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Let's move on - Blinding Sacrifice

November 5 2010 at 11:06 AM
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  (Login millhouse23)
from IP address 72.72.220.129

 
Any of you cats think you can pull that puppy off on the streets?

Why or why not?

 
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Ray Albrechtsen
(Login KenpoRay)
216.150.210.34

Re: Let's move on - Blinding Sacrifice

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November 5 2010, 11:30 AM 

I was just thinking about that tech last night (since it's featured in the latest black belt mag). I like the tech, but am concerned about the possibility of attacker's ability/inability to collapse his arms inward/downward as the initial pokes are launched.

 
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(Login Inkspill)
216.231.158.26

the article...

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November 5 2010, 4:11 PM 

was it just me, I don't have it handy, but did the person applying the technique leave his groin open to the attacker in the beginning?

I'd have to look again at the grocery store but thought you might have it handy there.

 
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Ray Albrechtsen
(Login KenpoRay)
74.65.109.245

Re: the article...

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November 5 2010, 4:57 PM 

I didn't read the article, I saw the cover of the mag. I learned the tech in the late 1980's. My teacher taught it with the preface of twin, simultaneous ridge hands to the lower ribs. I didn't care for the ridge hands and have since taught the preface as twin, simultaneous leopard punches to lower ribs.

 
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Lobsang
(Login kenpo58)
71.175.108.120

All I can say is..

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November 5 2010, 3:16 PM 

Meow..purr purr..Meow..Hiss..scratch...Meow..

 
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Chosen One
(Login MasterPain)
74.7.214.197

It's pretty!

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November 5 2010, 4:29 PM 

It is a pretty technique when done sharply.
The guys on the Casa de Kenpo youtube clip do it nicely - fast and clean (btw, this is not an endorsement).

But, I generally don't like techniques that involve symmetrical striking (i.e. using both arms simultaneously to do the same movement).

I am a proponent of alternating strikes so that I always have a hand near my face for protection.

In the technique, I don't like the movement after the initial double eye poke - windmilling arms to grab groin - I just don't think that the opponents arms can be pinned securely. Also, I don't like the third movement which places both arms behind the opponent to strike kidneys - it leaves the entire front of my body open.

lastly, based on real fights, I don't think the opponent will stand there and wait for all the strikes to hit their mark.

My two cents.
Respectfully,
The Chosen One

 
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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.220.129

Here's the thing...

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November 5 2010, 5:18 PM 

...the technique is not good for reality. First off there is a reason part of the name is "Sacrifice." There are no checks and you put yourself in a vulnerable position more than once. Not to mention, do you really think you are going to pull off a double palm strike to the groin? The guy would have to have gonads the size of watermelons to pull that off. wink.gif

So, I agree with your post.

 
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(Login kenposoldier01)
68.73.165.195

reply to here's the thing

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November 5 2010, 11:18 PM 

Did you learn anything from this technique?

This technique reminds me of two techniques found in the Yang Family Traditional Long Form...

 
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Michael Miller
(Login millhouse23)
72.72.220.129

Yes

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November 6 2010, 8:32 AM 

I learned a lot from it, just like every other technique.

 
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Chosen One
(Login MasterPain)
71.108.42.40

Yes.....

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November 7 2010, 11:57 AM 

I also learned a lot from the technique.

I learned what NOT to do when someone tries to choke me. happy.gif

The benefit of the technique is that it requires you to make some physical movements that you would normally not make. And, you could take those movements and string them together into a different technique that would be more efficient - I'm trying to see the glass half full happy.gif

Respectfully, but said sarcastically,
The Chosen One


    
This message has been edited by MasterPain from IP address 71.108.42.40 on Nov 7, 2010 12:03 PM


 
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(Login michaeledward)
71.181.55.200

Re: It's pretty!

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November 6 2010, 12:30 PM 

>>> I don't like the movement after the initial double eye poke - windmilling arms to grab groin - I just don't think that the opponents arms can be pinned securely. Also, I don't like the third movement which places both arms behind the opponent to strike kidneys - it leaves the entire front of my body open.
My thoughts as I read this paragraph ...

I'm not even attempting to pin the opponent's arms. I just clear them, and healpalm / claw the groin. I may end up in a bear hug, arms pinned (Thrusting prongs, anyone) but, I have his manhood in my hands. That's like sending a pawn against a knight. Also, I imagine that dual kidney strikes should effect some reaction to eliminate that bear hug, arms pinned.

If the entire front of my body is open, I am not working this technique at the correct range. The front of my body should be in contact with the front of his body.

 
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Bob White
(Login whitekenpo)
69.231.220.18

Eddie Downey

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November 5 2010, 5:36 PM 

Blinding Sacrifice is not my favorite technique but if someone were to make it work it would be Eddie Downey. He is extremely strong as well as very fast. He has a fighting background so he has the clarity under pressure to make techniques work. Before we became close friends I watched him test for his 5th degree in Baltimore during the 90`s. He is a real kenpo blackbelt who can take it as well as dish it out. I have a lot of respect for his skill level.
Bob White

 
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(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Re: Let's move on - Blinding Sacrifice

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November 5 2010, 6:11 PM 

Now this is a technique I would prefix with a kick to the groin .....if I was on the receiving end, the defender is wide open for it!!!!!

I would rather give them my wallet, my Wife, my grandkids....even bend over, rather than attempt to pull that off in the mystical streets!!!!!

Rank it second on my least favorite techniqes list....Snakes of Wisdom ranks first...

Talk about setting patterns...

Just my opinion

Rich

 
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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.220.129

Thank you

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November 6 2010, 8:33 AM 

"I would rather give them my wallet, my Wife, my grandkids....even bend over, rather than attempt to pull that off in the mystical streets!!!!!"

My point exactly.

 
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(Login kenposoldier01)
68.73.165.195

Which one of your teachers

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November 6 2010, 11:35 AM 

Which one of your teachers told you that you have to do this technique exactly in the sequence and angles shown on the street?

In fact I dont want to know who told you such foolishness, my advice is to find a better teacher

 
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(Login ClydeT)
68.106.13.195

LOL

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November 6 2010, 12:57 PM 

A man who knows his art is not afraid to deviate from it when necessary. I use my pistol to get back to my rifle, doesn't mean the pistol is an inferior weapon, it's simply the context with which it's used.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Re: LOL

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November 6 2010, 1:32 PM 

Thanks Clyde, you validated my point....not afraid to deviate from it!!!!!

Would you use empty hands over your pistol or rifle????????

Rich

 
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(Login ClydeT)
68.106.13.195

HUH?

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November 6 2010, 1:39 PM 

You have to know it to deviate from it. And yes, I would prefer to use my hands and feet as opposed to my pistol. That way, I can watch/feel them suffer up close and personal knowing I have the will and means to take it even further when necessary LOL.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

I would prefer not to use it at all....

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November 6 2010, 1:43 PM 

But that's not my reality.....

Who knows it better those that have used it or those that think they can use it when the time comes? A lot more than just physical skill and theory are involved.

If you have a gun and still have to use hands and feet??????

Ego gets in the way sometimes!!!!

Rich

 
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(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Re: HUH?

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November 6 2010, 1:49 PM 

"A man who knows his art is not afraid to deviate from it when necessary"......

I deviate all the time.....but what do I know, LOL!!!!!

If you don't believe I know it does not affect my abbility to use it, only your ability to defend against it!!!!!


Rich

 
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(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Experience is also my teacher......

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November 6 2010, 1:36 PM 

Sharing it is where I fall short.....selling it to the masses for business is something I find foolish....I give it away.

What price do you put on your own life.....do you know, or do you have to ask your Instructor...for a fee of course, LOL!!!!!

Rich

 
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(Login DanPuleo)
65.8.225.253

Re: Which one of your teachers

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November 6 2010, 1:57 PM 

If I were to combine everything I've been taught about Blinding Sacrifice, we began with the "how to" - weapons, targets, power principles, etc. Then we were asked what might give you some issues in actual application, upon which, we were given an explanation (might not be the same as yours, but it holds up to logic) as to why some of the more questionable moves are there in terms of how they bring forth principles which have yet to be demonstrated elsewhere in the system. Along the way, my instructor has brought out how parts of Blinding Sacrifice can be attached to other techniques or relative positions with less "sacrifice".

My question is, how do you go about teaching this technique that is so different. What do you give your student that I have omitted?

Thanks,
Dan Puleo


    
This message has been edited by DanPuleo from IP address 65.8.225.253 on Nov 6, 2010 2:01 PM


 
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Richard Post
(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Re: Which one of your teachers

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November 7 2010, 10:06 AM 

My question is, how do you go about teaching this technique that is so different. What do you give your student that I have omitted?

An alternative way out and how to defend against it, not to mention perspective......also the entire system not just orange belt techniques plus extensions......

If you have used it in a technique line, that is perspective, if you have used it for real, that is a different perspective, if you believe that you can pull it off on anyone including Mr. Parker....you are sadly mistaken. that is delusion!!!!

How can a technique be complete and mastered if you only view it from one side, one perspective?????? Talk about "PARTIAL ARTIST", LOL!!!!

"All the answers are in Kenpo", yea, I've heard that.....however all the questions, all the counters and all the possibilities lie elsewhere, you just need to know where to look!!!!!

If it is just about sound principles then these techniques, just because a Genius created them,should work on everybody all the time right?????

Part of the time? 25% of the time?

No chance for anyone to defend against it?????

Then it becomes "no thats not what I said," we can graft into other techniques......

How long and how many countered strikes are you going to use before you choose to leave the kill zone??????? Standing toe to toe trading blows....I did that before learning Kenpo,how does that equate to sophisticated????

I don't have a problem with the techniques, I don't have a problem that you love a technique....I have a problem when you (in General) believe because you know the same technique, learned from the same source as a million other Kenpo guys and Gals, that you don't think you can pull it off on anyone, anytime and will never need a back up plan.....

I am not telling you to learn other Martial arts, I am not telling you that the techniques don't have merit, I am not telling you how sophisticated to be......

I am suggesting that there is more to the techniques than most have considered!!!!

No one has countered what I said I could do...just the usual Double talk, you're stupid, you don't know Kenpo BS.....

Consider what you believe to be true at your present rank and grade....then consider what will change 10 years from now?

If you are still doing techniques the same......then you might want to consider what you have really learned and if you are wasting your time.

I am not selling anything, I am suggestiong how to make adjustments to what you already know......

Question is why are you (in general) so defensive about looking deeper into what you believe to be true??????


Rich



 
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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.220.129

That's my point

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November 6 2010, 2:08 PM 

"Which one of your teachers told you that you have to do this technique exactly in the sequence and angles shown on the street?"

None. That's exactly what I am saying. If you read my posts you will find that I said I laugh when people think they can pull all the techniques off as written. Obviously, you can pull pieces of techniques off, or variations of techniques off. In this technique the first move is all you need.

 
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Craig Tavis
(Login chtavis)
97.113.253.232

Jackie Chan

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November 6 2010, 10:51 AM 

Could pull that off. I still don't understand why folks ignore the idea that practicing a technique in it's entirety is for context not efficacy. Learn the techniques, learn to attack or defend from anywhere in the pattern with a multitude of weapons. The techniques do exactly what they were designed to do.

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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(Login ClydeT)
68.106.13.195

You cheated

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November 6 2010, 12:55 PM 

You are my student LOL.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

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Craig Tavis
(Login chtavis)
97.113.253.232

Life....

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November 6 2010, 3:40 PM 

is an open book test. I didn't cheat, I listened.

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Re: Jackie Chan

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November 8 2010, 3:07 AM 

That's what Brown Belts are for....Target practice!!!!

What happens when we set PATTERNS???????

Still waiting for the expert answer about what happened to the 5th Sword!!!!
I could tell you but then I would have to charge you, LOL!!!!

It's not that some of us have ignored the idea, it's that over time and grade we finally came to a conclusion....Keep practicing, you will too...one day!!!!

Rich


 
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Craig Tavis
(Login chtavis)
97.113.253.232

Why on earth....

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November 9 2010, 10:29 PM 

Would you come to a conclusion?

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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Richard Post
(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Why on Earth.....

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November 10 2010, 3:30 AM 

Wouldn't you come to a conclusion....an opinion arrived at through the process of reasoning....over time.

Different than being told what your opinion is or should be....

"American" Kenpo....the name itself implies freedom of thought!!!!!

Rich


 
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(Login millhouse23)
72.72.220.129

You got it

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November 16 2010, 5:48 PM 

Thank you, my friend.

 
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Bode
(Login Cabaal)
157.127.155.214

Ugh yes

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November 8 2010, 12:42 PM 

This is why I don't get into the discussion about techniques and if they work. A technique is like an excerpt from an encyclopedia. It contains information which you need to put into practice. When you do you don't regurgitate the encyclopedia. You pull information from it and make it useful in THAT MOMENT. Otherwise we'd all be automatons.
Yeesh.

 
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Richard Post
(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Re: Ugh yes

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November 9 2010, 3:03 AM 

What pulled you in this time?

Rich

 
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(Login chtavis)
97.113.253.232

I'm not...

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November 9 2010, 10:32 PM 

Really entering the discussion. Just wondering out loud why it seems that a lot of folks in Kenpo didn't get "wax on, wax off"

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller

 
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(Login knpo22)
207.200.116.6

Re: I'm not...

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November 10 2010, 3:32 AM 

Or understand "Drum Technique"?

Rich

 
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(Login mvkarate)
24.61.225.146

yup

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November 7 2010, 7:29 PM 


 
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