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veganpornuserdeletions

February 11 2005 at 8:05 PM
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Deletions by Wes.

#1) apology hanging
Is that all you did. Amazing.

#2) Wes the Censor
You wear your pc crown well.

You have deleted a post by dragonfly.

There...do you feel like a complete man now? Congratulations.

This message has been edited by dragonfly99 on Apr 5, 2005 10:26 AM
This message has been edited by dragonfly99 on Mar 17, 2005 2:33 PM
This message has been edited by dragonfly99 on Feb 14, 2005 9:49 AM
This message has been edited by dragonfly99 on Feb 12, 2005 5:13 PM

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cleaned up post

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February 11 2005, 8:58 PM

Spamonymous:

<<< Such dogmatism is unlikely to convert many...>>>

Examples please. This is a convenient distortion, one with no basis in fact. and you only seek to spread disinformation here all while dragging the omnivore party line. Only about ~2% of the general populaion is veggie at all, so the odds of "converting" someone is rather small to begin with. i'm surprised you missed this succinct fact.

please don't keep saying that you have a point, as you don't competently or proficiently address the answers and rebuttals provided by others. In fact you don't even try. The only one preaching here is you, which is strange because you haven't put anything on the table yet, in the way of hard facts and realword data. You complain about getting preached at, even though your only justification here is to pontificate your tired and useless obnoxious pov and pretend that only you have something to say. i have seen this before.

And as for your run of the mill blanket generalizations. They stink, and to a high degree of certainty. You march these pointless and hopeless 'see through' non-attacks out as only pretended fodder for continued shameless moral attacks against vegans and others and all that they stand for.

<<< When I get preached at, even as I agree with most of the reasoning, I have the urge to eat the bloodiest steak I can find at that moment to spite the holier-than-thou BS that usually comes from missionary zeal.>>>

Then you must be of low moral fibre weak constitution and woefully insensitive to the abundant suffering on this planet. or else you have courageously put your head in the sand and there it remains. But you would prefer to put the suffering on your plate, and treat it like a side dish, instead of recognizing that the problem is really inside your head. Being pc does have its limits you know. i suppose you consider it beneficial not to put any thought into this common social defect.

If you can't listen to other's points of views and consider their beliefs then you do not have an open mind NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY. Hiding behind the pc banner of freedom of speech is another laughable excuse one that always leads nowhere.

You say dogma when in fact you are only spewing pointless and irrelevant omnivore propaganda.

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free speech isn't

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February 14 2005, 2:20 PM

>>> One way of gauging it, though, is the response of the person you're talking to<<<

This seems rather like an agenda of some sort. Except if the other person is a pretentious law abiding troll or just plain some sort of an idiot. So it's the response of somebody else and not the content that's important? i think not. That's not a very popular viewpoint in my book and i think that the idea is a ridiculous rehashing of message board friction causes.

You 'foolproof' agendas ideas and agenda-driven ideals are bound to fail, for many reasons, compassion, truth, honesty, humane beliefs, experience, etc, especially given the prerequisite that it seems a popular notion to pander to those that inhibit free speech concerns and the exchange of ideas. This is nonsense.

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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March 20 2005, 11:34 AM

TheRealPamela

censored harmless posts from:
http://www.veganporn.com/1052274335.html#newcomment

----------------------------------------------------------
haven't quite figured it out yet
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-03-19 00:21:00 EST

Welcome to the real world TheRealPamela. To become homeless multiply by 10,000.

----------------------------------------------------------

Re: haven't quite figured it out yet
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-03-20 00:12:30 EST
Score: -4 (4 votes)

<blockquote>Anonymous, eat me. No one mentioned homelessness. I doubt you are homeless because I haven't seen a homeless person with internet connection, so this isn't a compassion for the homeless issue for you. You are just being a twatbag.</blockquote>

Well said TRP. But in fact I am homeless. You must be the only twatbag here, and a self-righteous one at that and because you have finally ran into your ery first middleclass asshole/prick boss you seem so, like amazed. And you seem SO confused!! Get off of it. And shitcan the stereotypes sister, along with the crystal ball. They're a perfect fit.

[Reply]

Re: haven't quite figured it out yet
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-03-20 00:16:48 EST
Score: -2 (2 votes)
Wes you're such a "man". LOL Now be a good boy and go down to the corner and fetch me a dime bag.

[Reply]

Employee 1: �Jimmy Dean omelets are made from real eggs, �cause that�s how you make an omelet.�
Employee 2: �You can take a Jimmy Dean wrap anywhere, except places they don�t allow Jimmy Dean wraps, and that�s no-where you want to be.�
Here�s where it gets really disgustingly unfortunate.
Employee 3: �The eggs come from real chickens, the cheese comes from real cows, and the sausage comes from Jimmy Dean.�

i will try to resurrect my comments when i have the time.

This message has been edited by dragonfly99 on Mar 24, 2005 5:03 PM

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Earth Child of Peace
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Please explain

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April 4 2005, 7:54 AM

Hi, I am a bit confused. Are these your postings that were censored from that site? I think that is just a symbol of authoritarianism that spread way too far as it usually does. Do they feel that the posters are harassing you or viceversa? Where can I post censor free?

ECoP

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(Login dragonfly99)
Forum Owner

yeah veganporn seems to have lost it's edge

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April 4 2005, 11:12 AM

Hi, I am a bit confused. Are these your postings that were censored from that site?

Yes, in fact i have more.

I think that is just a symbol of authoritarianism that spread way too far as it usually does.

Agreed. i guess that i have finally seen through that rather thick veil that you mention.

Do they feel that the posters are harassing you or viceversa?

It goes both ways, i am more often than not on the defensive, so i become a convenient target just for trying to elucidate my various points of view. For the most part these are individual user deletions from individual journal threads, but there seems to be some rather heavy-handed censorship issues going on. In other words, from my POV it appears that the board owner seems to like to play favorites and sometimes grandstands the issues.

Where can I post censor free?

Here, or at http://glassonions.proboards46.com or vegtalk.org. i know what you mean, that was the original purpose of this board, as i had been censored and banned at the old VeggiesUnite! message board. Email me if you would like to start another vegan/veggie message board i have recently come across better "free" boards, with ads but without the annoying and continuous popups such as this one.

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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April 26 2005, 9:37 AM

WELL well WELL...
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-04-25 17:04:34 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Do you have any goats for sale TRP? Just askin'..

[Reply]
------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Uh Pamela DE
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-04-26 12:29:31 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
You can have safe sex with a goat- guaranteed!

[Reply]
------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.veganporn.com/1052274660.html#newcomment

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Anonymous
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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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April 26 2005, 3:50 PM

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May 19 2005, 5:36 PM

Re: For Example
Posted by dragonfly Profile has photo! @ 2005-05-19 20:30:50 EST

>>>what will the majority of people think once KFC concedes..? <<<

Concede to what? Nonsensical sentence fragment. Or science fiction. Take your pick. Notice how NoisyDave has started to build a small world where there are only winners and losers and nothing in between. Again hiding behind sensationalist distortions, non sequiturs and faulty definitions. Straight from the Talking Heads.

>>>Will they think "i'm not going to eat there" or "it's okay to eat there now that they treat the chickens better"?<<<

Again, more nonsensical dreck and shaky armchair ruminations. Again notice the smallish dimensions of NoisyDaves hyperunrealistic and illogical world built of limited and pre-ordained consumerist choices.

For the record NoisyDave, most people could choose not to eat there, to actually think before their next meal, and to not eat the flesh of horribly abused and horrifically slaughtered animals altogether. Problem solved.

>>>I'd bet on the latter.<<<

Both choices are illogical and nonsensical, so this doesn't surprise me.

>>>I've heard people on the street say this about McD and BK while protesting.<<<

Irrelvant distortion. What people? What kind of people? Where were these people?Why were they there? Were they veggies? What else did they have to say? Come one NoisyDave, stop acting like you have something to say, and that what YOU think really has meaning. For shame!

>>>The message should be 'KFC Kills Chickens, stop eating chickens', not 'stop eating at KFC (and eat them somewhere else)'.<<<

As if. You don't write their media campaigns and for a good reason.

>>>You know??<<<

Yeah, what about you.

>>>Say what you mean.<<<

Huh??

Don't you mean duck and run, duck and run, duck and run..?

Except for when you conveniently run off and hide, when you are directly challenged on your nonsensical and self-serving line of anti-PeTa horseplop.

Of course you do. Then, like clockwork, only to cry foul when dragonfly comes a-knockin'.

>>>This type of welfarism<<<

Still haven't defined what you mean by welfarism, and why it is so bad. False Premise.

>>>is cyclic, and almost never leads to liberation.<<<

Example please. Be specific. After all what PeTa is doing is if anything breaking new ground in the struggle for AR and a more compassionate world.

>>>What happens once everyone is using bigger cages..?<<<

We will worry about that when the time comes. The issue here is animal cruelty, not how hard PeTa has to work to reduce animal suffering.

>>>We gonna campaign for even bigger cages?<<<

i know i will. You can just sit there and cry.

>>>At what point do we tell our actual message: "killing animals is wrong"?<<<

Which is what PeTa is all about. Like i said, why don't you adopt some of the countless thousands of unwanted and neglected animals that PeTa takes in each year, and tries to adopt out? Or if you really believed that they you would sell your sorry ass racing bicycles and give the money to PeTa, so they could do a better job. But you won't, because NoisyDave YOU ARE A BIG FRAUD. Period.

This message has been edited by dragonfly99 on May 19, 2005 7:43 PM

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July 4 2005, 5:03 AM

Re: freedom of speech??
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-04 08:02:24 EST

Are you a leading "expert" on what it takes to be a coward, wiggle?

Looks like it to me.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275326.html#newcomment

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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July 4 2005, 5:42 AM

I have met Dragonfly!
Posted by sisyphus @ 2005-01-12 12:53:48 EST
He introduced himself to me last night at a veggie event, and I have to say he is a true gentlemen. The opportunity to say "sorry for all that online bullshit" and meet a fellow VPP face to face doesn't happen often and made me feel good. The ironic thing is it gave me a chance to feel mature (which admittedly doesn't happen very often, because I am indeed an immature petty bastard) even though dragonfly was the one who was mature enough and bold enough to take the first step, and for that he has my respect.

I may not always agree with him, but in my book dragonfly is a stand up guy. (that didn't rhyme intentionally, that's just who I am: the "v" to the "eat'n" to the "p" to the "imp")

You know what the problem with this online shit is? It lacks tonality, so you can never gain the human side of a conversation. The written word (especially when abbreviated and misspelled) can often be taken many different ways. I think most of the time these online yelling matches would turn into friendly conversation if done in person.

Here's to online peace love and understanding, and to dragonfly for being the bigger man.
Witty Repartee - Add Yours
Posted by bobdmighty @ 2005-01-12 13:01:15 EST

your momma.

[Reply]
Posted by TheRealPamela @ 2005-01-12 14:43:56 EST

I think things people (of course myself included)type/say on here tend to be perceived as much coarser than intended. Same with IM'ing people. "That's fantastic" can be taken as sarcasm when it's not meant to. "Jerk" can actually be kiding. I do forget these things sometimes, as I am sure most people do.

[Reply]
Posted by Triddle @ 2005-01-12 16:22:17 EST

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July 5 2005, 7:54 AM

living in his doublestandardland
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-04 10:32:25 EST

beforewisdom why are you hiding behind something as meaningless, unobjective and in any case, poorly defined, as what you casually refer to as a moot point? You're not making any sense.

But... to answer your lopsided and hopelessly antagonistic query... having a username does not in any way guarantee the validity and the perceptions of overall quality of user responses or replies.

That is the key..

Nor does having a cherished username automatically exclude abusive, nor does it eliminate abrasive non-sensical replies nor does it in anyway prevent active trolling.

That notion is absurd on the face of it..

OTOH neither does an anonymous post guarantee abuse, trolling and off-topic headgames. To suggest as much is insane.

Besides having a username is just like attaching a label to an anonymous identity anyway, in fact that is what makes a persona work. It's actually yet another layer of anonymity. Another way to obscure the truth.

Why in the world are there such a thing as anonymous remailers? Your mischevious and misguided suggestions make the barest amount of sense.

You must be insecure. Open your eyes. Your perceptions are flawed.

[Reply]

Re: living in his doublestandardland
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-04 10:47:09 EST

Nor does having a cherished username automatically exclude abusive, nor does it eliminate abrasive non-sensical replies nor does it in anyway prevent active trolling.

should have been:

Nor does having a cherished username automatically exclude abusive responses, nor does it eliminate abrasive non-sensical replies, nor does it in anyway prevent active trolling.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275326.html#newcomment

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Anonymous
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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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July 9 2005, 1:15 PM

firstest with the mostest
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-07-09 16:14:18 EST
Score: 0 (0 votes)
Wes you said it best:

Speaking of Orange:

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Banana.

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Banana.

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Orange.

Orange who?

Orange juice glad I didn't say banana again?

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Anonymous
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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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July 13 2005, 2:46 PM

so let me get this straight
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-13 17:43:01 EST

No that was not funny. It was moronic and obscenely childish.

Wiggle you're a piece of work.

So, one "coward" can go anon to make a point, and you applaud his actions, but others mysteriously aren't allowed to, or are sheepishly criticized for it, business as usual. But you also go out of your way to complain about others, in fact this was the whole thrust of this thread. Wiggle you have contradicted yourself again - the usual. Your cherished and nonsensical rightwing "see I care" elitist NIMBYism is getting the better of you.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275326.html#newcomment

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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July 13 2005, 3:21 PM

Re: Didn't this guy say he was an artist??
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-13 18:19:42 EST

What's this??

Curses seems to be upset with me...or something..

Yeah, that SURE make alot of sense.

Just like this entire thread.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275369.html#newcomment

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Anonymous
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July 19 2005, 8:17 PM

Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-19 23:14:51 EST

You can't just expect the world to change for the better, even KFC, even in small steps. Even if it makes sense.

The "first" thing wrong in an otherwise airtight vegan world.

You can't just change things in bits and pieces. It just doesn't seem to work. For reasons unknown.

We live under the umbrella of an out of control anthropocentric corporatocracy. Where money is the main religion. For future generations knowlegde will be hard to come by, right now it is a challenging quest.

The value of life will diminish along with a general lower standard of living...You can count on it.

When this sucker cracks, it's going to be big.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275471.html#newcomment

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Anonymous
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You've hit a new low Herman Thrust

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July 20 2005, 11:56 AM

��

This message has been edited by dragonfly99 on Jul 21, 2005 5:27 AM

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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July 20 2005, 12:31 PM

Re: jeez, thats the compleat dfly there
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-20 03:27:28 EST

Well let's see... i'm guessing that by the tone and substance of the last post i was being too harsh.

All things being equal i agree..

So let me state this another way..

Know thy enemy.

Re: jeez, thats the compleat dfly there
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-20 03:32:43 EST

The previous post was addressed to the first anonymous.

>>>When I was young and foolish I believed that bits and pieces did not work. Now that I am older, I believe that it does. Did I somehow become younger and foolisher? Or maybe just the latter.<<<

Would you tell that to an average citizen in war torn Iraq, a person who is in jail his only "crime" being that he is Black or a man of color? or would you say that to one of the countless and severely repressed dirt poor citizens who resides in one of the resource rich countries in the Third World, who suffer under a puppet-Democracy installed and maintained by the good old United States?

Nice try.

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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July 20 2005, 12:43 PM

Re: dfly here
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-20 02:34:41 EST

>>>i think bits and pieces is [at least] a good start<<<

Yeah. WE all do. When we are young and foolish..

Look... I didn't say that there is anything wrong with attacking a problem in bits and pieces..and doing the best that you can.

Just that it doesn't really seem to work.. or be effective.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275471.html

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Anonymous
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more deletions by TRP

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July 22 2005, 2:46 PM

treat 'em like a baby - Part 1
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-22 17:44:09 EST

That's good. but who the fuck are you to post something that has already been posted? And be nice to your dog lady.

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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July 23 2005, 10:42 AM

Re: This place is starting to grate on me
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-23 13:39:38 EST

>>>Why should I have to spend hours looking for what-I-do-not-know when Tasha supposedly has specific knowledge of something. She needs to back up her claim. It's her claim, so I am not obligated to prove her assertion for her. Not only is this a basis for common law but is also how adults operate in the real world. <<<

And i agree 100% percent, if not more, with that statement Sardonicus. So either two things are possible here: either this is not the real world, or some of these PETA-bashing vegans are acting like indolent and misinformed children. My money is on the latter.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275484.html>

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July 31 2005, 3:45 PM

'ethical' veganism DOES have its limits i suppose
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-07-31 18:38:04 EST
Score: 0 (0 votes)
Dave, koala has been making "PeTA" (read: the speciesist dumbo acronym) jokes his stock in trade for many years now on Xtian, liberal bashing, and Religious Right Nutcase Forums. i think that you and him ought to get along quite well.

i can give you his email if you like.

LOL

[Reply]

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275615.html

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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August 2 2005, 1:47 PM

Always promoting the Meatie line, he is...
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-08-02 12:28:03 EST
Score: +1 (1 vote)
>>>what are you gonna do now? Go live in cave? I don't think i've seen any rodeo people living in caves. There you go.<<<

Omigawwd!!! If it isn't Mr. "vegan for ethical reasons" himself, playing his cherished role of the Vegan Police!! i mean really Dave, this hypocritical spouting of yours is getting rather silly.. And of course, as if on cue, you again are self-righteously coming here only to bash others, others with a viewpoint, others who seem to "get" it.

And as always, looking down your nose AT OTHER VEGANS and spouting his typical condescenion in the form of circular illogical nonsense.

What are you going to do, somehow magically start making sense, in addition to somehow becoming at least remotely functionally literate? The mind boggles, it does.

Dave, you are one of the biggest "frauds" i have ever met. It's TOO BAD that you don't have a conscience... or a real life. But you knew that already.

And you can honestly foget about honor and integrity. don't even go there.

If you can't see how a "cowgirrlyboy hat" represents the unthinkable cruelties of rodeos and other popular "Western" myths of selfish and unrealisitic independence, including animal cruelty, of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS (!), then it is more than obvious that you indeed must subscribe to that myth, which is obscene and which is deplorable. Somehow you seem impervious to the fact that it is also a like, a convenient rewrite, a slap in the face of history and the good nature of all oppressed people everywhere.

Let's not forget your useless and childish campaign of PETA bashing, you really proved yourself there son. Add it all up and what do you get? Obviously you are not what you pretend to be, which is a thoughtful and conscientious vegan.

Are you fuckin' paying attention koala? Maybe you could learn something here.

--dragonfly

[Reply]

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275631.html#newcomment

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GhoulNation: Katrina survivors refuse to leave companion critters

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September 11 2005, 4:53 AM

Re: Really nasty
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-09-09 23:39:17 EST
Score: 0 (0 votes)
Louisiana it is apparently huge animals then providing cats cleaning dogs feeding then providing shipped else where is apparently huge animals safely but I now heres a vet school in Louisiana it is a funny this stuff than me jump in. Jeff wrong again. I still possible but good they can get. There is taking dogs feeding. If I can get. The vet school in all the animals it can get. The vets and feeding the campus. Also alot of people are these and then providing cats cleaning walking I was wrong again. I walking again. Jeff these animals these animals this being then properate treatment. Many are but I will then properate these where being up animals it can find feeding the and these where anings animals taking thing. I still possible animals it is this a vets jump in as possible being walking again alot of people and on all these aning Now know how help or if animals it cats are treatmenteering dogs feedings feeding up and it cats just a funny are to send it is these where happroviding then propel doh.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052275912.html

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Something's screwy here

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December 31 2006, 4:02 PM

Trial period for disabling "Nobodys" from this site?
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-11 13:55:39 EST
You are trying to put a price tag on human communication. In fact you are boring me and the rest of the good citizens who take the time from their day to come to this site. I agree with Sardonicus, this is a supremely stupid idea. Start your own site xBFx, you are starting to irritate me.
This is your entry. You can edit it or delete it if you wish.
Witty Repartee - Add Yours
Posted by love freq @ 2006-12-11 14:37:01 EST

I cant believe what just happened before wisdom DELETED MY POST in the 'trial period for disabling anonymous' posts thread.

i only expressed my views on the subject and oops i forgot to sign in to VP ..but i put my name at the bottom as always!!so cant imagine thats why i was deleted??just one of those things.

i cant imagine what it must be like to talk to xBFWx in conversation in real life id probably get my mouth taped up half way through conversation or slapped on the face for going very slightly off topic. conversations should flow and go where people want, dont y think?

what you need xBFx is your own little forum where you can invite friends and email them your rule book! and let the public VP area be free and without your constraints!

all i said in my message (before i was deleted) was that i have never been an anonymous poster and was looking forward to being one one day for a laugh or whatever reason. and that throughout time anonymous people have painted pictures on walls and written words in the sand ..y know being artistic/ and expressing themselves and never felt the need to sign the message or painting. what matters is that people can express themselves without being shot at or killed.

you warped my frequencies today I shall do my best not to pass this on to people around me.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 4EqkEBMviPZ7ZUxtyNpPTg
Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-11 14:38:20 EST

Score: 0 (2 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
You guys seriously need to get away from your PC and ask yourself if you are reacting like adults

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: Xi2nYIVLz8M6THjHVf0yew
Posted by xbeforewisdomx @ 2006-12-11 14:44:44 EST

Hey LF;

I wrote in my thread that I would only accept non-anonymous posts that were on topic, mature and polite.

The posts I deleted of yours looked off the wall, like you were making a game out of the conversation.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: Xi2nYIVLz8M6THjHVf0yew
Re:
Posted by love freq @ 2006-12-11 14:52:35 EST

bfw deleted my views AGAIN! strangitude!

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 4EqkEBMviPZ7ZUxtyNpPTg
Re:
Posted by Bigjamesone @ 2006-12-11 14:54:59 EST

i had three posts removed:)
one as me (taking the piss)
one as anon (taking the piss)
one as notsobigjames (taking the piss)

hmmmm!

just proved a point that you can delete whatever you want on your own post, so why disable anon?

i hate removing peoples posts, i asked for an opinion, so hey! you get what you ask for!

for this posts; anon... you don't know what others peoples lives are like to go around punting such shite advice.
this is about freedom of expression and how far it goes, what are the limits and responsibilities of these freedoms and what would it be like if they were changed.

its only a message board, so what?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 63TjPol12joG4wt2SlN9FA
Re:
Posted by xbeforewisdomx @ 2006-12-11 15:00:53 EST

just proved a point that you can delete whatever you want on your own post, so why disable anon?

You can only delete posts from threads you yourself start.

If you post in someone else's thread you have to put up with reading any obnoxious replies from APs that the original poster doesn't care to delete. This was the case ( the second one in just a few days ) with flutterby this morning that inspired me to ask Jason to consider the issue.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: Xi2nYIVLz8M6THjHVf0yew
Re:
Posted by love freq @ 2006-12-11 15:15:26 EST

hello

I just forgot to sign in to VP thats all. but i did sign my name i wanted too! there was no secretiveness intended. So you knew it was me.

I made a valid point about how through the history of time people have always been able to express themselves without having to sign their name to everything.

it was just so strange that i wasn't signed in to say thoughs things at that time! almost like i ment it on purpose. but i didnt swear and didnt type aggressively, i was just making a valid on topic point.

sometimes people have things they need to express without giving their identity away not that they may have something bad or horrible to say, just it may be slightly embarrassing or they don't want to take credit for effort, or perhaps something really needs to be said for the good of the community but there is a dictator/police force on the look out to stop them from doing good.

but people can always get a new tag anyway.

freqx

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 4EqkEBMviPZ7ZUxtyNpPTg
Re:
Posted by love freq @ 2006-12-11 15:28:50 EST

sorry i didn't mean to be dispolite in the original message,just thought it on topic to point out.thats all, can we talk about sprouts now? pwease i like sprouts. yum yum,haha, only kiddin.

bwyyeee
lfx

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 4EqkEBMviPZ7ZUxtyNpPTg
Posted by xbeforewisdomx @ 2006-12-11 15:32:10 EST

Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-11 13:55:39 EST
Start your own site xBFx, you are starting to irritate me.

Why should I care if I don't even know who you are and you don't even have enough guts to put a unique anonymous identifier behind your message.

Immature coward

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: Xi2nYIVLz8M6THjHVf0yew
Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-11 16:28:53 EST

Score: -1 (5 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Is that you xbfwx? Grow up.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: XAJsKtqiiAK+JZR8nKyaKg
why not just use the filter you made, bw
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-11 18:55:12 EST

Score: -1 (7 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Name calling is a sign of rage

When things deterriorate I like to blame the oldest...

strike two...

if you were really morally outraged by anon posts you would filter them out to save your precious whatever, wes too, but you seem more intent on squelching opposing views before others see that you've been disagreed with again.

Take a lesson from graham and magic stones all you old fogies, wes, woubit. they don't try to impose rule, aren't in your face and probably sickened by the level of bickering you bring this place to. If i thought you represented older vegans i would quit you are so miserably intolerant, perhaps an enema might help.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: OOJFHRDKj4E89JDjFBjtOw
Re: why not just use the filter you made, bw
Posted by xbeforewisdomx @ 2006-12-11 19:47:10 EST

Grow up.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: JMjSmcLwKub+s2u6etLC2A
Re: why not just use the filter you made, bw
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-12-11 20:03:16 EST

And by "grow up", you mean spending time writing filters to eliminate messages from people you typically disagree with, and always lobbying HT to change how he runs the site so you don't have to see anything that you don't like. And deleting lots and lots of postings from the sound of things.

And by "grow up", you mean adding "x" to your name, so you can appear hip, young and trendy. Normally I try to avoid clashing with you but you kind of asked for this one. Nothing personal, but it is funny. If you want to be hip and trendy I suggest cranking Weird Al's "White N Nerdy" really loudly... from your bike. I do, and man, I'm getting bitches and ho's like you wouldn't believe!

Anyway, people will just create additional bogus accounts like your xx account. I don't think it will make anybody happier in the long run. Least of all you. I've always said that if HT wants people to own their statements, post the IP address along with their post. Don't know if it's a good idea, but it would be closer to the effect you seem to want.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: K0QM+Q7rJB93oD3KHfBHFw
Re: why not just use the filter you made, bw
Posted by Dagda Samildanc @ 2006-12-11 21:28:12 EST

lov freq, i've been wanted to say this for a long time...
your posts all seem like "I <333333 puppies! they save the world!LOL omg!!!!" to me... jibberish. i honestly wonder sometimes if you have a drug problem, and your posts are rarely relevant.

anonymous posts make it easier for someone feel like they don't have to be accountable for being an asshole. registering is a deterrant.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: FaoF7WR01aKr6KvSQhSVHg
Re: why not just use the filter you made, bw
Posted by Falling @ 2006-12-11 21:35:05 EST

Love freq's post are the best part of VP. Seriously. They keep me coming back.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: /xXfCcqgnyY4bKlUpTmr4A
Was that necessary?
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-11 21:41:12 EST

Dagda, freq is a little silly (I'm sure he knows that) and obviously a very sensitive young person.

You on the other hand continue to show that you are extremely insensitive and in fact, downright mean.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw
Re: Was that necessary?
Posted by xbeforewisdomx @ 2006-12-11 21:49:14 EST

Maybe she is just fed up

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: JMjSmcLwKub+s2u6etLC2A
Re: Was that necessary?
Posted by Dagda Samildanc @ 2006-12-11 21:49:46 EST

I was just about to say that I had a threshold for shit, and it's been passed here.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: FaoF7WR01aKr6KvSQhSVHg
Re: Was that necessary?
Posted by frank language @ 2006-12-11 21:56:03 EST

No one's forcing you to be here.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: /bRkwLW1k6+LC7vBqkhGTw
Re: Was that necessary?
Posted by love freq @ 2006-12-11 22:11:32 EST

thank you falling, wes,

yes i am a little silly at times haha but I'm very clean, all I consume is veggies,rice ,fruit,rice milk/water,air, i think thats all? i cleaned my house today too.

I used to watch allot of british comedy shows so hmm ..yes ...that could be the reason you don't get me.

i'm so disappointed , after I made that VP competition trophy for you too! it took me all of an hour to create that animation dag nam it!

you said that i said :"I <333333 puppies! they save the world!LOL omg

>
hey did i say that? .. maybe puppies could save the world? if they ate all the humans!

your more confusing than me!! heehee , gosh what a silly post.

freqsx

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 4EqkEBMviPZ7ZUxtyNpPTg
Good Point
Posted by xbeforewisdomx @ 2006-12-11 22:11:57 EST

Good point. Nobody is forcing her to be here or you or me.

I enjoy having conversations with a number of people on this site, but there definitely seem to be cycles that are full of adolescents posting, people with nothing better to do to the extent that they have turned mean, sarcastic and/or juvenile.

I will see you all in a few days.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: JMjSmcLwKub+s2u6etLC2A
Re: Was that necessary?
Posted by t f lee @ 2006-12-11 22:12:13 EST

freq's posts are almost always relevant, unlike mine, and he usually offers a refreshing new perspective.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: +ZUsWeAc76fExTLJvQ6XzA
Re: Was that necessary?
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-12-11 23:35:59 EST

I think I agree with Wes on that summary of Love Freq and Dagda. I like Love Freq. He lightens the mood around this place. People always take things so darn seriously.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: K0QM+Q7rJB93oD3KHfBHFw
Re: Was that necessary?
Posted by Darky @ 2006-12-12 04:02:33 EST

Yeah I like Love Freq!

And I take offence at BeforeWisdom's post about everyone being adolescent and evil. I am adolescent, am I always going around making trouble?

I have no reason to hate Beforewisdom, I don't agree with most of the things he is saying in this and the other thread, but I can't bother arguing.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: B9/4SW6bCt+JdrNZsEO8lA
Posted by love freq @ 2006-12-12 09:04:06 EST

Thank you again, everybody and sorry bfw, i can be a naughtyfreq once in a while or seem angry but its usually because i love something so much i get upset. earth,animals,children, some adults(haha) and erm...oh yes..VP!!

i must refresh i am still an anonymous virgin, if i have been in the past i either sign my name or repost. maybe once or twice i just forgot to 'sign in' but i have never used the function for attack ...but boy have i wanted too! haha

also i may have sounded pretty mean in this thread. I was just upset for being deleted. I didn't say anything bad. i just felt like i had been censored by a newspaper editor to keep the topic one sided.(but really i think it was because i honestly forgot to 'sign in'-but i did sign my name tho. seems rather funny now)

As well i never did quite get the hang of text. Man there is so much missing in text, there are no dynamics, the passion of the authors voice, the tender tones and extreme distortion of vocal cords,unless people create there own emotion /dynamics/feel in their head which can be very dangerous in text conversation because the text reads one sided to how the reader feels. If i feel sad or low the text I read created by others will appear slanted this way. Or if i feel cheated by the author the text i read my seem sarcastic or make me feel paranoid that people are talking in riddles when really they may be genuine and on my side.?? with voice you can pick this up sooooo much better.

with text,either I put in my own dynamics and emotion in my head or i read in one boring robotic mono tone. I cant do that I'd got nuts.

my twyping is pretty bad at times anyway. i sometimes use fullstops....... as a type of ticker tape method to induce timing to space between words(people generally use the ,comer,but that is again left to the reader to create timing, imagine a piece of music score without a time signature, tempo and with all the notes bungled together with a single space between like letters on paper. Either with only a fullstop or comer to aid timing and only two levels of dynamics CAPITALS and lowercase.

it wouldn't be music it would just be limited information.

sometimes,its not what you say.....its how you say it.

bring on the smiley's

!! hahaha but not the ones that say HHEEELllloooooo! I hate those smiley's they nearly put me off the whole concept of text expression.

(actually i may start a thread on this.) see you in there anonymous!)

bwyyee,
freqsx

hang on!!>... ive gone off topic!!....Oooh nNooOo.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 4EqkEBMviPZ7ZUxtyNpPTg
Re:
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-12-12 09:49:04 EST

[[i just felt like i had been censored by a newspaper editor to keep the topic one sided.(but really i think it was because i honestly forgot to 'sign in'-but i did sign my name tho. seems rather funny now]]

You were right about the censorship. Your signed your name, but he used his arbitrary rule about only logged postings as an excuse to eliminate an opposing viewpoint. Which is consistant with a personality who would bother to write filters to eliminate whole postings based upon who the author is. I guess his head might explode if he encounters differing viewpoints.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: K0QM+Q7rJB93oD3KHfBHFw
Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-12 10:07:40 EST

Score: 0 (2 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
lets not be so harsh eh? we've all got our views and we all get on, in one way or another! the reason i like this site is that there are no sheep. its seems to me that all the posters here have a unique attitude. its a compliment to the site so many dispirit people get on a make this place what it is. xBWx being passionate about what he feels is cool is his right. we can all say things in the heat of the moment, we can all throw our rattle out our pram, we can all regret things we've said or wish we said them differently. we can not expect to be universally liked nor can we expect to be loved by all, the fact we get on, knowing this, is a credit to us all.

bigJames...

i'm anon 'cos i'm not on my machine! just thought i'd say:)

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: P8L9IH3qlPz1/LIeRBjMKw
Re:
Posted by love freq @ 2006-12-12 10:25:20 EST

"the reason i like this site is that there are no sheep. its seems to me that all the posters here have a unique attitude."

>

here here. (that means=I agree)

man,ive been so off the rails on this site before, bfw isnt the only one.

thank god..erm..i mean 'Jason' for this site otherwise who would listen???

freqx

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 4EqkEBMviPZ7ZUxtyNpPTg
I don't believe it
Posted by flutterby @ 2006-12-12 10:37:14 EST

I think I agree with Wes on that summary of Love Freq and Dagda. I like Love Freq. He lightens the mood around this place. People always take things so darn seriously.

I agree with you, Sardonicus!

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: EtKsotvBkBvWpxbKEQI01Q
Re: I don't believe it
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-12-12 10:44:56 EST

The irony Big James, is that if you had put your posting^ in BW's thread, he would have deleted it just because you weren't logged in. Even though you signed it. And if he didn't delete it, it would show that his deletion of Love Freq's post was due to his opposing viewpoint, not the technicality of not being logged in. I suggest you post in BW's thread while not being logged in, but sign your name. Depending on whether he deletes or not, we'll learn a lot about BW's real motivations.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: K0QM+Q7rJB93oD3KHfBHFw
Posted by Chanterelle @ 2006-12-12 15:30:31 EST

Don't nobody say nothin' bad about lovefreq! His posts make my day!

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: zBCVTefYPYEcomrZEC0hlw
Or not
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-12-13 03:33:19 EST

Never get in the middle of a heated debate, and never say anything harsh, extreme, or controversial. Like Love Freq, I live by those rues.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: K0QM+Q7rJB93oD3KHfBHFw
I rue the day
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-12-13 03:34:01 EST

You know, his typo business is getting out of hand with me.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: K0QM+Q7rJB93oD3KHfBHFw
Re: I rue the day
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-13 13:42:11 EST

'his typo business'?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw
Re: I rue the day
Posted by Chanterelle @ 2006-12-13 14:02:25 EST

So, are we all going to complain now about each others' posts? Can't argue, can't not argue, can't offend, can't not offend, heaven forbid you make a typo. Let's just go back to our poo-flingin' ways and let whomever wants to filter things out to do so. There's always the 'off' button.

Re our own threads... is deletion 'censorship'? We can take down the whole thread too if we want to... If we have control over our own threads, why shouldn't we use it?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: zBCVTefYPYEcomrZEC0hlw
Re: I rue the day
Posted by Bigjamesone @ 2006-12-13 14:23:46 EST

spot on Chanterelle:)

if we can't say what we mean how can we mean what we say!

(not sure where the original quote comes from, but i borrowed if off Babylon 5!!!!)

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 63TjPol12joG4wt2SlN9FA
Re: I rue the day
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-13 14:48:58 EST

<< So, are we all going to complain now about each others' posts?>>

What's this 'we' business? You never have complained about other people's posts.

But the rest of us? Yeah, we'll probably keep on complaining.

But if we say what we 'really' think, sometimes we get an e-mail from Jason

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw
Re: I ruin the day
Posted by Chanterelle @ 2006-12-13 15:18:28 EST

<<You never have complained about other people's posts.>>

Sure I have. I've even deleted one or two. And I've taken down two of my own threads.

Complaining is part and parcel of forum participation. But... Are there some things that absolutely should not be allowed? And how to decide?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: zBCVTefYPYEcomrZEC0hlw
Re: I ruin the day
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-13 15:51:44 EST

<< Sure I have. I've even deleted one or two.>>

Okay, if you say so. But you're not much of a complainer

<< ... Are there some things that absolutely should not be allowed? And how to decide?>>

I guess you haven't noticed but VP is not a diplomacy. Jason decides.
All we can do is complain if we don't like what he decides.
Which is probably a good thing.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw
Re: I ruin the day
Posted by Chanterelle @ 2006-12-13 16:05:04 EST

<<VP is not a diplomacy>>

Do you mean a democracy?

<<Jason decides.>>

I suppose we have to start somewhere. He is the decider.

<<All we can do is complain if we don't like what he decides.>>

So, then, complaining is good! It's spreading democracy! Oh, wait...

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: zBCVTefYPYEcomrZEC0hlw
Re: I ruin the day
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-13 16:47:28 EST

<< Do you mean a democracy?>>

Oops... yeah, that's the word I wanted.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw
Re: I ruin the day
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-12-13 17:16:53 EST

Good catch on the "this typo businss" Wes. I busted up out loud.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: K0QM+Q7rJB93oD3KHfBHFw
Re: I typo the day
Posted by Chanterelle @ 2006-12-13 17:19:51 EST

"this typo businss" ?? No mizspellns allowed.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: WhuUyoV96DTGNNVcxzSVUQ
Re: I typo the day
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-13 18:51:45 EST

Just to be real mean I have not removed anybody's post here for any reasons. Though I must admit xbfwx seems to be the most nonsensical and worthless of the bunch, his posts dripping with condescension guilt and mediocre recognition of others intentions. Wes likes to beat around the bush, but he keeps things lively, and I like what he has to say, he is one here who is not afraid to admit when he is wrong, the trademarks of an openmind. In a way it is good, but to promote oneself as being truly unbiased one must exhibit those traits, either by hook or by crook. Now this was a joke thread, i hope you have learned your lesson now, censorship is not the bright and shiny infallible object that we all hope it would be.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: LjHUY9tB4T5z78w2pxJDiw
Thanks I think, but....
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-14 03:44:57 EST

<< Wes likes to beat around the bush, >>

" Dagda, freq is a little silly (I'm sure he knows that) and obviously a very sensitive young person.

You on the other hand continue to show that you are extremely insensitive and in fact, downright mean."

That was my first post on this thread and the only one that was obviously meant to be taken seriously.
If that's your idea of beating around the bush, what would I have to say to be considered direct?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw
Re: Thanks I think, but....
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-12-18 21:10:08 EST

What you said Wes.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: LjHUY9tB4T5z78w2pxJDiw
Why are people responding to a thread...
Posted by flutterby @ 2006-12-18 21:18:43 EST

started by anomymous clown?

A.C., you recently called me names and I am very upset about it.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: FoyqKvUVtJOBFfurHAnZJA
Re: Why are people responding to a thread...
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-18 21:25:33 EST

This is a fairly regular VP poster who's user name is Anonymous.
I don't know about the clown part.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw
Re: Why are people responding to a thread...
Posted by flutterby @ 2006-12-18 21:30:15 EST

This is a fairly regular VP poster whose user name is Anonymous.
I don't know about the clown part.

How can we tell if it is him or a real "anonymous"?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: FoyqKvUVtJOBFfurHAnZJA
Re: Why are people responding to a thread...
Posted by Wes @ 2006-12-18 21:48:31 EST

When the user with the name 'anonymous' posts, it's underlined.

When somebody else makes an anonymous post, it isn't underlined.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: dfnlQVgPDO9uREgb07CbUw

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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January 16 2007, 7:46 PM

http://www.veganporn.com/1052281303.html

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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January 19 2007, 4:17 PM

inherit reality please or dumb and dumber

No score for this post

January 24 2007, 2:35 PM

Describe in more detail your 50% of homeless people suffer from mental illness remark. Like in what 50% and what types of mental illness. Show me how all this nonsense is determined what variables are measured and what standards, if any, are used or adhered to. Be specific. I am also looking for some "reliable" measure of consistency beyond income gaps, diet, educational gaps and opportunities and other typical bullshite social measures of success. Meanwhile more and more people are falling under the governments poverty threashold and becoming homeless themselves, due to the failed social policies and fiscal irresponsibility of the GWBush regime and his neocon agenda. Do these former prime examples of moral purity and the american work ethic now arbitrarily fall under your 50% mentally ill figure because they are not poverty stricken and/or homeless? I think the answer is obvious. You don't know what you are talking about.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052281362.html

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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January 25 2007, 6:52 AM

I echo flutterbys remark. Isn't the question 'What is Art?' But yes in my mind you have artistic ability, and it is reasonable to call you an artist. But is it reasonable for you to use this self-described artistry as a basis for sheepish personal attacks here? The answer is no this is what i don't understand. To be truthful Wes i also find that you have animosity to spare and often like to launch useless one-dimensional personal attacks, when there is no need. Most of the artists i have met here and there were very focused individuals with gentle souls... more interesting in their art and generously taking the time to explain what it means more than anything else.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052281385.html

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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January 25 2007, 4:36 PM

Re:
*Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-25 19:26:17 EST*

Wes i said that i think that you are an artist. But you left the other half of my reasons out hanging in the breeze and for all intents and purposes quoted my out of context, but no matter. Most of the others here just close their eyes and ears when i'm around. And the subject is art not unnecessary personal attacks. My opinion might be biased as i play guitar though not very well, but i enjoy it. Now normally i would agree 100% with Sardonicus, about the tree thing, being that you are using expensive woods probably from endangered species and/or precious habitat may get destroyed to supply you with the materials needed to make your art happen. But i don't hold that against you, i invoke the "one man against the system" defense, just for you because i realize that the total amount of damage caused by yourself is probably negligible. You aren't the only person on the planet that has a hand in destroying precious eco-habitat. In fact it is even possible that you use scraps and pieces that you find here and there odd pieces that no one else wants or needs. But there is another reason. I used to work a regular job in construction, and more than once did i have to help to install old growth redwood boards, into the floor or into someones kitchen or into the bathroom or whatever. It made me sick but there was little i could do to convince my boss otherwise. I know that feeling of shame and guilt and that feeling of helplessness that you can do nothing about.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052281385.html

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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January 26 2007, 12:06 PM

Re: across the pond and living large but braindama
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-23 11:41:11 EST

I dare you to delete my posts here asshole.

[Reply]
Re: across the pond and living large but braindama
Posted by flutterby @ 2007-01-23 12:35:43 EST

I dare you to delete my posts here asshole.

Well, she won't have to, will she, now that you will presumably be restricting your comments to the duplicate thread you have started.

[Reply]
across the pond and living large but showing
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-23 12:43:15 EST

And the duplicate thread will stay there.

Are you having a bad day flutterby? Don't bother yourself with where and how i post if you don't mind that is. Your previous comment is totally irrelevant, ie. in fact your premature claim about a dictionary definition or somesuch hyperbole, actually hits closer to home than you pretend to notice, rendering the article in question impotent and moot.

[Reply]
Re: across the pond and living large but showing
Posted by Anonymous @ 2007-01-23 13:46:10 EST
Score: 4 (4 votes)
people are allowed to delete posts in their own journals. don't be silly. you don't make the rules.

[Reply]
Re: across the pond and living large but showing
Posted by frank language @ 2007-01-23 15:44:09 EST

We're all praying for you, dragonfly.

[Reply]
Re: across the pond and living large but showing
Posted by SealHunter @ 2007-01-23 16:34:11 EST

No need to pray for Df. According to themself they have something akin to "spider-senses" and ESP. Look and feel tells them everything, which is why facts and pointing out their errors does not make a dent. They don't see it, feel it, or have their preternatural prowess tweaked by us mere mortals. Reading what we have to say is irrelevant when they have the power to just know what we mean, right?

If only we were so acute as to understand the mysteries of the universe as they have. We wouldn't argue or question; just bask in their glory.

I bet if my first comment was "this article sucked" they'd have argued black and blue how wonderful, timely, and accurate the piece is. Just like a real dragon fly, they're almost totally transparent.

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2007-01-23 16:52:41 EST

[[ i know friends who live on the street and those who live in mansions. ]]

Perhaps you should introduce these two groups of friends to each other.

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please
Posted by Bigjamesone @ 2007-01-23 17:12:59 EST

<<Perhaps you should introduce these two groups of friends to each other.>>
i hope that's a joke 'cos its very funny:)

<inherit reality please> that's funny too 'cos i'm an irish/geordie cross so i have inherited reality, oh yeah and i still remember limbless children begging in the street in africa!

got a lot of homeless/street dwellers types in your pad Sardonicus?

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-24 11:12:00 EST

Yeah well i'm german irish french and portuguese. I still think you're a boob Bigjamesone.

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2007-01-24 16:06:16 EST

Now now. If James is being a boob, it's only because he wrote this:

<inherit reality please> that's funny too 'cos i'm an irish/geordie cross so i have inherited reality, oh yeah and i still remember limbless children begging in the street in africa!

got a lot of homeless/street dwellers types in your pad Sardonicus?

I have no idea why you directed that at me. The "inherit reality" subject header was not of my creation. See far above.

I was serious about getting your two groups of friends together. Why would that be a joke? Perhaps the rich folks can help the poor, or at least realize how lucky they are.

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please
Posted by lenni @ 2007-01-24 17:16:52 EST

Damn, I had hoped that only my diet and attendance on this board linked me to dragonfly. Here is the first time I have ever had a reason to feel negative about my Portuguese heritage...sigh.

Anyway, I think that it is obvious how stigmatized those with mental illness are in this culture. When I lived in the dorms last year and had free cable, I remember seeing some commercial for some stupid show where this woman went all around and did a bunch of different activities. That would be ok, but in the commercial, she said "I'm not schizophrenic-I'm just busy." That pissed me off because what she was describing doing had no relation whatsoever to actual schizophrenia. That is just an example of the ignorance about mental illness that abounds these days.

I'm no psychology expert, but I know a bit of the textbook-type info on mental illness and I at least have the sense to not talk shit about what I don't know.

What is it, 50% or more of homeless people suffer from mental illness? Is that the official number? Sad.

BigJames, I know you already know that you are a good person, but I just want to offer you a high-five. Everything you say indicates a thoughtful and kind person. I know you know you are right about the above silly shit, but for the record I agree with you.

Not all us Portuguese are such jackasses.

But Sardonicus was right about the rich folks needing to be more in contact with the poor. (this is in general, not necessarily a stab at your friends, but the rich don't deserve to have the luxury of ignoring the pain of the poor. They should at least have to pay the small price of guilt for their extravagent lifestyles, if they aren't willing to do anything to help the problem)

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please
Posted by Bigjamesone @ 2007-01-24 17:26:55 EST

<<I was serious about getting your two groups of friends together. Why would that be a joke!>>

sorry! if you knew them you'd understand:)

some of the old convoy/traveller lot and some of the mansion lot, sort of know each other by proxy. these types have made lifestyle choices...

not all the people i know could be classed as sound, sane, reasonable, mad, sad or bad:/

but hey! they've not done anything to upset me(sort of, a certain moral flexibility applied to that), so i live and let live.....

some with mental illness or addictions i wouldn't introduce to many others due the the original post. it would just freak them out, both sides:( i have tried, when i was younger but members social groups are in those groups for quite good reasons. fairy or unfairly.

(how about that a thread back on topic? feck me!)

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please or dumb and dumber
Posted by Anonymous @ 2007-01-24 17:34:37 EST
Score: 0 (2 votes)
Describe in more detail your 50% of homeless people suffer from mental illness remark. Like in what 50% and what types of mental illness. Show me how all this nonsense is determined what variables are measured and what standards, if any, are used or adhered to. Be specific. I am also looking for some "reliable" measure of consistency beyond income gaps, diet, educational gaps and opportunities and other typical bullshite social measures of success. Meanwhile more and more people are falling under the governments poverty threashold and becoming homeless themselves, due to the failed social policies and fiscal irresponsibility of the GWBush regime and his neocon agenda. Do these former prime examples of moral purity and the american work ethic now arbitrarily fall under your 50% mentally ill figure because they are not poverty stricken and/or homeless? I think the answer is obvious. You don't know what you are talking about.

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please or dumb and dumber
Posted by lenni @ 2007-01-24 18:47:53 EST

That is the statistic (or similar; its been awhile) I learned in a past psychology class. My boyfriend has learned about those issues in many college psych classes.

*In what 50% and what types of mental illness* What? 50% means one half. One out of two homeless Americans suffers from some type of mental illness. Are you asking me to define what "50%" means or what "homeless" means or what? And what constitutes mental illness, I think any reasonable person would agree, is explained in the DSM. The "type" does not matter; though the symptoms may be different they still negatively affect the person's well-being and stability. If you want me to explain what I said you will have to be more clear as to what you need explained. I think it is evident that for the purposes of this discussion, those here of reasonable mind are not disputing what "mental illness" means-it is obviously not quantifiably measurable but still its definition obviously is not subjective as you seem to think.

I never said that it was their fault, therefore your ranting about (implying I am being judgemental) social measures of success is silly. My point is that many mentally ill people end up homeless/jobless/etc because our society does not care about or treat mental illness as it should.

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please or dumb and dumber
Posted by Bigjamesone @ 2007-01-24 19:26:49 EST

my ex does social policy,
here (UK) the back grounds of homeless people (rather than travelling peoples/groups) was a split between ex military, the mentally ill and drug users!

not sure what it is in the US?

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please or dumb and dumber
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-24 22:09:05 EST

My point is lenni do you really think that is all there is to life, that that is all there is to a person? There is more to it than that. Plus i do want to bring statistics into this, could you point me to a reliable database. Let's ignore actual definitions for "mental illness" now i can see that you are in over your head. Just as you have ignored the factual basis for the increasing number of people who now live below the poverty line and now measure below the 2006 poverty threshold, due to misplaced financial policies and due to the increasing income gap here in America.

In your world someone who drinks coffee, has a mountain credit card debt spread over several credit cards, has a new house in the suburbs, a television or two, has cable or similar, drives a brand new Hummer or SUV, and does not go to peace marches doesn't qualify as mentally ill. And coffee is not a drug. I hope you really don't believe this.

Bigjamesone i know alot of veterans most of them cannot believe how much people disrespect nature and disrespect each other.

[Reply]
Re: inherit reality please or dumb and dumber
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-24 22:23:55 EST

One more time.

My point is that many mentally ill people end up homeless/jobless/etc because our society does not care about or treat mental illness as it should.

Define mental illness for me, or give me a working definition, don't just point me to a database or something that you gleaned out of a textbook but don't know anything about, or something that is poorly defined and is usually described as being part of a mountain of causes and effects.

The "type" does not matter;

Wrong again lenni. Ever hear about misdiagnosis? How about when it comes to treatments and cures? Another worthless statement maybe you could tell me more about your symptoms and how they are measured.

Remember now you said that the science of psychological constructs and evaluation of eyewitness testimony didn't count.

The working definitions are beyond the issue of subjectivity that you mention. Cough up some evidence prove me wrong for a change instead of mishandling the issue and throwing more worthless buzzwords my way and playing the corrupt definition "it has to be right i saw it in a textbook" game.

My boyfriend has learned about those issues in many college psych classes.

It's my turn now... here are a couple of buzzwords. Snake oil. WOMD. Halliburton. Enron.

Let's take that trip to Iraq lenni. It might do you some good.

[Reply]
Posted by Triddle @ 2007-01-24 22:27:51 EST

I'll take a stab at defining what mental illness: pathologically maladaptive behaviours

OK GO!

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-24 22:32:54 EST

Not having a brand new SUV and a cellphone glued to you ear.

OK GO!

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by Triddle @ 2007-01-24 22:40:23 EST

Yes, you're incredibly correct. there is a large portion of society that would see me as maladaptive if the only criteria was what kind of material wealth. But you're putting limits on what my definition pertains too. This is regarding your request for a definition of mental illness.

I'm going to bed.

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-24 22:44:15 EST

No Triddle you don't seem to understand my dearest...i have only just begun.

Live in a working class neighborhood couldn't cut it in the real world and caught a case or two.

OK GO!

[Reply]
This is what coherence looks like
Posted by lenni @ 2007-01-25 01:32:40 EST

Dragonfly, I really don't know what you are saying. Are you saying that I value material posessions or that I hate them? I am not in either extreme.

You contradict yourself, saying that the "type" (label) of a specific mental illness matters and then mentioning misdiagnoses, which would imply that "typing" or labeling a mental illness is not right. So what side are you on?

For a definition, I will agree w/Triddle's "maladaptive behaviors." As a totally non-scientific off-the-top-of-my-head definition of it, I would say that it is any condition or problem in the brain which causes a person to be unable to care for himself, be unable to function in society, cause harm by action or neglect to himself or others, be unable to maintain personal relationships, be unable to distinguish reality from unreality, etc.

For abnormality: Deviance, Distress, Dysfunction, Danger.

Deviance from the norm, distress caused to oneself or others, dysfunctional behavior or relations, danger caused to oneself or others.

Now before you jump on my mentioning the ability to function in society, know that I do not mean a mentally healthy person must necessarily conform to societal mores-simply that he must be able to exist at least alongside and possibly in a somewhat symbiotic relationship with the prevalent social structure. That is important from a survival standpoint.

And at whom are you directing these poverty/wealth comments? I grew up in a blue-collar family. My father started working construction in Portugal when he was very young after only four years of school. He immigrated to America because the fascist dictatorship in power in Portugal until the 1970s made that country incredibly poor and a bad place to find work. He worked shit jobs, learned English on his own, and put himself through night school to learn his trade. My siblings and I have all worked since we were in our early teens. I have never had shit handed to me, aside from being born in this wealthy country, for which I am grateful. But don't talk all this shit about the wealthy and act like you're the only one who doesn't have it easy.

Dragonfly, so you know, I do want to continue discussing this, but I warn you that if you are unable to be civil and cannot disagree with or question what I say without calling me names then I will end this discussion. Civility is not so hard to use as you might think. Calling me or my opinions worthless does nothing to change my mind or make your points stronger. It is counterproductive; stop it or you will have proved yourself to be as irrational and immature as your remarks indicate.

BigJames, I want to hear more of you. What would you say about an overlap between the mentally ill and drug abusers? I imagine there is quite a bit.

[Reply]
Re: This is what coherence looks like
Posted by flutterby @ 2007-01-25 08:33:40 EST

Lenni: Don't do it. Please don't indulge df; it is distracting and annoying to those of use who are interested in this thread, His mindless attacks are neither interesting nor on-topic, so there is really no reason they should not be simply ignored.

Anyway, back to the topic... I have been thinking, and have not liked where my thoughts have taken me.

One of the problems with a mental illness is that it is very difficult to demonstrate that a person is permanently cured. Some illnesses, like schizophrenia, are acknowledged to be incurable; and while most cases can be managed with medications, the side effects of these are often so unpleasant that patients tend to try to get by without them.

So, imagine that you are running a small business, just getting by, and you have two qualified job applicants. One is a person who suffered a serious somatic illness and is now certified disease-free. The other is someone who has been diagnosed with a mental illness, but has been symptom-free for two years.

The first applicant seems like the practical choice, and it does not matter how odious I find this conclusion.

[Reply]
candyasses that drive brand new cars
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-25 10:02:18 EST

flutterby shutup. lenni you have contradicted yourself, of course, but i will return to that later. What i want from you is to point me to a website or two that can "diagnose" what is wrong with me, and/or what current pc flavor of mental illness i seemed to have acquired. I want to see if the diagnoses match.

Other than that lenni you are just selling snake oil here.

[Reply]
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-25 10:04:40 EST

Individual believes in ghosts but next door neighbor has a degree in psychology and goes to church every Sunday.

OK GO!

[Reply]
welcome to buzzwordland, here's a brand new car
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-25 10:08:29 EST

For abnormality:

Describe your normal and your abnormal, in laymans terms. The reason i ask this should be obvious.

[Reply]
Re: candyasses that drive brand new cars
Posted by flutterby @ 2007-01-25 10:31:38 EST

What i want from you is to point me to a website or two that can "diagnose" what is wrong with me, and/or what current pc flavor of mental illness i seemed to have acquired. I want to see if the diagnoses match.

dragonfly,

I am no longer willing to engage you in what you consider "debate", but I would like to make a heartfelt plea.

If you know or fear that you have a mental illness, please do not diagnose yourself based on a website. Go to a psychiatrist, or if you have not sufficient money or insurance to do so, find a low-cost mental health clinic in your area.

The article mentioned that people don't seek help because they feel stigmatised. But you may have noticed that on VP there are lots of people who have been there and back. Please get help if you are not already doing so. And if you are receiving help already, tell them that whatever they are doing is not working.

[Reply]
Incurable
Posted by lenni @ 2007-01-25 10:39:11 EST

Flutterby, you're right.

The issue about "curing" mental illness is difficult. I think that w/the small business example, it would help to know from what the applicant had suffered. If it did not involve violence, delusions, or antisocial behavior, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I think the absolute scariest and worst abnormal psychological condition is antisocial personality disorder. Aside from being incurable, it is also virtually untreatable. An antisocial person is also usually incredibly charming and a good liar, and so is able to hide his behaviors from those he uses.

There is someone who at one point in my life was very close to me and who for various reasons I believe might have an antisocial personality. It is scary and painful to realize with the benefit of hindsight all the instances where you and others were being used.

[Reply]
Re: Incurable
Posted by Bigjamesone @ 2007-01-25 12:16:02 EST

schizophrenia (even though in this this case is an umbrella tern, there is no actual disease called this) appears my my experience, to have long term and irreversible effects on the character of a person. i believe from the little i know, brain chemistry as also greatly affected.

i can also say that in some serious mental illnesses, the sufferer can appear to be well and healthy, this is usually when dealing with health care professions and those that do not know the client, that is why when serious concerns about self harm or harm to others they can be sectioned(UK) initially two days (assuming there are secure beds available)

i myself have had a friend sectioned, a doctor,social worker and usually one other health care professional are needed for this process. they arrive at your house and interview the person then, if in their opinion, the person is ill (at this point the ill person knows vaguely what is happening and will attempt to behave normally, which can get the section stopped if they appear sane enough) call the police and an ambulance to take the person to the nearest mental health hospital.

the person then gets an interview by a clinical psychologist and then they are confined to hospital for usually two days to 28days for observation.

the above description does not give you any idea of the emotional trauma experience by the client or in my case as the person who arranged the section the enormity of having one of you best friends pinned to the ground as 5 psyche nurse wrestle him to the ground and sedate him. i was 22 and totally unprepared at the time for the extreme stress that this caused. all his friends had protected him from the system all being independent types, we had shut down his access to drugs in our town and had baby sat him for two months only watching his delusions/paranoias and actions go right off any acceptable scale.

i'm not going to give examples of his actions or thoughts as he was a good friend, you'll just have to take my word for it. that this was the most upset i have ever been about a friends condition, worse than a bad death, more like a living death for those that knew him. the drugs that he got were the strongest available and had massive side effects. his condition, now 16years later is under control, to be 'cured' that will never happen....

[Reply]
and the password is - snake oil
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-25 15:22:15 EST

What's this??

lenni has waved the white flag, refuses to continue this discussion and answer my inquiries here... leaving a trail of unanswered questions.

Doesn't surprise me at all..was there ever any doubt? The answer of course is obvious. There was no integrity to her statements that i could detect.

Sadly the best she could come up with was the old reliable and usually dependable "that's what it says in a text book" defense and ending with the grand statement that there is such a thing as anti-social personality disorder and that it is uncurable. Of course routinely forgetting to provide examples and simple definitions.

Obviously lenni doesn't have a questioning mind or a clue as to what the subject matter that she professes to know inside out actually entails. Hence the reliance on buzzwords and superficial ad hominems. She doesn't know and couldn't tell you if she is defending her statements, her own personal believes, her own belief system, the american dream, or the science of psychology. These basic ideas are too remote and much too complicated for her. Something beyond her weak and superficial grasp of the subject.

Lenni is a victim of her own selfishness and stupidity. Don't laugh. Lenni is probably is a success story waiting to happen.. if you call a brand new SUV, a nice house in the suburbs and a mountain of credit card debt a fine example of success and a glowing picture of financial responsibility.

Let's not forget the mountain of ad hominem statements, childish personal attacks and not knowing what the term "arguing from authority" really means. Even tries to put words in my mouth and ascribe meaning and "evil" intent, when none is there, when asking only a simple question or two.

[Reply]
Re: and the password is - snake oil
Posted by flutterby @ 2007-01-25 15:25:29 EST

Lenni, do us all a favour and do not respond to this.

[Reply]
Re: Incurable
Posted by lenni @ 2007-01-25 16:51:00 EST

BigJames, that is interesting.

I know exactly what you mean about how professionals who might be able to help a disturbed individual can easily be fooled.

The person I mentioned above, who has messed up a lot of peoples' lives alongside her own was very good at hiding her shit for a very long time. She was actually going to a psychiatrist and getting ADD medicine (which she did not use properly, for help with schoolwork) while her life was otherwise falling apart. The psychiatrist kept prescribing it to her because she hid her very heavy drinking and use of other strong drugs from him. She was able for a very long time to blame her problems on third party influences. She refused to take responsibility for any of her actions, always blaming her problems on her parents, her professors, or society's bias against women. For a long time she was able to convince some people in her life that all that was true, and that is why nobody put the pieces together sooner.

She has now dropped out of school, owes a lot of money to a lot of different people and businesses, and hasn't seen or talked to her family or her old friends for weeks. We know she has a severe addiction to alcohol and most likely some other hard substances. I know she has used cocaine with some regularity in her life and someone who has seen other cases like this suggested she might be using crystal meth now. All this in addition to lifelong issues with rage, paranoia, mistrust, self-esteem, and impulse control.

I knew she drank too much and had money problems and temper/mood swing problems for years, but she covered it up and stayed functional enough that it seemed less serious than it is. It is so fucked up to see that all come out, seemingly from nowhere.

We don't know what is going to happen to her. She absolutely refuses to acknowledge that she has done anything wrong-everything is due to people "evaluating" and judging her. I hadn't talked to her since July because I told her she needed to get help and I couldn't have her in my life until she got it. I was not the only person over whom she chose drinking & irresponsibility. She has lost a lot of relationships over the past year. Since she has cut herself off from virtually everyone who cares about her and knows what is going on, she is even less likely to get help. She hasn't even gotten in trouble for her frequent drunk driving, theft, or confrontational behavior.

We are all pretty sure that if she does not get help very soon she will either kill herself or someone else in a drunk driving incident or overdose or get into trouble with dealers or creditors.

As much as she has hurt all of us, we want her to get help and get better. I don't think it is going to happen.

Sorry if this is too long or low, once I started talking about it the catharsis felt really good. Thanks for listening.

[Reply]
Re: Incurable
Posted by Bigjamesone @ 2007-01-25 17:45:55 EST

not to long or low at all. a couple of things lenni

one)
you can only do what you can do. sounds stupid or glib maybe? i spent years feeling guilty for be unable to help my friend get better, i did what i could. you actually cannot force her to do what you think is right, it's not going to happen, it's really not:(

if all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again what chance did i have?

its a stupid kids rhyme but is 100% applicable to those with serious mental health issues.....................................

two)
it hard to get a feeling how ill she is from your post all i can tell is its having a huge effect on you and you closest.

i'm going to assume she's not as far down as she can get yet, i'm sorry about that, thing will continue to degrade for her 'self', delusions and paranoia are possible (they are terrifying to watch in a loved one, this is not just a bit of silly paranoia you get with weed, which still can freak you out this is a 100000times worse) especially with addition of crack and meth

i'm going to assume that the drugs are a self medicating thing, not part of the disease but a symptom, she has no choice over what she does, not in the way you or i might want to give up smoking, worse drinking or worse heroin/crack/meth. (these become issues of physical dangers killing her more than the mental illness....

if she can not get help herself or does not realise she needs help that means she is out of any social control and you bear no responsibility for her actions, that sounds harsh but it means you can be there saying that for her saying 'you are wrong,' yet give her the support that you can. so confront when she is wrong, don't argue, you on a hiding(beating) to nowhere, logic has no place in the minds of the mentally ill because you do not know what they are thinking or even the reality they are existing in, its hard enough with sane types!

at this moment assuming she is able to get self control back for herself all you can do is listen, empathise and provide information to her, so she can help herself. then be there for her when she realises and you can help pick up the pieces.

if she cannot help herself then a big crisis is the next step where the state gets involved, here we have a pretty crap but totally accessible and free health system,

i advise you contact a friends or family support group that has access to the relavent information for where you live, for your and her sakes

if it gets to heavy for you, you can email me or call. if my experiences can help, i am more than willing to listen, i would not find it a burden by any means......

if she does improve she will feel remorse, guilt and shame. its not fair for her for for her closest. it will take years if not decades:(

[Reply]
materialism at its best
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-25 19:34:43 EST

Individual is wrongly accused of homocide but cannot afford a Dream Team defense.

[Reply]
Re: materialism at its best
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-25 19:57:21 EST

lenni let's put our squabble aside for a moment. I know exactly what you're going through. There is nothing you can do when someone believes in their heart and soul that they are doing everything possible to meet the societal norms for success and happiness. If someone gets in their way or breaks the spell then just snarl at them or overreact, it's the arrogant thing to do. It's harmless. The routine outbreaks of emotional overkill/outbursts are completely necessary for ones own survival because they have been not been taught otherwise and it keeps them focused on other thing besides the inconsistent nature of their emotional make-up. Like a dog chasing its tail.

[Reply]
Re: Incurable
Posted by lenni @ 2007-01-25 21:00:08 EST

Thanks, BigJames. I appreciate your thoughts.

As far as the state getting involved, some of us wanted her parents to go get a court to order her into treatment, but they were worried about needing documentable evidence and whether they had money to pay for it, and then she disappeared.

And I know not to feel guilty. I just feel sad.

She definitely self-medicates; she has been since her early teens. As far as how ill she is, I don't what to say. She has severe mood swings and gets into confrontations with friends, family, and strangers over tiny things. She can go from joking and nice to vicious and angry in a second. She has very low self-esteem and though very intelligent she has dropped out of college after 7 years in a 4 year program. She has stolen money and liquor from family and friends (nearly $1000 from her younger brother). She has delusions of persecution by anyone who doesn't do exactly what she wants-she thinks everyone is judging her or trying to harm her. I don't know if that is a good description...

I witnessed a really scary episode of paranoia/delusions with her. It was the last time I saw her though we weren't speaking, we were just in the same house on Christmas Eve. She had a certain infection she picked up from staying in so many shady places (or promiscuity) and wanted to leave to go to a drugstore to get something for it. She was parked in and told her mom to move the car so she could get out. Her mom suggested she call the drugstore to see if they were open (they were closed, it was 9pm). She started screaming that her parents were holding her prisoner and she was going to call the police and her parents' jobs and tell their bosses "all" about them. She got a really scary tone in her voice that sounded like she was going to physically hurt someone. She worked herself up so much that she fell on the floor and was tearing her hair out. And her mom just wanted her to take a couple of minutes to call and see if the place was closed. Her dad moved the car, she stormed out with no coat or shoes and only in really ratty pajamas and that was the last any of us saw of her.

I think her mom was looking into Al-Anon and I would but aren't the "anonymous" programs really christian-based?

[Reply]
Incurable double standards or meet the strawmen
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-26 14:42:48 EST

Individual is an immigrant and legal citizen, doesn't speak english very well and is wrongly accused of shoplifting and/or is assaulted and is again attacked by security guards or police and becomes combative, gets angry when asked stupid questions because he was on the way home to see his wife and pay his rent.

[Reply]
Re: Incurable double standards or meet the strawme
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-26 14:45:42 EST

Instead of blathering on about incurable mental illnesses and pretended cures, why don't we talk about double standards, faulty sciences and having the rare ability to hide ones head in the sand.

Let's take that trip to Iraq lenni. Consider it part of your education.

[Reply]
Re: Incurable double standards or meet the strawme
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-26 14:55:57 EST

It's gets worse people.

Look what i found through a simple google search..

Famous People Who Have Had Mental Illness

Hans Christian Anderson
Ludwig Von Beethoven
Winston Churchill
Kurt Cobain
Charles Darwin
Emily Dickenson
Thomas Edison
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Betty Ford
Paul Gauguin
King George III
Johan Goethe
Ernest Hemingway
Victor Hugo
Ignatius of Loyola
Thomas Jefferson
John Keats
Abraham Lincoln
Martin Luther
Michelangelo
Florence Nightingale
King Saul
Robert Louis Stevenson
Sir Isaac Newton

The premier and one of a handfull of globally recognized geniuses in mathematics and science was mentally ill? Riight. He lived in the middle ages people. He was also a leading philosopher. How can you interview and/or attempt to diagnose Sir Isaac Newton when he has been dead for nearly 280 years?

This is beyond insane people. This is just plain dumb.

Lenni don't respond i don't want you to miss your credit card payment.

[Reply]

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Anonymous
(no login)

Re: veganpornuserdeletions

No score for this post

January 29 2007, 9:39 PM

Re: The differences are........
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-01-29 20:08:49 EST

My question exactly. This is a rather good example of hunter-trolls "valuable" input here. Anyone can see that he has trashed this thread and taken it far afield preventing any sort of in depth discussion to occur.. and never reprimanded. So the question begs to be asked..Why did HT/JasonD start VeganPorn in the first place?

I appreciate the fact that this is one of a handful of internet forums that i am aware of that actually is moderatorless and more or less allows free expression of one's thoughts and free speech. You know Jason gives me warnings every once in awhile and then i chance upon some crap thread like this, ruined for no good reason, by a non-vegan no less.

This makes little sense.

Let's goto http://www.archive.org and have a look.

1) web.archive.org/web/20020423192716/www.veganporn.c om/faq.pl
2) web.archive.org/web/20020125125401/hermanthrust.th rustlabs.com/
3) web.archive.org/web/20030606073200/veganporn.com/f aq.pl
- Why Vegan PORN?
- Whether we like it or not, pornography has had a powerful impact on society. Video rental stores wouldn't be around today if the adult video industry didn't exist to provide a revenue stream while the major movie studios fought to keep people going to the theatre. The CD-ROM drive in your computer was made possible, originally, thanks to the wide variety of adult picture and movie discs - there was a time when they vastly outnumbered the family-oriented software available on CD. As for the internet, well, I don't think I need to go any further. "Vegan Porn" was based on the (half joking) idea that if porn could do so much for so many things, it might be able to help veganism.
  
  Also, we thought it was funny.

You are not going to turn the tide HT/Jason if you keep giving these nonsensical and semi-coherent omni/hunter/trolls a space to spread their wares in the form of animosity and hatred, via their message of confusion, obfuscation and all too real ignorance including the deliberate spamming of this forum.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052280233.html

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Anonymous
(no login)

bulk of my ideas about music

No score for this post

January 30 2007, 6:32 PM

bulk of my ideas about music
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-03-12 21:15:10 EST
{off the record flag= on}

The bulk of my 'ideas' come from:

1) Applying a sequential ordering to the songs on The album known as Magic Circles, the British release of course, and then;
2) Applying a few brand new reorderings via this monster: www.random.org , and;
3) Done that to Rubber Soul, but using songs from Abberry Road as random pointers to songs on Rubber Soul, a couple of times, with dice and a lot of vector space, and always but always came up with some very strange results, i.e. Drive My Car at least once?/it happened comes up as a double lead in to a rather choice truncated version and/or subset of the original album.
4) I would discard obvious selections for various reasons, especially if certain selections were double selected; I do have my limits, and the semi-profane/perhaps derelict act of actually discarding certain songs, for reasons such as thus, is well..within operational range, even for me.
5) That's it. Honest!

{off the record flag= off}
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now i'm confused
Posted by abbienorml @ 2006-03-12 21:30:41 EST

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Re: now i'm confused
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-03-12 21:52:00 EST

i'm not a musician so i can't state this precisely, but basically just a way for me to appley random orderings to Beatle songs, after i tire of listening to my otherwise favorite tracks in a certain order or a certain sequence. Another way to take a photograph i guess.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: LjHUY9tB4T5z78w2pxJDiw
ah
Posted by abbienorml @ 2006-03-12 22:01:16 EST

pretty nifty

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: lUUghzZd0uyY6fKZ0vxZAg
Re: ah
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-03-12 22:47:56 EST

I just read about a cover album called Beatles for Bedtime. Or was it Bedtime with the Beatles. Anyway Macca was raving about it. I might get it for my friend's son.

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Anonymous
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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

No score for this post

January 30 2007, 6:35 PM

The "R" word
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-02-10 14:09:44 EST
Try me.

/killfile
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Witty Repartee - Add Yours
Posted by Luciddreamer @ 2006-02-10 14:35:16 EST

Ok.
Red
Rose
Ruby
Rooster
Rope
There's a few for you.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: VGx8BndY+MHmTLR7MnCQag
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-02-10 14:41:01 EST

Thank you Luciddreamer. No offense, but this thread is headed towards a shining sea of heavy metal binary nonsense, ie will definitely get 86'd.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: LjHUY9tB4T5z78w2pxJDiw
Re:
Posted by Checkers @ 2006-02-10 14:42:03 EST

MCFLY!!!

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: vfro6is7VJmxW+3+PSc2rw
Re:
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-02-10 14:44:41 EST

Rejuvenate
Robust
Relate
Rendezvous
Reitterate
Robert
Robin
Restless
Reckless

To name a few

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
I love you dragonfly
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-02-10 14:46:02 EST

I don't know why, but I do

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-02-10 15:41:06 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Ritalin?

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Re:
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-02-10 15:48:59 EST

Good stuff Ritalin. It really works

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re:
Posted by dandelion @ 2006-02-10 16:02:31 EST

Reindeer
Retaliate
Regiments
Rigid
Remote
Refuse
Review
Ring
Risen
Ruckus
Read
Roll
Rave
Reduce
Reuse
Recycle???

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: jUPjLpnAy58zbmbGYfo9GA
Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-02-10 18:46:03 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Republican

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Re:
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-02-10 19:49:05 EST

Rotten Revenge Randy

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Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-02-10 19:55:15 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
rigor mortis

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Re:
Posted by Dagda Samildanc @ 2006-02-10 20:35:51 EST

Redrum

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Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-02-10 20:44:58 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Roadkill

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: yWaAH9Q9UDmR2TisoZT7Dg
Posted by woubit @ 2006-02-10 23:16:01 EST

Jumbled in the common box
Of their dark stupidity
Orchid, swan and Caesar lie.
Time that tires of everyone
Has corroded all the locks,
Thrown away the key for fun.

In its cleft the torrent mocks
Prophets who in days gone by
Made a profit on each cry -
Persona grata now with none,
And a jackass language shocks
Poets who can only pun.

Silence settles on the clocks,
Nursing mothers point a sly
Index finger at a sky
Crimson with the setting sun.
In the valley of the fox
Gleams the barrel of a gun.

Once we could have made the docks,
Now it is too late to fly.
Once too often you and I
Did what we should not have done.
Round the rampant rugged rocks
Rude and ragged rascals run.

W H Auden

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: G6t4CBAsiONbHzGcTl2xiQ
Re: R: tape loading error
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-02-11 00:44:31 EST

R: tape loading error

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: jZ/Fw+zh/C0XJ3Zr663wqA
Re: R: tape loading error
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-02-14 06:58:15 EST

Thanks Sardonicus, something i didn't even know about.

And Anonymous considering your generous offer as i type this, even though i have somehow reverted to a shall we say... a primitive state.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: m6xU7iCnlPOmXpHdGDhpiQ
Re: R: tape loading error
Posted by SmallRabbit @ 2006-02-14 08:24:22 EST

Requiem

RANCID

............ Rabbit!

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 1troEuwmZsK1k5s/aolXyg
Re: R: tape loading error
Posted by anarchistgrouch @ 2006-02-14 10:16:18 EST

RUTABEGAS!

rutabegas rutabegas rutabegas rutabegas rutabegas

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: xkTEThH/GqDL8p5fOWVfYg
Re: R: tape loading error
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-02-14 10:23:42 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Ralphie?

Oh yeah, there is a really cool R word.

Re...

Rep......

Reparations!

You thought.

You thought I was going to say.....

Repair?

Reply?

Repetitive?

Well you were wrong.

I was really going to say....

REPUBLICAN!

Ronald Reagan was a Republican.

Viva la Reagan Revolucion!

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fLzTus/jEdYJafxFiG5RZQ
Re: R: tape loading error
Posted by love freq @ 2006-02-14 10:37:01 EST

really
red
rats
run
rapid,
raising
right
round
ronalds
rather
ransid
rectum

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: z640I9LgKn0shxXD0bBu3g
Re: RRRRRR
Posted by graham @ 2006-02-14 14:20:10 EST

Rectum (oh, we had that already, but(t) let's have another)
Ring Gag
Roped
ROUGH
Rooty Toot Tootin Good Time (Really)

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: Qw+YT32p5wSD73IiCO6OEw
Re: RRRRRR
Posted by SmallRabbit @ 2006-02-15 08:15:38 EST

Roll over.

does that count?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 1troEuwmZsK1k5s/aolXyg
Re: RRRRRR
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-02-15 08:31:35 EST

i suppose yes i suppose a thousand times correct yes i ain't can't wont exist inta' rakism.

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Re: RRRRRR
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-02-16 10:19:49 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Rabies

Rabid

Real

Republican

Ra Rah!

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Anonymous
(no login)

Somebody To Love

No score for this post

January 30 2007, 6:36 PM

Somebody To Love
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 10:30:13 EST
It's on the street..

met quite a few..

special forces, last one ashore, tanks 'n gold watches,,, shoeboxes... Retribution,,, Saigon... Hamburger Hill, Congressional Medals of honor.

Maybe you pc flunkies should stop dissin' homeless folk... mmmkay?

i ain't monkeying around neither.

Caveat emptor/killfile
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Posted by Luciddreamer @ 2006-01-29 11:51:22 EST

Who has been saying bad things about homeless people here?.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: VGx8BndY+MHmTLR7MnCQag
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 12:30:29 EST

Hi LucidDreamer. This thread will be deleted.. do not take it personal...

[bottomfeeder flag=on]

It's more of the casual, ineffective and boorish reliance upon quick dirty crass overblown and overhyped one-dimensional media generalizations/importune distortions of what a homeless person is, and how they act, and how they are often considered to be so much trash just blowing around the landscape.

i once got actual real (read : da imp watch it now) death threats online for stating that i thought spiking trees was a good thing.

So much for trying to make this a better world.

Oh and let's not forget the endless squabbles i had the misfortune to chance upon on race boards, and the idiotic and hopelessly opaque remarks that i encountered. And how my opinions just don't count, because i was once upon a time foolish enough to oppose the absurd notions presented by the boring and unrealistic classist/work ethic drivel that passed almost unnoticed as thought provoking and "competent" debate, by an endless parade of classist clowns who can only pretend to worship, but not actually enforce, a see through garbage strewn one size fits all work ethic...As if that what morality and virtue is all about. Ask rabidkoala. He knows of what exactly it is that i speak of.

Mercilessly attacked is more like it.

Ya' see... there MUST be a better use for those gosh-darned keyboards that are attached to the monitors that are attached to the computers that is...

Just so much nonsense. So little truth. Too much apathy and so little integrity.

[bottomfeeder flag=off]

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Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-01-29 12:37:35 EST

Score: -1 (1 vote) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Off your meds again?

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good example right here people..
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-01-29 15:10:58 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
...no balls, no brains. Period.

Wanna' take a walk wid' me fool?

That's what i thought.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 91jpYi6QgKm+t/TQwnXq3Q
Re: good example right here people..
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-01-29 15:21:58 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)

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Re: good example right here people..
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-01-29 15:24:49 EST

Score: 1 (1 vote) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Impressive i must admit anon.. i'm speechless... well sort of'..

You have nothing constructive to add to this thread... and here's the easy part.. it SHOWS!!

Really. But since you're here..

What medications and why?

Maybe you just don't like what i have to say...or how i say it.

But we all know the REAL truth here.. everything i say goes over your head... like a six pack of NASA rockets going unto reaches unknown. Sorry...dude..

It's not MY fault you're an idiot. Heh.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
This thread is weird....
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 16:06:22 EST

''Ask rabidkoala. He knows of what exactly it is that i speak of.''

hehe, I'm so going to say that everytime anyone asks me ANYTHING. tehe.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Posted by Roethke @ 2006-01-29 16:16:14 EST

Forgive my ignorance. What is spiking trees?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 2f2YdXUMp5ueISCyeDpwWQ
Re: This thread is weird....
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 16:20:22 EST

This thread better be weird. Look at the subject matter, it reaches where none should travel and no one should go.

And Nelleh everyone might know that i am not a racist in any sense of the word. It's just not me. Also i rightly refuse to take the seemingly superficial pc bellyaching that raged right along side of it at face value. On top of that rabidkoala even came here to admit his mistakes and the confusion it caused in the past, in his own amicable and morose way of course.

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Re: ecoterrorism should not be a crime
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 16:23:29 EST

google it.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
Re: This thread is weird....
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 16:23:45 EST

This thread is weird....
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 16:06:22 EST

''Ask rabidkoala. He knows of what exactly it is that i speak of.''

hehe, I'm so going to say that everytime anyone asks me ANYTHING. tehe.

I was merely commenting on the humourous edge to those words, I truly have no clue who rabidkoala (hehe) is and what this thread is about.
Explain please, because it sounds serious.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re: This thread is weird....
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 16:27:37 EST

well, I looked up tree spiking and i would like to be directed to have a look at the threads taht discussed it so i can have a read.
I am neutral at the moment because althougth i am all for enviromental action, i am not at all sure if tree spiking is affective etc. or if it hinders etc.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re: This thread is weird....
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 16:35:48 EST

This is starting to go towards dangerous turf Nelleh. i prefer to quash this discussion or take it to email.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
Re: This thread is weird....
Posted by Luciddreamer @ 2006-01-29 16:42:05 EST

Ok I can answer that, I think?.

Tree spiking is putting nails in trees so that these nailsinterfere with cutting the trees down.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: VGx8BndY+MHmTLR7MnCQag
Re: This thread is weird....
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 16:49:36 EST

"well, I looked up tree spiking and i would like to be directed to have a look at the threads taht discussed it so i can have a read."

No i even got booted off of the old Veggies Unite mb for some of my more typical transgressions. It's really no big deal.

Same "guacamole" different day... the ONLY voice of reason gets routinely and resoundly shouted down. For no good reason.

Of course back then i didn't know what a troll was, was Usenet was really about, or that people really had opinions that were worth a damn.

i wasteh down for teh material, and so were the others or so i thought. But i was wrong,,,as this turned out to be a gift from the heavens as it turns out..

To be honest these "events" occurred yonder years past, about the time i innocently but innocently wandered into a local library branch and much too much to my surprise, spied my first "real" Internet station freenet thingie, where i could willingly surf for free. It didn't look like a gimmick to me, and from all appearance appeared to be relatively hassle free. The money never bothered me at all. The threads in question appeared and disappeard long before google was even on the scene and Yahoo was just beginning to evolve into what it is today. And as for the racism thingie, i got "carded" by everyone, and i do mean everyone. I turned real nasty after that, such as you see me today.

i just don't "play" that shite.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
Somebody to Love
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 16:50:45 EST

nice boobs

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
Posted by Roethke @ 2006-01-29 17:39:20 EST

What's H/K?

Heckler & Koch?

Seriously, if you're trying to start a thread that deals with subversive issues or something I think you're going about it the wrong way. Maybe it's because this is all an in-joke that I never got in on.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 2f2YdXUMp5ueISCyeDpwWQ
Re:
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 17:53:30 EST

I feel left out too Roethke; or maybe that'd be just plain out. I don't get it.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re:
Posted by annabelle @ 2006-01-29 18:14:03 EST

what is everyone talking about??

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: RiAhUU92E8F50EeCpWQ1Nw
Best friend is a navy seal ??
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 18:18:59 EST

Let me quote Jesse "The Body" Ventura, Navy Seal, ex-Governor of Minnesota and politician extraordinaire..

"Until you've hunted man, you haven't hunted yet, because you need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."

Roethke you are starting to irritate me darhlink.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
Re: Best friend is a navy seal ??
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 18:26:43 EST

um...........no, i still don't get it.
Oh, fuck it, I don't care any more.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re: Best friend is a navy seal ??
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 18:55:45 EST

What's there to get Nelleh? Some people spend their entire life being obnoxious rude and condescending so of course they will never but never get it. Violence should never be part of the equation. That's one for the hollow heads out there that sometimes hang around. That's just so... pathetic. But making a career out of being pettyminded comes with a price, it's not hard to imagine. You must tame the beast within you, you should.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
Posted by Roethke @ 2006-01-29 19:58:42 EST

dragonfly, it is not my intention to irritate you, but if it is a side effect then I don't really care.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 2f2YdXUMp5ueISCyeDpwWQ
Re:
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 20:34:12 EST

what i mean is i do not get what you a refering to, what you wish to get accross, etc.; i reckon i missed the point somewhere along the line. are you for or against tree spiking then?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-29 20:50:35 EST

Roethke apology accepted. i don't like being rude to people i think you ought to know that by now.

Nelleh, again to continue this aspect of this topic is bad juju and totally meaningless. If i once made the statement that it is one's moral duty to spike trees, there are many who disagree with me, and strongly so, then it is beyond obvious where i stand on this issue. i didn't say those things for an easy paycheck, in fact it gets even worse.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: wt2BRJBQg5G9JQOqu4mxAg
Re:
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-29 20:53:39 EST

I will shut up now. Clearly I missed a conversion or two, or a point or two. But i shall cease to worry about it. You seem like a nice dude dragonfly and I hope my incessant questions have not peeved you too much.
;p

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
my 2 �
Posted by graham @ 2006-01-29 21:42:07 EST

Magellian
McKinley
Web Crawler

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: 5oYdC7kxdEVmDkUG4J1iYQ
Re: my 2 �
Posted by Jeff @ 2006-01-29 23:41:53 EST

Tree spiking is a cowardly act. It is designed to kill or maim people. Anybody who as ever spiked a tree....
Jeff

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: TJhyONTdqmtwGaaMbsyuUw
Re: my 2 �
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-01-30 10:16:12 EST

[[death threats online for stating that i thought spiking trees was a good thing.]]

I don't have a big problem with it except for the bad PR.

Nice boobs? Where?

[[presented by the boring and unrealistic classist/work ethic drivel t]]

When you work, you mostly work to enrich others. Otherwise they wouldn't call it profit.

[[Tree spiking is a cowardly act. It is designed to kill or maim people. Anybody who as ever spiked a tree...]]

As usual, Jeff runs his mouth without knowing all the details...

[[Forgive my ignorance. What is spiking trees?]]

Roethke, it's driving metal spikes into trees to keep them from being cut down. It would wreck the chainsaw and potentially could be dangerous to cut such a tree down. Spiking is done to save trees from being cut down. It only works though if the trees are visibly marked (spray painted). This way the lumberscum know not to cut that tree down. Sometimes they do it anyway. There have been one or two reports of people getting hurt. All because their stupidity/greed wouldn't let them leave that tree alone. They find the spikehole and cut to avoid it. Then they let the lumbermill guys take their chances.

It's probably orders from high up at corporate HQ. Because a few injured millworkers are just the martyrs needed to pronounce this as "eco terrorism".

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: X19vJtXsAYZZjyg2Oxh6aw
Re: my 2 �
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-30 10:36:30 EST

yeah, where are the boobs?

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re: my 2 �
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-30 15:39:30 EST

As usual Jeff i delete all comments from trolls and sissyboys. Don't bother to post here if you can't handle the truth.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: kp9E056vauDo9q50yEweww
Re: my 2 �
Posted by Jeff @ 2006-01-30 17:22:27 EST

Dragon Fly be I troll or sissyboy? What truth is it I can't handle? I read this thread because I was intereted in learning what you have to say.
Jeff

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: TJhyONTdqmtwGaaMbsyuUw
Re: my 2 �genesis oteh word sello"phane"sLUtEAser
Posted by Anonymous @ 2006-01-30 19:20:46 EST

Score: 0 (0 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Silver =10, gold=90, stripes be for knowledge, What"s up???

And what's up with that bullshit????

Huh??

i never went to high school but i gotta' alot to learn dude,,,,mmmmkay?

Michael please>>>don't cry when i hit you...again. Ha!

Cmaj7th, remember dearPrudunce???

That's why is it about "legal" issues, darling Sine..

[bottomfeeder flag=on]

Like "I" don't know that...

gimme a break my dearest dumbass,,

i "be" ever good....across the "street" that is!

It be lookin' so good to me, think 'bout it yerself 4way14play""

That's actually a B7 chord. Trust me.

"Think For Yourself" get it??

Sheesh.

[bottomfeeder flag=off]

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Anonymous
(no login)

No Imagination

No score for this post

January 30 2007, 6:43 PM

{ beatles fantasy album }

Re: so sorry anonymous but get some manners...
Posted by Nelleh @ 2006-01-26 15:15:59 EST

yeah, freedom can be pretty paradoxical...
any way, one of the best films ever is yellow submarine. the Beatles were a good thing for the world, plus Paul Mc Cartney's vegan!!

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: fkkpbOnjI1KlaxBFQqFB1w
Re: so sorry anonymous but get some manners...
Posted by Dagda Samildanc @ 2006-01-26 15:17:02 EST

I do like the Beatles.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: oqAgFN6g00t9shHnyuxyyw
Matthew Street Festival
Posted by cybervegan @ 2006-01-26 16:48:47 EST

This is held in Liverpool every year - not just in Matthew Street; it takes over the whole city centre. They have bands come from all over the world to play mostly Beatles tunes, with a bit of Rolling Stones thrown in for good measure. Some of the bands were great - I tended to like the ones that put a new slant on the songs better than the ones that faithfully reproduced Pingo's erratic drumming and Paul's lyrical forgetfulness. It still used to get a bit repetative hearing "love me do" 10 times in a day!

I've worked it thee times (doing Henna) and it's great - if you can stand the pissed scallies (liverpudlian chavs) and their leery, unfunny remarks and unctious behaviour... we hardly ever lost gear, doing about 10 festivals every summer, but we always had something stolen there. The biggest advantages were that it paid well and was just the other side of the Mersey Tunnel, a mere 20 minutes away from home (as it was).

Oh, for the record, the original "Cavern Club" is now a car park, though there's a repro club just next door that is supposed to be very similar.

cybervegan

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: IR6Mc+8bKxKt4x6r9s0mlw
so sorry anonymous but get some manners...
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-26 18:44:33 EST

...or learn how to think before you post in my journal. Puh-leeze. If you don't like what you see here then *takes deep breath & shakes fist at invisible god* don't post here, especially condescending and abusive gradeschool garbage i.e. "makes you look like a nutcase" & "why the partial lyrics?" & "why do you do this?"

Since you asked : Because i can.

gasp

Another thing that may have gone completely over your sappy worn-out little pc head: i don't care what you may think. Like really. Got it? Good.

These trollish comments are just throw-away remarks and are not constructive in any sense of the word. Translation: Eat shit and die moron.

Clearly you are not an intellectual, and yet somehow my posts leave a very bad taste in your mouth. Must be nice being simpleminded and a witless jerk all at the same time. Enough said.

But the idea behind this particular listing is this: I would like to hear these songs played on a radio station. Cosineder these to be alternate album mixes of popular Beatles songs.

edit: to remove the link reference and speciesist overtones of webpage

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: kp9E056vauDo9q50yEweww
Re: Matthew Street Festival
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-26 18:47:03 EST

Thank you cybervegan for the account of what happened to the Cavern Club.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: kp9E056vauDo9q50yEweww
Rubber Soul
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2006-01-26 21:35:32 EST

A tribute album to another album... Rubber Soul. How many albums get their own tribute album? Some are traditionally done, while others are different:

thisbirdhasflown.com/

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: X19vJtXsAYZZjyg2Oxh6aw
Re: Rubber Soul
Posted by dragonfly @ 2006-01-26 22:40:45 EST

Good point Sardonicus. Good album too. It's just so light-years beyond the typical bubble-gum/pop rock of that era, yet has a distinct folk music feel to it.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: /gRThYtATkuE3sq5S9PI3w

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BFTBOMK

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January 30 2007, 6:45 PM

BFTBOMK
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-12-23 16:47:56 EST
[H]aving been some days in preparation
a splendid time is guaranteed for all
And tonight Mr. Kite is topping the bill

[F]ollow her down to a bridge by a fountain
Where rocking horse people eat marshmallow pies
Everyone smiles as you drift past the flowers
that grow so incredibly high

Xmas set list :

(0) Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite (randomly insert after 1st set/use as header for 2nd and following sets)
(1) Blue Jay Way
(2) The Night Before
(3) Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)
(4) Paperback Writer
(5) Nowhere Man
(6) You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
(7) Happy Christmas (War Is Over)
(8) Don't Pass Me Bye (optional 1 set)
(9) Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds

Shorter Version :

Blue Jay Way
Happy Christmas (War Is Over)
Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)
Lovely Rita/The Night Before/Paperback Writer
Savoy Truffle
You've Got To Hide Your Love Away

Another version :

It's Only Love
Help
Rain
Don't Pass Me By
Tell Me Why
I'm Happy Just to Dance With You
Rocky Raccoon

This is your entry. You can edit it or delete it if you wish.
Witty Repartee - Add Yours
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2005-12-24 02:45:39 EST

thisbirdhasflown.com/

Dar Williams is on the album BTW.

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my feet are so heavy so is my head

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January 30 2007, 6:49 PM

my feet are so heavy so is my head
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-12-15 16:51:46 EST
This is your entry. You can edit it or delete it if you wish.
Witty Repartee - Add Yours
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2005-12-16 04:18:55 EST

The How CDs Work was very accurate. Though even I am unsure about the single-track claim (spiral). They need to explain better how a byte (8 bits) on a CD actually requires 14 bits to represent it.

CDs really need to be updated. The outer rotational speed should be held constant and the bitrate cranked so as to store more data on them. (More physical space at the outside of the disc means more datastoring capability)

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: X19vJtXsAYZZjyg2Oxh6aw
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-12-17 15:16:18 EST

Yes i definitely need a refresher course on the red book standard. The 6 bit overhead you make mention of might be for error correction.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: /gRThYtATkuE3sq5S9PI3w
How Cd's encode bits
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2005-12-18 00:36:43 EST

Sadly, that wasn't the case IIRC. The truth is far more disturbing.

I had a document on this topic from one of my journals when CDs were first coming out. It's a big myth that CD players read "pits" as 0's and peaks as 1's. If only it was that rational. What actually happens is that a transition from peak to pit signals a 1. I think it might way work the other way around (pit to peak) too. If I was warm enough to sit down with pencil and paper I could work it out in my head.

One would think it would require 2 bits to constitute a transition to generate a 1. That implies that to store 8 bits (one byte) you would need 16 bits. But they only use 14 its. Maybe the standard always assumes that the first bit-area on a sector is a peak (or untouched) and that any deviation constitutes a transition. So that gets us down to only needing 15 bits. If they make the same assumption about the last bit maybe they can get away with only needing 14 bits to store 8 bits. But I haven't sat down to figure this out to see if it would work.

I don't see wtf they don't just represent bits in a 1-for-1 fashion. The story behind that must be very interesting.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: X19vJtXsAYZZjyg2Oxh6aw
Re: How Cd's encode bits
Posted by woubit @ 2005-12-18 06:37:29 EST

Start here.

[Reply] [Delete] poster ID: J8QOC0X/gbgHVtLWR09PXA

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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March 15 2007, 12:47 PM

http://www.veganporn.com/1052281638.html

Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
*Posted by CB Anyone 2 @ 2007-02-24 18:24:33 EST*

That post was remarkably coherent franklanguage; therefore i will give a detailed answer to your query, even though you found it a little convenient to attack me on Wes's "poor me the sky is falling, anyway let's take this golden opportunity to attack dragonfly" thread.

Actually there is no good reason for me to be here. JasonHTD keeps dropping not so subtle hints that he plans to moderate and/or banish users somehow here.

That would mean me... but even so i don't buy the marketing "profile" of your average internet surfer as not too bright not too dumb yet wants to learn something about veganism ideal, so one can constantly dumb down entire discussions, entire websites, yes in fact even entire lives, to the lowest common denominator. That is truly insane something that i don't subscribe to and something i cannot comprehend.

That is not the way to take a careful look at human achievement, and to me this is not realistic in any sense of the word. I look for and desire human potential and creativity, in all it's manifold forms, beautiful and not mishapen, pure and resolute. I am surprised others don't see this. Maybe this idea scares the pants off of most people i don't know.

And he keeps sending me these corny emails, when he has so many losers here that actively diffuse the quality of discussions here, and purposefully ruin thread after thread. But in all fairness even though i don't agree with many of the things here on this board, and the authoritarian structure of this website, i also realize that this board is the closest one can come to the idealization of free speech and usually one can get pretty damn unpoetic before JasonHTD pulls the plug. But i digress.

Keep in mind that i didn't start posting here until i was a vegan.

So off i went. There must be an intelligent place on the WWW for vegans to have realisitic and down to earth discussions. And it must be an interesting place and easy to find. Alas! But i have been on this "journey" before...as void mcboy (read : the second class citizen) and as pre-veggie and veggie dragonfly99. You would think i would have learned my lesson by now! But as you will soon see this is not the case, ie. that freedom of expression and clever, informative and "down to earth" discussions are the norm everywhere on the Internet, the rule rather than the exception. I laugh at the apparent absurdity of this statement.

I have been to usenet... and i have witnessed the sorry and profane output of the trolls.

I have been to "big box" message boards... and directly witnessed the sorry garbage, the hateful domineering attitudes, the reckless concern, the pretended pc apathy, the worthless insights, but most of all the witless insanity that goes with a typical thread.

Somehow i ended up at the original veggieboads.com
1
2
as user no 15 or something, but it wasn't long before i was the victim of the typical unending and witless personal attacks. The usual, as you are fortunate enough to actually see here live and basically uncensored: i was always wrong, the others were always right, opens threats of censorship, wanton stupidity, no one could understand me, i need to learn how to read and write, the almost constant calls for my banning, yer not very smart, ocassional act of censorship, the most pointless discussions, the one-sided and hopelessly redundant personal attacks etc. The superficiality of all this was almost too much for me to take.

geeze they're just

*ideas* remember? i guess not. *cough*

Aha! But i learned something here... and that is that not everyone who claims to be a this or a that is not actually a this or a that, or in this case veggie. Everyone and their mother was a thoughtful and conscientious veggie, not a speck of cereal. I just couldn't resist, this was too stupid for words. cough Yes i am that thick headed..yes i knew that what i was doing was basically an exercise in stupididty and wasted enertgy...but....but...i have met way too many people in real life that just could not do the math, and i mean that literally. It wasn't hard for me to figure out that these people weren't veggies, therefore it was quite easy to determine that they had to have hatred and nothing more on the agenda, and that there could only be one underlying focus for all this open hatred, stupidity, lack of focus, witlessnes and condescension, trademark and forced non-discussion (read : think occam's razor) i mean it was so idiotic, but yet still real, these people must be either industry apologists, lobbyists or industry shills. This in my mind is beyond foolish i admit, still to this day i hope this sorry collection of misinformed and hateful pc cretins just disappear, yes just vanish into thin air. Again, this suggestion makes me want to laugh. Now I know better.

How stupid i am thinking to myself, after all if one can ignore the ethical concerns for a moment, this is just plain dumb. I am being attacked and actively harassed on an Internet message board because of what i chose to eat for dinner last night, nevermind the issue of beliefs and making reasonable choices and reasonable and acceptable behavior in the real world. Remember i am not making this up or adding unnecessary and bogus details here. This was no accident this does not paint a picture of your average moral and thoughtful citizen and competent human being. And to be honest i often wonder how many people miss this bit of self-induced realization.

This is my hole card. This is why dragonfly would seek to turn normal, and usually dull, unforgiving and doomed discussions on their ear, to twist them into unidentifiable shapes.

"Nobody can be that out to lunch" i said to myself. There can't be THAT many ignorant and clueless individuals on the face of the earth. But i was wrong of course. I finally abandoned that notion when i came here. You know the reason(s) why. To be brually honest this idea still causes me concern, and comes to life once in awhile.

So off i go. I reject other message boards for the craziest reasons or another and i can spot a troll a mile away. They are tolerated on other message boards as a fact of life of "doing" business on the WWW, but i don't accept this strange acceptance at face value. To me this is a form of criminal behavior. You have become the enemy. To accept your servitude and stupidity defaulting to the arrogance, stupidity and cluelessness of the others. That is not very smart or commendable behavior no matter how you cut it. It is careless behavior at best, surely something you will renounce or regret later.

It's part of being human.

The other message boards that i find unacceptable are:

veggieboards
vegan represent
govegan.net
veganfitness.net
korns veganforum
dave noisys pathetic ar-views.org

witness dave the authoritarian and bossy list owner:
groups.google.com/group/AR-News/browse_thread/thre ad/611daa70bc774b3b/4b6d9a874b94e08a
groups.google.com/group/AR-News/browse_thread/thre ad/2ee7e6bcac3a0688/69a4fc692831b350

veganviews group (read : where i was immediately banned caught nothing but peta bashing threads there with Patricia Feral strutting her anti-peta stuff, "even a broken clock is right twice a day" pretty sick if you ask me)
veganfreaks.org (read : just doesn't feel right and look at that mile-long moderator list)

I have a message board but no one visits the Glass Onion. I have asked several people here if they wanted to start another message board, always get a non-response or my suggestions are routinely ignored. Just like here.

But to summarize this mountain of basically unbelievable nonsense, i never said you or anyone else was a loser, but i did take the trouble to characterize discussions here as being yawnfests and veganporn as being a wimpfest but you would have to be blind or crazy not to realize this yourself.

So it isn't a question of me gravitating to losers, as you so selfishly and incoherently put it, it's a question of making a competent choice based on my notions of freedom, free speech and best using my abilitities to express my vegan viewpoints on the Internet. In other words how much i value my human tendencies and my human viewpoints.

Sorry if this was a bit long.

[Reply]
Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
Posted by Wes @ 2007-02-24 19:27:44 EST

You ever get the impression he doesn't like me?

[Reply]
Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
*Posted by CB Anyone 2 @ 2007-02-24 20:43:29 EST*

Wes you don't even figure as part of the equation. You got nasty once after i mistakenly attacked you on a thread about Carlos Casteneda, back when the likes of wigglefreed, mikethevegan, triddle, dave noisy and rain ran fast and loose on this board... and had a habit of not saying anything of any importance and whining about others supposed but mostly pretended aggression. But i even apologized you have not let up since. If you didn't claim to eat fish oil capsules on a regular basis and citing it as an absolute necessity and if you admitted that making your yuppie friendly exotic wood quilt art wasn't the most responsible thing to do on this planet then i would probably hold a fair amount of respect for you. Sometimes you even make sense, but all too often you seem all to eager to wallow in your shallow and subservient personal affronts and see-through assertions. It's almost a given with you. Which in any case should never be a substitute for polite, thoughtful and competent debate and discussion.

I find it interesting that you can seem to hold a grudge for many years here, against me of course, but seem totally incapable of thoughtful and intelligent debate, always making it a habit of resorting to gradeschool insults and meaningless offtipic ruminations, insights and dull and colorless conjecture.

I just can't imagine someone having a fair amount of musical ability and guitar skills, as you must certainly have, and yet relish playing the role of being such an irretrievable and shallow, pathetic and indifferent "let's see what tomorrow brings" gherk.

[Reply]
Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
Posted by Wes @ 2007-02-24 21:21:27 EST

That's a pretty involved response for someone who doesn't even figure in the equation.
Hell, I wasn't even talking to you

[Reply]
Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2007-02-25 09:52:53 EST

[[You ever get the impression he doesn't like me?]]

What goes around comes around.

[Reply]
Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
Posted by SealHunter @ 2007-02-25 14:49:40 EST

"Not really. Like you, I have little problem with lethality, under certain circumstances."
Sardonicus.

No b'y. I have no problem problems with lethality, under any circumstances. But you want to kill only to make you feel better, more powerful, or to make a political statement. If you weren't a Vegan and wanted to go hunting; if your attitude to the animals was the same as it is for humans...well, I'd blacken both your eyes.

[Reply]
Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
Posted by SealHunter @ 2007-02-25 14:51:24 EST

Problems with this GD computer; I have truck loads truck loads.

[Reply]
Re: worst nightmare? or totally clueless hypocrite
*Posted by CB Anyone 2 @ 2007-02-25 16:30:50 EST*

And frank language the sneering condescending tone of your aloof idiot-proof awe-inspiring classist remarks is duly noted. I addressed your point and directly, but that is hardly the issue here, it is obvious some people don't have any shame, any sense of guilt, a clear conscience or don't even possess a basic understanding of the real world.

Wes : Get off of your pity pot and stop talking smack behind my back then. You're acting like a little girl i find it hard to believe that you live a complete life.

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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May 15 2007, 9:21 AM

Vegan With Guns - A Sad Tale in Condo-Vision...
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-15 11:35:25 EST

I'm with Wes. Sardonicus you are lying. You bragged about your new 9 millimeter and went to great lengths to explain you were getting death threats and/or weird emails, that is why you purchased the gun. I remember it quited clearly sardy boy.

I think it's high time Jason booted your sorry ass from this board you are reflecting badly upon the rest of us here.

Upright citizen's brigade
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2007-05-15 11:45:59 EST

[[ I don't believe it was a squirt gun. ]]

You can claim to believe whatever you like. It wasn't a real firearm. That you couldn't tell then, and long after that revelation you still go on about it, makes it more amusing. Even though it's true status was no secret. I guess some of us were just enjoying the hysterics and forgot to send you the memo.

[[ I just thought that what you did was in extremely bad taste. ]]

Or rather, you want to believe it was a real gun so you can feign being righteously indignant?

[[ (Even if it was a squirt gun it was in extremely bad taste.) ]]

With you Wes, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Mr. Sardonicus and the Dragonfly
Posted by Chanterelle @ 2007-05-15 11:46:23 EST

Good lord, you guys, what happened?

Re: Vegan With Guns - A Sad Tale in Condo-Vision..
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2007-05-15 11:49:25 EST

[[ There are people who need mental help and jail does absolutely nothing positive for them, there are people who shouldn't be there in the first place ]]

Indeed. Which is why I think the system needs to be fixed before we hand out death penalties for 3-time litterbugs.

[[ Sardonicus you are lying. You bragged about your new 9 millimeter and went to great lengths to explain you were getting death threats and/or weird emails, that is why you purchased the gun. I remember it quited clearly sardy boy ]]

How about you email me that message to refresh my memory, hmmm?

Re: Upright in Ithaca, blame it on Wes, continued
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-15 11:54:27 EST

Sardonicus the only thing that isn't real is your childish see-through explanation and squirming denials. Seriously man... what would possess you to display a picture of someone holding a squirt gun in a threatening manner in front of a computer screen with a screenshot of a response to a post by Wes, possibly you? The fact is you already bragged that it was a gun and that you bought it for protection.

It looked like the real thing... it sure weren't no cap gun i'll tell you that up front...i have had the "pleasure" of holding one of those in my hands once or twice, upon occasion.

Your "revelations" make little sense, you explanations aren't even remotely credible.

Why expend so much "energy" on a pointless admission, or worse yet an unfeasible "it's only a squirt gun peeps" denial, when we all know better? I hope you return to your usual self shortly this is insane.

Re: Upright in Ithaca, blame it on Wes, continued
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-15 12:10:27 EST

Good lord, you guys, what happened?

What are you talking about Chanterelle? Sardonicus is making unrealistic statements, is backpedalling, lying through his teeth, displaying a selective memory, issuing regrettable and beyond phoney denials... in short displaying the behaviour he openly criticizes others for.

Criticizing others is one thing, playing the role of the courageous and macho "militant" vegan is another... but these open threats of physical violence and calls for the "culling" and/or murder of basically pathetic and brainwashed individuals is another thing, is spiteful, is hateful, and is uncalled for, is dangerous, and is basically more trouble than it's worth.

His attempts at controlling others, from the safety of the keyboard and his pc lifestyle, and his "mild" threats of violence against anyone who dares to cross him, and in particular selfish "head in the sand" omnivores is spectacular, is unforgiving if nothing else, but really an eyesore that reflects badly upon the others here. And is seriously degrading the quality of these message boards.

For example there was no need not to answer my emails, when i merely asked him for advice and materials for doing vegan outreach at the last peace march. But that is what he did.

Maybe Sardonicus is not the real thing. It is possible. And i don't like racists. I am finding it hard to ignore the suggestion that Sardonicus is a racist and has a convoluted and biased impression of the world around him. If that is so then he is not only a danger to himself, but to the world around him, innocent bystanders, etc.

Such hateful rhetoric from such a small and pitiful mind. Earth First! toilet paper indeed. Sardonicus is his own worst enemy and doesn't even realize it.

In fact inspect the language in his previous incarnation as nondairycreamer. www.veganporn.com/users/NonDairyCreamer Now keep in mind that it is possible that Sardonicus is somebody else and just micked his style. Of course i realize this. But there are similarities that are hard to just dismiss out of hand.

The truth is not for sale at any cost.

If you decide to delete my entries please warn me first.

Re: Vegan With Guns - A Sad Tale in Condo-Vision..
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-15 12:17:36 EST

How about you email me that message to refresh my memory, hmmm?

Unnecessary sardy my boy.. besides you don't answer my emails anymore. Something about i insulted you before the peace march. Foulmouthed. Candyass. Fake.

I can see now that you are bigjamesone material. Selfish. Incourageous. Domineering.

Wes and myself are on the same page. I think that Jason deleted the thread after TRP complained. But i will see what i can do.

http://www.veganporn.com/1052282371.html

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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

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May 31 2007, 3:45 PM

"My Response to Johanna" Wow. Just...wow.
Posted by SonOfBuzzard @ 2007-05-30 16:14:47 EST
Here is Gary Francione's blog post of today.

http://garyfrancione.blogspot.com/2007/05/my-response-to- johanna.html

This is probably going to agitate Buzzard, wouBurn, flutterby, Wes, and some of the other anti-vegans, but those interested in clear thinking about vegan advocacy will, I am sure, appreciate it.

Re: Desperate
Posted by James101 @ 2007-05-30 18:35:26 EST

Most of us come to veganism in steps, starting with the awareness that many animal welfare organizations provide.

The welfare groups advertize the exploiters and promote certain animal uses as normatively desirable and certain systems of domination and exploitation as "humane." People like Gary Francione and Bob Torres give an unequivocal vegan message. Yet you infer from this that the welfare groups are the ones priming the public for veganism. Very odd. Although the welfare groups do convert some people to veganism, it is prima facie plausibe to suppose that -- as a general matter -- they consolidate the pervasively accepted view that animal use is acceptable, since they plough most of their resources into convincing people that they are making exploitation more "humane," something that makes people feel more comfortable about exploitation. And even the people they do convert to veganism are always in danger of reverting to animal products. Because the welfarists tell people that exploitation is wrong because it is "cruel," people naturally think that it's acceptable to revert to animal products once the "cruelty" has been eliminated. Now the welfare groups are always telling people about their great advances in making exploitation more "humane." So they tell people that exploitation is wrong because it is "cruel" and then tell them that they've made exploitation more "humane," thereby convincing people that it's okay to revert back to eating animal products because the locus of the wrong -- the "cruelty" -- has supposedly been dealt with.

In short, the "achievements" of the welfarists are nothing but pseudo-achievement: they contrast animal welfare and animal exploitation, and then assimilate them by promoting certain animals uses (e.g. cage-free eggs) as being compatible with animal welfare; they locate the wrong of animal use in its "cruelty," and then senselessly undermine that by telling people that they've made exploitation more "humane"; they do nothing to shift the paradigm but rather consolidate it.

Thus to suggest that the welfare orgs are the ones who are converting the general public and laying the foundations of the animal rights movement is nothing short of absurd. The people who are doing that are the ones engaging in clear and unequivocal vegan education -- people like Gary Francione and Bob and Jenna Torres and groups like Peaceful Prairie.

His arguments get weaker and more pathetic with every post, no wonder comments are disabled and he hides in the safety of his sycophants.

Gary is the one who takes part in public internet debates. Where are the new welfarist "leaders"? Gary has said publicly that he will debate the new welfarist "leaders" all at the same time. We are just waiting for them to set a date. But I fear that we'll have a long wait.

Re: Desperate
Posted by Buzzard @ 2007-05-30 18:39:56 EST

Gary is the one who takes part in public internet debates.

Except when he's losing, you mean?

Posted by flutterby @ 2007-05-30 19:12:18 EST

Those in this first group are not, by definition, going to be willing to pay more for foods that are marketed as being produced in a more "humane" manner.

Maybe those in the "first group" will not be, but a sizable percentage of omnivores is willing to pay more for humanely produced meat and dairy. This includes many people who will never go vegan. So... which type of meat would you prefer them to consume?

Re: "Johanna" Wow. Just...wow.
Posted by SonOfBuzzard @ 2007-05-30 20:10:05 EST

flutterby: Are you referring to non-vegan elites like you, who will pay a few cents more for insignificant change so that you can ease your conscience by deluding yourself into thinking that you are being a "conscientious omnivore"? That's a market about which we should really be concerned.

Why don't you just go vegan, you repulsive little hypocite?

Re: "Johanna" Wow. Just...wow.
Posted by Buzzard @ 2007-05-30 20:14:32 EST

Why don't you just go vegan, you repulsive little hypocite?

Now, there's a tactic that's sure to work. How many thank-you letters have you gotten, SOB?

Re: Desperate
Posted by SonOfBuzzard @ 2007-05-30 20:22:37 EST

For those interested:

What our Buzzard is referring to can be found on two threads on Satya:

http://pub38.bravenet.com/forum/3182297110/show/619628
http://pub38.bravenet.com/forum/3182297110/show/616731

In the former, a poster named "Michael Cooper", who was not registerd (i.e., was posting without an email), attempted to engage Francione. (This is a thread that our own wouBurn, posting as "David Burn" participated.)

In the latter, another nobody named "Hoss Firooznia" (who comes across as in need of medication) attempted to engage Francione.

"Cooper" and "Firooznia" were mentioned with praise by cage-free egg king, Erik Marcus, whose intelligence-challenged posterior was badly kicked in his debate with Francione. (For those who wish to understand the meaning of "inhumane slaughter", you might wish to listen to that debate:

garyfrancione.blogspot.com/2007/02/my-dinner-at-er iks-happy-meat-diner.html)

If you are interested, please read the Satya threads. Make your own judgments. Do not accept my characterizations, and certainly do not accept those of non-vegans Buzzard, woBurn, flutterby, Wes, Seal Killer, etc. Actually, what I think you will see is that the anti-abolitionist/anti-vegans on Satya are no different from the Buzzardians on this list. Indeed, they are all sock puppets.

IMHO, it will be clear why Erik Marcus lost an enormous number of listeners to his podcast after the Francione debate and why Vegan Freaks, which promoters an abolitionist approach, has become the #1 vegan podcast.

Professor Francione has stated publicly that he told Marcus that he could have Shapiro, Pacelle, Newkirk, Singer, or anyone else that he wanted to assist him in the "debate". Marcus chose to go it alone, apparently not realising that he was no match for Francione.

Also, Professor Torres of Vegan Freak offered to moderate a debate between Professor Francione and Professor Singer. Francione agreed. Singer refused. Francione and Singer did debate at Hahnemann Medical College in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA, some years ago. I was in that audience and I can assure you that Francione did to Singer what he did to Marcus. I am not surprised that Singer refused a second debate.

Re: "Johanna" Wow. Just...wow.
Posted by SonOfBuzzard @ 2007-05-30 20:31:05 EST

wouBurn, Buzzard, and flutterby

It reminds me of an idiotic American comedy team--The Three Stooges--that I saw when I lived in the States. I think the names of the Stooges were Moe, Larry, and Curly.

Buzzard, wouBurn, and flutterby--the Three Stooges of non-veganism.

Maybe we could make an application to see if we could include Wes as an honourary fourth Stooge.

A Fifth Stooge?
Posted by SonOfBuzzard @ 2007-05-30 21:11:05 EST

I disagree with every point that dragonfly has raised here. Dragonfly seems full of himself and seems to try to deflect others' arguments by making sloppy and irrelevant comparisons.

Dragonfly now in circle jerk with wouBurn
Posted by SonOfBuzzard @ 2007-05-30 21:46:39 EST

Dragonfly:

You obviously missed the parallel construction of my comment. Nevermind, it's okay.

I must say that I am disappointed with you. Your earlier comments on Vegan Freak looked suspicious to me. You claimed you had never seen the site, but then you made representations about what was and was not going on there. It looked suspicious.

I have talked with some folks and it appears as though you lied about Vegan Freak in several respects.

Shame on you.

Re: wouBurn announces delete policy
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2007-05-31 03:46:36 EST

All this vegan fratricide makes me long for the days where I would suggest a final solution to the meat-eater problem and then people would call me a militant.

Posted by Jason HT Doucette @ 2007-05-31 09:57:42 EST

SonOfBuzzard, can you kindly stop re-wording other user's nicknames (i.e. "wouBurn")?

Cheers,
JD

Re: question on TOS
Posted by SonOfBuzzard @ 2007-05-31 10:53:54 EST

Excuse me, but I assume you are the moderator? Is that correct?

If so, can I please ask you what criteria you use to decide what is and what is not appropriate?

I am confused because I am new here and it appears as though you allow an identifiable group of non-vegan, anti-vegan people to say whatever they want. I am, therefore, a tad surprised that you jump into action when David Burn, a non-vegan who is positively hostile to veganism and who calls everyone names, makes a complaint.

Can you please tell me why "re-wording other users' nicknames" is the trigger for your involvement? My re-wording is not obscene and it is not racist, sexist, or homophobic.

I am unclear about this and would like to understand better what the rules are.

Please understand that if you are the moderator, I understand this is your board and I will respect your rules. I would just sincerely appreciate an explanation so that I can make sure that the TOS are applied in an even-handed manner.

And if it is all just arbitrary at your discretion, I'd like to know that as well. It would, however, seem puzzling that you would not have exercised any such broad discretion to maintain this as a place for the discussion of vegan issues by vegans and the vegan-friendly rather than a place for anti-vegan, non-vegan types to sputter forth on why anyone who does not eat animal products is a mental defect of some sort.

Re: question on TOS
Posted by Jason HT Doucette @ 2007-05-31 16:19:43 EST

"Moderator" is probably too strong a word - the VP community does more work in this area than I do, but at the end of the day, I'm the guy with the keys to the server.

I apologize for my brevity, and for not welcoming you to the site when you first arrived, but it's been an unusually busy week. In regards to the username re-wording, there's some history there, but the short answer is that whenever I make a rule, I inevitably get called out for not enforcing it evenly. There was a time when that rule was needed, and it happens to be an easy one to implement. There you go.

You've probably got a different idea of what VP is about than I do, and that's a failure on my part. Dealing with these kinds of misconceptions is rapidly rising to the top of my non-work to do list, second only to 3 consecutive hours of sleep, but I will quickly bring your attention to the paragraph on top of every comment form on the site, which you've seen over 130 times so far: "While vegan focused, VP welcomes input from anyone interested in participating in a constructive, co-operative, and respectful conversation, regardless of diet." I regret that I don't have time right now to debate what constitutes constructive, co-operative, or respectful, but I'd appreciate it if you could keep things civil, and I hope you've enjoyed the challenges of so many differing opinions surrounding the topic you've brought to the site.

Cheers,
JD

PS - replies to this will be read, but I may not be able to respond for a bit. I do, however keep an eye on discussions, so please don't mistake my lack of participation for apathy. Email works best if you (or anyone else) has a specific question or concern.

PPS - brevity ain't what it used to be, eh?

Re: question on TOS
Posted by Anonymous @ 2007-05-31 16:43:10 EST

Score: -3 (3 votes) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Wow. Just...wow.

So woubit gets to call SonOfBuzzard "sociopathic" but SonOfBuzzard gets called on it by you when he uses "wouBurn" to refer to "woubit." How very offensive. How requiring your censorship.

People get to defame Bob Torres, Jenna Torres, Gary Francione, and anyone else who promotes veganism.

Someone named "dragonfly" gets to say to Bob Torres:

"In short you are a desperate and dull-minded asshole."

And the ONLY time you step in is when "woubit," a non vegan poster who argues constantly against veganism, cries to you.

Like, what's the deal?

Re: question on TOS
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-31 16:57:43 EST

The deal is this Anonymous Clown. veganfreak did a hit and run here and went out of his way to mischarcterize and distort the discussion here and remarks that i have made, and also found it convenient to engage in personal attack. I have every right to call veganfreak an asshole. I don't buy his "feel good" "free speech advocate" act.

A real vegan with a real conscience with a real vegan website who wrote a real book about veganism wouldn't have stooped to such obscenely low levels, to only sling mud and distort issues, would have better things to do and wouldn't deny the accusation of censorship.

That's the deal.

Re: question on TOS
Posted by Anonymous @ 2007-05-31 17:44:51 EST

Score: -1 (1 vote) Your vote: No opinion Good (+1) Evil (-1)
Yo, is this the same dragonfly who posted:

Vegans and vegetarians that can't hack it...
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-04-12 21:07:35 EST
like me... since i'm going to jail for drug "abuse" charges i might as well enjoy myself.

Just tryin' to figure whether you are on a drug binge today or whether you're straight.

Can ya tell us?

Re: question on TOS
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-31 18:07:32 EST

Yo, this is hopelessly irrelevant to the discussion at hand Anonymous Coward. Besides which it's totally none of your business.

Re: eh?
Posted by onebigjames @ 2007-05-31 18:13:13 EST

And the ONLY time you step in is when "woubit," a non vegan poster who argues constantly against veganism.

woubit engages what is commonly called dialectic, if you can't answer then you need to think.

it's the basis of western philosophy for the last 2000years you may of heard of it!

Re: soft in the head
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-31 18:36:21 EST

Who are you talking too and what are you trying to say onebigjames? Seriously it's hard to tell, i don't only step in when woubits around. According to wikipedia dialectic produces rational and logical discourse. I have yet to see that here in abundance, especially with woubit who likes to hide in the bushes and attack vegans and veganism at random. Engaging in specious and foolhardy personal attacks and witless non-discussion, as some regulars and others are fond of doing, is hardly the basis for thorough and thought provoking discussions and competent exchanges of ideas. So once again i don't see what you are tyring to say. I merely took the time to notice that he did make some sense in the Satya threads. But you're right, woubit is ever the opportunist, seemingly only able to mount superficial and nonsensical attacks against vegans, veganism and sheepishly attack ARA issues, seemingly at random.

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Anonymous
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Buzzard says... or Buzzard the pseudo-troll cont...

No score for this post

May 31 2007, 5:05 PM

Buzzard says... or Buzzard the pseudo-troll cont...

Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-29 16:41:03 EST
Buzzard unmasked:

SonOfBuzzard : Moreover, did you not read The Way We Eat?

Buzzard : Of course I did, fool. Did you?

SonOfBuzzard : If so, please re-read the section, "The Conscientious Omnivores," at pages 83-183.

Buzzard : Why? Does he say somewhere in that section that being a conscientious omnivore is a morally defensible position?

That appears to be a usenet troll style response. Explains alot. Notice how Buzzard can't defend a single point s/he is trying to raise and only manages to hurl insults and make meaningless and illogical arguments, disguised as thick and competent debate. Obviously Buzzard is lying.

Posted by Buzzard @ 2007-05-29 17:59:19 EST

So nice to see you've found a kindred spirit, dragonfly.

buzzard not very smart, it appears...
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-29 18:17:33 EST

Irrelevant.

Re:
Posted by Buzzard @ 2007-05-29 18:49:30 EST

What do you mean?

Re: buzzard not very smart, it appears...
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-29 18:54:36 EST

Again irrelevant.

At least your trollish behavior speaks for itself.

Posted by seitanist @ 2007-05-29 18:59:42 EST

let's be nice, pretty please!

try to stay on topic, please...
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-29 19:03:00 EST

Would it be okay if i called you a fool seitanist? The question answers itself.

Re: try to stay on topic, please...
Posted by seitanist @ 2007-05-29 20:02:00 EST

i also brought up the idea of being nice in that thread.

Re: try to stay on topic, please...
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-05-29 20:26:42 EST

Define this idea of yours of being nice. And explain why i should be nice to Buzzard, she is very confused, illogical and irritating, like a spoiled and very ignorant child.

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Anonymous
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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

No score for this post

June 25 2007, 3:12 PM

John stepped back from the bit of gardening he had just completed. He was happy and his roses looked oh so nice. He looked around. He saw his friend Freedoh walking down the street, whistling...
Witty Repartee - Add Yours
Posted by mikethevegan @ 2005-03-19 20:24:09 EST

Freedoh's covetousness had always bothered bothered John, particularly where his roses were concerned. And his wife, for that matter, but John was confident they'd put that ugliness behind them. John glanced across the street at Freedoh's adequate but hardly stunning bed of Clytemnestras, then back at his own prize-winning collection. He smiled cheerily to Freedoh, wondering all the while if Freedoh was going to ask for yet another clipping.

[Reply]
Posted by Anonymous @ 2005-03-19 20:27:56 EST
Score: 0 (2 votes)
Just then Mr. Wonderful pulled up in his car, all smiles and waves...

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by Poly @ 2005-03-21 05:53:45 EST

Mr. Wonderful, having recently relocated from the small town of Elburn IL, had come into fortune when his great Aunt Ducky was mauled to death by an Elgin(TM) Street Cleaner.

Mitchell Wonderful, himself, was in fact a bastard child, brought into this world in the year nineteen-hundred and seventy-two, on a kitchen table in Kenosha Wisconsin, being the biological mishap of a sordid union between his mother Margaret Wonderful and Schmeldon Von Schlitzenacht, the original brewer of Schlitz Beer.

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by wigglefree @ 2005-03-22 01:31:00 EST

Freedoh's roots lay in more conservative soil. Both his mother and the man who sired him were a part of a little known, and short-lived androgyny project at the famed Xerox labs of Los Altos California. One of the few misguided social experiments that the once edifying labs had taken on. Other than serving as a conduit to bridge his parent's hearts, it seemed that the experiment was a total loss at producing any meaningful science. Unlike a mean case of priapism, it lasted no longer than five minutes before falling flaccid in front of the expectant eyes of the scientific community. And as fate would have it, Freedoh suffered from testicular feminization, which tormented him through much of his early years as he wandered in a mire of understated sexual identities. He often lay awake at night cursing the effect of coping toner on the developing male gonads. Little did he know that this challenge would one day yield one brave hermaphrodite hero. Yes, one day Freedoh found his internal flower.

...And his whole life changed.

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by Poly @ 2005-03-22 02:59:26 EST

It would be many years before Freedoh and Mr. Wonderful would bump into eachother at the small counter of Rubin's Redhots on Ventura Blvd., in Sherman Oaks, California. An incident that would have an effect on so many planes of existence, matching, in a sense, the extreme impact of the theoretical union of matter and anti-matter, in this dimension of Thirds.

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-03-22 16:43:56 EST

Mr. Wonderful stopped dreaming. He knew Freedoh to be a clever and resourceful guy. In fact what John believed to be a sorry display of Clymenstras were instead a collection of award winning roses, carefully tended to each and every day. But his backyard was another story.

Freedoh waved at John. "Hi John, how's the garden" Freedoh spoke almost as an afterthought. His words precise, his tone clear, his demeanor friendly.

"Oh, just fine" was the typical response.

There was more to John than meets the eye, that's for sure. Freedoh conjectured some more, and decided that his beautiful garden in the front yard didn't need too much work at the moment. Sunlight was spilling into the yard, adding warmth and energy to an already lush and serene environment. He returned into his house, his morning cup of coffee still warm, the radio still playing. He was in a great mood and it was a beautiful spring day. The closing strains of a pop classic faded into the background, creating an almost surreal atmosphere...

[Reply]
Posted by dragonfly @ 2005-07-22 19:45:15 EST

creating an almost unreal atmosphere...

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-03-12 12:20:41 EST

Lounging around on the front lawn, Freedoh feared that he was getting fat... and lazy. But nothing could be further from the truth.

Looking in the sky Freedoh thought he saw a chessboard... or was it a diamond? "screw this" Freedoh said unto hisself, "i need a cup of coffee!"

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by Anonymous @ 2007-03-12 13:21:27 EST
Score: 0 (0 votes)
He paused, wondering now if coffee, that wonderful, warm old friend that saw him through the thick and thin of life could now be dangerous to him and...
He dared not even think it, as if he could stop the gestation by halting his own mind. He was frozen in panic and even a small glimmer of hope. "Perhaps it would do damage." He had heared that coffee was no longer considered at all safe for a fetus and was placed on a ban list by the government and even could not be bought once a pregnancy was detected by the morning urine. He would not be on that list, he couldnt, it wouldnt even register. "If not coffee he thought then what..."

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-03-12 14:39:32 EST

"This is worse than i thought" he mused, now approaching his front door to his humble abode. He wandered into the house, almost aimlessly, admiring the Picasso print that hung upon his wall. He almost wanted to make a face now but thought better of it. He turned. He threw a 45 on the turntable, Nowhere Man. Because he likes the way it sounds..

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by James Smart @ 2007-03-13 00:41:58 EST

Even when it skipped just before the two minute mark. All it took was a slight bump, then all was well. Better the monaural funk of 60's vinyl than the sterility of digital audio.

"I'm hungry", he thought, so he decided to order some Chinese food. He wanted to feed himself into a stupor, because his love life had gone into the dumpster over the past few months."Better than getting drunk", he supposed.

Time to flip the single over. The Beatles always were good for putting two good songs on a slab of black plastic.

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-03-13 12:35:01 EST

Freedoh was now taken up in a fit of laughter, laughing hysterically almost uncontrollably. He was sitting at a table with Homer Simpson, Marge, Bart, Montgomery Burns, Smithers, Ned Flanders, Martin, Ralph Wiggum and Lisa, and they were all laughing their heads off. There was just no end in sight. Freedoh calmly reached for the switch and turned the projector off. The movie screen was now blank no images to be found. The rest of them just kept laughing uncontrollably.

"See, this piece of hardware isn't functioning properly" Freedoh said to no one in particular.

The rest just kept laughing. They thought it was funny.

Freedoh approached the turntable, and removed two 45 records from the turntable, Nowhere Man and Run For Your Life. He chuckled to himself. "Gotta make another run to Frys" Freedoh mused. His hunger would have to wait..

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by dragonfly @ 2007-04-07 21:15:52 EST

There was just no second guessing the music industry in those days. Yes those little slabs of black plastic were cheap, in comparison, yes it was next to impossible to find good songs to put on these round pieces of vinyl, and yes recording artists were a dime a dozen, not too many were very good even by loose standards, not too many song writers and performers were dependable, and virtuosos were even fewer and farther in between. That was just a cold hard statistical fact. In short those with music talents were a rare catch... but still there was an art and a science to putting decent songs on vinyl records, even the widly popular 45's.

Like the one Freedoh now had in his hand.

He looked at the label. Nowhere Man it said, what a crazy title Freedoh mused to no one in particular. He turned it over.

There was a lot of debate in those days about which song would go where, who would have the final say so and all that. The Nowhere Man single was an interesting example of this, and shows how the music industry really works inside and out.

The original songwriters wanted to put a strangely uplifting but strong tune on the B side, as it was known in industry circles, a fairly obscure title called I'm So Tired. A perfect fit the artists would claim. But the fact is the song was just too long, it didn't fit given the limitations of the record itself, and wasn't what many would consider to be the perfect match. Another obscure track called Love You To was decided upon, it had certain qualities and was a catch tune if nothing else. They went with that.

But at the last minute the selection was changed to a song called The Void, which was then later renamed Tomorrow Never Knows. The reasons for this remain unclear, the music industry works in strange ways, artists like to cover their tracks, and that shield of mystery never hurt sales... or performance...

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by James Smart @ 2007-04-07 23:30:20 EST

And tomorrow DIDN'T know,either, for bright and early the next day, a mysterious figure in a trench coat knocked at Freedoh's door....

[Reply]
Re:
Posted by Sardonicus @ 2007-04-08 03:05:09 EST

And a voice said "Candygram".

"I'm a diabetic".

The voice came again, "Telegram".

[Reply]

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Rabid K
(no login)

Helllloooooo?

No score for this post

June 25 2007, 5:10 PM

Hey D.F.,

I went looking for you at veganporn to say Hi and there is no more veganporn.

Anyway, "HI", hope all is going OK. That's all.

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Anonymous
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Re: veganpornuserdeletions

No score for this post

July 2 2007, 2:57 PM

[quote=ɐɹpuɐɥɔɐs?
- [quote=breathe]You have too many rude, overbearing and belligerent moderators here. I have been threatened more than once here over harmless posts. If this is what veganism represents to you then there isn't alot to say.[/quote]
I have no idea what you're talking about.[/quote]

Oh you don't, eh? Well let me clear some things up for you then. Eppys slight wasn't hard to miss, i very politely called him an ass, i was told to chill out.. by i suppose yet another

braindamaged & moronic

moderator. Add in the closed Peta bashing threads, where i was clearly insulted numereous times by Pamela, yet threatened, again by a moderator, when i returned the favor, criticized over using images, etc., and all i can see is a recipe for disaster.

And that's at least twice moderators have lowered the boom on me, and/or told me to chill out and/or "instructed" me to tone down what i say and/or i will close this thread, etc. etc. And i've only been here for reals less than a month.

Also it's okay to bash peta then close threads, but to bash a trash metal band like Dio is a no no? And then be insulted by not one, but two moderators? Come on Isa i have better things to do. In other words i'm not allowed to speak my mind, and we live in a world were vegans are treated as second class citizens and labelled as terrorist by the justice department. I thought you were the real thing.

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Anonymous
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more crap from Isa Chandra of theppk

No score for this post

July 2 2007, 3:57 PM

Isa:I really think that you're over reacting and it has absolutely nothing to do with veganism. There is no polite way to call someone an ass for starters, and all Eppy was doing was quoting Dio to you. What is the big deal? I know that you have a history of doing stuff like this on other message boards, so the problem may not be with us, but with you. I think I have explained before why the things you were saying in the Peta threads was innappropriate. No one said they were going to close the Dio thread. I have a feeling that you just want to fight. Everyone else seems to be able to get their points across without resorting to insults and name calling, why is it so hard for you? Please don't act like you are being singled out and oppressed, no one has any reason to do that to you. Why is this the part that you want to play?

dragonfly/breathe: Isa really i have better things to do. This isn't about Dio it's about your team of

moronic and selfish

moderators that are empowered to hurl insults and lock threads at their discretion and harass others. My behavior on other message boards? Puh-leeze... the problem is on your end.

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Anonymous
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even more self-righteous blather from Isa Chandra of theppk

No score for this post

July 2 2007, 5:57 PM

[quote=IsaChandra][quote=breathe][quote=ɐɹpuɐɥɔɐs�][quote=breathe]
Oh you don't, eh? Well let me clear some things up for you then. Eppys slight wasn't hard to miss, i very politely called him an ass, i was told to chill out.. by i suppose yet another moderator. Add in the closed Peta bashing threads, where i was clearly insulted numereous times by Pamela, yet threatened, again by a moderator, when i returned the favor, criticized over using images, etc., and all i can see is a recipe for disaster.

And that's at least twice moderators have lowered the boom on me, and/or told me to chill out and/or "instructed" me to tone down what i say and/or i will close this thread, etc. etc. And i've only been here for reals less than a month.

Also it's okay to bash peta then close threads, but to bash a trash metal band like Dio is a no no? And then be insulted by not one, but two moderators? Come on Isa i have better things to do. In other words i'm not allowed to speak my mind, and we live in a world were vegans are treated as second class citizens and labelled as terrorist by the justice department. I thought you were the real thing.[/quote]
I really think that you're over reacting and it has absolutely nothing to do with veganism. There is no polite way to call someone an ass for starters, and all Eppy was doing was quoting Dio to you. What is the big deal? I know that you have a history of doing stuff like this on other message boards, so the problem may not be with us, but with you. I think I have explained before why the things you were saying in the Peta threads was innappropriate. No one said they were going to close the Dio thread. I have a feeling that you just want to fight. Everyone else seems to be able to get their points across without resorting to insults and name calling, why is it so hard for you? Please don't act like you are being singled out and oppressed, no one has any reason to do that to you. Why is this the part that you want to play?[/quote]
Isa really i have better things to do. This isn't about Dio it's about your team of moderators that are empowered to hurl insults and lock thread at their discretion and harass others. My behavior on other message boards? Puh-leeze... the problem is on your end.[/quote]
Just for the record, we have had 5 threads locked in 2 years and only one complaint about moderators, yours. We have also only ever banned 2 people ever. I think we are doing pretty good.[/quote] Funny that i was on at least 2 of those threads. There is no excuse for the actions of your moderators and unnecessary and childish harassment they have aimed in my direction. Since we both agree that this board is not a good fit for me, that will be the end of it and i will be leaving. [quote=IsaChandra][quote=breathe][quote=ɐɹpuɐɥɔɐs�][quote=breathe]
Oh you don't, eh? Well let me clear some things up for you then. Eppys slight wasn't hard to miss, i very politely called him an ass, i was told to chill out.. by i suppose yet another moderator. Add in the closed Peta bashing threads, where i was clearly insulted numereous times by Pamela, yet threatened, again by a moderator, when i returned the favor, criticized over using images, etc., and all i can see is a recipe for disaster.

And that's at least twice moderators have lowered the boom on me, and/or told me to chill out and/or "instructed" me to tone down what i say and/or i will close this thread, etc. etc. And i've only been here for reals less than a month.

Also it's okay to bash peta then close threads, but to bash a trash metal band like Dio is a no no? And then be insulted by not one, but two moderators? Come on Isa i have better things to do. In other words i'm not allowed to speak my mind, and we live in a world were vegans are treated as second class citizens and labelled as terrorist by the justice department. I thought you were the real thing.[/quote]
I really think that you're over reacting and it has absolutely nothing to do with veganism. There is no polite way to call someone an ass for starters, and all Eppy was doing was quoting Dio to you. What is the big deal? I know that you have a history of doing stuff like this on other message boards, so the problem may not be with us, but with you. I think I have explained before why the things you were saying in the Peta threads was innappropriate. No one said they were going to close the Dio thread. I have a feeling that you just want to fight. Everyone else seems to be able to get their points across without resorting to insults and name calling, why is it so hard for you? Please don't act like you are being singled out and oppressed, no one has any reason to do that to you. Why is this the part that you want to play?[/quote]
Isa really i have better things to do. This isn't about Dio it's about your team of moderators that are empowered to hurl insults and lock thread at their discretion and harass others. My behavior on other message boards? Puh-leeze... the problem is on your end.[/quote]
Just for the record, we have had 5 threads locked in 2 years and only one complaint about moderators, yours. We have also only ever banned 2 people ever. I think we are doing pretty good.[/quote]everything is relative.Funny that i was on at least 2 of those threads. There is no excuse for the actions of your moderators and unnecessary and childish harassment they have aimed in my direction. Since we both agree that this board is not a good fit for me, that will be the end of it. Yeah and why don't you do something about my complaint, instead of just pointing more insults at me? Oh and the fact that peta-bashing Pamela has over 11000 posts here says alot. the ppk is yet another sham pseudo-vegan site, where no one takes vegans and AR seriously. Good luck you spineless anti-vegan fucktard.

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