying masterbating is not a good thing but as much you are in front of the computer you probably got a braille keyboard, well goodnight and don't forget the lotion.

 
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(Login sumdumguy)
24.18.174.156

have to

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May 25 2009, 12:28 AM 

Ok, I have read most of this crap and then I saw this about Rich Hale etc... as much as I admire the desire to be in good company, just not sure that Wes Idol should be packed in with them? He is very skilled and knowledgeable to be sure, but I don't believe rank has ever been a problem... Now don't get all high and mighty on me, I have known Wes since he was a second brown... Haven't had the pleasure of work'n with him in the last few years,(mostly Political) but I still have a great deal of respect for him and his dedication to the art. I just don't think he should be in that group? Wes has not gone for more rank (I believe) out of respect for his Instructor as is the way it should be. Am I right Wes? I do however see your point and truly understand where you are coming from.

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

Well said Todd......I agree with the comment about Mr.Idol

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May 25 2009, 7:21 AM 

I have to say the Wed Idol I know is in a class of his own. He is humble,very intelligent as well as able to deal with many factors within the Martial Arts political arena.
Each time I get to know Mr.Idol I see a man of Honor,intelligence,humor and a side of him that allows us both the ability to become more appreciative of each others worth. I just enjoy his method of delivery and his tone of capturing his audience when he is teaching ...they listen and are touched by his ability to communicate.
If an apology is owed in behalf of any of my guys it will be given directly from me, but I assure you Mr.Miller was just thinking out loud with no dis-respect. I know first hand many of the CKF Black Belt are very honored to have met Wes through the lines of GM Michael Robert Pick who gave the introduction and it has been a awesome set of affairs since then.
Here we go again about rank identifying or questions of....never a pleasant topic at the end of the day other than for the new Black Belts up and coming I will always have a smile for.Let's keep those new kids on the block who are becoming tomorrow's Black Belt's as well as the future Torch Carriers alive and growing!

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login sumdumguy)
24.18.174.156

Misunderstanding

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May 25 2009, 11:53 AM 

From my point of view, I see that people who get so caught up in the rank and political issues have mostly lost site of the "giving back to the arts" part of being a middle/high ranked black belt. I was told by my Teacher (whom I respect more then words can say) that "when we become the teacher/instructor it is no longer about us, it's about giving back to the art" I believe that most try to do this but are some what clouded by the glory and the power as they elevate themselves or are elevated by their instructors and piers to higher ranks and responsibility. As sad as that is, it's refreshing to see some people like Wes Idol, Michael Billings, and others who will remain loyal regardless of offers for rank and glory from outside venues/organizations. After all, what's in a belt, cotton, poly-something or another, blood, sweat, and experience. To bad it can't fight!!!

Keep your Knees Bent,
Todd Durgan

 
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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.192.78

I understand

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May 25 2009, 5:06 PM 

Sir,

I put Wes Idol in the list of people who I know are great Kenpoists who have been around a long time and are not above 5th black. That was the point I was trying to make. I did not say they were or were not all equal in skill and knowledge, just wanted show how much I respect every one of them and that I want to be in that class, rather than the upper ranked amateur class that Kenpo sees so much of.

I know all three of these fine fellows (Mr. Idol, Mr. Hale and Dr. Crouch). I have a good relationship with all of them. They are all great in my view.

 
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(Login sumdumguy)
24.18.174.156

Understood

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May 26 2009, 12:36 AM 

Please don't call me sir, I have done nothing to earn your respect or that title from you, thanks.
I fully understand what your intent was for putting the three names you did on the posting. Please understand that I meant no disrespect to Wes either by saying what I said. I don't know (personally) Mr. Bleeker or Rich Hale for that matter. I have only spoken with Rich on the phone (Hi Rich!!!) and gotten most of my knowledge about Rich's earlier years from one of his prior Teachers. Sorry, I am rambling, to the point. I was really pointing out that you put a not so senior guy, (though he deserves some respect) in with two guys that have been around for a heck of a long time. I just didn't say it very clearly, thus the reason I don't post on this forum much. I think Mr. Kelly got it? but maybe I should have just not said anything??? And just to clarify, I apologize for any misunderstanding or disrespect anyone may think I was intending, I wasn't...

I get a great kick out of the mindless banter that is thrown back and forth on this forum, some true some not, mostly though just a good laugh at the end of a hard day. happy.gif

Good Journey,
Todd Durgan

 
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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.192.78

Okay

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May 26 2009, 10:05 AM 

I agree with you. Mr. Bleecker and Mr. Hale are much more senior, but I know that you knew my point. I just wanted to give my fingers an extra workout, so I typed a clarification.

Anyway, salute!

 
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Dave Crouch, DC
(Login DrDaveDC)
71.134.226.244

You are correct, Mr. Durgan.

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May 26 2009, 10:12 AM 

I do not belong in the above-said esteemed company.

Thursday will mark my 38th anniversary in kenpo, with 35 of those in the Parker system or it's splinter-lineage offshoots. And I STILL don't feel like I own they system. Every time I step out onto the mat, I find new things to dial in on and work at. I know I can always count on Rich to peel away more scales from my kenpo eyes every time we train, rubbing it in that I still have so much to learn, and truly border on constantly sucking.

I love this art. I obsess about it almost constantly. And when I'm not reading about it, thinking about it, or working on it, I'm anxiously looking forward to the next time I can. And just when I think I might be making some headway towards ownership, something new comes along and rears its head, reminding me that I don't know squat. And I find something new everywhere, all the time: A phone call with Mr. Conatser or Mr. Chapel will have me furiously taking copious notes; a trip through Rich's Journal will have me planning out my training schedule weeks in advance (the search function rocks); a cruise of these sites will have me targeting some specific set of skills the next time I'm on the mat, or looking something up in the written materials to get my head wrapped around an idea. My guess is that, if I called any of these guys to share my "new" profound insights, I'd get a resounding "well, duh" from them, cuz they already knew. And have for years. What can I say; I'm the slow kid on the bus.

Moreover, I am a bastard child in the kenpo family tree, adopted into better bloodlines only toward the middle of my trip. As a result, there are a lot of things I missed out on that Mr. Hale and Mr. Idol had the opportunity to grow up with, so to speak. In much of that, I envy them, and all the others who got to be center-stage in the early and middle years. But not all of it. Some of the things I had a chance to get exposed to along the way, I would not change for the world; some of my bastard lineage profs had some very cool things to teach, even if it wasn't blue-blood EPAK. As one of my buddies put it, "They might not know Long 8, but they know how to use a knife, and have fought with them in LA, or Hawaii, or the Phillipines..."

I also got to bounce for almost 15 years. Gave me some pretty cool insights into what skills pay out the highest percentages. But I also got varicose veins from standing around so many hours a week, made my back worse for it, and got more dings in the head than I think Rich would have gotten...he's too 'ornry, stubborn, and competitive to have let himself get in some of the stoopid places I've found myself.

I am just a student. More dilligent than some, not as dilligent as others; more experienced than some, not as experienced as others; might be the more experienced student in the room on some occasions, notsomuch on others. I believe Rich to be ahead of me in all of these things. I don't know Mr. Idol all that well, but some of the oldsters I know speak highly of him, and I'd bet they don't speak as highly of me.

Stepping to the left to make room for my betters,

D.

 
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(Login sumdumguy)
24.18.174.156

Although

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May 26 2009, 1:22 PM 

I appreciate your honesty and humility, I do hope you realize that nothing I said was directed at you? I believe you where just sharing? I too have not been in "kenpoland" for the good stuff but don't know if that would really change anything other then the people I could then say I trained with... some good some not so good I am sure. I too have spent countless hours studying and researching or just plain working on something, but then that's how we grow right! I don't think that Mr. Hale would say "duh" but if he is anything like my teacher he would agree and nod with a smile as you try to enlighten him with your new found bit of trivia about this technique or that form. It's ok though because I believe that the Martial Arts are more about self-discovery and education than what "we" know v.s. what "they" know... After all, isn't that how it all started? My favorite saying, "it's like am/pm, too much good stuff".

Good Journey,

Todd Durgan

 
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(Login DrDaveDC)
71.134.226.244

Sorry...

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May 26 2009, 3:28 PM 

I'm a bit "cognitively challenged" this morning. Woke up at 4:00 AM with a crabby back, and am STILL awake and ailin'. Somehow, in my brain-fart, I thought I was being referenced in the "people who don;t belong in that list", and agreed whole-heartedly. Then the verbal diarhea took over...

 
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(Login sumdumguy)
24.18.174.156

You were..

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May 26 2009, 4:33 PM 

Well how about that, you were referenced as one that Mr. Miller respects for his ???... I just didn't mention your name because my small little mind was also not firing on all parts of the one cylinder that it has.... I have a fifteen year old daughter, my cylinder is burning up... I am sure you are a fine upstanding gentlemen with much to offer, and it sounds like you have been around for a while... There that's the honorable mention....

Good Journey,
Todd

 
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john
(Login jdslip)
71.225.253.179

Getting this back on original topic

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May 23 2009, 3:51 PM 

from Rich Hale's original post:

An absolute tell-tale sign of Ed Parkers Kenpo is the very unique belt configurations worn by our 5th degree black belts and above. Mr. Parker created a bar and stripe configuration that is totally unique to our system. He did that to separate himself and his black belts from any and all other black belts, Kenpo or otherwise. Personally, when I see someone wearing a black belt with five inch red bars on the bottom and two one inch red stripes above the bars, I expect that person is a seventh degree black belt in the Ed Parker system of American Kenpo.

.....

Our belts and uniforms are representative of our system and our linage. If you dont want to be held to the curriculum of any given system, then dont wear the trappings of that system.

.....


 
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(Login Rich_Hale)
216.70.172.7

Just to clarify

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May 23 2009, 6:39 PM 

I'm not sure if this post is to say I disagree with Sean or not, but just in case I will clarify.

I have no problem with anyone who would like to change their personal look belt of otherwise. One day at the Internationals I saw a guy, with an interesting and colorful belt, having his picture taken with Mr. Parker. It struck me as odd, because I had never seen a belt like it before and everything else he was wearing was right out of the IKKA handbook.

Later, I asked Mr. Parker what the story was with that guy wearing the strange belt, while at the same time the IKKA patch. He simply said something like, I dont know; it was his belt and my patch. So, is there anything you would like to know about the patch?

I also remember when Vic LeRoux got his 5th. He didnt like the bar and instead added one more strip for a total of 5 stripes. Mr. Parker didnt seem to have a problem with that either.

In the early 70s Mr. Parker asked Rich Callahan to run his Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate Studio in Colton, CA. Rich was a 3rd black in the International Kajukenbo Association at the time and wore a black belt with a single read line running lengthwise round the edges. As Rich learned the Parker system, from Huk, he continued to wear his same belt. Eventually Rich gave me that very belt and I wore it to the point of it falling apart then I had another one made in the same style and continue to wear it to this day.

I do have a shiny new 5th with the bar on it, but I expect it will still be shiny and new some years from now as I usually wear either a plain black belt or the one with a single stripe.

Here is where I strongly agree with Clyde. If I were to go back on to Larrys mat I would not think of wearing anything other than (what I consider) a traditional Kenpo belt, or maybe a plain black belt as those were very common on Larrys mat when I studied with him. Like Clyde, I dont think Larry would appreciate one of his guys swapping black for red and red for black. But thats Larry not Mike Pick, so if Mr. Pick is okay with Sean wearing a red belt I dont see why anybody else should care.

I of course stand by my original statements. I you choose to wear Ed Parker style belt, I will naturally expect you to be a student of Ed Parkers Kenpo.

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

Funny story

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May 23 2009, 6:54 PM 

And why you and I agree with how Larry views the belts.

Many years ago, I came into the studio early, put on my uniform(Red and Blue top and bottom) and saw a purple belt in the dressing room. Well, I never got to wear a purple belt, I was a green belt when I got into Kenpo and Vic told me to wear it and I worked up to that belt. So, here I am trotting out with this purple belt (I was a 4th Black at the time) on to look in the full length mirrors and told Larry (who was in the office) how cool the color combo looked. He said "yea,yea, did you forget your belt? I have one for you right here, put it on". "No, I didn't forget it, I'll go put mine on right now". I learned my lesson pretty quick that day, and never wore anything but what he's given me from that day on.

I know a couple of guys were fooling around with his 10th belt one day, trying it on and so forth. Didn't go real well when he caught them in the act LOL.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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Rich Hale
(Login Rich_Hale)
216.175.105.45

Okay Clyde me too . . .

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May 23 2009, 9:01 PM 

I was in the Colton studio one night, by myself, and decided to try on Rich Callahan's black belt. I was an orange belt at the time.

I put the belt on took a few cool looks at my self in the looking glass when the building creaked with the cooling night air.

I damn near tore that belt in half gettig it off my waist! I never wore it again until he gave it to me about 5 years later.

I now wonder how many of my own student's have worn my belts.

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

Hey Rich...here is a True Story

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May 24 2009, 9:33 AM 

One of my Guys was carrying Mr.Parker's uniform and Belt and it was in my office as he would go there to suit up. Well old "Rerun" was in the office wrapping Mr.Parker's belt on and here walks in Ed Parker....he says to "Run" can I help you with something? He damn well turned all colors of the rainbow!
Ed Parker laughed and said I think your not quite ready for that yet so go ahead and take it off. I found out later he did this as I was in the other room. But I can share this Ed Parker had a controlled personality and because he knew him I'm sure it is the only reason he did not get angry.
Ed Parker endorsed change and actually encouraged it as I first hand witnessed. As a matter of fact in the 80's I wore the pull over Gi tops that were designed by a student of Billy Blanks back in the day. Ed Parker liked it and even had me order a pair of Gi Pants to his size as he knew the woman was into custom designs and was well known to make custom Team uniforms for many of the well known teams out there.
If we were to be critical about Belts and other issues of concern we would have to go back in time when many either never wore his (IKKA) patch or they designed their own and this was even when he was alive.
This topic is great and as I spoke to Mr.Pick earlier this morning he commented...well at least you speak your peace and keep things interesting. He also commented he recalls Ed Parker being the one to break many boundaries in the day!!!!

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

If I recall Clyde Pink was and has been your favorite color

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May 24 2009, 8:45 AM 

...I remember this very well and how it was wonderful to see you in that shade of clarity!!!!
I Enjoy the Humor...

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login ClydeT)
98.165.199.227

Pink

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May 24 2009, 8:48 AM 

Yep, I have a proclivity to pink. I suppose it's the same reason you like brown.

Clyde

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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

Don't get it....not into anything Brown But I guess you had your mind else where

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May 24 2009, 9:19 AM 

.....LMAO...now that's funny I don't care what anyones says!!!! Watch your nose and be careful not to get that stuff on there....

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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(Login SCChuck)
24.211.100.244

Pink Belts

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May 25 2009, 6:41 AM 

Seems like Superfoot said something about pink belts once but I just can't exactly remember what it was. I think he was in Florida at the time but I can't get my arms around the story.

Take it out on the heavy bag,

Chuck Peterson
peterson_charlie@hotmail.com


 
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(Login BGile)
74.37.129.16

Bill Wallace

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May 25 2009, 11:14 AM 

He also mentioned that Joe Lewis was the best thats ever been! His time was to early, he said! Not true, Joe is still around, has a great Manual... Updated all the time.

Read the mention about Joe in a good book if you are inclined! "The Masters Speak", Jose Fraguas...

Gary


 
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(Login 6410382)
205.188.116.80

Thanks Rich and yes Mr.Pick is Okay with it

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May 24 2009, 9:02 AM 

...as a matter of fact we spoke candidly about it and why it was a choice on my behalf. This has nothing to do with my Kenpo, devotion, or anything else just a visible change for many personal reasons and Mr.Pick knows all of those reasons.
Thank you for the input and I appreciate the comments and consider you a good friend even if we at times have debate,difference of opinion but most of the time we share our thoughts with mutual respect and I am honored for having you as a friend!
It's just a belt like many others that sit in my office. I love the opinion from those who have not looked in the mirror so deep and point fingers at things they have no idea what or why things are done. If we want to be technical let's start with the many off shoot Kenpo patches including the one the IKKA people re-did....everything must change in due time as we are a progressive system.

TCB....Sean Kelley

 
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