Talk about a misconception ;)

by Joe (no login)

 
Nuccs, it is clear you do not understand the Calvinist position, or else you would not say such things. Please, let me help you understand this.

First I must ask, I'm not sure I understand how your post relates to my previous post. I asked you for Bible verses that speak of a universal enablement by God, but you responded by talking about rape. I'm confused, perhaps you meant to reply to another post?

"From a Moderate perspective, I don't accept God raping anybody of their free will choice to accept OR reject His provision offered for salvation. "

You see Nucc, Calvinist don't believe that God "rapes anyone of their free will". Rape suggests that something is forced on you that you do not want. Calvinist do not believe that. What we believe is that anyone who comes to Christ does so because they want to come to Christ. They do not come to Christ kicking and screaming.

Consider this passage, 2 Chron 30:1-12. The first 9 verses speak of Hezekiah sending out a gospel call to men to repent and return to the Lord. In verse 10, we learn that some men did not obey the command but responded negatively. In verse 11, however, we learn that some men humbled themselves and responded positively. They obeyed the command.

The kicker is verse 12. verse 12 clues us in and explains WHY the men from verse 11 and 12 responded positively. It says "The Lord's hand was on their them to give them a heart to obey.."

So you see Nucc, when anyone responds to God's invitations, it is because God is working behind the scenes to change our hearts which results in us being willing to respond to Him. So we do not respond by force, or against our wills, but instead, we respond because we want to respond, because God has changed our heart. If God had not done this, nobody at all would respond, because the heart is naturally stony and opposed to God. But God comes in and softens the heart and gives men a heart to respond.

So you see, two things are true:

1) It is God who ultimately determines who responds positively, proven by verse 12
2) Yet when men respond positively, it is because they desire to respond positively, because their heart wants to, since they have a new heart.

This is the Calvinist position.

The Arminian and Moderate Calvinist position affirm that men respond because they are willing to respond, but they deny that it is because God changed their heart and gave them the desire to respond. "He gave them a heart to do what was commanded" 2 Chro 30:12

So as you can see, Calvinists believe that anyone who is WILLING can and will be saved. The question is, what makes them willing?

The Calvinist answer is: God's grace.



Posted on Jul 24, 2009, 12:42 PM

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